It’s one of my biggest pet peeves when people insist that I am oppressed because I’m religious. Like, for example, how I dress. You’re more than welcome to dress however you want, but I should be allowed to dress however I want. THAT is real freedom of expression-allowing all women to dress the way they WANT to dress, whether it be modestly or showing more skin. The hijab ban in France is a perfect example of accidentally oppressing women in an attempt to “free them” from some perceived oppression. Forcing any form of dress on women is just not okay. And those of us who choose to cover up do exactly that-CHOOSE to do so. So don’t force us to uncover in an attempt to “free us” from oppression that just doesn’t exist FOR US. Oppression is based on how the person feels-in some extreme religious communities, some women do feel oppressed while others don’t. Those who do feel oppressed should be allowed to live how they want without judgment, and so should those who don’t feel oppressed.
The hijab ban in France came about due to security concerns. France has been targeted by terrorists (and it may be fair to argue that there has been anti-Muslim backlash because of it). You may be aware that here in the U.S., it isn’t permissible for government photo I.D. to be issued while the face is partly obscured - which policy is founded in the same logic.
I agree entirely! If a woman can legally walk down a street literally half naked - then a woman can walk down that same street covered from head to toe. A lot of oppressed women are the ones who feel forced to wear clothes that have less fabric than a head scarf in order to conform to fashion fads and trends.
This clip has less impact on me out of context. In the film this clip was juxtaposed by the story of a woman who was kicked out of the community as a teenager for having a boyfriend. Her mother locked her out of their home and told her to go live with her boyfriend. It's clear that women are oppressed within the community, but much like secular society, the systemic oppression of women is perpetuated by men and women alike.
So parents kicking their kids out for sleeping around is now the same thing as abusing women? Wow the standards have lowered, go talk to my mother you will learn abuse. The criticism you're describing is instead intolerance. Its very common in some communities. But i understand where they are coming from they are trying to keep everyone following a strict lifestyle. I don't personally suggest this but, i also don't understand what its like. Maybe an alternative is to keep distance but still communicate and help. Abuse is a serious problem, not limited to chassidic Jews (my mother didn't grow up chassidic but was). Please don't throw it around.
@@user-zv9um9pb6w If a parent locks their 17-year-old child out of their house and refuses to let them in, it is legally considered child abandonment. Intolerance is just the motive for such illegal behavior. Abuse comes in many forms, not only physical.
@@courtneyraefl again i didn't say its right. What i said was its not a case of the community abusing a woman. And i have seen many nonreligious and nonjewish families do the exact same once they feel they can't control someone who's life is spiraling out of control. So i support the notion of doing whatever you can to help your kids, but it has 0 to do with Haradi families.
@@ar-gf5bw That was exactly the point of my comment. Chaya was speaking of her experience as if all women in the community are given the same opportunities as she, when the story told right before hers differed. It’s important to hear both stories.
The documentary that this clip comes from is very interesting and and worth watching. The woman in this clip clearly and thoughtfully articulates how she feels as a Hasidic women who lives her life not being oppressed but instead free to express her feelings related to the future needs to expand the Hasidic community that she lives in. Her faith clearly gives her passion and strength which comes thru in the "City of Joel." Thank you for showing this clip and for bringing attention to this documentary " City of Joel" .
I saw another recent video that referred to the community having about half of the families living below the poverty line. It would be interesting to hear more from these families. Are they struggling? Are they worried about their children’s futures? Is this starting to feel oppressive to some of them? With double digit family size I think it may only get worse over time. Are the leaders finding ways to really address this or is their only recourse government subsidies?
The boys don't have English lessons, they have full time Education about the Torrah and Judaism only. Hence they can barely speak English which limits their work potential . They either work within the Culture , which is obviously limited due to lack of jobs, or don't work at all. They have large families to ' protect' the lineage. They rely on Benefits
The poverty is completely voluntary, in that most men study Torah rather than working and the women are raising the large number of children they and their husbands choose to have. While decrying the government who want to “meddle” by mandating educational standards, the leaders are happy to have the government (ie taxpayers) provide welfare benefits which support the families and sustain the community.
@@dsquared1950 I guess I am most worried about housing and other living costs exceeding whatever support they receive. Seems to me that while the community may be able to manage this as a whole now...eg multiple families living in one housing unit....I think this may become a crisis very soon given the exponential growth of population.
@@dkillion7485 True, its going to be problematic. Let's face it , it already is!. If they cannot afford to support their own, deliberately planned, huge numbers of children fully from their own pockets, they shouldn't be encouraged to have them, ie. Payment for the first 2 or 3 children only, ever.
It's really good - a lot of very good voices from the community, and I felt like they were really fair. I think most people aren't so interested in housing politics, so the doc didn't get a lot of attention.
It's so well made, though... bc it's shows another more than just 2 different communities and housing... it shows social and culture changes.... the law in structuring those changes... etc... I'm so happy you shared this. Thank you.
Wonderful video! Thank you! This woman is great! I was born in Cuba. “Certain people” consider that because I’m Hispanic I need their help and protection, and they claim (or hope?) that I am discriminated against. I find that obnoxious. How dare they see me as a victim? If I am a victim of anything, it is that I am a victim of those who think I am suffering discrimination. Obviously, people like that have nothing constructive to do in their lives. They should go take care of their grandma, or go clean their toilet, or get a job.
Thanks, my question is; would you kindly define what opression and freedom are? ~you being the interviewee, for Ms. Vizel's views on it are quite clear~ The other day I heared R' Breitovich defining it as 'Freedom from Animalistic Tendencies'. Is that the Freedom you are reffering to, or is it something else? Also how does someone aquire said Freedom?
this is just a clip. The documentary was made very well and the narrative is non-bias. The viewer sees what both communities wants. Freedom to live the lifestyle that allows them to be happy. She's happy with her culture and religion framing her choice to live as she pleases, she is one voice. The documentary shows lots of perspectives in freedom and happiness. Ultimately, the final outcome was done according to community support, resources, and using the law -fairly to obtain certain freedoms.
@ariebrons7976 yes, people do leave the Hasidic communities. Some with love and support and others not so much. Depends on the family, person and community. Just like Amish or Mormons, or if your Mexican or Korean.... some of us leave and try new ways of living. Some people go to new countries, the military or universities This channel is to give us some insight on this community. I think the creator of this channel left her community and became more modern. She has a Q&A video. More understanding leads to less judgement
@@mindyourownbusinessplease1120 Yes thank you, I realise that. Seeing my mum has gone through the same. Rather I wish to ask, if there are any negative consequences for not fitting in;
Seeking the good through truth and reason is the ultimate in natural law...I cannot fathom anyone presuming to speak for another in these regards (when it is sought sincerely and honestly). How can anyone say that this woman needs protection from this lifestyle? Liberation from it? Our own freedom only extends as far as we allow others theirs. Adding this to my 'must watch' list!
Truth?? Here it is....Hasidic women have their hair shaved the day after their Wedding. They know this and expect it. That doesn't mean they want it or like it. They are usually in their late teens so already grappling with a marriage to a man they barely know, if at all, and are not yet mature enough to know their own feelings or beliefs. They are FORCED to keep the head bald. The Synagogue leaders send female inspectors to check if their is a query re hair regrowth under the wigs or covering. WOmen who regrow their hair are repressed by having children denied Education. They may lose custody of their children They are told that, by not being obedient and having a shaved head, their families may get Cancer, any illness or death is a judgement from God for their disobedience. Any Hasidic or other Sect of Judaism which denies this is lying. Fact.
Women in Chasidic communities have more English-medium education than men do. Women are also expected to work and men are expected to study, so women often communicate with the "outside world" more than the men do. When you speak more English, you become more proficient in it.
when they make it personal i get it but if you cant admit that there are extremist sects and that people in meed especially in those situations camt always ask for help then i question your judgment altogether
Would you have the courage to walk into a Beit Midrash and give a Torah opinion? Do the Rabbi confer with you on Torah opinions? I bet you don't know what I'm about to show you in the Hebrew response to this message.
I respect what this women is saying, 100 % However, in my opinion I feel like the Hasidic doctrine & practice isn’t fair to the Hasidic women , I’m not Jewish I’m not against Jews or any other religion or race of ppl I’m just saying The treatment of The Hasidic women seems unfair and a disturbing!!! In my opinion!
I have great respect for the rights of the Jewish people to bring awareness at the federally funded US Holocaust Museum in DC about the genocide of 7 million Jews during WW2. Please ask the museum to have an exhibit of Remembrance 2025, Armenian Holocaust,110 Years at the museum to honor the 1.5 million Armenians out of a population of 2 million who were lost in 1915Help the Armenians speak their mind about this tragedy.
good for her. As much as these so called "enlightened" feminist may wish to believe it many in these communities have a full and joyful life. Growing up in NYC with quite a large number of people from other cultures I can say that their children were expected to conform to the mores and folkways of the culture they came from. I know a very successful surgeon in NYC at top hospital whose parents tortured him to marry into their ethnicity and faith. I don't know why Orthodox and Hasidic people are singled out in this manner.
Yeah, I often feel like universal human folly gets seen under a microscope in some communities and ignored in others. I like to think that no society has it all figured out.
Re: First-generation Americans being pressured to conform to the morés and folkways of the culture their parents came from: I agree, and have witnessed this myself. I sometimes think that what the parents really want is bragging rights within their wider family (which I’ve also witnessed) - or perhaps they fear being judged negatively for raising a wayward child. Then again, maybe they worry - should the child stray too far from the culture - about being excluded from the child’s life. From what I’ve seen, the children generally aren’t comfortable with these expectations, as they have been assimilating into mainstream culture and have developed their own, independent values. Re: Why Orthodox and Hassidic communities seem to be singled out: I believe that’s a result of how insular the community is, together with the issues associated with frum children being under-educated. You mentioned the successful NYC surgeon you know, who I gather was educated here in the states ...which leads to an observation: Many ethnic communities are very focused on education and achievement - whereas Hassidic and Amish communities promote different values. Therin lies the difference. And like Hassidic communities, the Amish too have also come under scrutiny for their failure to make English their primary language and sufficiently educate their children. One reason they’ve been spared the harshest criticism is because they attract tourism to the regions they inhabit - which can’t really be said of Orthodox and Hassidic communities. There’s another important distinction, though: the Amish eschew ALL government assistance - even Social Security payments. This may be at the bottom of much of the criticism: when a community isn’t self-supporting, others believe they have a vested interest in questioning their customs.
@@FriedaVizelBrooklyn when I was young growing up multi cult among people from many different cultures first becoming aware of the differences in their worldviews I was taken aback. and voluble in my reactions. In perspective as I am uncertain i mentioned earlier we are talking c. 1635 here on both sides of the family. Oddly my conservative parents were much more tolerant than I. The father of a Jewish girl dating my spectacularly good looking brother rang our doorbell and asked my dad to forbid the relationship . He was quite respectful and my father did as he asked. Now after a lifetime of living in NYC many jewish boyfriends and husband I have come to a point of zen in realizing very few people think the way I do most are clannish, tribalist, regionalist and they are entitled to be. I do not consider opposition to marrying out across racial, ethnic or religious groupings necessarily racist either. People in the chaos of life require a sense of belonging and whittling down the evolved cultural differences is not necessarily a good. I cannot tell you of the "riveting" conversations about the "superiority" of the Litvaks over the Galitzyaners or vice versa; the heartfelt discussion of the unacceptability of Jews such as Falashas or ethnic Chinese. This is not to be outdone by the ravings of many non jewish friends from places such as Greece and Italy where their ethnic conferers from different regions were described as inferiors with an attitude this was understood. The great russian mystic and spiritual master GI Gurdjieff told my first husband in '48 that people assume the greatest differences between people were the physical but the truth was in the interior mental and spiritual views. Odd how the statement of what should be obvious seems genius. I don't think there is a need for any change about this in the general sense as an individual faced with the unwillingness of one's family to accept what they perceive as rejection of all that is "holy" to them I can only wish for genuine reconciliation instead of ostracism, shunning and total severance from family and old community. I like your work and am impressed with the depth they reach. Thank you.
@@FriedaVizelBrooklyn I also think that that lady in the beginning who got that package with the gummy things, I think she was full of crap. Because she wasn't allowed to speak at the town hall because she said, "You can abuse your own families but you can't abuse us" at the town hall. Then she was confronted on this and wanted to play dumb. I see right through this type of stuff. I don't think it was right that she got that package but she made it seem like she was an angel and never did anything to create a feeling of vitriol amongst the Jewish population of KJ.
Well, some non Jews have.. muslims as well as many Christians. I grew up in a religious community where families were often large. The reasoning was to receive every gift God would give. That worked well for some families, but there was abuse and neglect, too.. overwhelmed parents, absent and avoidant fathers etc..
That's so f****** dishonest honest the way she puts it of course some people We'll say that but the idea that a lot of people in communities can't fight for themselves because they are so afraid and we should fight for their rights is absolutely important
I find this woman's comments thought provoking but obviously she hardly speaks for every woman's experience. I'm interested though what you think outsiders should do for Hasidic women?
You know full well that the women are treated beautifully. And there’s no reason to reach out. If someone chose to leave they may. What I don’t appreciate is freida leaving and then staying around and making a full career out of her past. I have a classmate who left and married a non Jewish, had a baby and opened a shop with him. She doesn’t speak on anything. I think respect for all cultures is something that we all need to possess. That doesn’t mean that all cultures need to mix and become your best friends. The fact is we have many kids because they are holy souls from heaven who are waiting for a chance at life and to practice the holy Torah. Non Jewish neighbors do not look at it this way and having many kids is challenging. It means less left for the parents. Less money . Less means. More responsibility. They also are less sure in their marital relationships and therefore the risk in having many kids are triple fold. The world is really messed up and Frieda I’m sorry but you will not be able to succeed in taking the good parts and influencing that onto the non Jewish world because the fundamental goals are very different in life. If you miss this you need to return. No one is suppressed… the secular world will not be able to emulate the Jewish family life because that works well within the laws.
@@FriedaVizelBrooklyn it's a very tough philosophical Moral dilemma But let me ask you this she would agree that if a parent teaches because religious beliefs that their kids to go suicidal you should take away the kids even though it's their religious belief ( I would assume) the question is at what point is it's so clear that you're taking away rights from their kid Not only this but there's this a colt called לב טהור And they abuse their women even hacetic women agree That need to be stopped In some way shape or form, so why is that just because they are little more than you? I think People should always be respectful to the others personal belief but we certainly need to intervene with the nicest way possible to try to give them at least A real real education in a real way out if they wanna That's what's called rights parents should not be able to take away their rights from their kids and needed shut relegend or community
@@Star-qh5wp Just yesterday I spoke to a friend and he told me his wife Told him that she wants to be able to go out at night I'd just like the mando to socialize what their friends So they should do 3 nights and 3 nights you know what the man told me that he told his wif that's the way welief and the rabbis understood better and that's the way they a made things to be. And that's only a smal Small tiny example you know it and I know it the way you don't even consider certain things for women and men as well it's so crazy
I like her comments. When naked women walk around the street, they are oppressed, even they don,t know it themselves. Because they are slaved to the modern so called fashion. Is it proper to walk around with a few inches of clothes and saying they are modern or educated. Give me a break. This woman knows her value. She knows no one can mess up with her on the street. And the ways he talks and walks around the town, tell everybody that what a real woman looks like not an object of sex to greedy men and young woman.
