We know what a brush gun is, but do you actually need one. Someone recently asked that question and I thought it was such a great question that it needed it's own video. So today we talk about brush guns.
Back when I was a kid we use to practice at 50 yards or so on the old .22 boxes [ they didnt have bricks and such back then] if you could keep it rolling you were good. Today, sadly, those days are gone forever. On a brush gun I would have to have a 1 to 4 pwr scope or most anything as long as it went down to 1 pwr. Shooting something at least 200 grain. I always thought in heavy brush it was better to throw a brick instead of a pebble. Good video and I was glad to hear about the gun show...its good things are headed back to normal...Liked the video have a good week...God Bless
Another awesome topic! Thanks for sharing your time with us. I take my 30-30 into the woods to hunt swamps or food plots less than 100 yds. In the swamps, I am using a Marlin 336 with 170 grain corelokts with a Weaver K1.5 fixed power. In the food plots, I am toting a Marlin 336 using Hornady FTX with a Weaver Classic 2.5-7x32. Both are light weight rifles that can get the job done. On day I’ll find a light weight, low power res dot scope I like. That will go to the swamps with me.
Hey Tom, yet another great video, got a couple of relevant maxims for you, no doubt you’ve heard them before though! Firstly, as a gun enthusiast “the number of guns you want is N+1, where N is the number of guns you currently have.” Secondly, “beware of the man with only one gun as he most probably knows how to use it!” Have a good day and thanks for the content. 👍🏻
I hunt with a 1903 a3 and 2 lever action rifles. The 30/30 is also an Icon. Tom makes a excellent points. We should always consider the terrain and hunting conditions.
Those are the FACTS..... Know what you are shooting at....I never take the Safety off until I SEE THE DEER... Tom I had a 8mm German Mauser. It was a great brush and close up rifle. I used the old iron sights and the gun work great for the purpose I was using it for. Thanks Again For the Facts .. Great Video. God Bless.enjoy Yr Sunday
A little late to this party but here's my two cents. Another advantage of a brush gun is the length carry ability. It's less likely to get hung up when going thru the brush. Around where I live in Western PA they have done a lot of clear cutting over the last 50 years so there is a lot of thick under brush and no long shots. Most shots on deer are rarely over 150 yards. If your on a deer drive and your one of the drivers you will really appreciate the shortness of a brush gun.
I got a 115 year old Savage 1899 in 30 WCF out of my Uncle's estate. It had been a saddle gun for most of it's life. The cowboy who carried it didn't like the Schnabel forend catching his scabbard ,so he took out his pocket knife and whittled it off. The Marbles peep sight on that thing is money at 30-30 range. It's funny that we consider it a " specialized " rifle. I'm sure to him it was just his rifle. Probably the only one he had and I bet he got by on the prairie and in the hills just fine. Probably the best balance between a short range and extended range rifle I've found is the one I found under the Christmas tree in 1976. A Remington 600 Mohawk in .243 Win. with a 1.5-4 Leupold. Good field of vision, range out to 275 with no hold over.We find that most guys who come out to hunt have way too much scope. Can't blame them. It's the first thing they try to sell me at the gun shops. I'm fine with open sights, so any modest optic has much more value to me than a huge telescope. One guy came out with his telescope on a bipod rig. He looked at my 600 and said, " what are you going to do with that? " I said, " probably finish that deer you're going to gut shoot.
I have several brush guns. I like a large bullet for a brush gun. I have 3 lever rifles that are excellent for thick cover situations... .35rem, .44rem mag, .45-70 gov.
Great video! Thanks for sharing your stories 😊 What's nice about nowadays is we tend to have choice's... we own more rifles then we need unless you think about all the different areas weather and what not... It sure is nice to have a choice 🙂 I have my dedicated brush rifle... It's a 350 legend with a 1x4 scope. If I'm still hunting I'd be inclined to carry my Winchester 94 with peep sights. Then if I know I'll be out of the woods with a few longer shots I'd take my Tikka 7mm-08. Yet I still have several more... not that I need them... It's cause I wanted them ❤️
Ruger American 30-06 with a Burris 3-9x Fullfield II Ballistic Plex. Near as can be to cover any possible whitetail deer hunting circumstance. However, gun people are never satisfied with just one gun and will invent hunting scenarios to justify adding the newest gun to the collection. I bought a Savage 340 (1950 year of manufacture with the original Dockendorff iron sights) in 30-30 last year and have been trying to think where in the Arizona deserts I can make it work!
I've had several hunts ruined by having a scope. The sun is not your friend when you have to look through your scope and the sun is in the area that you need to look/shoot. However, that doesn't mean that I don't use one. But, I also LOVE my lever guns with or without scopes.
Boy, I gotta say this is where picking your hunting location really matters. I recently started hunting in Northern Michigan, and I found a really nice spot off several traversing deer trails. It's a good mix of natural cover on both sides of my blind with 2 wide shooting lanes, with some tall grass, and interspersed brush. I could definitely use a "brush gun" potentially for some shots, but fortunately most shots present themselves in the open. What I have taken to doing in the last several years while hunting is carrying a side arm. Part of the reason I stared doing that was for protection against predators, and the other was the more common instance of a deer sneaking up on me inside of 20 yards. I find that, for me, it's easier to raise a handgun than to shoulder a rifle (with or without iron sights) in a stealthy manner so as to not spook Bambi. In that location I've been recently hunting that works the best. However, about a quarter mile from that spot I found another spot in deep brush surrounded by swamp on 2 sides that I am finding evidence of some very big bucks. I would love to set up out in there with my back to a tree if had a big bore carbine with iron sights. Maybe I'll get a trail cam out there this year, and think of a plan for next year. Guess I need to do some gun shopping too... Oh darn.
Might as well get one in a pistol cartridge to match your side arm? Say a .357 or .44mag lever action? LOL It doesn't take much for us to talk ourselves into a new gun but I do believe a brush gun has it's place and can potentially help put one in the freezer and on the wall?
For the heavy stuff, I love my lever guns with peep sights. Mine are Skinner, but there are several, all equally good. If I’m going where there is brush and the possibility of a field shot , I carry something with a low power scope most of the time. Like my 30-30 with a 1-3.5x. If it’s mostly open, the 243 or 06 with the 3-9x gets the nod. I actually prefer carrying the lever guns. From 357-44-45/70 , it’s always easy to carry them and I enjoy hunting with them more for some reason. They take the most deer, but only because they get used the most, plus, we have a lot of hogs where I live. A fast handling gun is paramount in the brush when the tuskers are about.
True story- I didn’t get a shot at a very big deer with my BLR. I had gloves on and the scope was low. Since then, I have put a side hammer extension on my lever guns since then.
Good video. I have a nice old model 94 Winchester if I really need it but it is more of a truck gun to me. My brush gun, if you want to call it that, is known to me as my pole gun. I own and hunt in a lot of lodge pole pine forest. I not only hunt deer there but also elk, and because of that I use a 7 mm mauser with a 22" barrel and an old Weaver 2.5 power scope with the post and crosshair reticle. I like the scope because of a wide field of vision, aging eyesight, and the ability to look into close brush and determine number of points and so on. The rifle will also make longer shots when needed or necessary. This rifle was build by my father when he was going to gunsmithing school years ago in Trinidad, Colorado under Bill Prater. It has probably the ugliest stock many have ever seen, a blond color with a 93 mauser action and a hand made barrel from the school. It works very well.
It is interesting that many in the wooded areas of the country, the hunters have had to ask the opposite question. Do I need a nice 270 with a scope? The gun writers were telling them yes in case they go out west for an elk hunt. Many eastern hunters a couple of generations ago did a lot of subsistence hunting. They could get more than one deer a year and that was a big part of their diet. The bigger the family the more deer they shot. Back then hunters had a sense of pride in their trusty carbines but not to the point of worshipping them. To them, that is my gun was the extent of it and they were proud to own it. For the most part it was a tool and they didn't care if the gunrack in the back window of the pickup truck was wearing a shiny spot on the barrel or grooves in the buttstock wrist. Open sights were the norm. Light carbines of varying calibers that were easy to carry all day if necessary were popular and not a lot of people dissected the firearm type to eke out some perceived advantage. Most did not even think about the concept of brush guns because that was what most everyone bought and they didn't know any other field conditions. They got their guns, conserved ammo and harvested their deer. They were thinking about beer and backstraps while hunters today are daydreaming of ballistic table data, phone apps, and group size. I don't have a problem with the direction hunting and guns is going now and it will always change, but it doesn't hurt to look back on a different time before laying down a bunch of money for something someone else says you "need".
I've always felt that you need one rifle per species per habitat type. So maybe 2 or 3 for deer and elk but only 1 for Pronghorn. Lol 😆 I think my dream "brush gun" would be that old, old Remington semi-auto chambered in .35 Remington. (Model 8?). Style plus panache =class. Thanks, Tom!
I keep a 12 ga shotgun loaded with 00 or 000 buckshot because it's legal in florida to deer hunt with buckshot always a primary firearm for hunting due to thick woods with maybe 35 or 45 yard shots
Hunting accidents, that is another topic in itself. I have zero tolerance with hunting accidents but most of the time, it seems like charges are never filed. Years ago, a guy in my hometown was shot by his "best friend" after being confused as a squirrel. 😶 Not long after the guys funeral, his "best friend" married his widowed wife.
I have a 2.5 X10 Vortex Viper on my .270, but I snatched up a 1950 Winchester 94 in .32 Win Spec. and glad I did. It was not cheap, but it's beautiful and will make a great brush gun. Still working up loads for it.
CBSBASS, I have a 1958 model 94 in 30-30 but I have always wanted one in 32 WIn Spec. That is one awesome cartridge and you are absolutely right it will a great brush gun.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Found a pretty good supply of 170 gr, Hornady FP for it. I'll tell you. The rifle has the metal buttplate, and some of the Core Lokt Remingtons bruised me pretty good. Just glad I found the ammo and can re-load it. :)
Hello Mr. River and thanks for another nice video. Even though I’m not a hunter but target shooter I still love hearing of the stories. I have absolutely nothing against hunting when done ethically. Deer meat is delicious and very healthy. Thank you for being ethically minded when you hunt making sure when you pull that trigger you know exactly what your aiming at, and your chances of a wounded dear running off are unlikely. Everything you said on the topic sounds like good logical advice to me. Thank you for sharing your hunting stories, and letting us know things are getting better out there in the retail market as far as supplies go. I’m very excited to get into hand-loading if the supplies such as LR primers ever come back around. Anyways thank you, enjoy your hobbies and God bless. 😎👍
Hi Mike. Have you tried hunting? I remember being a kid and loving the stories the old timers would tell when they visited my elders. Those stories eventually grew into curiosity and then my neighbor taking me hunting for the first time at 12 years old. My dad and uncles didn't hunt. From there I was hooked on something that I was completely unfamiliar with. I had no idea the love of the outdoors I was in for. If you haven't tried it, maybe you could just tag along with someone once to see what you think. Taking an animal ethically can be a very sobering and powerful experience. I think we need more people like you in the ranks of hunters who think ethically and I know I feel safer with ethically minded people in the woods. Have a great day sir!
@@brob-zy8zi Hello and thanks for your response. I have never deer hunted myself, although I have several friends that do locally. I’m in my mid 50’s and in my lifetime have only shot at squirrels, rabbits and woodchucks. I primarily enjoy the precision aspect of target shooting and this is what I will be doing once I can get back out. Thanks for your kind words sir, if someone asked me to go deer hunting with them I most likely would. And yes it would be very heartfelt to take such a beautiful creations life. I do realize thinning the population through hunting actually helps the existing other deer to then thrive by now having enough food for all. I have watched my trapper friend skin off animal pelts and dry them for money when we were younger. For if I was to ever go deer hunting, I would need my experienced friend to take me out and then show me the way to harvest the meat. It certainly is very healthy and tasty. Ted Nugget comes to mind for some reason as I say this, lol. God bless and have a wonderful week and upcoming Christmas ✌️😎👍
Firearms are a wonderful thing. I like all of them but a scoped bolt action is my favorite. My Marlin 44mag trapper is a sweetheart. I own more guns that I need. A meat hunter really only needs a few. A shotgun , pistol , a 22 , and a center fire bolt gun.
The model 94 Winchester is a true classic. Think back to over 100 years ago. Back then It was state of the art technology. Fired the first smokeless powder cartridge. It was head and shoulders above the 44-40, 38-40, 32 40 in terms of ballistics. Hunt with one today with old eyes your sevearly limited to not much over 50 yards. Newer firearms, calibers and scopes has made a many model 94 a safe queen.
My experience with hunting woods is I like 20” or less barrel. I’ve had long barrel get caught on limbs when stalking. I’ve lost shots at deer when long barrel clanging on tree stand or shooting house. The velocity lost is well worth the trade off. I also like 2x7 power scopes. Most have a wide clear field of view on 2 x and you can get on track quickly. At 7 x you can still shoot a long ways as well. My hunting buddy uses a 12 gauge 870 slug gun in brush with 2x7 scope. It does very well.
I've always been a fan of longer barrels but the older I get the more I've come to appreciate shorter barrels and lighter rifles with lower recoiling cartridges especially in the woods and brush, which is where I do the majority of my hunting these days.
While hunting in Baghdad, I carried two guns. A M2 50cal for long range and an M4 5.56 for quick short range shots. Maybe that could apply to this situation. The 50 cal would be a little much for meat harvest but you could adjust calibers to individual needs. Lol
thining of getting a spanish mauser carbine in 7*57 with iron sites for my brushgun. Its a big caliber and a short light rifle. Hits 100 bullseye with ironsites. But the bullets might be a little bit harder to get for me so i might have to go with a 30.06 or 308 again.
My brush guns over the years have been everything between 223 rem and 4570. The most effective was a .243 win with a 2.5 x7 scope. I loaded my ammo with 95 gr nosler partition and 105 gr speer round nose bullets T about 2700 fps. That gun was deadly at close to mid range requiring 1 shot per deer for many years. I was on a high bluff one day at 1 o'clock p.m. (the moon straight up) and missed 2 easy shots with a 45 70 at about 60 yds. The deer was confused because he couldn't pla e where the noise was coming from. I picked up a 223 laying next to me and placed 1 shot through both lungs I still love the 45 70 but to me the most important thing on a good brush gun is a good clear low powered 1 to 4 or so scope .
Interesting video Tom. What range is brush anyway? If I have shots farther than 30 yards is it still brush? Just throwing that out. I don't think so, but it is an open question. I've had two definite confirmed twig shots that were both at deer 30 yards away. The first was at a doe using a model 94 in 32 Winchester Special. The bullet hit a tiny twig that was below my line of sight about 6" from the muzzle, and the bullet deflected enough to completely miss the deer. The second was a shot from an 8x57 with a 170 gr. Hornady RN. The bullet hit a sapling tip about 1/4" or so in diameter about 5 yards from the deer. The bullet deflected enough to turn a good shot into one that spined and dropped the deer, but he was still alive. I needed a second shot for him once I got to him. The notion that iron sights are faster than scopes doesn't fit with my experience. I set up a drill where I would fire five pair of shots at an 8-1/2" x 11" white sheet of paper at 50 yards using a shot timer using many different rifles. When looking only at the times I scored ten hits for the ten shots the times were lower with the scoped bolt action rifles than the metallic sighted lever actions. The lever action metallic sighted rifles felt fast, but the timer proved otherwise. Maybe 50 yards is too far to be brush range. I don't know. In the above test the top scoring rifles were a Winchester model 70 in .30-'06 with a 3-9x40 scope likely set on 6X, a Remington 700 in 8x57 with a 6x43 scope, and a Ruger 77 in 7x57 with a 6x42 scope. The average time ranged from 3.0 to 3.5 seconds for two shots. There was a wider range of metallic sighted rifles: In .30-30 a Winchester model 1894 with a 24" barrel, a Winchester model 94AE with a 24" barrel, and a model 94 from the 40's with a 20" barrel. There was also a model 94 from 1949 with a 20" barrel, and a modified P14 in 303 British. Some had typical open sights, and some had receiver sights. These rifles average ranged from 3.6 to 4.1 seconds for two hits. This shooter couldn't line up as fast with metallic v. scopes at 50 yards. YMMV, but test it with a timer. I love your stuff Tom, just trying to give food for thought.
I hunt the north woods of MN. I have 3-9x40mm scopes on both of my deer rifles. My scopes never leave 3x. I honestly wish they were lower power. I plan on replacing both scopes with 1-4x or 1-6x scopes in the future.
The bottom line is you can get a general purpose deer gun and get by 99% of the time . Something like a 308 or 30/06 bolt gun with a 3x9 scope. But who does need another rifle? You can never have too many.
Nice video. If a man spends enough time hunting, many strange things will happen. LOL And some of it is almost unbelievable. Deer are amazing creatures, and very durable, sometimes defying logic, in being able to get up and run off.
I don’t know that anyone has ever done it for deer hunting, but in tactical settings, it’s becoming increasingly popular to mount tactical rifles with low power variable optics in conjunction with an offset red dot reflex sight mounted on a 45 degree offset mount. The scope works for range and for closer engagements, you simply can’t the rifle on an angle and acquire the red dot optic. I’ve never seen it on a bolt gun, but I’m sure it’s possible. Could be worth doing a video about. You can acquire a vortex viper for about $199 and a scope ring offset mount for around $50.
It's sort of ironic but when I looked for a scope for the FN I wanted a 1x6 but all of the 1x6 scopes now are for tactical use. Not that it really matters but still I thought it was ironic that hunters have all but forgotten the advantages of a low power scope while the tactical guys have really taken to them. And now Vortex has a 1x8 and with that sort of magnification range I could see the 1 power scope handling all of your optic needs in one package so I don't know how much longer you'll see the red dots on the side? For the FN, I ended up with a vintage 1.75x5 Redfield. I think it's going to work great?
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving I run a Vortex 1-8. I run the offset red dot because you can leave the optic at 6x or 8x, put the dot on target and then roll the rifle onto target without having to search around for your target. Many options exist here. The red dot also gives you the advantage of a wide open sight picture for situational awareness and peripheral vision. I’d imagine it would be more useful for hunting dangerous game but having a greater field of vision is always an advantage in my opinion. Just gotta go with what works for you!
It would be nice to know that if you hit a 1-inch thick tree that the bullet will not be deflected much and will hit the target deer behind it a few yards further. I would not hope for more than this. Having seen how tracer bullets ricochet in amazing crazy ways, you can't hope for much more than this.
It depends on where you are hunting, the longest shot you could safely take, and what obstacles lie in between. And I agree, there's no perfect hunting situation or scenario. You have to try to make the best choice of equipment for the situation, and hope for the best.
I ran into this kind of situation a few years ago. I was planning to go up high into the lodge pole pine to hunt elk. I took a rifle I liked for the dense timber, a .444 Marlin with a 4 power scope. When I got to my hunting location there was a lot of snow I didn't want to trudge around in so I went to a lower pasture where the shots would be longer. Once there I found my elk and made a shot from 266 yards away with that .444 Marlin with a hand loaded 240 bonded pistol shaped bullet. The elk dropped and never took another step. So no matter what I thought I was going to do things don't always work out as you plan. Had I known I would take that long a shot I would not normally have taken that rifle.
A Marlin 336 might be the greatest close quarter gun b/c of a scope mount. The 30-30 and 35 might do better shooting through brush and small limbs than say a 243 but the quick follow up shoots are more important. If I could get a .308 in a lever gun, all of my worldly problems would be solved.😁😁👍
I have a question. Have you ever shot a deer with a load you developed yourself and been absolutely impressed with your bullet selection? Noticed a difference between your load and a factory load?
Do you NEED a brush gun? Where do you hunt? I hunt in woods and have done just fine with .270 and .300 Blackout. I wait for a clear shot to the vitals. A couple of times, that has meant passing on a shot, but that doesn't bother me at all. If it bothered me, I might use a .500 S&W Mag in a rifle or revolver firing a heavy, WFN cast bullet.
Good ethical hunting. I’m in southwest Michigan where we are restricted to straight wall cartridges. Just bought a Henry single shot in .44 w a leupold 1.5x5x22 scope for those close in to maximum distance shots for that round.
I hunt in ontario and I hunt deer with savage 99 in 300 savage with an williams peep sight and a marlin 94 in 357 magnum and honestly up here there are few opportunities to need a scope yet when I go for moose farther north there are certainly times where a scope would be preferred even though most of the time shots are within 100 yards, but I definitely think that scope are way less necessary then folks think
And I think you are exactly right about scopes being less necessary than folks think! I also think that Savage M99 in 300 Savage is one mighty fine rifle. There aren't many rifles left that I really have desire to own but that's one of the few I would really like to have one day. I would be proud to own that Marlin in 357 also. Two fine deer rifles there.
I have wondered about the red dot scopes for those close encounters. Have you ever used these? We have a pig problem and I have thought about a semi auto with one of these on it. After the first shot those rascals can move.
Depends on where you hunt. If you're more or less always hunting brush and if you've got good eyes you could not do any better than a lever action in 30 30. 32 special, or 35 Remington with open sights. Unless you live out west or in open country you don't need much else. With a 30 30 rifle, If you hold that bead behind a deers shoulder at 100 yards when you pull the trigger that bullet is going to be behind the deers shoulder at 100 yards. Yes, a bolt action firing a better round is going to be better at longer distances. I have bolt rifles in everything from 243 to 6.5 Creedmoor. But there is nothing that points faster, fits your hand better, or gives a faster second shot than the old winchester lever. I've consistently killed eastern whitetail every season for the past 40 years and in my area I wouldn't think of picking up anything else. No sling either, a guns no good if it's not in your hand and pointed in the right direction.
Tom!!! I'm still laughing. I think even at 14 or so I didn't go hunting with only one bullet!🤣😂 I might have only HAD one but I always got another one or two from dad or my uncle or my cousin. Back in those days in Mississippi and hunting in big soybean fields everyone pretty much had a 270 or 30-06 so you could "bum" one from somebody.
Tom...Are you from Kentucky??? You sound like it!!!:) Love You stuff...and your taste in decent straight quality hunting rifles! My favorite of all time is a good OLDER 99 in the woods!
Thanks David, and I'm from S.C. And it sounds to me like you fine taste in hunting rifles yourself if your favorite is a model 99! I guess I'm in my bolt action phase right now, LOL. But I have been keeping my out for a really nice early m99 in 300 Savage for a while. Fine rifles and definitely ahead of their time.
Man I hunt in Kentucky in brush so heavy you have to shoot though it a light 130 grain bullet out of a 270 will not get though it tried many times.when I started using a rifle chamberd in 44 Remington magnum I started killing deer !
Yes! Especially when you Dad hunted with a Model 94 in .32 Special in the 40's and 50's! A brush gun is TOTALLY necessary because I am now 80 years old...and that's the way it is! :) Now if you ask a 22 year old...they may think the perfect brush gun is an AR 223. Maybe it is!!! :)
They may think an AR in 223 is the perfect brush gun but I'll take your Dad's model 94 any day over an AR! And I bet after 5 years the m94 brings home more deer?
All Things Magnum, that mountain laurel sure does make visibility tough! And I have to tip my hat to you for hunting in the mountains because that's some tough going. Especially getting something out of those hollows.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Gets very tricky. Tried sneaking around a buck’s core area several years ago. Mountain Laurel got so thick I was crawling to get through. Took 45 minutes to move 100 feet. I climbed out of a deep hole last week. As I was huffing and puffing to get back up to the top, found several good rubs. Those deer are part mountain goat. Been using a Mossberg 535 12 gauge and going to a rifle this year. Was hard to make a decision when I like short, powerful, stainless steel, and stock is adjustable. Decided on Savage 110 Brush Hunter in 338 win mag. Has a 20” barrel. Recoil is equal to 3”00 buckshot out of my 6.5 pound shotgun. Like Henry rifles, but length of pull is fixed. Getting a leupold 1.5-4 scope. After the rain, scope rings, scope, and adding a cheek riser it’ll weigh about 8.5 pounds. Have a red dot on the shotgun which makes getting on target quick, but did me not good when I saw a good buck on a ridge above me about 100-125 yards away.
Tom thanks for the information i do enjoy your work but have project i want to do i have a 303 no1 mk3 the rifle is sport but what is the importend point i need to look at to make the rifle a good bush hunter
A lot of pig hunters use lever guns in New Zealand in the bush "brush". Generally cheaper rossi 44mags or 357's. They will have a pack of dogs that will track and hold the pig. Then the hunter closes in, flips the pig and sticks it with a knife. Or shoots its.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving thanks for the reply. I appreciate your wisdom on firearms and reloading. When my partner complains to me that I keep buying new rifles but I haven't brought her an engagement ring yet. I tell her it's your RU-vid videos that keep radicalizing me. Yes using dogs on pigs in bush is effective. Though the dogs love it, it can result in some expensive vet bills. I have even heard of guys catching a boar tusk in the arm or leg because they zigged when they should have zagged. I shot a Red stag down in a steep gully a few years back. While I was boning it out I slipped and it's antler went into my thigh a few inches. So us Deer hunters need to watch out also. Because a buck or stag will get the last laugh if we aren't careful.
I got to disagree on this. I say it depends on where and how you hunt. And what you call a brush gun. Do you mean to actually shoot through brush. If you answer yes then no you don't need one. If on the other hand you think they are light , short easy to handle and use a big enough cartridge to put what your hunting down quickly then yes. Fl. Hunting can include a lot of getting in and out of trucks and boats. So that handy. And you can be tyty swamps and see only in feet not yards so quick and fast are good. And you want a animal down quickly you can't actually track a blood trail very good in water. Side note depends on exactly where you are at you very well could have a water lizard in the water with you looking for you or your deer. Forgot its easier to clime a tree in said swamp if the water lizard, bear, hog puts you up a tree.
Round nosed bullets have no advantage as far as deflection is concerned, this is a fact. Studies done shooting through various sized wooden dowels have proven this. A semi-auto in 308 or 30-06 that is a light 7 to 8 pound and 20” or 22” short barreled rifle with a 1x8 scope is probably the best compromise if used with 170-180 grain pointed bullets. 1 power for heavy bush and 8 power for long shots. If you can’t hit your target on 8 power you probably should not take the shot. If you can have more than one deer rifle you can set up all kinds of suitable rifles.
Robert, you touched on something there that I have always wondered about. I am very certain large heavy slow bullets are less likely to be deflected in brush than light fast bullets for example .223 vs 45/70. But it just so happens that most of the large heavy slow bullets are round nose like the 45/70, .444 Marlin, and so on. Now I have wondered if the nose of the bullet actually made a difference or if the heavy slow bullets that do best in brush just happen to be round nose more often than not? So when you say the shape doesn't matter if we're comparing the same bullet say a pointed vs a round nose in a 175gr 30/06 or whatever cartridge I can see that being the case or the pointed bullet even having a slight edge. But with that said I would still opt for the round nose in brush just because I always had more dependable expansion with a round nose. But thanks for bringing that up. That was something had wondered about.
Tom I was not addressing expansion, only deflection. I agree with your reasoning and almost always tend to go with bullets on the heavier end of the spectrum for a particular caliber. I enjoy your talks and am a faithful subscriber. Keep up the good work.
I choked when he said Yes you must have the 30-30 over the bolt gun to get deer ! I have all kinds or gun and have hunted allot of my life from the Pacific NW rain forest . I have put the hurt on countless deer and Elk using 7 mm Rem mags - 300 WBY mags - 338 win mags and did I ever miss a deer or Elk in the dark rain thick forest of Oregon coast range ? NO ! Also we used large magnums to put a deer or Elk down dead or if that animal runs finding the animal becomes very hard to find in thick wet rain forest . The advantage of a strong power scope in heavy brush I can find the slightest part of a deer or Elks body then find a hole to shoot through brush . This guy I find has a whole lot of troubles I feel after watching his video's . I shoot a deer or Elk with a 7 mm Rem mag - 300 WBY mag 338 win mag or the 9.3x62 I own that animal is dead .
Moldo you must have been watching another video because I don't recall ever saying you must have a 30-30 over a bolt to get deer. I said there are real advantages to having one and I stand by that statement. But I would never say anyone had to have this or that. But we can agree that if you hit a deer with one of those cartridges you are probably getting that deer!
Tom, your story about shooting the deer with only one bullet in the gun needs some enhancement... Just pretend that rifle was a fine handmade German single shot custom model. Did I say enhancement? I meant lie like a big dog! Yeah, "You were hunting with a $5K custom Austrian stalking gun and the round came from friend's hand load and HE told you later that the round was not right..." Now, you've redirected any fault away from yourself. It's sad when you have to pretend you're a politician when it comes to helping out a hunting story. BTW, you're not the only person to have made a goof when you were a teenager. Not gonna mention any names but I know a guy who forgot to chamber a round when the deer stepped out, loudest click in history and the fastest deer ever seen running away, LOL! Great video about brush guns! Take care!
The long supported falsehood that slow heavy bullets are deflected easier than pointed fast moving bullets was debunked by a few guns and ammo writers in the 80s. Show me some scientific evidence please. Don't get me wrong, I love my 30-30 but I have proven to myself many times that my 3006 will deflect way less passing through anything. People love this one and don't seem to be able to let it go . Like dropping your magazines all over the ground and not even thinking about recovering them if you are in actual combat. 😜🤪😀
I think maybe in your first sentence you meant to write that slow heavy bullets are deflected less is the falsehood, or at least that seems to fit better with the rest of the post. Regardless, my understanding is that Tom is incorrect about the slow heavy bullets being proven to deflect less is a fact. It is just an old wives tale.
