Moffat said Eleven was a lost little boy, who every now and then showed a fearsome old man in his eyes. But Twelve is a fearsome old man who sometimes shows a lost little boy in his eyes.
@@peaceunion5316 MOST people also think 10th romantic nature is what makes him a good doctor MOST people also dont know how bad is "I dont wanna go" line while crying MOST people have shit taste.
Lol, your phrasing "last words" almost confused me there for a second. You mean, her final words OF THIS EPISODE of course! I mean, don´t think, I would spoil anything here, I hate that myself! But just let me be brave here a bit for a second and just ask the question: Does this mean, that we might actually hear some real "last words" of her character at some point? I mean, try to keep it vague, but she´s not going to be the companion for the 13th Doctor anymore, or is she?......
I told the "what's wrong with being scared" speech to my 4-year-old niece after she told me she was having a string of nightmares, she was having and she still quotes it (the whole thing) to this day three years later. Doctor Who getting me out of fights ("I am talking") and connecting me with little humans, that I am related to in some way.
Moffat is the absolute genius when it comes to nursery horrors. I'm not scared of the mayority of monsters in Doctor Who, but this "something under the bed" thing is terrifying.
I actually misinterpreted the episode for a while and so I kind of underappreciated the actual genius of Moffat here! Because I initially thought, that there really was SOME sort of monster/creature/villain!...
Yeah, what I mean is that I changed my mind, when people explained to me, that there actually is no enemy this time! That is WHY it is so genius, because the Doctor throughout himself even so desperately tries to find some and figure stuff out. That basically essentially SHOWCASES his exact fear!! To think, that all those elements in this episode are a little bit more vague or ambiguous than usual, maybe also just flat out misinterpreted by our protagonists, makes the episode a lot more deeper and valuable to me! It´s because we don´t get a definitive answer this time, that this episode always keeps being so interesting. If I compare this to what I previously thought, that everything is basically just exactly the way we´re either shown or told and that we just don´t get a reasonable explanation for all of it at the end.... kind of seems really boring now to me....
Moffat always liked to tap into the primal fears that everyone has, especially in the early days. Gas mask kid = Losing your parents, Clockwork droids = Monsters under the bed, Weeping Angels = Things that move when you aren't looking, Vashta Nerada = Shadows/the dark, etc.
Kayra Youvmir, i would say it's not ambiguous at all. We clearly see the reason for the Doctor's fears, and all the creepy events have rational, benevolent explanations.
You're spot on Jess. Clara fits so much better with 12 than she did with 11, she is to 12 what Amy was to 11, she helps to define him. And you're right about Twelve as well. Fear and kindness are the motifs of his run.
I would even say, fear and kindness are some of the biggest aspects of the Doctor´s character and motifs, basically overall! I´m just curious to see, if it is going to stay that way in the future...
"Fear does not have to make you cruel or cowardly, but it will make you kind instead". And his promise he repeated in Day of the Doctor in the same barn - "never be cruel, never be cowardly". Basic things.
Nobblk Praetorian wow I’m glad he turned it down cuz it was a movie with an average script, don’t get me wrong i still enjoyed watching the movie, but what a waste of Capaldi’s skills would that be
@@LydiaTereK Wasn't Tim Curry also considered for the 8th Doctor as well? Personally, I think he would've made a great Master, to be honest, but seeing him as the Doc would have been interesting too.
Capaldi's 12th Doctor characterisation is far more complex and multi-layered than most,if not all, previous doctors. He's extremely interesting and enjoyable to watch,even when some of the stories are weak.
According to Gareth Roberts (writer of episode 6), 12 really was all over the place and inconsistent in series 8 because the writers didn't really have much of a character to go off. It seems they cast Capaldi before thinking about what 12 should be like. EDIT: Source twitter.com/OldRoberts953/status/887320548996509697
Yeah, I don´t know. I´d rather pass on 4th wall breakings, if they come with references of Donald Trump or something else of similar relevance for us nowadays. To me, it´s at its best, when he gives one of his GREAT SPEECHES!
Yeah, I was expecting to be misunderstood! I mean, I wanna try my best to avoid spoiling anything, but those Trump references, that are still to come, felt so out of place or without any real connection to the plot, but during a time, when it was hugely relevant for the rest of the real world! It made me feel as if the characters or maybe even the writers were talking or even winking directly to us viewers!
You are quite right. The relationship between Cara and 12 is far closer than Clara and 11. Eleven would always be Amy's raggedy man while Clara was the first face Twelve saw. As you will see as it progresses, there was always a deep and sometimes dangerous bond between these two. I saw it as a love between two soulmates or an almost father and daughter relationship
Soulmates yes, but father and daugther??? There are some moments in the show where the two of them are far from father and daugther. But everyone has their own interpretation, I guess.
It's a difficult relationship to define. I don't see any sexual inclination, either on The Doctor's behalf or Clara's. She may have had a romantic interest in 11, but not 12. I see them as having a deep emotional bond based on 12's trust in her as his "first face" and Clara's understanding of his need for her as an anchor to humanity.
While 11 and Clara do engage in flirtation, 11 doesn't actually has romantic feelings for her since he still loves River. 12 and Clara has a much more closer relationship because she helped him in discovering who he is and they both see each other as equals, unlike Bill and 12 which have a father-daughter/ teacher-student relationship.
I'm so glad you understand what they're doing with the Twelfth Doctor's characterisation, I was a little worried you might not like it. He maintains a wall of grumpiness and anger in order to hide his deep seated insecurities about himself (during Series 8, at least).
We already know, how well Moffat can turn everyday things like water or statues into something scary for you! Now.... Here, he´s making something scary out of a THOUGHT!!!
Yeah, for convenience sake, let´s just pretend, I was referring to Waters of Mars! I guess my intention should be clear, just trying to mention the most iconic and memorable ones! Come to think of it, I should have actually rather said "Shadows"!
I love 12's outfits. The t-shirts and dress shirts under the jacket are always on point!! Then there is the jacket itself. I'm also not ashamed to admit that Peter Capaldi is my older man crush there's something about him 😍❤️
Yeah, but still, what was that all about with that little toy figure? Still can´t entirely wrap my head around that, I´ve come to basically just ignore it by now.....
ChanCeNecK It's a symbol. It's used to represent many things/people: the Doctor (a soldier, but carries no gun), bravery/ability to overcome fear (doesn't need a gun to fight), Danny (a soldier who left the gun behind) & the general idea that you are never truly alone
Ah! Okay, I can get behind that, maybe it helps to keep that in mind! But besides that, my main concern still was, to understand how the heck that figure ends up from the Doctor (because that´s the LAST person, that it´s been given to during the episode, I watched VERY OFTEN, VERY CLOSELY!! lol) to the family of Orson Pink again! Am I just stupid or is it really just such an unimportant side note, that we´re really not supposed to care about??
ChanCeNecK I think Orson pink is Is a possible future that depends on clara's choices and I think in the time line where Orson pink comes to exist the doctor didn't listen to clara and figured out where they had been and put the pieces together after meeting Danny.
ChanCeNecK, this is the "lifecycle" of the toy soldier: It starts in the children's home. Probably bought from a toy shop. Rupert Pink keeps Dan the Soldier Man after having his memories scrambled by the Doctor. The toy soldier is passed down the Pink line for a couple of generations as an heirloom, until Colonel Orson Pink gives it to Clara, at the end of time. Clara leaves the soldier without a gun as a memento for the Doctor in the barn. After that, we don't know. It ends with the Doctor.
Yes this episode was, and still is, mind blowing in the way that only DW can be. And frankly it’s only Moffat episodes that actually have this level of ambition and realisation. Is it really about anything? Debatable. But the journey, for Clara, Danny and Twelve, is incredible. And of course that ending is remarkable, and kinda gives us more John Hurt, never a bad thing. And the really good news? This is not the most mind blowing episode for Twelve.
Well said. For me Moffat brought an emotional resonance and thematic complexity to Who that wasn't there before. Does he always pull it off ? Nope. But then a man's reach should exceed his grasp right ? Or what's a heaven for ;).
I know what you mean about being about anything. They filled the episode with good speeches and character development, but was there a monster, or someone to be saved? At the time when I saw it, I felt the way I would feel if I saw a 007 where there was no mission or villain. Lots of girls, martinis, fixing a broken pipeline while having some childhood memories and character development... Enjoyable, but with something very important missing.
Fun fact, Ashildr was there somewhere waiting for the doctor with a game of chess. The knocking was actually Jack Harkness and River Song wanting to prank an innocent astronaut.
Clara is definitely more defined as a character with Twelve. Companions and Doctors cross over with each other of course, the real pairing is whoever spend the most time together. Even though Clara did a season with Eleven, she's primarily a Twelfth Doctor companion, same as how even though we met River in a Tenth Doctor episode she's really an Eleventh Doctor era companion.
I think because Clara is the first face Capaldi saw he will develop a deep relationship with Clara as 11did with Amy. There is something to be said about the concept of imprinting like a baby has to a mother. 11 was so protective of Amy.
and Ben and Polly was the first face 2nd saw, a nurse was the first face 3rd saw, 4th saw sarah Jane, 5th saw tegan ,nyssa and adric, 6th saw peri 7th saw mel, 8th saw a morge worker, sorry dont work that way!!!!!!!
RTD purists :D that's funny. No hate for his era, but have to admit that it was Moffat's writing that really got me hooked on Doctor Who. Still, now that he's gone, I'm actually excited to see what comes next. In fact, I think that that's the best thing about Doctor Who - learning to embrace change :)
I've really enjoyed Moffats run. loved all the bonkers season long plots, so twisty and twirly. He created River so 😁. Will miss him as much as I miss Matt and Peter
Declann Shields I can get why some people aren’t big on Moffat’s writing - it’s personal preference after all - but the feminist outrage is downright ridiculous. Amy, River & Clara are some of the most complex characters I’ve ever seen, but apparently an actress deciding to wear a skirt is an example of the showrunner’s hatred of the opposite sex:/
I'm mostly a fan of his work, I just think he went overboard with how important he made clara. This episode was especially overboard, where she basically implanted all of the doctor's lifelong ideas into his head as a child. I also felt that he didn't really let Matt Smith's Doctor really shine as often as he should have. I think I prefer Moffat over RT Davies in terms of story, but RT Davies managed the characters better.
Still not a hugging person, huh?.... Well for that I would highly recommend to just look at my profile picture, one of my personal ALL TIME favourite snapshots of all of Doctor Who! Just the picture alone gives me some emotions.... I had to edit/tweak it a little it so it shows more on my profile as well, but I hope, the main aspect/message still comes through....
19:27 This is definitely one of my favourite moments in all of your reactions. It's just so hilarious to see you and Clara react in the exact same way and make the same face :)
So glad you like the new Doctor. It took me a while too, and it seems they kind of expected that , seeing the first episodes, but he grew on me and by now is one of my favourites. This episode starts to show more of his inner damages and fears, and i love that they bring this out.
yea he started off a big slow in the first episodes but he builds up quick. Matt started right out the gate but it takes Peter a few episodes to get going, but once he does he's just as fun.
I found the whole reaction thing after how crushing "Time of the Doctor" was (I found a video of a girl freaking out with her mother as Matt regenerated to Peter and her mom not knowing what the hell was going on just being there for the young girl and found that beautiful). This was the episode that brought me to the "sesskasays" reaction channel. The times when this episode came out were very dark days for me to be a "Doctor Who" Fan. Every feed was filled with the whole "Moffat Hate " (that I am still waiting to be explained, not here.....*spoilers*). The first three episodes of Capaldi's run were too show how different he was from Matt's (I will always remember every second when the Doctor was him). at 8:00 mins of your video is when I decided to ignore the vitriol of the internet. Your struggle through the first season (legitimate questions about what was going on). Then moments that stood out for you along the way (I was one of the ones who overhyped the "I am talking" speech, which led to me becoming the annoying guy who kept bringing up "not talking about future episodes"). You reminded me of how much I love this show, you gave me back my love for this show, you will never know the gift you have given me. I adore how you got through all of this, how you shared your heart with the World, you will always be my Greatest Companion because you gave me my show back! Thank you and when I am no longer a broke Grad Student, I will send you a gift, because that is what you have done.....giving me one of my greatest gifts, I have ever received you gave me my show back. I wrote in the comment section before: "Name of the Doctor" and this is my bringing that to a close. Thank you, Taz
There are so many layers to this doctor and I cant wait for you to discover them! This is imo the first great episode of the capaldi era, though the most spectacular is still to come and it is breathtakingly beautiful. I cant wait for you to see that! (We all know which one im talking about, but no spoilers!)
"Fear can make you kind" reminds me of the realization that Amy had in "The Beast Below", where she understands the starbeast as being ancient and alone and the very very last of its kind, how that those things made it impossible to stand by while children cried.....being the oldest, most alone an last...Made it kind. its how she sees the Doctor. As where Clara sees something silimar an yet, Different.
Capaldi knows how to rock a soliloquy, he has a captivating presence that draws you in. The intrigue also comes from the Doctor not knowing everything, a thirst for knowledge versus the fear of the unknown. As well as a progression of Danny Pink’s character. The tension though is unreal, incredible storytelling and music.
I am glad you saw this episode. You were right about the 12th Doctor, he does have the look of a grumpy, older man whilst underneath he is still at times the scared little boy from Gallifrey who doesn't want to go into the army, which is why he went to the Academy instead. Remember Clara was only with 11 for half a season so there was no time really for their relationship to grow. With 12 there is a much more mature aspect to their relationship due to the age difference whereas Clara and 11 were more of a childlike quality.
Oh man, this episode was such a blast! It was beautiful! There's another speech the Doctor gives at the beginning which might be as equally brilliant and for those who might not know first time what that is, *google it.*
This quickly replaced "Blink" as my favourite episode, and was the moment Capaldi became my Doctor. I love how there's this question of what it means to be the Doctor. 12 seems more introspective at this point than the previous three (or 5).
I’ve been rewatching everything in the lead up to the 60th, watched this one tonight and forgot how much I loved it. Peter’s performance during the bedroom scene with young Danny in particular is magical, felt like he properly arrived as the Doctor here. A Moffat masterpiece!
I still have strong and fond memories of the "Redbeard" reaction to this episode! Still can´t get over the fact, that he´s just gone now.... May he rest in peace....
The line at the end "Fear makes companions of us all" was said by the 1st Doctor to his first companions. So an episode aired in the 1960's now quotes something Clara said to the young Doctor in the 2010's- thats Doctor Who timey-whimey for you! Great episode, great reaction.
And YAY for seeing Clara shine beyond being the "Impossible Girl". She has her flaws, but I never really got the white hot HATE that some fans had for her.
Just to say - that date scene where Danny gets offended at what Clara says, it's meant to be him misunderstanding her (and I think you did to). When she said "from you that means something", she said that meaning that he's usually quiet, kind and not very stern with the students. She doesn't know about his personal history with the military at this point although he thinks she does, she only knows that he served in the army. Not a fan of Clara, but I don't want you thinking she's some terrible person that would deliberately make rude remarks about him killing someone.
One of my favourite episodes. Capaldi's portrayal of a slightly damaged Time Lord makes him so much more interesting, imo. A wounded angel is far more interesting than a superhero.
Sesskasays, I agree that Clara was completely in the shadow of Amy and Rory in her first year, and that we don't even start to see her/understand her/feel her until "The Day of the Doctor" and "The Time of the Doctor". She is certainly the bridge between 11 and 12 and blossoms as a true companion for the ages with 12.
Possibly my fave episode of his entire run, certainly this season, although you still have some amazing stories coming up... I love the psychology of the entire piece & I'm so glad you're enjoying this run as much as we did when it aired. And not to spoil anything but your insight into the 'grumpy old man' part of his persona being an act... kudos. Your reactions are one of my weekly highlights while working in the studio, loving re-living all these moments with you!
It's funny, despite all of 11's relationship with Clara I only really think of her as 12's companion; even thought she was with 11 through some huge events and was pining for him at the beginning, I felt like that true connection was never quite there in the way that it was with Amy, but with 12 it's just right.
Clara works better with 12 than 11 because she doesn't have to be another version of Rose. She can shine on her own merits and begin her own journey. I loved the banter between Clara and 11, but 12 and Clara are a combination not seen in Who since the 1970's.
I'm so pleased that you enjoyed Listen. Many have said what is it under the bed sheets well I think maybe it came through the Tardis to Danny's past and perhaps it has something to do with the Telepathic circuits and these beings are there as a manifestation of fear until the end of the universe. When Clara said "Fear is a constant companion, that line was taken from the first Doctor in the very first story An Unearthly Child. Great reaction.
+ChanCeNecK Well I believe in series 7 she was just a mystery with little personality. In series 8 her charactor developed but there was to much lovey dovey stuff. In series 9 she had personality and was a great companion as she did what a companion was meant to do.
Johnny Davison well, if you rewatch s7b after s8, and pay attention, you can see that her core personality has always been there. It’s just that with Eleven, she wasn’t pushed that much to reveal the “bossy control freak” beneath the “bubbly personality”. Just look at “Hide”, for example: once things go wrong, Clara... well, she drops the facade incredibly quickly. With Twelve it’s so much harder to keep it up, so it’s much more obvious who she is beneath.
+Kayra Youvmir oh I'm not saying she had no personality at all. I'm just saying that her charactor got better as she went on. in series 7 I can see her personality but it was not that big of a personality. She got a hell of alot better.
When I saw this video I couldn't wait to see your reaction as this is my joint 4th favourite Doctor Who story (the other being the Rings of Akhaten). I'm so glad you enjoyed it!
Although it's never named as such, the creature under blanket resembles a Floof, from a 2006 short story written by Moffat himself. It's called Corner of the Eye, although Moffat himself has no recollection of actually writing it!
I love that you're reacting to 12th doctor episodes now, there are so many that I love and this is definitely one of them :) I love episodes that are a bit more complex. I love seeing how time travel can affect everyday life, and how a single moment in the past or present can have a significant effect on the future. I hope you enjoy the upcoming episodes! :)
Yes, your perceptions of Twelve's persona is quite right, I think. It will take a lot of work by Clara to help him grope his way back to "humanity". Capaldi's Doctor evolved more than any of the others over his tenure, apart from, probably, Hartnell's first Doctor. It's worth sticking with the journey, even if you feel you want to strangle this Doctor at times.
I agree with you. At first I thought 12 had a really up and down character arc, but it makes sense in the context of the story. Season 8 is him at his rawest and most vulnerable. The "viel" is lifted, as they said, and now he has to learn to live again. Later seasons (which I can't talk about here) expand on this idea. It's so good.
This is really Dr Who at its best and I agree, just the right tone of story and direction for Capaldi's Doctor. Loved the unusual premise, the Doctor postulating on top of his Tardis, the coffee cup swipe, his 'scared is a superpower' speech and the jaw dropping realisation of where Clara had taken the Tardis! Your reactions are phenomenal and I'm so pleased that you enjoyed it :)
10:45 "... it has no gun - That's why he's the boss; a soldier so brave, he doesn't need a gun, to keep the whole world safe..." When she says it, is she thinking of The Doctor?
I think Listen is one of the best of Season 8 and does a good job with it's own premise while adding greatly to the Doctor's overall story. Moffat does so well with making the ordinary terrifying plus here he also gives the cast some excellent dialog. Peter delivers another great speech in this one regarding fear that we can all take something from. Jenna Coleman really comes into her own this season, and this episode especially is a big win for her. I think a combination of better writing and having that instant connection with Peter, they just seem to spark off each other so well. I was waiting for the moment when Jess recognised the barn from the anniversary special and it didn't disappoint. It is amazing what a difference lighting makes to a set. We now know why the War Doctor chose that location to use the Moment. There are some great nods to other moments in Dr Who too. "Sontarans perverting the course of human history" is a line uttered by the 4th Doctor in "Robot" which is itself a nod to the 3rd Doctor story "The Time Warrior". "Not a click or a tick" was also uttered by the 3rd Doctor in "Death to the Daleks". And "Fear makes companions of us all" is a line of the 1st Doctor from "An Unearthly Child"'s third episode.
G'Day Jess. Hope your well. You mentioned snow. Sounds like so much fun. For myself, never seen snow in my life, as its about half a day or more journey to the Snowy Mountains in southern NSW. Anyway, wonderful as always. I remember getting up at 4am (or similar time) to watch this as the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) was broadcasting all of series 8 LIVE (I started watching from Robot of Sherwood), as watching this in the dark, rugged up, resting on the lounge, scared me. Still a fan favourite of mine.
LOL. This area is pretty much the only location it snows throughout Winter in Australia, even though it does snow once in a blue moon in Tassie, The Blue Mountains (west of Sydney) and even at least once a year as high as Armidale in northern NSW. Its named because of the all the snow but also its high mountains (not internationally though). Most Sydneysiders go there to have the experience of snow. The Snowy Mountains are location in and around Thredbo, NSW. I have never been, but who knows. Sorry to turn this into a geography lesson.
The problem with the Clara/Eleven stories is that they are driven by the "Impossible Girl" mystery. Now that the mystery is solved she's able to develop a little more as a character, particularly with regards to her relationship with Mr. Pink.
