I love Rose, but I do wish that they would’ve kept the tension in season 2. Her growth is kind of stunted because there’s no clash between her and 10. She became Wendy to his Peter Pan. The love thing isn’t a big deal to me because a 19 year old girl would obviously fall in love with someone like the Doctor. But she should’ve challenged him even more in season 2 since she’s coming into her own and he’s more “human”. I think doomsday would’ve been much more powerful had they kept her slightly uncomfortable with the new doctor. And when they finally got used to one another they are ripped apart.
I suppose it might be natural for the 19 year old girl to fall in love with the Doctor, it's more the 900 year old Time lord falling in love with her that I have an issue with
@@thetalisman7722 I just realized, in watching RU-vid reactions, that he was going to send her to the alternate universe permanently and didn't seem particularly bothered by it. She refuses to go (comes back, technically) and he argues that she'll be separated from her mother ("Your own mother!"/"I made my choice a long time ago"). Earlier in the season, we had the Mme. de Pompadour episode. I started to wonder whether he was in love with her at all. Not that he didn't love her, but that it might not be the big romance most people think. I have argued that Rose and Nine challenged each other when they got out of control but Rose and Ten encouraged each other to get out of control (much as you argue here).
Agree, but I think her challenging the Doctor changed because he changed - yes, his face, but more that, he healed from the Time War. He said so himself in Journeys End ("you made me better") therefore the pushing/pulling spark between them would naturally fizzle out because he wasn't automatically angry anymore.
I love Rose, but she was also the first companion I was introduced to. I hadn't really thought about her flaws much, but I definitely agree that she overshadowed Martha too much.
Okay I’m gonna defend Rose a little. Sarah Jane was the first one to take shots, and she was the older party. Rose gave the same energy back. Also, I think Rose had every right to chew out Elton owing to the fact that he was stalking Rose and the Doctor, and Jackie had to find out for herself after becoming close with him. It was a betrayal. Rose had no idea what that creature was until the Doctor explained it, and she didn’t know who Ursula was until she died later on, after Rose had confronted Elton. And still Rose comforted him.
I do agree with you that Rose was a generally better character with 9 than she was with 10, but I think the fact that she haunts 10 throughout his run makes sense. The Doctor liked the illusion of feeling like he was a part of Rose's family and pretending they could actually be together because he was desperately lonely. The trauma of losing his home and people was still fresh, and Rose gave him a sense of belonging. I think he was never the same after losing her because that illusion of his came crashing down and he had to truly grapple with being alone in the world, and knowing that there was a gaping hole in his life. The Tenth Doctor was often impulsive, short-sighted, and arrogant, yet he had such a massive capacity for love that he grew attached to people too easily, thereby opening himself up to get his hearts broken over and over again. Ultimately I see his story as a tragic one, and even though I do have a few gripes with Rose's characterization, I feel like, at least for me, his run wouldn't have packed the same emotional punch without her. She may have only been with him for a short time in the grand scheme of things, but she was the one who opened him up and taught him that it was still POSSIBLE for him to love, despite all his suffering. Personally though, I think 10's healthiest relationship was with Donna. He cared for Martha, but because she was in love with him and he didn't reciprocate, he always kept her at a distance and never gave her the appreciation she deserved for generally being one of the most badass companions he ever had. With Donna though, there was none of that pesky pining or jealousy or awkwardness. They loved each other to bits and brought out the absolute best in each other. I think losing her in such a traumatic way was the final nail in the coffin that pushed him to become the dark and broken figure we see in The Water on Mars and The End of Time.
I think for Rose she's very much written in her age. I do wish she took longer to adjust to him. The doctor changed her life at 19,which can stunt someone and seeing him changed, she maybe realized how fleeting her time with each doctor would be. I get not liking the mushy gushy shit, I personally think it's cute. I also hate how she left a shadow over Martha. Martha was brilliant and had more mature chemistry with the doctor, which he needed. I like Clara because although her and 11 had romantic feelings their friendship made them stronger. Rose and 10 didn't have a friendship which is why I feel they were only romantically attached. And then with the 12th doctor that friendship persisted and became a very sweet story of close friends.
As I look back all that, I think one of the main reason love Rose so much is because young teen girls and women in their twenty were able to view her as a self-insert character for themselves. They didn’t love Rose for Rose's sake, they loved her because they thought of themselves as her. They wanted to be the one in a relationship with David Tennant's Doctor so bad they couldn't see the obvious flaws in their relationship and her shift in characterization.
i rewatched the christmas invasion right after rewatching the empty child and the doctor dances (just rewatching stuff at random recently) and i completely agree. the christmas invasion was almost like whiplash because through most of the episode she's so stressed (understandably so) about the doctor regenerating and then suddenly tennant shows up and it's all fine? either show a companion who actually copes with regeneration without significant distress or make them actually stressed out. i get what rtd was trying to do but it just didn't work because rose changes her mind so suddenly. at the 30 minute mark she's convinced that ten is not the real doctor and he's never going to measure up to nine and then 20 minutes later she's fine? i think i would've preferred a clara situation where she says she needs to take a break because she's too overwhelmed (and traumatized from... having to deal with hostile aliens on her own perhaps). and rose can show up again later in season 2, maybe after a few episodes. with both martha and donna, i think they made the doctor better and rose did too initially but in season 2 she starts becoming too detached as well. when ten decides to depose harriet jones, that's a scene that rose from season 1 would take an issue with, but it's just never addressed. the companion is supposed to be the human element, but rose is only the human element when a scene needs her to cry. they could've gone somewhere interesting with rose trying to become too much like the doctor (like clara's arc - i realize she keeps coming up but i don't actually like her that much, she's just better written) but they don't do that. it would just be more interesting to see that kind of take with how nonchalant she is with dangerous situations than the basically nothing that we get. i think it makes a lot of sense for rose to fall in love with the doctor (even though i hate it) but i honestly don't get it that much the other way around. he's hundreds of years old (maybe thousands? lol) and rose is just so... childish. it can make sense for her character because she's just 19 but i really don't see someone who is literally hundreds of years old falling in love with someone who got legitimately jealous learning that he travelled with someone else before. i'm also just biased because that episode did sarah jane so dirty and she's one of my favourite doctor who companions.
And Ten changed history by deposing Harriet Jones. She was supposed to usher in a Golden Age and he stopped that from happening. He was Time Lord Victorious as early as that, before any of his other adventures as Ten.
He said in one of his books that if you put a man and a woman onscreen together, the audience makes the love story anyway (I'm quoting from memory here).
Rose Tyler and Clara Oswald Oswald are two totally different characters restaurantes team Doctor Who johnra but two totally different women that's like comparing Rose to Martha or Martha Donna Captain Jack to Mickey come on are you kidding me how to tell the difference just like confusing the Cybermen with K9 robot exact
I both agree and disagree with this take. I definitely prefer rose in season 1. She’s given a lot more meaningful stuff to do and the season focuses more on her as an individual than on the relationship. I totally see why anyone would dislike her in series 2 even though I think her clingyness and jealousy was justified by the fact that the doctor was clearly pushing her away emotionally while simultaneously flirting with her all the time (besides the fact that she’s a teenage girl and any teenage girl would act that way). I do think the romance makes sense when you consider the characterization of rtd’s doctor. She’s the first emotional connection he makes after the time war, which literally wiped out his entire species. If there was ever a time the doctor would fall in love with a human, it was at that point, when he was completely alone in the universe. The relationship, and the doctor himself, were much more carefree in series 2, and I believe this was intentional. The reason she cast a shadow over the rest of tennant’s era is because she was the first companion after the time war, and in a meta sense, the first companion after the revival. Fans were attached to her for understandable reasons. The doctor was attached to her for understandable reasons. Her departure marked a turning point in the doctor’s characterization. He became darker, meaner, more emotionally closed off (poor Martha), and in my opinion, more interesting. Donna was exactly what he needed so get him back on course, just like rose was exactly what the ninth doctor needed. And in the end he loses both of them and ends up alone, and we get one of the most heartbreaking send offs to a doctor ever. I don’t think the tenth doctor’s departure would have been as resonant if there hadn’t been such a focus on grief and loss.
I 100% agree with this comment. I'm biased towards Rose because she's my first companion. If the writers hadn't introduced her character so well in the first episode, I probably wouldn't have continued watching the show (which would be horrible, because Doctor Who has gotten me through so many rough times in my life). As time went on, though, she wasn't as flawed and relatable anymore. I realize that by series 2 I only liked her because of what she means to the Doctor, and not her character herself. Since the Doctor was in such a dark place when they met, there's no wonder why he fell in love with her. She kept him grounded, accepted him, and reminded him why he loves and protects the human race. But they became too attached to one another and their relationship inevitably became unsustainable. Being separated from one another hurt so much that it took gifting Rose her own copy of the Doctor for her to move on and for him to walk away. Even though I think Rose and 9 had a much more developed and meaningful dynamic, I still can't help but love Rose and 10 because of the chemistry and talent of Billie Piper and David Tennant. They portrayed their love and heartbreak in such a beautiful way, setting up the 10th Doctor as an incarnation that would be defined by pain and loss. I would even say that having his heart broken by the loss of Rose made his dynamic with Donna (which, like you said, is exactly what he needed) even more awesome. Yes, Rose did cast a shadow over the rest of the Tennant era, but I think it was intentional.
Yeah it's the Lady Cassandra using Rose's body as a vessel - but she does say that she had seen inside Rose's head and she knows that she fancies the Doctor
In parting of the ways the part that really stuck out to me is roses rant about fish and chips and what normal humans do. I like it when Mickey attempts to call her out by stating: “It’s what the rest of us do”. When rose claims she can’t Mickey puts her in her place stating “Why, because you think you’re better than us?” Before Rose cuts him off. This scene gave me a full picture on Rose as a character as a selfish person who thinks because she has traveled doctor thinks she is above everyone else and doesn’t value the normal good things in life. ‘Fish and Chips are a wonderful part of life Rose, learn to appreciate what’s in front of you’!
Mickey wasn’t a good boyfriend even from the start she was nearly in a explosion didn’t sound like he cared at all. With the Christmas invasion rose didn’t know if the doctor would wake up also she had no clue he was going to change. Give her a break, when he came out of the tardis she knew he wouldn’t leave the earth undefended. Martha was damn annoying and was also jealous if the doctor talked to any female that wasn’t her.
I hated how Martha was treated (I love Martha); I was over Rose the second she arrived and thought the Doctor should have been too. I did really like Rose with Nine. I can't say I didn't like Rose in series three, even, but it was easy for me to move on.
Ahem... sorry but this wasn't Rose who kissed The Doctor in New Earth - that was Cassandra who possesed her body. I feel like I must correct you her. Also I found Doctor+River relationships much more toxic and stalkerish (mostly from her part)... Moffat overall seems to have facination with toxic and manuplative almost abusive relationship - which I found very worrying. But to be fair New Who has very bad take on love, relationship and romance for the most part - no matter who we are talking about.
If there is one companion that I can see as love intrest to 10th is Donna Noble. She actually challenged the guy. Called him out on occasion and not to mention she wasn't jealous type. She was capable, sassy and empathic. Friend to lover trope would work in this case. Rose in 10th is a love sick puppy. Almost an addict
Agree so much. All this Rose romance-moaning put me off of most of Tennant's run majorly. I liked the Donna run most of all because of the lack of Rose.
There's a lot wrong with her. Rose with the 9th Doctor was great. She was a well rounded character who cared about others. And even when she had her flaws she acknowledged them and grew from them. She was realistic, and likeable and flawed. But by the time the 10th doctor came around, she only cared about herself and the doctor. And while I understand that she was in love with him, it would have been good if she had challenged him more, if their relationship had remained the way it had with her and nine. She was willing to leave everything behind for the Doctor. It doesn't exactly scream 'independent' woman to me.
@@fusionwolf3589 were we watching the same show? Yes Rose’s feelings for the doctor became stronger and she was willing to give up her life at home for the whole of time and space! Who wouldn’t. Also you’ve got to remember the doctor is her only access to the life she has with him, without him she’d just have been a girl working in a shop. She’s still compassionate in series 2, look at how she helps flora, Cassandra, Toby Zedd… but because of how much she’s grown through her travels with the doctor as Jacky says ‘there’ll be this woman this strange woman walking through the market place a million miles from earth, but she’s not Rose Tyler, not anymore, she’s not even human’. Her arc is that her and the doctor become so complacent with the death and disasters around them that they cause their own separation. Also just because you idolise a man and want to be with them doesn’t mean your not independent. Rose knew what she wanted and that was her life with the doctor and she did anything she could to keep that… that’s pretty strong headed and independent to me.
I disagree that there is nothing wrong with her. She treated Mickey like a subhuman, leading him on, didn't care about leaving her family behind, got jealous over everyone that has a hint at liking the doctors that was a woman, and did so many stupid things that got them into trouble I can't even count. More importantly she doesn't own up to it. She ruined the Doctor for me, made him callus towards new companions. Martha was far superior and he treated her like crap. He just could not let go of Rose. It's just bad writing to force this love interest and ruin later eps for me. Doctor Who should be about exploring new worlds, not this teenage romance pining crap. The Doctor should be better than that.
Dang, it's almost like they were written to be in love, or something? Yeah Rose's jealousy was a tad annoying, but she was 18 and in love for the first time. Also the doctor had to deal with the fact that his quasi girlfriend was separated from him, without being technically dead, while Martha tried flirting with him at every opportunity, which he tried to deflect by bringing uo Rose. Personally I liked Donna the most, but Rose isn't the worst companion either.
Season 1 Rose: Great Rose after that: Just no, not good. And the love story was shit. He's a centuries old alien and she is a teenager it's icky and weird.
I agree with you full heartedly, I hated the way she acted. She is my least favorite companion for new who. Clara has and always will be my fav with Donna second, Amy is almost as bad as Rose. While Martha and Jack deserved better.
I love the way that Clara changes throughout her run, she gets even better with her new Doctor and their dynamic is tested. Rose and Ten just feels like such a cop-out romance for me - Capaldi/Clara's dynamic is so much more interesting...
I think they should’ve done a thing with the fireplace episode where they say goodbye to rose either at a midpoint in the episode or at the end and then Madame would’ve been his companion.
I hope his a not that tattoo cities crap and done that and a time to soap operas and that is more than enough please not on my side by please begging please with you rubbing the pie have to none of this rubbish
Rose comes across like a spoiled child there is nothing grate about Rose people are just jumping on the bandwagon because they don't like truth they can't be honest about something but that's the English for you
Best to worst companions of series 1-7 Martha : Because she always had the doctors back she was always there for him she was strong smart enthusiastic determined she started off great and ended greater plus she went through more than any other companion. Amy : Because Amy felt like the doctors trusted friend she was attracted to him at first sure but then the doctor reminded her of how great Rory is and how loyal he is to her Amy grew to love and respect the doctor from her imaginary friend to her best friend Amy was funny witty cheeky silly she had banter with the doctor she told him off like friends do and she always cared for him. Donna : Oh Donna Noble she was the doctors laughing buddy they would travel the stars and be amazed by one another she never fancied the doctor she saw him for who he was a alien saving the world having fun she’d talk to him as if they’ve known each other for 20 years or more they had a real chemistry she made the doctor feel good about himself when he lost so much at that point and he made her feel the same they both made each other know their worth. Clara : Clara the impossible girl I loved her with Matt the most because they had a little flirty banter but nothing more happened which is fantastic they felt like friends but kind of liked each other a little more would have loved to have seen them together more but sadly nope that never happened but Clara was her best when she was her Victorian version she was extremely cheeky she was brave and ridiculous smart she’d always remember to come home and look after people she would always try to look after the doctor and she was just utterly funny but then she got a little annoying with Peter and stupid Danny Pink… Rose : Worst companion ever because she was a selfish spoiled bitchy bratty self obsessed controlling manipulative spiteful untrustworthy cow she had no loyalties to anyone but herself and I guess the doctor but hardly every single time a new man pops up her head would turn but oooh god no Mickey isn’t allowed to any his eye on anyone other than her the spiteful bitch she cried her eyes out when the doctor regenerated but then spent every second drooling over him because he got attractive, she cried when he was going to regenerate because she fancied the pretty boy in the suit ugh 😑 I fucking hate rose she’s such a horrible person she’s not funny she’s not smart shes not strong hers not driven devoted she’s just a waste of time and space and energy THE DOCTOR NEVER LOVED HER HE WAS NEVER IN LOVE WITH HER that dirty little chav with that huge mouth that makes her look like a retarted horse she is the most annoying person ever and I absolutely hate her! When she was with Chris yeah not gonna lie I liked her but man she became the fucking worst thing ever in series 2 and ruined a lot of the other series because she’d be there constantly reminding the fans THAT SHE IS NUMBER ONE AND THAT NOBODY CAN EVER REPLACE HER!!! ugh 😑 fuck off I laugh every single time I see her almost falling into the void I really wish she’d just fuck off there I mean she was in another universe and she literally didn’t give a shit for anyone but herself there is the doctor telling her that he can NEVER BE WITH HER and she’s like Nahh fuck both universes and come fuck me too yeah? Even when he literally gives himself to her as a human she still being a complete whiny bitch until the human doctor whispers in her ear then when the real doctor leaves she runs after him and I’m like oh for fuck sakes she is literally not happy even now I love RTD but I absolutely hate him for forcing ROSE TYLER ON US EVERY SINGLE SEASON I never want that to happen again I hope there’s a universe out there where the doctor left her on a planet with nothing and nobody so she can die alone! Also other fantastic companions are Sarah Jane because she’s wonderful Wilfred because his literally the doctors dad Jack because the man is fantastic and loyal to the doctor Micky because he became a strong man and was loyal to the dog we call rose Rory because he was loyal to Amy and was the doctors buddy plus Rory because RORY!!! Astrid because she’d have been a real interesting love interest to the doctor and was brave and strong and funny and charming and selfless RIVER SONG because SHE IS THE DOCTORS WIFE Oh fuck it even Jackie is amazing everyone apart from Rose!
