Does The Super Mario Movie Suck? 

The "Good" vs "Fine" debate: the greatest debate of our age!

I love the part where Bowser said “What are we here for? Just to do the Mario?” Then impaled Chunky Kong through the throat. 9/10, should’ve had more social commentary.

I get that the stubborn bickering is almost kind of a bit but Veronica makes such wildly incoherent arguments here lol like what am I even listening to rn

Give illumination credit though. They went one whole movie without a fart joke.

People hated the movie before it came out, then the trailers came out and a group of people suddenly became hyper defensive and positive about the movie. Now there's an angry mob of people who can't handle the fact some people didn't like the movie. That's basically how the events folded out. To be fair when you say something is "not good", it genuinely means bad. But yes, fine does generally mean it's just ok. Passable. Tbh the discussions on this podcast hurt my brain sometimes. "Adults who didn't play Mario probably wont enjoy this movie" "Yeah but they will cos they played Mario as a kid".....WHAT. You literally specifically said adults who didn't play Mario.

Definitely felt a big budget version of the super show, especially with the use of license music in the film .

I feel Mark's pain throughout this whole video.

I’d say I have a pretty similar opinion on this movie that Mark had on the second Sonic movie The Mario fan in me loved the movie, I loved all the little Easter eggs and all the little music cues taken from the games The movie fan in me still liked the movie, but felt the pacing was pretty off and that certain things like Mario never quitting should’ve been expanded on more

Ok as for the “fine vs good” argument, I definitely think Mark is right with this one. If I tell someone I’m “fine” it would mean that I’m pretty much in the middle; I’m content. If a movie is just fine, it’s average. If it’s GOOD, it’s a little above that.

Lesson learned: Don't trust Veronica's taste in movies. Especially when it comes to Illumination.

My take on this is I went in to the Mario movie expecting a fun time, and that’s exactly what I got, it didn’t need to be some groundbreaking masterpiece, it just needed be at the very least entertaining, something mario has be consistent at for the three decades, so in that sense the movie did it’s Job well.

I don't understand how she misconstrues everything Mark says

I like The part in the movie were Chris Pratt goes "Super Bababooey in real life" and then Bababooeys all over 😌

10:22 | My Parents are fighting 50:57 | Veronica‘s new book, The Cap on this App

Bowser playing the piano saved my life

my favorite part was when mario fell into the void and yelled "BABABABABOOEY" as he was falling

It is very similar to the Sonic movies: very fun for fans, but it has some pacing issues.

I think illumination movies are just those typical family movies that are fun for general audiences. I remember watching the Sing and Despicable Me movies with my parents and siblings and we had a fun time. I probably wouldn't watch them by myself but I wouldn't say they're bad either. I think the problem lies when you try to critique every piece of media you consume and forget to sometimes just turn off your brain and have some dumb fun once in a while

I agree with Mark on the movie

This is so frustrating to watch. Every time they start to dig deep into discussion the conversation takes a complete right turn then resets

I’m sorry but your co host was really annoying. Mark has so much patience.

FINE AND GOOD DO NOT MEAN THE SAME THING

I don't mind the simple plot from the movie, but I think the execution is somewhat a let down to me. I could watch Peach being kidnapped by Bowser and Mario going to recue her without any problem if I can see how each character feel about it and have strong character development. For example, have Bowser explain how he came to fall in love with Peach, how Peach could strive to become stronger and have the upper hands on some basic enemies, have Mario come to understand how the mushroom kingdom means for Peach and expand and his brotherhood with Luigi. What I said has nothing to do with an original or thick story, but all of this absolute basic plot line would have made the characters more engaging a minimum. In other words, slow down and stay focus movie... I hope Mario sequels are not constrained with this movie because they could be more character-driven rather than staying mainly focussed on trying to cram every easter egg as possible because you can only go so far with speedrunning nostalgia after a while.

Fine is fine. It ain't good but it ain't bad.

You can make a kids movie without having it be a KIDS movie, if you get me. There’s nothing wrong to expect something more than surface level references and fan service when you go out to watch a movie. The Mario movie is such a bottom of the barrel, safe, sanitized experience comparable to dangling keys in front of a toddler. Something I would put on to distract the kiddies at home

I never read mario's reaction to toad coming as "I don't like this guy I don't want him to join us" It seemed more like peach letting him come along while mario had to train all day and night to be able to go and his reaction was more like "wtf dude I had to train but this guy just gets to tag along?" and the best friends bit mario didn't seem like he didn't like toad by saying they weren't best friendsm but it seemed more like he just met him yesterday for a few minutes so he doesn't really know him that well

50:00 I don't think someone wanting a movie to be the best it can be is a problem, but I think it's also good to be realistic. If I buy an umbrella from the dollar store, I can't be shocked when it breaks easily, because it was cheap to begin with. Adapting a rated-E game series for general family audiences when said series is light on story to begin with doesn't inspire much intrigue to begin with, so expecting them to go much farther than the games do (especially when a figure like Miyamoto is involved) is a bit of a pipedream. I can ask a film to do more, but I'm not going to be surprised when a film tells me from the start that it plans to shoot low. Thinking about it, how many Mario plots could you actually adapt into a proper film without repeating the same beats over and over again? Maybe Sunshine, Galaxy, and Odyssey with modifications/expansions, but not much else. And they certainly aren't pulling plots from the RPGs or anything. Sure, if they expand it further you could use characters like Wario, Waluigi, and Daisy for things, but even in the games said characters either have their own spin-off franchise (Yoshi's Island, Donkey Kong Country, WarioWare, etc.), or are just regulated to spin-off roster fodder.

The best part is when Bowser pulled out a Boom Box and started twerking to Party Rock Anthem

I love watching Mark and Veronica bicker and argue over what’s mediocre

I loved the reference at the beginning lol!

Like 1-2 years of being together, and they're already arguing like an old couple😂

The difference between the references in Marvel movies VS Mario is that Marvel movies give context to references and Mario gives no explanation.

The movie was serviceable, but I agree with Mark that illuminations input is common with their past films. Complaints of the trope commercial music, disappointing/shallow character arcs and lack of audience connection if you are completely foreign to the Mario franchise I do agree are common criticisms. So like Mark says, it was fine. And I think the distinction between fine and good I think is how you feel after the film ended. There wasn't too much to reflect on once you walk out the theater, but in the moment your watching it is that it keeps your attention. Could it have been better? I think so. but the source material didn't have a lot of story depth to begin with and I would have been advocating for the film more if the studio AND Nintendo have made bolder choices in sake of telling a good story or time to flesh thing character relationships to a share an endearing story for kids not dependent on set pieces and nostalgia as much.

I get that Mark wants Sonic Movie 3 to be close to Adventure 2 as possible. But there are some factors that may hold it back. - Paramount is still the Boss and they have tendency to shove things like the wedding scene or the Uptown Funk scene in their films - Sonic at the end of the day in Sega’s eyes is a kids franchise, and would want Paramount to stay that course even in defiance to the writers wishes - It still has to be enjoyable to kids, and Adventure 2 and Shadow the Hedgehog are heavily involved with military action and dark themes…themes that parents will say no to. - The production of a film in the rough stages usually happens a few months after, if we’re looking at the pattern of Sonic movies. To change something to that to fit Sonic’s animation quality would need a push back, and does Paramount see that? I could go over more, but what I’m saying is for Sonic movie 3 to stick closely to its adventure material without shooting its kid angle in the back will be tough. This isn’t the 2000s anymore, some things you can’t get away with now.

I don't think she knows the definition is cinematic

Thanks, Marky Mark, for making me feel like I’m not an insane person

Bowser in the mainline games is quite menacing and is comparable to the beginning of the film In the RPGs and Sports Spinoffs Bowser is more goofy and silly like the scene of Bowser singing and proposal scene

We had metal in the Mario Movie when the koopa sang the Soundtrack from Bowsers Fury

21:29 I could be wrong but i thought that Bowser wanting to marry Peach or whatever is something joked about by the fans. Not often said in the games

Credit where credits due, at least thr Super Mario Bros respects the lore and it's fans... Something I can't say about other movies.

I love how the thumbnail is a reference to the dk rap scene of the movie

This is me talking to my friends about how I would like to see a kids movie go further than what’s expected but they replied with “it’s just a kids movie”, so that means kids movies can’t be really good?

Mark and Veronica need to take it to the ring

46:48 *1st marvel Mention is from @Veronicaandjelly.*

I saw that movie today. I thought it was pretty good Also I'm with Mark on the number scores and definition. Good =/= fine

Charles Martinet was also Marios Dad

Fine and good are not the same thing

While i KINDA get what Veronica's getting at (not all animated movies are comparable), i mostly agreed with Mark in that A: fine isn't the same as good. And B: asking more from an animated movie isn't bad, even when were talking about something like mario.

Honestly, 6/10 as a standalone movie if one had no knowledge of Super Mario. 8/10 or 9/10 for fans. Game references were added on naturally enough to where it didn't feel too much like product placement but part of the world. Like "IT'S LUIGI'S MANSION!!" or "OH! OH! TANUKI MARIO!" or my personal favorite, "THEY USED THE OLD THEME SONG!!!!" I think Super Mario as a franchise is large enough that most of the people who go to watch it will come out with a positive experience. The plot is very basic, I wouldn't call it a GOOD movie, but it is still an ENJOYABLE movie and I think that's one of the more important takeaways.

Veronica in this video is the essence of "that sign can't stop me! I can’t read!"

I do remember they were playing some happy go lucky music during the climax to bowser's castle, I did find that as an odd choice. Was expecting more of maybe a remix of world 8 or castle themes. especially with the battle with bowser.

I agree with Mark. If something is not good that doesnt mean it’s bad. If something is not bad that doesnt mean it’s good. If something is fine then it’s neither good or bad

i really enjoyed the film its not perfect but im pretty happy with how it turned out and ill definitely be on board for a sequel

The movie had no Luigi moments to remember by disappointed

I swear..... if this relationship ever breaks up, it'll be because of the 7/10 thing!

I agree with you guys Mario and Sonic fans shouldn’t compare which movies better I love them both equally despite me having a Mario bias Also for sonic 3 I do think rouge might show up because you can’t have shadow without her

29:06 YES

Mario is the only game that I absolutely ever get genuinely excited about when a new one comes out, so the movie for me was a damn great time. Veronica is right though, Cranky Kong voice was abysmal. I know which actor it was and the whole time I just kept thinking “this is the best old man voice he could do?”

I always think of "fine" to be right in between good and bad. Like how something can be bad without being terrible, or something can be good without being great.

I can't express how much I love the mario franchise so this movie was very special too me

I saw it a few minutes ago and enjoyed the visuals and references but it was too short

In Finland, critics have mainly written that the Mario movie would be good, it is sometimes dark and sometimes philosophical, it has a lot of dark humor and talks lot about death and killing, but the movie can also be distressing for children, which is why it is not recommended that children be allowed to watch the Mario movie without adults. Of course there are also exceptions, and the critic of Helsingin Sanomat hated the Mario movie a lot because it was not a spectacle like the trending live action movies in recent years, it didn't have a strong message, no multiple meta-levels, no Pop culture references and no surprising twists, and the makers and writers of the film were barked at because they haven't known even the bare minimum about the Mario games and media. But since I'm not going to see the Mario movie until Monday, I'm mostly wondering what kind of movie it might be and whether the movie is the same in all countries or whether local changes have been made to it because the descriptions and reviews of the movie are contradictory between different critics, reviewers and viewers.

Did Veronica end up drawing that pic with Mario & DK on the Goofmobile?

Bowser was always goofy in the games

The Mario movie it’s a solid 6/10 it isn’t good, just enjoyable, nothing to write home about.

You just got Luigi’d!

i am now in real life spaghetti

If Peach and Mario just got together after a few sceanes that would have been bad

How does the girl is American but mark is Ireland and they are in the same room

Haven't seen the Mario movie so I can't speak for its quality, but I will say this: while it's true that animation shouldn't just be viewed as for kids, I don't blame people for that view when the "animation is cinema" crowd mainly props up movies made for kids (or with them in mind). Puss in Boots was good, but there's plenty of animated works (mostly foreign) that uses the medium in interesting ways which animations fans either don't know exist or ignore outright. It's a big problem I see with readers of superhero comics: that's the only type of comics they read, so they believe that's all the medium is.

Yeah I’m 100% with mark on this one

"Fine means good." Veronica I swear to god

Veronica , fine means decent.

I hate it when Mom and Dad fight

Dang, Veronica shills hard for fan service.

Luigi didn't win by doing nothing 0/10

Congrats on 0 days sober, Veronica!!

Dude I thought I was the only one that compared bowser to lord hater

Honestly I thought that the mario movie was similar to the sonic movie 2 were it was kinda trying to be more of a "mario" movie rather than a movie which sonic 2 did aswell while sonic 1 just felt like a movie that happened to have sonic in it Yknow? I liked the mario movie but I felt like it should have been like 15 minutes longer and I think it should've had less DK stuff ,idk why it might've just been how I didn't like how the DK family were like royalty that were super rich kings and stuff instead of just being a family and they were really technology advance in the movie with the mario karts and stuff (Ik funky kong was always like that but I think if they were gonna have the mario karts,the toads should've operated them like how they do in MK8) But overall I would probably give the Mario movie 8 Bababooeys out of 10

SPOILERS FOR POST-CREDIT SCENE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I'm with Mark when it comes to that second post-credit scene being underwhelming, though not necessarily for the same reason. My issues come from the Yoshis already being in this movie. Sure, it was only for about 5 seconds in the background, but that's more than some other major Mario characters would be able to say. If you're gonna tease a sequel, then do it with characters that'll be added for that sequel, rather than a character that was a background cameo. I would've been much more excited if it were characters like the Koopalings, Rosalina, or really any other prominent Mario character that wasn't accounted for.

The Super Bababooey Brothers!

This movie needed to be 2 hours long

Mario: Great! (Bowser's voice is only complaint) Sing: Trash Grinch: Garbage Disposable me: Best Illumination movie ever! 2: Fine 3: Hot garbage, an absolute abomination Minions: Better than 3, worse than 2

I feel like fine is right between neutral and good.

Have a Bababooey day! Also I got the LS Mark plushie

Being faithful to my spouse sucks

*PLEASE DO NOT GET CLOSER TO THE MIC UNLESS YOU'RE MOCKING SONNYTM!*

This is one of the most annoying things I've ever listened too. I really like this podcast, but God damn.

48:40 🤣

I think my biggest complaint is all the licensed music throughout the movie. Really takes me out of it. Also wish Luigi had more things to do.

Is it only me or does mark look like he's from the 80s with the weird al hair?

I want DK movie

Genuinely loved the movie.

I had high expectations because Mario has forty years of material to work with and the characters were underdeveloped and so was the story I was disappointed cause they know they could have done better and it's lazy writing

I fucking love the movie. Mario was really on point and he just kept getting better and better throughout the movie. And Bowser hit peach and donkey Kong that’s lit to see. I like when powerful characters are challenged. And Mario was so lit

Fine is good The Super Mario Bros Movie blew both Sonic movies outta the water

WARNING: SPOILERS. IN DEPTH REVIEW. Suck is a harsh word. But it was a far cry from good. I know the problem with it, and it's not going to take no hour and 2 minutes to figure out. (It'll take me that long to write this though). The movie was plagued by a short run time and identity crisis. The movie straddled a line between a new origin story movie, and fanfare film. Their issue was they should have just picked a lane, and went with it. But they were trying to appeal to kids who were new to the franchise, and adults who wanted to feel nostalgic. Ultimately they played it safe, and the story suffered. Personally, I wish they would have made it a fanfare film. I wanted Easter eggs galore, and characters I can identify with, and expect to act a certain way. There were just SOOOO many missed opportunities by trying to create a new adventure... origin style story, with some Easter eggs and nostalgia. Starting out at the beginning, it was fun, it was interesting, the original Super Mario theme song was cool. But then it was rushed... like at every possible avenue. Who was their original boss? What influence does their family have on them, and why does it matter? It just felt like they were there... they existed. And that's it. If that's the case, why even put them in the movie? Especially as new fleshed out characters. Mario and Luigi are terrible at their jobs... I know it was shown that way for comic relief. But ultimately it gave me no confidence they should be the heros and ultimately saviors of two worlds. If they made this a nostalgic film, they could have introduced Mario as the fearless brother, and Luigi as the tag along. (Which they did), but ultimately they were both screw ups. They go into a sewer to fix a gigantic issue plaguing the city, they end up making it worse, or not really any different depending on how you look at it. Then they stumble upon a large green pipe to another dimension... universe. Whatever you want to call it. It would have been way better if they actually did their jobs, began fixing the problem (showcasing their skills, and worth), and upon fixing the problem, found the pipe to the mushroom kingdom, because they opened it up. Literally, it could have (and should have) been locked up with big warning signs. I could understand Mario breaking in if he felt this was going to be the last stretch to fix the problem. But instead it was a missed opportunity for character growth. They're just two small plumbers who accidently stumble upon a new world while making mistakes... they're essentially worthless. Then they show up in different areas. At this point they could have totally steered into what makes them memorable characters. But instead... it was rushed... and it was another missed opportunity. Luigi being in scary Bowser land was perfect for his character and arc. Literally Luigi's only video game series is Luigi's mansion. Running around scared, fighting off ghosts. They dipped their toes in this, as he wanders around a MANSION, and then he is immediately caught by shy guys, becoming no more than an ancillary character the rest of the time. Locked up in a cage, waiting for help he's not quite sure will ever come. Just a completely wasted opportunity. Mario on the other hand just pops out of nowhere, is saved (or so he thinks) by Toad. And then rushed into meeting the MOST INPORTANT PERSON IN ALL THE LANDS, based solely on... a chance meeting? Toad liking the cut of Mario's jib. Toad constantly tells Mario and everyone else he's his best friend... like why? Why does it matter? He's just some fat plumber they found running around one day. Why would you gloat about that? Instead it would have been really cool if Mario popped out of nowhere, knew nothing about what was going on, and then suddenly had to defend himself from some big monster most people lose to... I don't know... one of those hammer brother thrower guys. That would have been cool. Toad could have seen this, then had a story, and knew Mario was something special (the comic relief could have been Mario got lucky). This could have resulted in Toad introducing Mario to Princess Toadstool, Mario becoming smitten with her, and Princess Toadstool being apprehensive of him, but curious. In doing so, Mario would have had several opportunities to prove his worth to her, and show he's Super Mario. A hero who will save the mushroom kingdom. Instead she sees him, becomes smitten by him (for reasons that make no sense... he's a human I guess?) And instead of pursuing a time delicate meeting she urgently was trying to get to before she saw Mario. She instead spends a WHOLE DAY trying to get him good enough to help her out (when she's already ridiculously awesome) in a dumb montage. Why? With what merit? And if what makes him special is a mushroom, then why not just take literally ANYBODY. It was a plot point that didn't allow the characters to move the story, just circumstances to... happen... and then deal with it. Pretty lame. At that point there was a flurry of missed opportunities one after another. Yoshi is literally seen for like 10 seconds... ahh... dinosaur that eats every bad guy, and poops them out into an egg, or empty shell? Sign me up! Seems pretty useful in a world filled with Goombas. Plus Yoshi is like a big loveable dog. It should have absolutely centered around Yoshi to some extent. Which brings us to Donkey Kong... Mario's original big baddie. But instead of acknowledging this, they simply made him a part of the crew so to speak. And they fight, and they DON'T do classic donkey kong?!?!?!? How cool would it have been if to get their help, they forced Mario to jump up that original obstacle course? Complete with Princess Peach at the top as a dansel in distress, Donkey Kong throwing flaming barrels, and Mario having to jump up through it. I'll tell you how cool it was... really damn cool. Much cooler than Mario beating Donkey Kong as a damn cat. (Which I still don't get entirely by the way, there were 5 power ups, Mario uses 3. After Donkey starts losing it would have been better if he desperately grabbed a power up, then start beating Mario again, only for Mario to grab the last power up, could have been the cape, and then Mario slams into him at full speed like a real damn hero and wins. I mean... it seemed OBVIOUS. But... I guess it's not.) I'll fast forward now (past the blatant let's showcase Mariokart scene... which could have been cooler but was still cool, it was just rushed... again.) And I'll focus on the end (ultimately at that point it was perfectly fine how it progressed.) Mario screws up again, sends this giant bullet into the pipe back home towards Brooklyn, blows up the fabric of time and space, and then sends Bowsers giant battleship crashing into his hometown causing millions if not billions of dollars of damage. AGAIN... MARIO CAUSED THIS. He gets credit because he beat the guy that he sent there in the first place?? Only after him and Luigi touch the invincible star?? It didn't feel like a great finish. (Nevermind all the people who get blown out of their homes in Brooklyn, but don't notice Mario doing any of this, until after he's done beating Bowser). Again... rushed, and lacking an identity. And because the story was so weak, (which is absolutely was), they ruined a great ensemble cast of voice actors (which as far as I'm concerned was about as all star as you could get [minus Will Arnett of course]). And brilliant animators that brought Mario to life... finally! After so many failed attempts. Because of this I can't say it was awful (it was to grand to be awful), but I also can't say it's good, because it came off as blatant cash grab. I give it a solid if unspectacular 6... 6.5 out of 10. The story and writing gets a 2, and everything else deserved a 9. So I just met in the middle kind of. Just wish they had higher standards. Because I watched this once... I'm not the greatest writer of all time, and I was able to pick this thing a part immediately, and make it pretty awesome if I say so myself. Anyway, 6.5 out of 10. Okay.

41:51 LS mark always shits himself when he's lying

$25???? Is that including snacks, gas, and dinner after? I paid $7.50!

RISE OF THE BEASTS MENTIONED 🦍🚬