Okuplok is a map that I want to beat at least once in my doom career. You can't believe how hyped I am about this series. I can´t wait for more videos.
Doom career! hahah, I like that. I just started replaying Final Doom's TNT and Plutonia but making sure to start each level with pistol start and beating each without saving (on Ultra Violence of course). I've never done that before. I think it's the first time I'm actually playing Doom properly in all my life ;p PS now I should go back and do this with all the classic map packs like Memento Mori 1 & 2 and so on. But I don't think I'd ever dare to do this on a map as crazy as Okuplok. It's just too Nuts! See what I did there? heheh.
@@journeytosilius1 I'm doing the same tour. Doom 1, Doom 2, No rest for the living, Master levels, TNT, Plutonia 1, Sigil, 10 maps challenge and now I'm trying Plutonia 2. PL2 is by far the hardst in my opinion. All UVMAX pistol start ofcourse. Good luck on your Journey.
@@ShadyBase awesome! And I need to try no rest for the living. I hear it has really good flow and level design, gameplay-wise. Seeing videos of it it looks a bit basic and oldschool doom 1 mapping style. So I dunno. I'm kinda hesitating. But the rest of this list are all great. Plutonia 1 map 8 I believe it was (starts with you lowering on some water and 2 shotgunners outside a grey building below) was insane. Took me over 7 tries to finish without dying lol. Many trap spots where I'd get murdered including of course the 2 archviles at the end 😂 That was a proper punishing map thus far. I can only imagine what Plutonia 2 has in store 😭😭
wow, I remember watching Decinos playthrough with awe, fascination and pain. What an herculean effort that was. So I must say I look forward to your analysis, findings and skills. Thanks for good entertainment value and especially thanks for taking on this monster challenge!
A 4th strategy is to not trigger the pain elementals. Their linedef trigger ends at a notch in the ledge. Jump the notch. E1M4 (Command Control) allows a variation of this at the blue armor near the start. After taking the elevator up, walking along the ledge triggers a trap. Instead, stand near the edge of the ledge, then walk along the edge, angling a bit to the left. Stop once you can see a narrow slice of the wall below the ledge. Your center, which is what triggers the linedef, is now off the ledge. Correct your heading so you're moving parallel to the edge, then walk forward. The linedef only goes to the edge of the ledge, so you step past it. Meanwhile, you don't fall because the "fall down" logic looks at a square around your center. As long as any part of that square is on the ledge, you don't fall. With two definitions of the player's location, you can get cases where one definition says "no" and the other says "yes". ISTR realizing that the code has at least one other definition, but the details refuse to come back to me.
I thought that was what he was going to suggest when he started talking about the second strategy. It’s cool to hear that non-triggering can actually be accomplished.
this guys voice is heavenly, I hope he talks about map 29 of azazel's second descent at some point, or really anything from that amazingly brutal megawad
I played this blindly a while ago on the PS Vita using PrBoom+. After a few deaths, I managed to get by using what you call the "push" strat. It was more of a matter of punching a hole through the imps using the rockets and advancing slowly. When I reached the top of the staircase and saw that wall of arch-viles, I panicked and ran into the room with the mastermind, which is where I gave up. It took me an hour to get by, and I just saved once at the beginning of the staircase because repeatedly doing all that strafing on tiny analog sticks was giving me hand cramps.
Wow, another great video. Really had a broader level of appeal than the specificity of the subject, tonally I mean. I wouldn't be surprised if you start pulling in non-hardcore-doom-players from the algo with this sort of quality. Grats man, rooting for you.
I just wanna say as someone who has basically never played the original Doom games that this and your speedrun content is some of the most satisfying stuff I've seen on RU-vid. The combination of your skill and your methodical approach/analysis of such a chaotic game makes for a strangely vicarious experience. also it's fun watching demons die by the dozen
@@seanmcbay For some reason the game just puts me on edge, almost like it's a horror game. I dunno why, but I had to call it quits early on into episode 2 because it was just stressing me out too much. Great game for sure, though. Maybe I'll go back to it one day!
Damn, i'd rather call second approach "big ball strategy", as you're likely chilling there under firestorm like no problem xD Overall very nicely explained video, belissimo!
Wow, I wasn't expecting your analysis of Okuplok! Good work, Coin! I'm looking forward for the next parts 💜 My guess about statistics: Push: 40%, 50 hp Hold: 75%, 90 hp Edit: completely missed :)
Really excellent analysis here! I like your use of statistics to argue for and against multiple strategies, showing that it isn't always a game of finding the one true intended strategy when it comes to challenge maps.
Well this was great, talking about these tactics and combat puzzles is certainly more interesting then playing the default doom levels on nightmare bore trend thats going around! Thank you for this, must have been a bunch of work. I guessed Push strat because less time to mess up usually helps me...
5:53 - When you walk in the wrong neighborhood (true story) 😳 excellent analysis Master Coin 👏 I'll be paying close attention to these videos 👀 I haven't had yet the patience to sit through this monstrosity haha I can only imagine how many many hours it took you to: watch TAS play throughs, take notes practice, dying, , perform your runs, 🚀 to the face, record and edit 😅👌
This is what I needed. I played okuplok a thousand times but I mostly give up at the third last fight (iirc). You know, that one in the lava cave, in the center is a hill with many revenants and archviles, while an army of hell knights pours in from another smaller cave (guarded by more archviles) and cacos emerge from above. Never made it past the first minutes of this fight without a idbeholdv cheat. I saw many videos but I had to admit that my skill simply isn't enough to manage this fight. The remaining two fights aren't that bad for some reason. I'm very excited for this series!
This was interesting! One problem with the push strategy is that when you need to return to the cliff for rockets after finishing the spider mastermind/revenant/baron fight, all the surviving imps will block your path, and because of the nearby archviles you can't just let them flood in and run past them. If you have (way too much) patience you can pretty safely punch the imps and even pain elementals through the bars, but the hold strategy probably spares time over all.
You're right. This is actually covered in 2nd video of this series, which mentions how to do the cleanup of this first fight. Unfortunately the hold strategy does not save much time because you'll still only carry 100 rockets into the next fight, and you still leave a crap ton of Imps alive. Anyway, more on this in the next chapter ;)
Really enjoyed this, there's very little "strategy" content about doom and I think this should help more casual players understand how to make their own strategies when faced against a difficult fight. It is not "just get lucky" :)
If you do not count Plutonia map 32, this was the first slaughter map I ever played. It took me several days and a very large number of deaths and an even larger number of saves and loads to get through. I cannot wait for more!
"Most players take over 8 hours to beat the map, I'm going to help, and will explain how to beat the map" *11 minute video* Oooooooooo gooooodie, it's gunna be a series! :D
Looking forward to multiplying all individual success rates together. Expected number of attempts for single-segment run will probably be in the billions.
Very interesting! Really keen to see the updates to the next fights. This is broken down and described very nicely! Great video! If this series can mentor me to completing Okuplok without mid fight saves it will be the greatest accomplishment this world has every known! Thanks!
Subscribed and patiently waiting for more. Seriously man, this is amazing and I will watch each video in this series several times throughout my life. Please keep it up 😊
I feel like the hold strategy is a bit more dangerous as well because of the wayward imp fireballs once the ones up front start infighting with the Mancubi. A bit easier to dodge them when you know most of them will be targeting you. It’s an interesting strategy though! Looking forward to this series! You won’t learn 100% of the strats you don’t try! Gretzky would have said that if he were a speedrunner 🤷♂️
I've often wanted to have a go at the madness that is Okuplok, but my skills have always held me back. I don't reckon I'd survive for very long after the imp staircase, even if I manage the staircase quite well
I had a feeling Push was going to win, and the way you led up the answer made me more certain lol. Hold seems like one of those boss cheeses that's harder to pull off than actually beating the boss. But it does seem like good practice for dodging a wall of mancubus like that Anyway I got sad when the video ended and I am hype for the next parts!
It's a difficult one to choose which would be the best choice. I did think the Hold strategy would have the most success as you aren't dealing with Pain Elementals, Lost Souls AND Imps After seeing the results, you were right I was surprised. Push does make more sense when I think about it as it will get you up the stairs faster Whenever I watch these slaughter maps though I do tend to think that most aren't designed to be speedran in multiple categories, they seem to just be designed for Max play only. I don't think it would be possible to UV Speed this map for instance
Very nice analysis man :). I kinda find out the "hold" strategy by accident when I was playing this and got somehow single segment until the first pinky wave (the fight just before the marble area). Okuplok would still take a life time to UV-Max if nobody find a way to deal with the rev corridor, preferably cheesing it.
You will have a lot of work if you want to cover whole Okuplok. Very detailed, I love it (speaking of dying from the Super Mario Doom part at the beginning). Good content, I fear you cannot make as much videos as needed for this map
This has probably been said already, but you can skip the trigger linedef by jumping the right hand side of the step. That's both PUSH and HOLD in essence, aka the PULD strategy.
Ok I ran a bunch of tests. Very interesting strategy. Here are the averages over 20 runs: Exit HP = 75, lower than PUSH, higher than HOLD. I felt a lot of control over the fight with this strategy. The average exit HP is above the HOLD strategy which looks very promissing. However... Survivability = 80%, lower than PUSH and HOLD. Sometimes I failed the jump and fell down (especially when I take damage by a random fireball that PUSHES me just before the jump). Also, sometimes after doing the jump you get 2 or 3 revenant rockets from below following you to the corner and you have no space to dodge them; which means taking massive damage or dying. But this strategy is the one that wastes the least ammo, and it's also the fastest because it greatly accelerates the "cleanup" that you need to do after the 2nd fight. So GGs. This is pretty good strategy right here. It's a pity I didn't remember this strategy before making the video because 80% survival rate is pretty good so it would definitely have made the final cut! I added this strategy to the description of the video.
@@coincident Nice job! 80% is probably fine for something that happens a minute or so into the run. I guess it might be useful if ammo is ever an issue, but I kinda doubt it would be.
I reckon push strategy would be the most optimal. Even by leaving imps alive behind you they could serve to catch Mancubi fireballs in those situations where you weren't immediately able to advance. Imp meat shield if you will
That’s why I like RU-vid. A video recommended about one of the most difficult maps in the world. Fun trivia one to i you ask. Now I can say at parties; do you know what the most difficult map in the world is? ‘Okuplok’. And everybody will admire me.
But then another doomer at the party will say: "No, the hardest map set is dimensions!" And another doomer will be like: "No way, the hardest map set is chillax!" And finally you'll settle your differences with a trial by deathmatch. Good times.
@@coincident haha wells said! Would be cool if you could make more of the analyze video’s, if you could, make them longer. I don’t mind if you over-analyze. It’s awesome to watch.
I assumed the Push survival rate being much higher, because it has consistency in the movement. That backtracking is slow and makes oncoming projectiles in my opinion less predictable because of the mancubi shooting as well which makes you more nervous.
I hear Last Ninja 2 music in the background. I'll never forget it as I had the Atari ST version, so it could only play the 1 track throughout the whole game!
My strat based on prior experience - Step 1:fall off the platforms about 15 times before making it to the rocket launcher. Quick save immediately. Step 2:headbutt imps imps and fireballs for an hour before finally reaching the viles and Pele’s. Quit to desktop.
Doom's hardest map is quite a wild title, difficulty isn't really all in enemy count, or type of enemy, it's how effectively you can kill that enemy with the tools provided, such as terrain, weapons, ammo, and health.
Everyone plays Doom better then me, and I love watching them do it. This is a good map to watch a playthrough of,,, and now, I've discovered Profane Promiseland,, oof. And I don't even have the means to play either. I'm going to really enjoy this series.
Glorious, this map is pure insanity that i probably will never attempt until I go through a catalogue of other wads first. Fight a dog first before you fight Cerberus would be my reasoning.
I played for years Quake Team Fortress and for years Team Fortress 2, in both as soldier and in the attack most of the game. I would easily pass through this simply because a few concepts I already have ingrained in my brain: meat shielding and rocket splash damage.The Imps are your meat shield, but you cut through them with the best possible use of splash damage... this is how you attack in Quake Team Fortress, where there is not friendly fire but the team do block shots
Looking forward to it. However as I have made two tas runs of this map one without keyframes and one with, I think I'm officially done with this map. Strategically you want to skip the second fight as quickly as possible and push into the third fight to push back the mancs. You'll run out of rockets really quickly if you don't.
Hey Erik! I've been watching one of your TASes to study for these videos, but to be honest I feel that the strategy of leaving past the 2nd fight is not very survivable in a non-TAS situation, especially with limited saves. There are some other ways to solve the ammo problem though.
I'm surprise that hold strategy is equally effective compared to push, because it's much more time to get shot and all the safety drowns in the number of possible hazardous situations. Depends on the player's temper i guess
Babe wake up, new Coincident guide just dropped! Since all difficulties have the same thing placements, would you consider ITYTD a good starter to dip one's toes and get to know the map and how it flows? Or would it create bad habits?
interesting video :) actually I didnt really try this level much, but I reached the MM quite easily. maybe I got blasted after mancubus area once... but seeing there's so much left I kinda let it be and waited zero's and oku's demos to it :P
