Dr. Lee Cronin vs Dr. James Tour Debate at Harvard Cambridge Faculty Roundtable the Origin of Life 

Dr. Tour's argument is based on chemistry. Dr. Cronin's argument is based on optimism.

Lee said a lot without saying much at all. James's presentation was very clear and actionable.

58 years years ago, my high school biology teacher, who quite impressed me, insisted enthusiastically that life in the lab would happen in 5 years, 10 max. I suppose optimism is very important to do science, but now I see there were many more hidden variables than he (or I ) thought. But then, that’s exactly what my dad, with his 8th grade education, told me: “People have no idea of the complexity of life.”

I watched this discussion with great interest ... right up until Dr. Cronin was about 15 minutes into his turn. Dr. Tour predicted what Dr. Cronin would do ... and was 100% correct. Cronin had absolutely nothing to say that would refute anything Tour put forth. If Dr. Cronin is one of the top OOL researchers ... then this scientific decipline is in deep trouble ... because they have nothing but lies and superflorous rhetoric. Congratulations Dr. Tour, you did what you said you would do.

Professor Tour did a marvelous job! Seven on one and he smokes them! Jesus was surely with him tonight! Praise God!

Even if life was "discovered" in a laboratory it still doesn't ultimately answer the question of life's origin on Earth because one occurred in artificial, near perfect conditions while the other occured in prebiotic, natural conditions. That being said, Tour stated he predicted that Cronin would not answer three specific things, and ultimately he did not. Cronin basically gave a synopsis of materialism, and seemed to be begging or pleading for people to take his word for it that evolution and blind, deaf, random, mindless processes accounts for everything. Furthermore he insists, basically, that critiques and criticism no matter how damaging to origin of life research ought to be stopped because it's more beneficial to work together to solve problems. Essentially he side stepped the entire issue and problems altogether by asking/begging Tour and others to "play nice" because it makes Cronin and the materialists look like they know as much as the next person. The magic wand of time, apparently, solves all issues and problems in the world of materialists when Tour has pointed out numerous times that time is the enemy of chemistry. The longer time goes on the more chemicals decompose, become useless, etc producing nothing substantial. I'm not even a third of the way in and Cronin basically lost the debate in a matter of moments when he said he wasn't going to debate the chemistry and instead wanted to make a lecture why he assumes things happened the way it did, and why he does what he does. Conclusion? As Christians we have nothing to fear from these people at all. Farina was a character assassin, and Cronin sheepishly avoided the pinpoint issues to make life possible to begin with. 👍 Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all

LOL! Watch this from anyone else's POV where Tour looks like a fool.

So, they basically disagree on how far humanity is from the answer to the Origin of Life question, but fundamentally agree about the fact that science should continue it's process.

I admire Dr. Cronin for engaging with Dr. Tour. I agree with Dr. Tour that we are far from understanding OOL.

Thank You Sir....! It's so beautiful to hear from you in a public meeting Standing for Jesus in part of science stands to God's side.

Let’s just say Dr Tour had a big t bone steak for dinner. Cronin ordered a word salad. This was a smack down of epic proportions. Jim Tour stated facts and results and real world problems. Cronin quoted from the book The Power of Positive Thinking.

Trying to make sense of James saying that our knowledge of the cell keeps expanding, but the cell's not evolving, and therefore we'll never know everything about cells. Huh?

"Materialism" is an ideology just like any other belief. Props to Cronin for being open to discussing this topic with Tour. Happy Holidays to All.

It's weird. The more I listen to these guys talk amongst each other it's like you can actually see how these imaginary theories are born. They talk so much in the relm of the unseen an unobserved but talk as its fact and listening to them I can actually see how hard it is for a common person to not be able to see this or hear this correctly. James Tour is very important to hear in the science community because he keeps other scientists in check and to stay in reality.

Thank you brother James for clear and concise facts. I tried to listen to Lee but i only managed five minutes or so, he started talking about cosmology and seeing a grown man with a hairband was very distracting! Whats the answer to all this.... its very simple God creates life, how do we know? because it is a miracle, James clearly shows how impossible it is for us to even do some basic building block type problems. I was agnostic for 50 odd years but God woke me up and started showing me just how miraculous our world is I pray many more will wake up and receive Gods free unearned gift of salvation through his son Jesus Christ.

"NO it's NOT POSSIBLE, we will NEVER KNOW" ..... LATER ON...... "YES WE WILL FIGURE IT OUT, OH LORD THAT'S HOW YOU DID IT"

That was the best showcase of OOL research's fundamental chemical problems that James has ever put together (yes, Ive pretty much heard them all!). As predicted Lee did not address any of the challenges put to him, opting to obfuscate and redirect to a fairly infantile "we shouldn't shout at each other" position. This was his opportunity to stand up for his discipline, push back with REAL science and showcase the progress the field has made. Unfortunately he was so theoretically minded he was of no scientific use.

Reality check with Dr. Tour was quite a success 💘 You have to respect Lee for agreeing to discuss this, well done Lee. 🍓 You also have to admit that despite what Lee says he is pushing natural explanation rather than doing pure science, whether he sees it consciously or not that is what he is doing. Natural explanation is an axiom of materialistic ideology, a world view that denies certain principles of life such as consciousness, mind, energy beyond material level, purpose, design, direction, laws that guide the sustainability of life, physical realm is all there is and so on. One of their primal claim that it can be explained via material means alone without going beyond material physical realm. For example, Lee believes that he can explain that complex design and information arise from matter itself rather than being a priory to material phenomenon, it can be cell, an eye or a wing to fly and of course to a human body and anything else you can see in a physical material world. 🍓 Science shouldn't make claims it has no answer to, this is why its science and not a philosophy class, in a philosophy you are allowed to make bold claims without any evidence. Science is to test such bold claims and conclude if such bold ideas have any reality at all. This is what happened to the bold claim "Earth is the center of the universe". Scientific method of observation debunked it. It is not a role of scientists to go around and preach philosophy of natural explanation or for that matter creation worldview. This has nothing to do with science. Person who debunked "Earth is the center of the universe" believed in God but had no issue to use science as intended. There is no conflict between the two. If evidence says one thing you accept this thing, you do not do what Catholic church was doing - discarding it because it did not fit their worldview on life. 🍓 Again respect to Lee for speaking, however James clearly said "we do not know now" and Lee was saying "we will solve it one day" but my dear Lee you do not know now do you? You cannot answer the questions that were postulated to you by James - can you? Who cares about the future - right now the answer is that you know not and making bold claims that its natural process without demonstrating natural process, without answering any of the crucial questions on HOW it happens is not doing science - this is the end of the road. If you cannot do it, your premise that it's natural process is FALSE. otherwise you would go to the board and draw every answer on every question - but you cant, not even to 1 question. Everything else is just being dishonest and lying to one self. What you personally think is irrelevant, what matters is scientific answer to the problem. That claim that abiogenesis knows how natural process gives birth to organic life such as a human being is simply a scam, a lie a dishonest claim - pick your words. 🍓 On a more personal rant note so to speak. How many chemical answers Lee gave on James' questions? 49:17 I hope its quite obvious that Lee was talking philosophy and his personal opinion during his statement, had 0 science data discussed in it. Again I love you Lee for speaking but - SHOW ME THE CHEMSITRY 🙂 I have 0 interest in your thoughts, I want to see scientific data and nothing else of how you "solved" via natural process the problems without using consciousness, mind, information, energy and many many other nuances of how chemistry works, how biological life works. Again I do not care about "interesting paper" that spark the discussion, you claim natural process SHOW ME THE CHESMISTRY how its done so that I can dismiss Conscious Creation because you claim its false premise to consider. Lee, I'm a small person and I want only chemistry from you - nothing else. You are a scientists right? SHOW ME THE SCIENCE. James showed me the science why its imposable - you claim he is wrong ,show me the science how its possible! 🍓 Now I want to pick on Lee intentionally, recall a moment when he was talking about a watch maker example, and he said it requires information to evolve for a complex watch over time - clearly trying to use this example to support mindless evolution - however, where does this information exist? In the mind is it not? Does it not require consciousness to interpret this information, apply and make a better watch? You have books with data - but is it information? Or just small characters in the book that mean nothing until conscious mind comes to interpret it INTO information to make use of it to do something? Just like James once said, Lee is a hidden creationist, he just doesn't know it yet. 🤭 I love Lee, he is a good guy and honest about his beliefs and position, I wish him well with playing Lego - how can you not respect this? ♥ And by the way if you go around atheist channels they absolutely despise and discard Lego analogy, well tell it to Lee Cronin who uses it in science. 🌷 Thank you James, Lee, organizers and people behind the production to make this talk happen. Table discussion was 10/10 for me for many reasons. 🐧Penguins marching on as life goes on in eternity of life... (End's music plays)

A wise man avoids an argument he cannot win. Cronin knew he could not win this argument - at least he agreed to participate - so he wisely chose a different form of presentation with, obviously, a different objective.

I've posted a couple times already, so last one: It struck me odd that L. Cronin's final remarks included citing that science and religion should be separate circles that almost but never touch and it upsets him that one is used as arguments for the other. If he is a Christian (as I think he claims, I could be wrong) then it seems he refutes his own faith because if God of the Bible really does exist and really created the universe, then necessarily we cannot separate God from His creation (nor the study of His creation). Read the following quote several times, closely, “If naturalism were true then all thoughts whatever would be wholly the result of irrational causes. It cuts its own throat.” --C. S. Lewis (former atheist). This is true whether one believes in God or not, and we cannot even have a coherent thought if our mind was not created with the intended ability for such capacity; there's no justification for believing such is possible if we assume naturalistic processes. Further, from a Biblical world view, it is entirely possible (and written) that God does work miracles and this does not always mean He uses natural means. Did Jesus send the leper to a modern-day doctor, did he send the lame man to get physical therapy, did he send the blind man to get eye surgery that is beyond what we are even capable of today? No! Yet, the scientists always expect a breadcrumb trail of artifacts from natural processes will be left behind... Seems to be a limited view, like saying 2 + ? = 5 and I keep looking at 1, 2, 4, 5, etc..., never accepting 3 as an answer. 🤷‍♂🤷‍♂

I like how some of the other people at the table criticized Dr. Tour for being “animated” and “passionate” in his argument, and therefore he must have an alternative agenda. Yet, there was quite a lot of passion and emotion from these very same people when discussing their work…

1-Thank God this was not another fiasco like the debate with Dave (pure bigotry, insults and poor science from Farina). This time everything was civil. Good atmosphere. 2-As expected, there was not even an attempt to refute Tour. Lee Cronin now projects himself as the conciliator who only seeks progress and not confrontation. Definitely a better stance than Dave's bigotry. 3-Tour made a good opening although very firm in contrast to Cronin's soft sermon type opening. 4-The dinner talk was interesting but basically they are people who assume naturalism without questioning. They may assume naturalism on blind faith but any theistic implication is "god of the gaps" and stuff like that. Very polite and civil for that matter. They are simply not very prepared for these topics, I felt they were philosophically very naive even though they are very cultured people. 5-Except for the opening of Tour, the rest was basically a philosophical discussion (not scientific). It's not bad but I point it out because many people who believe they are doing science but do philosophy almost without realizing it. 6-Round table: more of the same. Tour needs to train more on philosophical responses since practically everything that comes out of this table is philosophical and easy for a theist to respond to. I would have liked someone like Stephen Meyer to be on that round table for these aspects. 7-No one ever questions Tour about chemistry. His position remains unchallenged. 8-Actually, if this discussion had not happened, not much would have been lost. There was almost zero scientific discussion and the philosophical part is too naive to be of much use. The effort is appreciated and I personally enjoyed it.

Imo, all Jim is asking is for the OOL scientists to be honest with the public and admit "we don't have this solved yet."

Always great seeing Tour sit in silence while intelligent scientists who actually know what they're talking about converse about the science of OOL.

So Lee agrees there are huge challenges with OOL research. What he refers to as "constraints". The point then comes to what Dr. Tour has been hammering on: "We have no clue..." at least for now. The whole point is for origin of life researchers to come clean and STOP DECEIVING THE WORLD. By that, I agree that Dr. Tour has indeed opened my eyes and I see the humility in Lee's speech. Thank you Dr. Tour for challenging them. I am sure if there was none, they would have still gone about with pride and "lies" and would never have admitted these, at least to the ordinary public.

This debate was so interesting, and there are many points I would like to pick at, but I want to bite back at a particular assertion Lee Cronin made and see if anyone else has had the same experience. When Lee talked about how dower, pessimistic, or mean spirited Tour was being by speaking on problems OoL research, that by explaining these problems it discourages scientists from seeing said problems as an opportunity to advance. I completely disagree with Lee’s assessment here. When Tour speaks about the obstacles OoL researchers face, I have never been so intrigued and interested in chemistry in my life. The detailed, scientific analysis of proteins, glucose, lipids, and everything else is so freaking enamoring. Heck, I even bought an introductory book on chemistry because of Tour’s talks. He has ignited a love scientific language I have never had before. Ironically though, despite this being stupidly framed as a religion vs. science type debate, Lee sounded more like a street preacher instead of a scientist (I am agnostic btw). Tour’s scientific and empirical presentation captured me way more than Lee’s vague ramblings about how the universe is big and a huge discovery is just around the corner. It simply reeks of idealism; lacking substance. Does anyone feel the same way I do? That science has been made more interesting, beautiful even, when James Tour talks about it than when Lee Cronin does.

Exaggerating their accomplishments is what keeps getting them funding . They have to keep saying it's just around the corner, if they say anything else who would want to give the money to do their research

Some of the central themes about abiogenesis that Dave was talking about in the debate I like how James sat in silence for those😆

I feel sorry for Lee Cronin actually. He seems like a good honest guy and is trying to solve it and at least he admits publicly we don't know

A brilliant light sitting at a table of shapeshifters. Im 57 year old Christian. I have never seen another Christian with a fraction of the courage and conviction you do. Thanks Dr. Tour for giving me the courage to talk about Jesus amongst non believers.

Let's remember that tour lost his most reasonable argument "Origin of life research is a scam " 😂 he looks very childish while screaming on the stage 😒

Well done Dr. James T. You said what you needed and it was clearly done. Somebody should've asked him a question about the chemistry in place, but no everybody just made personal critics instead of talking about the real problem which is the theory it self. If Cronin would've been on the side of creationism, all of the hypocrite blinds would be offending him. So they ignore how he didnt even get into the biochemistry topics that really matter.

I found Dr. Cronin's arguments verging on dishonest and his belief in natural selection as a magical trick driving the emergence of ever more complex structures pure science-fiction; and when very gently pressed for some specific answers cries 'foul' and cites the science's right to explore ideas which by proven fallacious bring us closer to the truth. On the other hand Dr. Tour clearly ever more admires and awes Creator when discovering how much more complicated and wonderful life in the material world is than previously thought

Dr. Lee arguments were 1. We don't know & 2. God (watchmaker Evolved) 3.Let's not focus on the origin of parts but the assembly of those parts. This was a scientific presentation to a room of scientists. This was dinner an illusionist.

Modern scientists are weaving a delicate fabric made of pure chance, unguided evolution, survival of the fittest, that only those intellectually endowed can see. Those who lack that intellectual gift, do not see the beauty an elegance of that tender fabric. To them it is totally invisible. The emperor is naked! - shouts Dr. Tour. But the intellectually endowed scientists do not hear that cry and keep worshiping the beauty of invisible fabric.

Tour embarrassed himself lol the whole room was laughing at him

I am pleased to see two gentlemen having a respectful and honest discussion. I think Dr. Kronin shot himself in the foot, stating that our textbooks contain no longer valid and no longer accepted theories and models, trying to defend the primordial soup still to be found in science books. That is exactly what Dr. Tour is keep on talking about. Those theories and models should be presented clearly and solely as Theories and Ideas to consider.

I love doctor Tours passion. People often misunderstand his passionate excitability as angry gesturing.Dr. Tour is well qualified to understand the origins of life science. What a great scientist and christian. Holding false claims of evolutionary science to account is long over due.

The knowledge with wisdom gives you more leverage in life. Anyway, it will never ever lead to arrogance....🎉

Molecules don't move toward life. There is always a human designer trying to push them along toward it; abiogenesis researchers (human designers) try to force reaction chemistry toward life, but it doesn't work. And as per Professor James Tour, prebiotic reaction chemistry always fights against the path that moves toward life. The primordial soup model is dead-on-arrival... /Abiogenesis lies outside the domain of science.

Nick Lane did an interview this week regarding the origin of life and what he says is especially relevant to Dr. Tour's effort to educate the public. It is a two hour interview but the most relevant discussion is in the first forty minutes.

When asked how he would spend 50 billion for ool research, Dr. Tour said, we should decide democratically. Dr. Cronin said, I would funnel it into my new pet project, assembly theory. Amazing

This was fascinating!

I’ve gotta say, if that Woman sassed Me the Way she did You Dr. Tour, and the way she continually interrupted You… The comment after You had talked about Your Good Marriage in the close, out of her… That shows how heated and frazzled she Was… You can tell that You did get under the Atheists’ skin there that Night! Congratulations, Dr. Tour! Stay Salty! They’re just being psychologically repressive toward You, and were attempting to project their own Anger onto You, these Emotions and defensive reactions of theirs prove they are the ones that were “angry,” not You… The way she lashed out at You, and the Ways that Dr. Leroy Cronin “Straw-Manned” Your position, and interrupted You whenever You tried to actually explain Your position… They can only hide behind their repressions so long… What’s real, is that Muppet predicted he’d have “Created Life” by 2013 to the General Public: he was disingenuous, and You apparently have identified the problem with the General Publics’ Misconceptions surrounding Scientific Research as a Whole! 🏆

I like how the woman (administrator?) doesnt care if we're getting nearer or further away from ever discovering the origin of life and instead just wants to know the best way to fill out her grant application for $50 billion.

I just listened to the debate. For as smart as Lee Cronin is supposed to be he did not answer one question asked by James Tour. I am simply amazed, Lee Cronin's response seems as though he has no scientific education at all.

It’s hard to believe that all living organisms were created through evolution and selection. The complexity and perfection of every living thing points to something much grander our brains cannot understand. Maybe some day.

We don't have any problem with your exuberance to create life. ...but when the smoke clears, it's still sitting there: your portrayal to the world that "we are at the door"!! - when you are nowhere close.

Jim Tour is a warm passionate communicator - Lee Cronin and the stone faced female physicist beside him, heavens are they humourless.

Interesting stuff, like listening to Lee Cronin, not much science in his arguments interesting none the less (big ideas not much substance), Jim Tours clearly bases his arguments on science. Its clear Jim Tours motivation is the search for truth.

@1:43:17 Dr. Cronin makes a great point about cooperation between chemists. We need to work together like the physicists do. ❤

This is one of the funniest things I have watched since Dr Tours debate with Dave. I don't think anyone is complaining about another event where James makes a mockery of himself.

Abracadabra? I'm sorry. Dr. Tour is so respectful and even chivalrous and kind and I believe he has been terribly mischaracterized. Dr. Tour is not angry and thats incorrect. Thank you Dr. Tour, I learned even more tonight as I do every time I hear you speak and I think I heard Lee give you a back hand compliment when he said 'we've learned something new'. God bless you.

I love your willingness to ask the tough questions Dr. Tour! Questions are the basis of all good science. Thank you for being the agitator to help get science back on track!!

As a French major and not a chemist, I see that Dr. Cronin prefers imagination to explanation. His enthusiasm is laudable but Dr. Tour’s questions are incisive and illuminate how a scientist thinks critically.

Lastly, I don't think Lee addressed any of Jim's criticisms. His message was that we need to continue doing science... Duh. Not very profound. He consistently pointed to the outside forces already present in governing life but not what governs the outside forces. Jim's main message is that these scientists are misleading the public either by omission, lack of clarity or by intention. Or maybe even hubris. That they don't have the answers and they are further away from them than when they started. Either way, the public has a deeply flawed understanding of what we think we or they know. I think the fact that we can't create life with intention, with all our tools and knowledge, speaks volumes to undermine the idea that nature did it randomly. A tornado will NEVER sweep through an auto plant and assemble a functioning car with paint, electronics, labels, fuel and especially the ability to replicate. Spitting 1s and 0s into a program will never generate useful code. Changing random 0s and 1s will never generate new functions not to mention having them in the right place of the code as to not break the order things need to happen. To believe this all happened by chance is to me equally as much a system of faith as the alternative. This is a quest to extinguish the idea of a creator more than anything. And I'm coming at this as someone who doesn't believe. I'm reminded of the saying: Science progresses one funeral at a time.

Well done, Dr. Tour! 🙏

My understanding of this conversation is that Cronin is not really arguing with Tour's point that there are still many unknowns to solve before possibly simulating life, but he disagrees with his accusatory approach. In my opinion, the thin-skinnedness of the scientists in this event was annoying. I found Tour pointed, but not overly aggressive, and the time spent joking about him being "mean" was a waste. Overall, I felt that Cronin spent his time trying to defend his materialist ideology, rather than addressing the five points Tour created this whole event to address, which was a big letdown. I see Tour's main mission as two points: 1) the scientific community doesn't actually have answers to the origin of life and cannot replicate it, and 2) the scientific community has and continues to falsely announce to the public that they do and can, which is a big problem of genuineness. Cronin's response to this is essentially to say Tour challenging these scientists is mean and unhelpful to the scientific community, and that even though they indeed don't have the answers, he believes they will one day, which Tour agrees with. How is that an answer? Am I missing something here?

Cronin didn't necessarily disagree with Tour's points, he just didn't like the way he said them. 😁

I have to agree with Dr Tour about the fact that we are teaching children theories and calling them facts.

Dr. Tour. I am so sorry that you have to be in these circles. The pridefulness is very hard to stomach. You are a saint my brother

So Lee was just trying to say don't be too hard on us,we just want to be seen as cool guys who solve origin of life😁

Jim's opening absolutely smashed it!

Ok. I had to stop when James stated that the Babolyonians came up with the primordial soup model along with their gods? I am a chemist and this is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard uttered from a fellow scientists mouth. What are you talking about James?

Dr. Tour your a great inspiration to me. These people will never get it. Like Cronin said. "I dont know your audience"

Dr. Tour - Factual. Dr. Cronin - Philosophical. Cronin took a different direction because he knows Dr. Tour is correct in all the science. Appreciate Cronin showing up unlike the others, though. Interesting that the panel gets personal as opposed to keeping with science.

1. Dr. Cronin was brave and came and he was heavily criticized. 2. Dr. Tour does open himself to the accusation of passionate/angry, but if you interact with him, you see a humility. 3. Dr. Tour is correct on the chemistry. 4. Dr. Cronin doesn’t seem be able to articulate his ideas as well as he should be able to. 5. Assembly Theory is a mathematical tool used to detect the end products of life. The tool does this well, as seen in the Nature paper. 6. Dr. Cronin also conflates nonlife and nonliving molecules with speech about living organisms. The use of the word select is difficult to understand until you drowned it in abiotic chemistry and it there means a propensity to continue to exist. Saying molecules self-replicate is also more biological talk that is conflated. SOME molecules can self-replicate or at least promote their formation. He doesn’t say which molecules nor under what circumstances and this conflates the ideas. 7. Dr. Tour was correct no chemistry was presented. 8. Dr. Cronin was correct NOT to present chemistry because his current work is more about information and not chemistry. He is using chemistry to gain information the allows him to predict if the origin of the molecule was biological or not. He then uses data that only he has to speak as if we also have that data and confuses us all.

"Time" still requires a "Mechanism" for Abiogenesis to occur. "Selection" as a material mechanism has never been observed in nature or experimentally demonstrated to cause atoms and molecules to form into DNA / RNA.

The more and more you pay attention to Lee Cronin the more you can see Jim Tour is absolutely right. Lee Cronin is interested in funding for his experiments. This guy is talking about observational science at all and up fronts has given up a basically said we don't know. But some how Aaron Raa and professor Dave has the problem solved. Especially Aaron Ra. Dave gave in a bit after the debate half way

In light of Tour’s 60 day challenge, what’s more reasonable.....belief in abiogenesis or intelligent causation? I propose Jim has greatly diminished any basis for rational belief in abiogenesis....and here’s why. Consider the millions of things we encounter in our daily life that exhibit some level of engineering ( houses, cars, appliances....), and for which we know for certain how they came to be. It turns out virtually all such things are the product of a mind at work. There are literally no exceptions to this rule that anyone can point to. Moreover this state of affairs makes perfect sense to virtually everyone. Because we all clearly perceive that intelligence or understanding is essential for the production of such things. Therefore when we encounter engineering marvels that greatly exceeds anything our minds can produce ( such as cells). It’s eminently reasonable to infer a mind at work that’s much more fertile than our own. For if we clearly see this necessity for things like cars....then all the more so for things radically more complex ( even though the cause is not visible to us). No rational person can deny the sound logic of all this. In light of all the above, no one can rationally accept a naturalistic explanation for cells UNLESS he has solid evidence that such a thing is even possible. Consequently this is why I believe Tour’s challenge has exposed the unreasonableness of abiogenesis. For it’s now clear there’s no evidence that even the mere building blocks of cells can form by a natural process. And even if there was.... that’s the easy part. Arranging those parts into a functional cell is a task near infinitely more difficult !!! Therefore at this stage of the game, it’s simply not reasonable to confidently assert that cells are the product of natural causes. Of course your free to believe that evidence may someday be found. But your not free to suggest that all who feel differently are irrational Bible thumpers !!! Because at this stage of the game, they hold a much more rational position than you. I should also add for those who may complain this is not evidence for God. That there are only two possibilities to explain the existence of cells. Thus there’s an inverse relationship between the competing views. Therefore if it appears very unlikely that cells can form through a natural process. Then by default it’s very likely they’re the product of a mind !!!

Lee : "I just wish people would point out the issues with our work, why this or that isnt right, we'll talk it over and move forward, this is how science should be done" Dr Tour points out the issues with Lee's research and arranges a dialogue.... Lee : Jim is being mean to me.

For me it takes a universe more of faith for me to believe in the primordial soup than to believe in a supernatural creator who is outside time, space and matter.

Lee Cronins critique of Tours demeanor seems to be a bit odd. Tour isn't yelling or being rude. He does get animated but that stems from his passion for this very sensitive topic. If Lee has a problem with Tours attitude, I'm really curious to know what he thinks about Prof. Dave's attitude? Or people like Ra, Dillahunty, etc. There is nothing wrong with being passionate and letting that show in a monologue or discussion. It just seems disingenuous for Cronin to harp on Tour about that.

I'm reading a book on RNA right now. Dr Tour is putting into words what I as a layperson was thinking. As we learn more, we learn how little we actually know.

As a young person still in high school, I'm not going to lie and say that I understood all the chemistry Dr. Tour presented. Despite this it is very clear to me that Dr. Tour presented facts, while Dr. Cronin presented philosophy and optimism. Because of this I am inclined to side with Dr. Tour.

Many of the people at the round table appeared to be in their feelings. They weren't focused on the questions of origin, but rather on how they FELT about how you conducted your arguments. I had a hard time determining whether that was a debate technique to change the topic or they were being overly emotional...BOTH?

I find it frustrating when people confuse my passion for aggression so I empathise with you, Dr. Tour. It’s quite a balancing act! Thanks for the video and the work that you do. In Jesus Christ’s name, God bless 🙏

Dear Dr Cronin: No one is against scientific research. What we insist on is that you don’t make claims that are NOT proven by research. It is absolutely true that you DO NOT know how life began… if you did, you would already have done it in your laboratory. You have not… and you are highly unlikely to do so in your lifetime… IF it can be done at all.

Dr Lee. Going in circles.

Many thumbs up and blessing to Dr Tour for clearing systematic decieving mechanism of science. So so proud of you for saying you love Jesus in the middle of that.

James was asked SEVERAL times during the meal if he thinks natural or supernatural processes caused life, he did not answer these questions at all... I wonder why

First issue I have with Tour's side of things...his issue with complexity,. Complexity is an inevitable consequence of the laws of thermodynamics. Systems seem obviously to move from high energy and low complexity, through median energy and high complexity, and then to Low energy and low complexity. Complexity vs Chaos is in many ways just the boundary of what can be mapped by limited human minds and their technology. I.e.we cant find the damn butterfly and stop it causing storms. and Storms exist in equilibrium until the energy driving them dissipates. Homeostasis is a description of how this applies to longer lived systems like organisms and particularly their ecosystems. I.E. 'Complex systems on the edge of chaos. nested inside each other.

1:01:30 These objects were "fabricated" by "human engineers" ... "everything you look around you is a product of evolution and selection". Many may conclude that everything you see around you is a product of Mind / Consciousness / Intelligence.

I can't help but to see Lee as a man desperately trying to save a sinking ship.

Selection implies choice and a mind if you will...

As he reprimands Dr. Tour for his exuberance, Cronin calls him ludicrous.

I listen to Dr. Tours videos all the time. Nothing about his tone on a regular basis is offensive. He’s just a passionate guy & he gets fired up about false claims. Once every blue moon he has to watch his tone but he is man of character overall without a doubt. I’m dumbfounded about what some of these people are talking about. I do hope moving forward they connect & hear him out even further. James has so much to offer.. He deserves more respect. He was talked to as if his motive is to tear people down & that is so so so far from the truth. All the while some of them made comment after comment trying to tear to him down like they had the right to.. Like it was nothing to criticize his character. 😭 I’m hoping they are simply blind & know not what they do. Let’s pray for our brother James as he maneuvers such a unique calling.

Why do scientists try to explain God out of science? *They keep dancing around in circles and avoiding putting God in His place of honour as the Creator.* Jesus started this whole thing we call Creation. Period. *I love Dr Tour's passion.* If you don't like it, click away, it's that simple. James was trying to challenge and prove them on science but they keep trying to push him into religion so as to call him a religious bigot with no science. They had ZERO answers to his questions. God bless you, Dr Tour.

Assembly theory, sounds like, Intelligent design or Guided design... at 1:15 in the video, I fail to see details of complexity that Dr. Tour has presented to the debate, or how to overcome those problems. Seems like Generalizations is the only thing I see from Dr. Cronin. It appears, this discussion, as a realization that Dr. Tour is right, and Dr. Cronin realizes the problems are there, and gives generalizations in the future as to how it will eventually come out on his side again. A huge step for Mr. Tour, that, at least they come to the realization the question to the cells creation is more complex than originally thought. It was good for Dr. Cronin to be there, so we have to thank him for showing up.

James Tour is seemingly one of the best scammers of his generation. Some people really seem not to know that he's not a researcher or even a scientist. Man, religion is such a powerful thing...

It's interesting to note that Darwin never actually explained the origin of species in his great book, merely variations within species owing to natural selection. David Berlinski discusses this with perspicacity.

Thank you Dr Cronin and Dr Tour!!! Great to see scientists openly discuss these hard problems! It is the only way science is going to progress when we critique the research and look for ways to test/answer the question!!

im inclined to say both of them are intellectual giants but i must say lee is grossly misunderstood, i can say he's onto something

Tour was a little outmatched at the dinner table. Massive respect for Dr. Lee and the other researchers who took the time to try and bring the science together.

Dr. Tour open our eyes. God bless us all who watching the discussion ❤

I understand the “civilized” approach that Dr. Cronin is presenting his case. It is nonetheless full of error. But I truly appreciate your take on it. Since he is the only one who is willing to dialogue with Dr. Tour, I will give him that in good “Faith”.

The best part of this video was where the guy was talking about dinner arrangements.

Eventually we are going to solve it so who cares how faraway we are today? 100 years from now we be closer or solved.

Never trust anyone who publicly states that they want to remove all CO2 from the atmosphere to make diamonds.

We can have complex biomolecules like those typically found integrating the DNA molecule and polypeptides, but without the genetic code we have nothing! Life, as currently we know it, only exists in the framework of a communication system, where the genetic code is essential to make this communication system work.