Well, we all knew it was coming sooner or later, and the time has finally come. MauLer and I take on The Final Frontier, and ask ourselves the question - what does God need with a starship?
Its a great line and it almost, almost made the movie worthwhile But honestly I have no memory of what happens in the movie after this line, though. Like I thought it ended there with 'god' being blown up.
“- Kirk: Damn it Spock! God damn it! - Spock: Captain, what have I done? - Kirk: What you've done is betray every man on this ship! - Spock: Worse I've betrayed you. I do not expect you to forgive me. - Kirk: Forgive you? I oughta knock you on your goddamned ass! - Spock: If you think it would help.” -Bones: Do you want me to hold him Jim?" LOL. That exchange between the three of them was gold.
I swear that line makes up for everything else, and let's be honest, a previously and afterwards never mentioned "energy barrier" and an unknown, powerful entity, is just any ST episode of the week. Kirk witnesses how Bones is changed by going through the purge and knows he will not be the same person afterwards. That's why he rejects the "healing". But at the same time, Spocks brother isn't totally off his rocker. He is focused and determined, not a crazy villain. I think this movie gets more hate than it deserves for what it accomplishes.
Yes, a good friend was suffering terrible chronic pain after a stroke and he would quote that one line from a bad movie for comfort, to give his awful situation context. I can forgive the film anything because of it.
@@la_scrittice_vitafrom the darkest corners of life sometimes we find the most surprising reminders of why life matters. (this film is being compared to a dark corner of life in this scenario :D ) I am very sorry for your friend, but glad he found something good in life in not just that but in the rest of it as well that brought him comfort and purpose
The stuff in Yosemite is honestly really good, it just belongs in a different movie. Outside of maybe the Romulan lady, who is so irrelevant that as a turbo Trekkie I have never even bothered to learn her name, the cast for this were all quite talented actors. Too bad they were given such an awful script.
Yeah, Drinker hasn't really gotten into the original series, I suspect it's too dated/low budget for him. I could probably think of a half dozen or more episodes where some form of God is encountered or debated. Even the Roman episode where Uhura mentions "not the Sun up in the sky but the Son of God", an overt reference to Christ.
They met Apollo once. (Who Mourns for Adonais?) They went to a planet that was in the midst of a literal Christian uprising. (Bread and Circuses) And they treated it as an absolute good. There was a Space Jesus, from an alien planet, a second actual Christian messiah, in Star Trek, prior to this movie.
And much like how the first movie pretty mush lifts the plot of the episode _The Changeling,_ this one is very much a rehash of the episode _The Way to Eden._
It's funny that this one went so far off the rails, but they completely stuck the landing with Undiscovered Country. It's actually impressive to see that kind of recovery.
Despite everything about this movie, as everyone always says. It has the one good lesson in it that is worth the whole thing existing. Who are we if we lose the experiences and the pain that those experiences caused, that define us, and lead us to becoming better people, making better choices, trying to actually help other people, and make the world a better place?
The trauma of watching Star Trek V has definitely helped shape who I am as a person. I don't know if I'm a better person because of it, but I am who I am in some part because of it.
Kirk: "You mean he's your 'brother' brother? Spock: Kirk: "You made that up." Spock: "I did not." Kurtzman: "And here's his step-sister!" Spock: "You made that up." Kurtzman: "Yeah, I did."
First ST film i watched, with my grandfather. And its one of the few that has an assigned mission, crew on the Enterprise, in uniform, with their stuff, exploring the unknown, doing the stuff they would regularly do in the series (no time travel, no mutiny, no cadets, no pajamas). Really enjoyed the Observation Lounge. But i understand why it didnt do well.
It has its flaws. Many from behind the scenes with production issues. But, it did feel like a big budget version of a TOS episode. The banter between the three leads was the most on point it ever had been. Yeah I liked the observation Lounge too. It felt that version of the Enterprise Ten Forward.
The thing is it isn't "God", it's just another powerful being. In TOS they encountered Apollo from ancient Greece, and other seemingly omnipotent beings. It's just not well done or well explored here.
Published today For 92-year-old actor William Shatner, it takes minimal reflection of his illustrious Hollywood career to pinpoint his biggest regret. Speaking candidly about his 1989 film, "Star Trek V: The Final Frontier," Shatner implies that the project was doomed from the start. He reprised his role as Adm. James T. Kirk in the film, which he originally played in the TV series. "I wish that I’d had the backing and the courage to do the things I felt I needed to do. My concept was, "'Star Trek' goes in search of God," and management said, ‘Well, who’s God? We’ll alienate the nonbeliever, so, no, we can’t do God,’" he explained to The Hollywood Reporter. "And then somebody said, ‘What about an alien who thinks they’re God?’ Then it was a series of my inabilities to deal with the management and the budget," he said of the subsequent steps to making the film, in which he served as director. "I failed. In my mind, I failed horribly." "When I’m asked, ‘What do you regret the most?,’ I regret not being equipped emotionally to deal with a large motion picture. So in the absence of my power, the power vacuum filled with people that didn’t make the decisions I would’ve made," he lamented. When it was released, the "Star Trek" film was criticized for its lack of execution and being an overall disappointment. Shatner noted that he takes all the blame, even if people question his budget or the support he had in hindsight. "It is on me," he reiterated, giving an example of mismanaging his $30 million budget. "[In the final scene] I wanted granite [rock creatures] to explode out of the mountain. The special effects guy said, ‘I can build you a suit that’s on fire and smoke comes out.’ I said, ‘Great, how much will that cost?’ They said, ‘$250,000 a suit.’ ‘Can you make 10 suits?’ He said, ‘Yeah.’" "That’s $2.5 million. You’ve got a $30 million budget. You sure you want to spend [it on that]?" he remembers thinking. "Those are the practical decisions," he said. Shatner's plan famously didn't materialize due to mechanical issues toward the end of filming.
Captain Kirk, no longer Admiral. I love when an article fucks up in the first paragraph. However, Shatner’s recollection of the studio not wanting to commit to God for fear of offending non-believers is ironic , considering that Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, released the same year, confirmed the reality of Jesus Christ as Lord, and that film was directed by the very Jewish Steven Spielberg.
@@MrWhipple42 The movie fails both in terms of concept and execution. Even the question “What is God?” is only as good as the answer you come up with. Ultimately, we got an imposter and I’m okay with that. It’s one of the few parts of the story that works.
@@sdfried4877 The Star Trek TOS series did more than a few turns at "the imposter god." All of them were better than how ST5 dealt with it. We never even find out what the being at the center of the universe was, and then we get Kirk's on-the-nose remark about the human heart, which has no setup and therefore no payoff.
It's actually pretty consistent that Spock doesn't talk about his personal life or family. Kirk didn't know about Spock's arranged marriage until Spock went through pon'far, which he also learned about in that moment. He didn't know Spock's father was the Vulcan ambassador until the Enterprise had to transport the Vulcan ambassador. Spock's parents are standing right in front of Kirk and Kirk doesn't know they're Spock's parents. Spock is very closed off about his personal life.
You must remember the context. This was the worst Star Trek movie _when it came out._ (or the 1st movie). That's where the collective opinion was formed.
I bought it on VHS back in the day and no internet back then and I really enjoyed the film. I just don't get the hate its like a feature length TOS episode
Drinker, "It's a spaceship, it's not like it can land." J.J Abrams, "MY Enterprise can not only land, it can dive, is WAY bigger and has the biggest brewery inside you've ever seen!"
Well I mean a constitution class can at least fly in atmosphere. And an intrepid class, though not invented yet, being slightly bigger than a constitution actually can land on the surface.
Did anyone think the entity was actually supposed to be God in film? I never thought that. I felt it was just some powerful being we had not seen before similar to the Q. It was imprisoned long ago by his species or some other powerful race and then manipulated spocks brother through telepathy in order to escape. The story definitely isn't great but i never thought it was actually supposed to be about God.
That's what it turns into yes. But the idea before meeting him was he maybe God. Star Trek had the race that were worshipped by God by the Greeks, so it does play with the idea of a sufficiently advanced society being indistinguishable from magic. Like Babylon 5s Vernon's appearing in BC Earth would be the basis for angels.
my take, as a kid, was that Sybok somehow manifested this thing into existence and it was trapped there, plotting and scheming to finally get out. "A vision you created. An eternity I have been imprisoned in this place"
There's an episode of TNG that most people forget about, which seems to feature another alien entity similar to this one that isn't so hostile and malevolent. The implication is that there is this race of powerful floating glowing head creatures at the center of the galaxy that just imprisoned this one bad guy because he violated their moral code or whatever. The rest of them are probably pretty chill, and minding their own business at the center of the galaxy doing giant floating glowing head things. Star Trek in general is pretty weird when it comes to the cosmos. The Federation, and its neighbors, exist in a pretty small part of one arm of the Milky Way. There seems to be pretty normal regions of space in the Delta and Gamma Quadrants as well. But venture outside of those areas and very quickly there be dragons. Go out to the edge of the galaxy and your ESPers are gonna get godlike powers and go crazy. Get near the center of the galaxy and you'll encounter ancient godlike beings. Stray into unexplored regions and you're likely to encounter a Nagilum.
It’s funny how you have the loose of trilogy of 2, 3, & 4 that’s book ended by movies where characters are in search of their creators. You have Vyger in Motion Picture who’s on a quest to find and talk to its creator, and now we have Final Frontier where the Enterprise and its crew who go looking for their creator.
It has some great quotable lines and, imo, one of the best soundtracks of any Trek movie - both "The Mountain" and "A Busy Man" are gorgeous pieces of music.
I realized a few years ago that this was the first film I ever watched at the pictures. Was taken with a friend and his dad when I was around four years old, and I was left with an incredibly strong memory that I couldn't place: a giant face, floating in a glowing blue cloud. When I watched it (it turned out) again, it was a case of "core memory unlocked".
There were so many great character interactions in Star Trek V. The whole Yosemite part tells so much about Kirk Spock and McCoy. The end was just slapped together though.
I would love for the studio to go back and give this a "Special Edition" or an actual "Director's Cut" for streaming and physical media. One of the biggest issues is the bad VFX, which could easily be fixed today. Replace the starship VFX and the "god planet", and would help improve the look of the film a great deal. I doubt they would spend the money to incorporate the rock monsters, but at the very least they could redo the VFX that made it in the film.
@@All2MemeIt is like: Ben Affleck "I'm gonna do a movie where I have a relationship with a lesbian." Kevin Smith "we did that movie, it's called Chasing Amy." Ben: "But it is JLo this time!" Only in this case, they put a chick in it, and made her lame and gay.
I love how Shatner pulled the "Spock has a secret sibling." long before Kurtzman did. Oh, and would it not have been great if "God" turned out to have actually been Charlie X from the Classic 60's show? If my fellow Trek fans remember he was quite angry with Kirk for sending him back. I just thought, I'd have made Sybok a creation of Charlie X and he implanted false memories of him being Spock's brother, created to lure them to his Time Out spot and free him. Of course the Enterprise would be the only ship because that's the only ship Charlie encountered of significance to him.
Wow, that story would have been amazing. The only thing that hypothetically could have derailed such a plot is the powers at be at the time may have not wanted to dredge up another character from the original series ah la Khan.
@UberBman But a resourceful writer could have made mention of that as pertaining to Kirk's past and his decisions catching up to him. Plus, mentioning what happened in Wrath of Khan would have been a good callback and connective strands to the previous movies. In watching the Classic series, Kirk left a lot of loose ends in several loose ends. Would be only natural to have tied them up. I'm half tempted, given putting myself in a more stable living situation with less stress, to write out a fanfiction based on my idea.
P.S. Can it be said that Kirk's life is a continual Kobayashi Maru test? He may have cheated by reprogramming the simulation, but everything in his life has had elements of the test show through.
Really fun watchalong. ❤ When I was in college, I treated all of my siblings to STV:TFF as a treat on opening night. We waited an hour in line and talked to other happy excited fans to pass the wait. The excitement was truly palpable. As we waited in line, the 5 pm showing audience came out and I excitedly asked a guy exiting how it was. He looked at me with a pause and then finally in our ever so polite Canadian way managed to utter, "Eh, it was okay." It clearly wasn't. 😮 His disappointment was so palpable that the crowd literally went silent. I knew right then and there I was going to regret bringing my little brothers and sisters along. I failed to learn my lesson and when I graduated and got my first job, I treated them all to Star Trek: Generations. Gee, I wonder why none of them to this day give a rat's ass about Star Trek. 😂
I like star trek 5 because it's got the original cast,it reminds me of the original TV series,the chemistry of the characters,love the music from the late great Jerry goldsmith 🖖
I kind of agree. I liked Trek before this film, and it was a bad film especially when you stack it up against the other five. But it's likeable enough and smart people with good intentions made it...unlike today. It was just a classic example of smart people making too many very bad decisions.
1:37:50 They actually cheekily address that in the TNG episode "The Nth Degree." In fact it's kind of implied the giant ghost head aliens in that episode are the same beings as the fake god in this movie.
This movie is a guilty pleasure for me. I think it’s a bit underrated. Not perfect though. I personally give it a 7/10. Can understand of course why some people don’t like it (cheap visual effects, disappointing ending). Big pluses for me are the relationships between the big three (the pain scene in particular is fantastic and among the best in the series). Jerry Goldsmith’s score (particularly A Busy Man).
He should be remembered as a grand British icon. The man's professional life is incredible with all he done. Had the great pleasure of meeting him and talking with him at a convention years ago. Very aproachable and a real pleasure. RIP Mr. Warner.
There is a good two part episode of Dr Who, they are called "The Impossible Planet" & "The Satan Pit", where Doc & Rose meets Satan. Was the 10th Doctor, David Tennant, June 2006.
There's an episode of Star Trek The Animates Series where they go to the center of the galaxy and meet Satan, and then they make friends with him, and Kirk battles a 16th century puritan in a wizard duel using magic spells, and I wish I was making any of this up.
It's a good scene, but a really weird line unsupported by anything else anywhere in the Star Trek canon. It seems to only exist so that Spock can tell him he wasn't alone at the end of the film, in a pretty terrible scene.
I gotta say….I love this movie. For me, I loved TOS because of the big 3. Sure, some were solid and some were crap but the big 3 always kept me engaged and they were front and center in this movie.
Insane that you’ll watch this and not the director’s cut of Star Trek TMP. That version decidedly tightened up the pacing in addition to upgraded sound and special effects. It’s my third favorite movie in the franchise now
I'd really enjoy a Star Trek retrospective with Gary and Drinker and MauLer-who's-been-forced-to-watch-all-of-TOS/TNG/DS9. Is Az even a Trekkie? I've only really heard him talk about Dr. Who and comic book stuff.
@@fakecubed Az is a strong TNG guy (show not films). He's mentioned if more than once. The most he's chatted about it was in a stream with RnB who's an Uber fan.
When I first saw the movie, I thought Kirk meant he would die alone because somebody prophesied it. But recently I realized he meant that he would die alone because he has no one to come home to.
Before TNG: Trekkie - the people who memorized Yeoman Rand's Cabin #, and the Combination to Kirk's safe. Trekker - the people who went deeper Trekkist - the people who didn't worry about the trivia, and focused on the themes and philosophies After TNG: Trekkie - fans of TOS Trekker - fans of TNG I'm sure there is now a variation between fans of TOS/TAS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT and the novels based on them fans of JJ Trek movies fans of Kurtzman trek (DIS, SNW, LD, PRO, PIC)
I’ve loved Star Trek since I was a kid, which I got from my Dad, so thanks to you and Mauler for doing this… It’s probably my favorite thing out of all the great things y’all do…
Also he did die alone in Generations originally, shot in the back and forgotten about, but that didn't test well so they had Kirk die under a bridge instead.
A photon torpedo is significantly more powerful than a nuke. Kirk and Co. run 50 ft and duck into a ditch and survivie a photon torpedo strike called directly down on their position. Didn't even need a refrigerator.
I'll comment on pain that for myself it has been a strict teacher and has shaped me as a man. Half of my strength of character and empathy of others is from the pain and struggles I've been through. I've seen what individuals are like who have never struggled or felt pain or loss and I thank God that I am not like those shadow people.😊
Let me help with distinguishing Trekkies from Trekkers: ''Trekkies'' act they believe the Star Trek universe is real. They walk, talk and act out Star Trek. I've seen some who walk around in public wearing Star Trek costumes (aside from the conventions). They even go to work that way. I met one guy years ago who legally changed his name to James T. Kirk. They spend thousands of dollars on anything Star Trek. And anything even remotely labeled "Star Trek" is fine with them. ''Trekkers'' see Star Trek as a brilliant form of entertainment. Star Trek let's us engage in the suspension of disbelief for an hour or two at a time. It's an established vehicle to tell good sci-fi stories with. We might wear a t-shirt with a Star Trek logo and even cosplay for a convention, but we live in the real world. Some of us like to produce our own type of fan art from drawings to paintings and to fan films. We are fans of Star Trek, but we're picky about it. I've been a Trekker since 1970 and I've always identified as one. And I suppose there's nothing wrong with being either. It's up to everyone individually to identify as one or the other or something else.
The difference between Trekkie and Trekker is based on who is defining it. You can find people insisting real fans are Trekkies and others saying real fans are Trekkers, and the same goes for what to call causal vs committed fans and "serious & thoughtful" fans vs those who will consume any Trek related merch. In my opinion, Trekker was basically a pretentious term used by those who wanted to distance themselves from being called Trekkies because of the stigma.
I could see Sean Connery playing Sybok, especially at the age he would've been when this was made. I definitely wouldn't take him as Sybok over him in Last Crusade, of course. Not in a million years. But I think he would've been pretty great in this role as well.
This movie is often said to be the second worst of the six films but I really enjoy it. The exchanges between the crew are some of the funniest in my opinion but as long as I’m entertained I don’t complain much 🤷🏻♂️
There's a big difference between watching a bad movie like "Rebel Moon" and thinking "This is so bad and I hate it" and watching this and thinking "This is so bad but I still love it because I love these characters and enjoy watching them work together." There's a lovable, nostalgic cheapness here that I can appreciate, especially when compared to today's films made for... modern audiences.
Cats don't like water. So if you throw a cat into a pool (haha, pool, get it?), the cat instantly dies. That's the sum total of thought that went into this entire production, summed up in one shot.
Hiya guys - they had a wonderful book called the Kobayashi Maru where they show what happens to multiple characters when they were faced with the scenario - Scotty, Sulu and Chekov if memory serves, and it was very good. They also had they go to IRL version as well - (a "super entity" - puts them there) - but the character development was very interesting in the book and shows how they approach the situations. When you talked about an alternative cut where they dealt with all the pain of the characters it made me thing of this.
I like this movie more than any of the TNG movies. Sorry, not sorry. I appreciate the intent behind it, to return to the classic TOS dilemmas regarding the nature of man/God, wrestling with the core of being. Just a shame they couldn't nail that theme down better. That said, Undiscovered County is my absolutely favorite of all the films.
The one cool thing about Sybok in this was an off camera piece of trivia….Laurence Luckinbill is Lucille Ball’s son in law (married to Lucie Arnaz), and Lucy was the studio head who actually gave Trek a chance back in the 60’s.
Well we've already had a crack at Kirk and his insecurities and failures and regrets. The show dealt with that quite a few times, Shore Leave, City on the Edge of Forever, The Conscience of the King, The Enemy Within, Obsession, etc. I don't think we need that scene here.
Faith requires consent or at least acceptance of powerlessness in the face of something more powerful than you. This story makes more sense from a philosophical point of view than a simple action movie framework.
Of all the movies theyve made WHY does this one have no Dorector Cut? they did it for every other movie and theres admissions this movies effects were messed up. William Shatner deserves a final say. the man is Epic
I remember having very deep philosophical discussions after this movie I also remember that the dead poets society either came out around this time or before this, and it had an influence on the discussions that took place after this movie in the parking lot and on the ride back to the ship and even in the berthing 22:32 space.
One of life's simple pleasures is watching you two erudite gentleman viewing cinema together. Could easily do this every day. Star Trek 5 had glimpses of greatness but so much of it was rushed, including the ideas. I never bought Scotty and Uhura, either. This was the only one I didn't see in theater, oddly enough. Will you be reviewing the following films? I'd be interested but totally understand if you didn't.
Here's my problem with Nimbus III: Why is there no security for the ambassadors? The UN has security. Embassies have security. As a crew chief in the USAF I have personally launched a fully armed F-15 to protect the President when he was attending the G8 summit. There is no way this planet, especially Paradise City, would be left unprotected.
They really did Scotty dirty in this one when you compare his job performance in the movie with how he got a derelict starship combat capable with nonexistent resources in Doomsday Machine.
This film wasn't as good as the others. But it was still an enjoyable movie. The actor who played Sybok did an incredible job, because that was not an easy role to play.
This planet is in the Triangle between the three powers. There are several starbases and patrol ships right there. Why did they need the Academy Commandant? And if he was somehow more versed on the current situation on the border than the starship captains that were a few hours away, why not put him on ANY other ship? The Ship's Log, Turbolift, Transporters all don't work - but they trust the Inertial Dampeners not to turn them into a paste?
STO put Nimbus III far away from the Klingon Empire, but arguably near the border between the Federation and Romulan Star Empire. It's a little weird. I think they based it off of some non-canon map some guy published many years ago to try and fit Star Trek into what we know of our actual galaxy.
The “marshmellon” line felt so unlike Spock that my tiny self just assumed that must be an alternate pronunciation from a different English-speaking country. (I was a very trusting little nerd)
