Dutch - The Ultimate Master Of Manipulation 

It's a bit of a stretch to take that one line and make it mean that Dutch wasn't always like this.

John literally says in RDR1 that Dutch has always been like this.

With all due respect to the brilliant performance of Benjamin Byron Davis, just because he plays the character, doesn't mean he knows the character.

Dutch is lying in his first sentences of the game...

Then, after he took care of bell, why did he go and Manipulate the natives. Dutch was always a con artist, Narcissist and manipulator. Regardless if micah Was around.

Dutch did nothing wrong.

He’s a two bit gangster who needs prison time. A long time in the pen.

he fooled arthur all of his life... not Micah ;)

eeh greatly disagree their. not a good man... but a man of principle still. there is a distinct difference in how he operated compared to his rivals. The principles disintegrated once

If you say so. All of this shit seemed pretty obvious to me

Arthur was probably thinking to himself: "damn, he's manipulated these kids the same way he has me for 20 years"

@@anthonyfernandez82 Yeah prob

Yeh see i was fully behind the head Injury theory but your so right. That does just make him manipulative because they had no loyalty or love for him either. He just talked his way into things

He did that in rdr1. Even got a bunch of regular criminals too

the native americans didn't care cause their own people were getting treated like crap so they said f*** it let's join dutch don't blame them tbh

True! Why should Dutch's tent be priority? Arthur's we get it because Arthur is the one donating most money and buying upgrades, but the fact that it's Dutch first and only at the 3rd do we upgrade other gang members tents is telling.

Because Dutch is the leader of the gang... who the gang is named after...

Ugh why didn't I know this... I never upgraded that bastard's tent!!!!!

huh? First of all, that just doesn’t matter and Rockstar had to pick one of them. Second of all, Dutch is the leader of the gang. Plus, people would probably twist it to call Arthur ‘selfish’ if he had of upgraded his tent first.

@@henry7486 Arthur does the upgrades himself, and it gives him a new functionality so I think the fact that the first update is making more comfortable the already most comfortable tent in camp could potentially mean the man who spends all game giving speeches on how “he’d more than gladly die instead of the others” and calls out the greedy civilised west is perhaps himself selfish and greedy Then compare it to Hosea who sleeps on the hard cold floor next to other gang members

Indeed! I personally find it's down to the personality of the player to determine their own truths for themselves regarding Dutch. :) Dutch is extremely 3D as an individual. So I am totally with you on that belief, I've met people in real life in my past who have been similar to Dutch, I won't drone on about it because it's one hell of a story, however it doesn't include Cowboys, Indians and Pinkertons lol! I had some interesting debates myself with 'social' philosophers and some like myself with certain educational skills shall we say, in psychology/sociology. The results are very varied, and it gets more complicated when you consider Micah's interference and the events of the game, loss of Hosea, Lenny, Sean, Kieran too as some gang members were starting to take to him close to his fatal death of mutilation at the hands of Colm. These actors/voice actors who played these characters didn't just speak words through a script, they had to think and feel as these characters. But that's a topic for another time and I've still got plenty to say, I'll attempt to keep this rant relatively short but I hold no promises! :P Red Dead Redemption 2 is massively far from some ordinary game or story for that matter. It's one giant adventure combined with immersive cutscenes and gripping emotional plays by their real life counterparts, the cast deserve oscars in my opinion, it would be cool though if they started handing out Oscars to game actors. Should be a thing, unless it already is? Because the main characters smashed it, they all did really. Even the ones who had little involvement in certain important cutscenes and were more like background actors most of the time like Mary-Beth. I only hope the recent GTA 6 lives up to being just as awesome, because I gotta admit, I've played maaaaany a R* game but none of them gripped me as hard as Red Dead Redemption 2's story and tale, not one single Grand Theft Auto game has ever hit me like a freight train like Red Dead Redemption 2 did. I mean I enjoyed them for gameplay quality at the time, but the stories were very predictable, the first time Arthur's TB started kicking off on the way to Sadie in Saint Denis to plan out how to rescue John, I was like "Wtf is this the guy with the blow dart again from Guarma!?" then cued the coughing and after all I'd been through as Arthur, I immediately thought "Oh, shit, oh no." after realising joking aside that he had caught something terrible somehow, didn't dawn on me until 30 minutes later after diagnosis that he contracted it for beating a man to death (Thomas Downes) and of course, accidents being accidents, I mean, if you're about to cough you can't help it, especially with a progressive disease like TB, it's a cruel fate. You can only mitigate it, but he was pinned against a fence by Arthur so couldn't exactly cover up his face. However, Arthur's arrogance proved to be his undoing and thus set the motions of Redemption forth towards the latter stages of the game. Even with Thomas being a do-gooder as Arthur has described anyway. But that's an entirely different matter, I believe Arthur's fate with his terminal illness for that time was hastened by Micah towards the end, the stress of outlaw life and his perspective flipping over, Guarma, his mentor who he loves to bits turning against him and those who are ACTUALLY loyal and not blindly loyal like Bill, Javier and so forth, hardly count Micah as loyal as he clearly was playing all sides to his advantage. But ultimately Arthur's fate was primarily contributed by Dutch and Strauss. If you evade going to beat on Thomas. Dutch starts nagging at you and so does Strauss to go do it. Of course this is miles before Arthur realised how blindly loyal he had been too, time is irrelevant people. Even when you've known someone so long, as I always say, if your gut tells you not to do something, don't do it, Arthur realised this too little too late. Hence why Strauss along with many other reasons was kicked out of camp by Arthur. Anyway, I'll leave it there for now. I hope this provides some insight to people anyway I've definitely broke my promise of ranting that's for sure aha! When I am finished streaming Beaver Hollow for a family friend of mine, (as we have been following the entire story together, my third time playing it, her first time seeing it and she loves Arthur so god help her big time when she sees the ultimatum!) we're gonna either hit up the dishonorable version of the story or go straight to Red Dead Redemption continuing with John Marston. Sorry for the paragraphs anyway, just thought I'd share my own revelations. :) Peace and love all!

What happened to Dutch is that tunnel visioned on that end goal, over optimistic, chased it till the end, and the when the gang broke out, he said fuck it, and went full outlaw mode

@@balancebreaker1561 He was probably hiding his truly intentions the whole time.

I JUST finished playing rEd Dead Redemption 2 for the very first time 2 days ago! I figured it was an easy answer; Dutch was always a silver tongued jack ass. However, once the immersion kicks in, I started to see it a little more from Arthur's perspective. Dutch, to Arthur, was something like a type of father. Dutch, to Arthur, was always a leader. He taught Arthur most of what he knows about living the life he desired in his youth when all hope may have been lost. As I type that, I realize how cult-y that sounds. However, even months before the downfall of the gang began, Charles found logic and reason in trusting Dutch. And Arthur describes a time where Dutch even reprimanded him for robbing people who were too poor. Weather this is because it was morally correct, or because it was a bad score that provides nothing, it shows that Dutch is capable of recognizing that. I think, with that last one said, Micahs arrival is also pinpointed with Leopard Strauss joining the camp. Even beyond the first mission Arthur takes from Strauss, he is against it, because taking from unfortunate folks is not what Dutch taught him. In fact, no matter how low your honor is, Arthur believes in kicking out Leopald Strauss out of the gang is whats right, because he scams people who are worse off than even they are. I don't think Dutch Van'der Lin was ever a good person. After all, he is an outlaw, theif, and murderer. There is no way around that from the start. It is the life that many agree they found joy in in their youths. However, when it stopped being easy to live that life, to avoid local law enforcement and simply run away, to quote Abigail, and Dutch himself; "Im getting to old for that life." However, i think wth Micahs set in stone survivalist mindset, "Im a survivor, Morgan!" As well as his young andreckless thinking, see the Strawberry Massacre when Micah is broken out if jail, per Dutchs request... Well, the story gives off a midlife crisis vibe of sorts. Dutch is no longer young, and with Hosea gone, there is no one to question or slow him down when he wishes to act impulsively. He finds a type of young fun in being an outlaw, and at some point was capable of being a smart outlaw, who chooses his hits carefully. TLDR; i think Dutch has reached a midlife crisis of sorts after he was no longer young and able to run away from local law, and thus easily took to Micahs reckless and survivalist ideals. While never having been a good person, he did have a decline of moral and thought, and was easily drawn in to new ideals after Micah came in, especially after the death of his partner and guide, Hosea Matthews. I ranted there im so sorry-

@@highonmossyeah, when your main influences are just Micah and a crazy writer things are bound to go a little sideways

"It makes me wonder how Arthur would have turned out if he didn't have people like Charles opening his eyes." Two words: Micah Bell. Micah is literally Arthur's dark reflection, representing what Arthur could have become if he lacked a moral compass or scrupules.

@@jorgebersabe293 I think Micah still makes bad karma Arthur look like Childs play. What I mostly mean is that Arthur was blindly loyal to Dutch and the gang. He wasn’t outright evil in the beginning, but some of his choices are still questionable. I think it was people like Charles who taught him that you can be a good friend without being a yes man or someone’s pawn. Putting aside his sickness which was also a reality check

I feel like that makes sense. I think that in the starting stages of the gang, his love and loyalty for the gang was more genuine but that could be optimistic thinking

Dutch did stick out his neck out for Javier in Guarma tho

Also there’s the fact that him dressing up like some perfumed fop doesn’t gel well with his supposed ideology of a rough and tumble anarchist living free in the wild.

​@@stingerjohnny9951It does give truth to Uncle's words: "He wants to be an American king with his Knights."

Criminals taking in young people and having young members is generally still normal nowadays in the world of crime so i dont think a teenage criminal like dutch taking in another teen member is that morally wrong for a regular criminal

@hrodebrt Exactly. Not many look at it like that. Milton is the good guy doing his job. We are the villains

yeah but he killed Micah so...

Yes, but killing her shouldn't have been his first instinct. What he normally would have done was he would have tried to talk it out, then killed her. But he had no hesitation. Think about when he was talking with the Braithwaites. He didn't go there guns blazing. He tried to negotiate them handing jack over, then shot them. He had full intention of killing the Braithwaites, but he tried to talk with them first. That's why the lady was so much different.

but he EASILY could’ve talked and down play it then disarmed her and incapacitated her in an instant, but instead he just said oh yeah how abt this and snapped her neck

I always found how he killed to be more concerning than him actually killing her

@@theoutsiderjess4869 honestly, what other way was there to kill her?

@@calebrodarte7888 I disagree, she got mad at him because he didn't have anymore gold to offer so unless he had more gold, he couldn't have calmed her down.

How many times'd you run back to edit this?

@@ClaytonTheCracker Once, for typos. Bitch. I mean, the game’s been out for 5yrs, this information is tattooed on my brain.

​@@ClaytonTheCracker I know right. Wtf is he saying?

@@iamjacksennui it sort of makes sense when you take every sentence as it's own idea. Tho idk if Landon was ever deputized

I can't fight my own nature

He's only human after all, don't put the blame on him

Don't know which comment above i like more

W pfp amigo​@@AshleysBrother

Horse shoe over look travelling music

@asadshahid9885 thank you

@@captancrunch1 I appreciate it brother

delete this comment before it’s too late

@@coolthefool1 Elaborate, what is "too late" ?

@@NedoFinlay before i see this odd comment again

​@@coolthefool1ohh...funny...Real knee slapper

He tries to but the gang stops him

She doesn't trust dutch after he refused to save john from the prison

Do i sound like i eat with every video?

@@CynicGTA not like legit eat. like you always kill on your videos they are so good

I believe originally was a good man, but a complicated man, but overtime, he started to become more and more evil and depraved

I always saw Dutch as a smooth talking conman and highway robber who used the whole 'modern day Robin Hood' schtick as a cover to justify his actions and get people to follow him. Over time, he actually started to believe the things he was saying and became delusional. But once things started to fall apart and he lost control of the situation, his charming facade dropped, reveling what he really was. Underneath it all, he's nothing more than a narcissistic sociopath who only cares about himself and will ruin the lives of anyone if it means he comes out on top.

The gang lasted 20 years, what we see in the game is only the last year or so when everything started to fall apart, and you can see from old newspaper clippings at least early on they did seem tonhave that code Arthur spoke of, but the pressure of being hunted made them all more desperate. I f you consider the immense pressure Dutch was under during the latter half of the game, the responsibilties of keeping 20 people fed and safe when they were being hunted like animals, a lot of people would crack like Durch did I have no doubt he was self serving and the gang and its code were a way to feed his own ego, if being outlaws who were "better" than the other gangs because they had "a code" but those princioles held for 20 odd years and only fell apart under immense pressure at the end. Doesn't make the way he betrayed the people who were loyal to him for the sake of a rat he knew for 6 months but looking at the situation he was in makes it easier to understand why he lost his shit.

his first sentences in the game are lies ;)

@@Erika_Kohl nah man i disagree with that. man put himself in dire risk of being stabbed by a completely unstable and hysteric woman simply to help calm her down and get her shelter. he would would have. he would have./

You clearly don't pay much attention. The head injury in itself is a theory and that's not what caused anything. He was always a manipulative narcissist, he just stopped caring to hide it after Hosea died, he no longer had the voice of reason grounding him. And if you don't like RDR2 content, don't watch it. Hitting the dislike button and telling RU-vid to stop recommending it is pretty easy. Crazy how you can claim this game having bad writing is a fact because of your own pre-conceptions about the characters and hating Rockstar games.

@@Zeroshiki "The head injury in itself is a theory" that's interesting... a theory of what, exactly?

@@Zeroshiki That's what I thought.

Bros trying to start shit

This take is so bad you can't even spell it right

no im just stating my opinion@@jellyjohn7881

i dont care if anyone disagrees with me i dont depend on the crowd to love me@Vinguy889

Opinion not accepted 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬👺👺👺👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👺👺👺👺🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

It depends on the person believing which one

Its Both

He never changed, Arthur was the one that turned on him, I mean dude was literally undergoing a redemption 😂

@@kaydens6964can you please shut up? Every bloody video remotely related to this topic, and there you are spouting shitforbrains takes on morality and character analysis.

varies between people. In a sense he was always evil cause he chose robbing and killing. He had a sense of honor that made him stand out compared to people like O Driscol and others, that balanced out his behavior... Clearly also an egoist and proud but one that still had a sense of morality unusual for his ilk. The morality fell to peices under increasing stress and the lost of the people who kept him anchored and sane, the biggest break being the loss of Hosea. He wasn't a 'proper' narccisit though. He does too many things that go against it, and there is no way that Dutch could ahve had such a loyal and put together gang last for so long if he was. True you got asshole like we have to day ruling nations but there is a level of difference here cause dutch's gang was always small and personable, a family. Closer a man is to ya ever day the more things can be.... off.