Was Abigail The Real Rat ALL Along? | Red Dead Redemption 2 

I want to apologize, I am stupidly sick. So, please excuse sounding worst than usual. Do you believe Abigail was the rat? What would you want to be covered next? Or who?

I don’t see a world where Milton DOESNT make fun of Arthur for rescuing Abigail if she was a rat

I felt that hosea simply just gave himself up to ensure that Abigail made it out since hosea knew he didn't have much time left and seeing how much abigail meant to jack so hosea figured that it wasn't a hard choice to make, I think he knew that he was going to die as an outlaw in one way or another.

When John finds Micah on the mountain, a rat literally comes across the path right in front of the cabin lmfao. Rockstar literally put a rat in a place it could NOT survive, to tell you “hey, you found the rat”

I would just like to point out that it was actually Mary-Beth who got the information on the train robbery. In the first chapter 2 mission in Valentine she says that she learned about this train while talking to people or something. She could've been told this by undercover lawmen looking to lure in outlaw gangs. That could be why the law was prepared for the robbery.

after years of thinking about it, and watching a bunch of videos about it, this is what ive come to. dutch and the gang just got sloppy. arthur said it himself towards the end, they didnt need a rat cause they started making way too much noise, starting with blackwater. from then on, they just got worse and worse at being discreet and covering their tracks. plus, the dutch and them probably had an M.O. that the pinkertons were able to follow. micah only started working with the feds at the end cause he saw where everything was going and since he has no honor, he was gonna do what he needed to do to save himself

Abigail was not a rat, jeez. She was a mother with a family who saw the writing on the wall. The end.

Here's the proof that Micah was the rat. -How Micah met Dutch. Micah met Dutch at a bar in a town in the Grizzlies named Crenshaw Hills. Dutch tried to sell gold that his gang had recently stolen, but the deal went sour, leading to an altercation where Micah stepped in and saved his life. As a result, Micah was accepted into the Van der Linde gang. Despite being an experienced outlaw who was respected for his skill in combat, Micah was generally disliked within the gang; in particular, Arthur and Hosea saw him as argumentative, reckless and hot-headed, with Dutch alone taking a liking to him. It's very clear to me from the moment he saw Dutch, that Micah saw a mark. Someone he can profit off of and manipulate. See the problem with Dutch is how much of a narcissist he is. He is so vain and so delusional that there is always this plan. Dutch is a weak vain man and Micah manipulated him and milked him for all he's worth. Micah may have been the rat, but Dutch is responsible for everything that went wrong with the gang. -The Blackwater Ferry Job. It was Micah's idea. Arthur and Hosea had a rich real estate scam going on and Dutch went with Micah's idea, because one big score was just too big for Dutch to pass up. And when the job happened. Death happened. It began with Heidi McCourt's murder. "Micah encouraged it" as John would later say. Then Pinkertons swarmed in and it turned into a clusterfuck. Mac and John gets shot to hell, Sean gets captured, Jenny and Davey die. This was the beginning of the end. -If you go to his “hermit camp” by strawberry/monto’s rest, you can find a newspaper clipping about the Blackwater heist (150,000 dollars stolen), and Dutch’s wanted poster (1000 dollar reward) which tells me that his goal was to get Dutch arrested or killed, turn him in for clemency, and then go back and get the rest of the cash, which the newspapers/treasure chest imply he’s done the latter by the epilogue. -Throughout the game Micah constantly pesters Dutch and Arthur about picking up the money they left in Blackwater. From what we learn about Blackwater in the mission where we rescue Sean, Blackwater is completely overrun with Pinkertens. It’s practically their base of operations. -After you save Sean with Trelawny, there is a piece of dialogue at camp where Arthur tells Dutch that Trelawny told him there are posters of Dutch and Hosea all over Blackwater. Thing is, Hosea wasn't a part of the ferry heist. If you read Arthur's journal, he says that he and Hosea have been running a real estate scam while the gang was camped outside of Blackwater and that it was Dutch and Micah who were planning the ferry job. He even says that he's gonna have to sit the job out because he was too busy working with Hosea, which automatically tells us that Hosea skipped the ferry heist as well. So isn't it a little suspicious that the heist was carried out by Dutch, Micah and a group (likely Bill, Javier and maybe Sean and the Callanders) but the wanted posters all over town are of Dutch and Hosea? My theory is that Micah has already been working with the Pinkertons at this point and he acted as their mole in Dutch's whole operation. Then in this case specifically, the Pinkertons and Micah pretty much set Hosea up and had him take the blame for the heist as well, despite physically not being there. It would explain why Trelawny doesn't mention posters of Micah in Blackwater, despite him being pretty recognizable and definitely involved. -Micah's getting close to the O'Driscolls. After the prologue. The next time we see Micah, he's in jail in Strawberry. We break him out and the first thing he does is kill an O'Driscoll. Maybe Micah talked because he realized he was being hanged and the O'Driscoll offered him to join Colm and Micah accepted. And his little murder rampage in Strawberry started by killing the one guy who could rat him out to Arthur… an O’Driscoll he seemed quite chummy with in their cell. Also when they rob the Stagecoach, it’s the O’Driscolls who ambush them. But I believe it goes beyond that. I believe Colm and Micah knew each other before. He offered Micah a lot of money to destroy Dutch's gang from the inside out. -Micah's camp idea in Dewberry Creek. At the start of chapter 3 before Arthur and Charles found Clemons Point. Micah told Dutch about Dewberry Creek and when we find it, it's out in the open and indefensible. So my belief was that Micah was going to have the Pinkertons ambush the gang and pick them off one by one. -The Braithewaites vs Grays. I believe Micah gave Dutch and Hosea the idea to play both sides. The plan was to play it cool and keep things quiet, but Dutch, Hosea and Micah saw get rich quick scheme and fell for the rumored Confederate Gold. Eventually things got loud. Micah most likely told the Grays and the Braithewaites. Sean was killed and Jack was taken and in the end it was all for nothing because there was no gold. -The O'Driscoll "parley." The mission where Arthur gets captured by the O’Driscolls makes me very suspicious. It’s Micah’s suggestion to have Arthur go up on that perch where they seem to know where he is. Colm planned to sell out Dutch's gang to the Pinkertons, but who's to say him and Micah didn't have a deal going on? He sells everyone out and splits the reward with Colm I think the botched O’driscoll parley was definitely Micah’s intention. Did he want Arthur out of the way, was he hoping they’d kill Dutch, was he a double agent for the O’Driscolls or the Pinkerton’s? Who knows? -The O'Driscoll attack on Shady Bell. Before we begin. I had a thought. What if Micah took Kieran away from the camp. He promised to help him prove himself to Dutch and the rest of the gang. In reality, Micah handed Kieran over to the O'Driscolls to show what happens to traitors. Micah also gives them the location of the gang and they attacked. Isn't it a little suspicious that Micah is nowhere to be seen defending Shady Bell? -The Saint Denis Bank heist. It goes wrong fast. You can see Pinkerton agents before any shooting as you walk up to the bank at the end of chapter 4. I think some more proof of Micah being the rat is in the bank job where he is the only one not wearing black. I think him wearing white was his way of having the Pinkertons and the Law not shoot at him. And honestly I believe Micah wanted Hosea killed. If Hosea were there, he couldn't get into Dutch's head. He manipulated Dutch and just showering him in praises and making Dutch believe he's the only one on his side and that Arthur and John are snakes and that all we need is one last take. -Milton says Micah is the rat after Guarma, simply because Milton is too proud and vain to admit that someone like Micah Bell was responsible for foiling the bank heist in Saint Denis or going even further than that. -When Susan kills Molly, take a careful look at Micah. He looks fearful, but glad someone took the fall for him -Look where the gang is in chapter 6. In a cave. What did Arthur say at the beginning of chapter 3? "There ain't no way Dutch is gonna just hide away in a cave somewhere. Goes against everything he stands for. That'd be admitting we're nothing more than lowdown criminals." tensions high, everyone turning each other. Karen deteriorating, Dutch willing to let John hang, Dutch using Eagle Flies and the tribe for his own selfish wants and desires, Micah supplanting Cleet and Joe into the gang, Dutch not giving a damn about his first son dying a slow and painful death and Dutch leaving John behind on the heist and magically, the Pinkertons arrive when the tension finally reaches it's boiling point. -If you chose "go for the money" Arthur will tell Dutch "you let him damn us all" and you can see Micah visibly laughing To me Micah was playing everyone. Dutch, O'Driscoll and the Pinkertons. Micah literally says he only believes in winning and losing. Living and dying. Survivor. That's all there is. Micah literally told us he was the rat from the getgo. I think his consistent habit of being involved in things that go wrong is neither a coincidence nor an accident. His goal, as I see it, is to weaken the gang so he can collect the bounties and walk free. Let’s not forget that he seems to have his own lackeys waiting in the wings in Cleet and Joe. So yes. Micah was the rat from the start and the only rat and the fact that anyone is trying so hard and desperately to believe that Abigail was the rat is so fucking stupid. Micah was a real outlaw, Racist, Backstabber, selfish and knew his actions well. So why everyone wants another member to be a rat is just ridiculously stupid.

Here’s why I don’t but this theory: With the exception of the fishing trip, everyone of these events put triggerhappy, aggressive men at odds with triggerhappy, aggressive men. If Abigail was concerned enough about their safety to start scheming like that, it makes zero sense whatsoever for her to put John in harm’s way on multiple occasions. “I’m gonna save my husband by tipping the law off to his involvement in a violent train robbery” that’s a great way to get your husband killed. That said, I could see one or two instances of her colluding. Tipping the Pinkertons off to Jack’s outing with Arthur makes sense, because as you said that’s a non-violent encounter and the gunfighter who is there is NOT her husband. Her escape during the bank heist and John’s capture, I could see her giving info there. “I’ll help you get Dutch if you let me save my husband and child.” I also don’t think that Hosea would have ratted her out to Dutch right before his death, because Hosea seems to have enough integrity to know she was doing right by her family (he had a woman who he lost because of his lifestyle and I think he regretted it). Thus, she could have been A rat. However, I also think Milton was smart enough to figure a lot of this stuff out on his own. Like the fishing trip. Obviously, Dutch and his crew is operating in the area. They save Sean, all of a sudden there are heists in the area, the war with Colm sparks up. Good detectives would have guessed they were in or near Valentine because it’s a central location for all the trouble the gang is causing. Going on patrol and running into Arthur and Jack could easily have been a coincidence. And Milton wants Dutch. He’s the real catch. He’s willing to play the long game to get Dutch. As far as Cornwall, two of your trains get robbed in the same area around the same time and the descriptions of some of the people match… Idk how Cornwall figured out Dutch’s gang was the one doing either robbery (although I think he was working with the Pinkertons, right? That would explain that) but it doesn’t take a huge logical leap to go “okay, one of my trains got hit by this Dutch fellow, and then a week later another one of my trains gets hit in the same area… Dude. This Dutch guy keeps hitting my trains!!”

I’ve always questioned how Milton knew Dutch was responsible for the train robbery in the grizzlies. Under the assumption you killed all the guards then there wouldn’t be any witnesses and Colm’s gang had been in the area as well so it doesn’t make much sense how they knew it was Dutch and how they knew about Arthur being orphaned and raised by Dutch.

I think Micah saying he’s a survivor after Arthur calls him a ray on the mountain in pretty much him admiting it to him cuz there the only two there and it’s to late to do anything about it

At the time of the train robbery near the Lemoyne border Abigail and John didnt really speak at all. She was still mad at him being a crappy father. Even if, then in order to tell the authorieties she would have needed to leave camp - which she did not and also could not do bec auf Jack. Letting John end up in Sisika would also end her chances of ever having a normal life. Also ratting out the gangs whereabouts would not make sense since she and Jack got under fire in Lakay when Agent Milton turned up with a Maxim MG. Abigail being the rat is utter bullshit.

The Saint Dennis bank robery was foiled because they made too much noise. There was the succesful but bloody poker boat heist, then the failed Trolly station heist/setup. Then Dutch made it glaringly obvious something was gonna go down when he ordered the attack on Angelo Bronte which left a power vacuum allowing Agent Milton to move in freely.

One problem to the Abigail theory - we never see her leave camp except for the bank robbery in St. Denise. How would she pass along all that info?

I think it’s fair that both of them could be rats. Micah definitely is when you see his reaction to being found out, the wanted poster, the blackwater heist etc. but it could be that they also implied Abigail was as well

I feel like Micah could still be the one who tipped authorities off to John's train robbery. All Micah would have to know is which train and when. The details of where and what time are going to be as obvious to lawmen as it was for John to choose those details for their likelihood of a cleaner job. Finding a stopped train isn't going to be that difficult when you know it's going to be near the border (since trains have to stay on the track).

PLEASE stop with these ridiculous theories. Micah was the rat. Milton said "We picked him up when you boys came back from Guarma and he's been a good boy ever since." How do we know Milton didn't pick up Micah earlier? Milton was under no obligation to tell them every detail. How do we know Micah wasn't captured by Pinkertons before he joined the gang. After all he had Dutch's wanted poster in his little camp behind Strawberry. Notice how much of a kiss ass and boot licker he is with Dutch, maybe he's terrified he'll be suspected, Arthur never trusted him from the beginning. Micah is the most likely person to have ratted out the gang since he joined. All these theories about Abigail and John they carry no weight.

Abigail killing Milton makes a lot of sense too.

the writing on this game was masterful because years later and im still second guessing so much

Abigail didnt tell Arthur to take Jack fishing so imo that just dismantles that situation and there would be no way for her to know before hand

When someone tells you “they’re a survivor,” they’re indicating you’re disposable. If you can’t figure that out, you’re in for a rough ride.

The story really pushes Micah. Micah is too proud to snitch. No way he does that IRL but it is just a video game.

I have a hard time believing Abigail was the true rat… it would have been hard for her to fall off the map with John at the end of the game if she was a true informant. The other key is that I don’t think she would have taken too kindly to Hosea’s death. She was rather close to him. So DEFINITELY after the Guarma chapter I don’t think Abigail would have been obedient. And John being captured with an execution date soon approaching may have been a matter of who captured him? The Pinkerton or the Police in Saint Dennis? Also a dead man can’t provide information. Once Dutch and the others vanished, they may have postponed killing John until they determined he wouldn’t talk.

I don't think she'd give up Hosea. He was good to her. And we never see her leave camp.

I can't possibly entertain this theory after playing both games. It's just not what was portrayed on screen.

I don’t think Abigail was a traitor, but I know she was a little whoo-aah! 😂

I find your reasons to be flawed it reeks of having a result and finding reasons to justify it. In Science we call that bias In chapter 2: Abigial didn't know Arthur was going to go fishing + it was so close to camp she would've had to warn the pinkertons at least hours before, there were enough people in Valentine that could've recognized Arthur and Dutch as they had big prices in their head. Hell its litteraly part of the story with Jimmy Brooks. Even Micah being in West Elizabeth at the time could've tipped the pinkertons of where the gang was if you believe he was a rat before Guarma. And on the train job Well Sean I could see being the one who accidentally told a random person about it while being drunk, or Mary-beth got the info of a maid if I remember correctly and told Arthur about it in town someone could've heard them. but the one big lining I see is the gang wasn't exactly being cautious they thought they were safe. In chapter 3: Not enough info but The grays are litteraly the law in Rhodes, Dutch openly Communicating with them and the Braithwates could've given them plenty of time to warn the pinkertons or again Micah could've tipped them of. Chapter4: We don't know enough of Hosea and Abigails part in the Saint denis bank heist to say how tough it would've been for abigail to slip away. I see it in line with Hosea's character to let them catch him so Abigail can get away. Chapter 5: Guarma nothing of note except one big thing the shooting of Lakay at the end, Jack could easily be hit in that gunfight no way Abigail would've let that happen Jack could've easily been hit by the maxim honestly its a mircaly (pot armor) that no one got killed beside the Pinkertons. Who is in Lakay before Arthur, Micah Milton says they picked him up after Guarma so Micah let them there. Chapter 6: Abigail is basilicaly actively working with Arthur and John to get her family out of there while Micah is getting more and more inside Dutch's head making him have more and more knowledge and info on the gangs moves. I don't see Abigail being the rat, Jack is in too much danger in Lakay being the one red lining. Micah is the rat I believe he was the rat before Guarma but After Guarma he definitely was the rat.

This is an amazing video. I Heard the theory before but never with this much evidence/detail. That first piece of evidence with the newspaper is pretty damning. The motive was always there but the news article ties everything together pretty well and in conjunction to the fact that she somehow got away and Jon was taken alive in a gunfight that began with a captured Hosea being executed. If this is all true then I wouldn't say she is THE Rat, but A Rat. I believe the combination of both her and Micah manipulating things behind the scenes causing Dutch, Arthur, and John to irrevocably change with the rest of the gang as collateral damage to be an even more tragic and deep story than the one we have come to understand. Hell it even makes Abigail's arc entirely more dark and tragic.

if she's the rat she will not stick with the gang after the bank job gone wrong, after the gang return to guarma she immediately said to Dutch that John was captured

Honestly? No. Abigail would never put her son at risk (or even John) and both were in danger when the Pinkertons showed up every time we saw an interaction. Micah is pretty good in manipulating others, same as Dutch. And that these videos exist is another proof of it.

Fun Fact: For Us That Have 100% Completed Rdr2, The Moment John Returns Home Home We Get The Interaction For Abigail- “Make Love” ❤

Wait.....i thought that they found those plans to rob that train and dynamite when they tried to get Colm in one of the first missions....if that is what happened.... Colm could have went and told the law just to fuck with our boys's success in robbing that train.

You know the simplest and quickest way to prove abigail wasnt the rat? The pinkertons shot their temperary hideout to pieces with jack and her inside it Its different for micah as hes able to take care of himself but there is no way abigail would have allowed it to happen that way with Jack in the equation And that conversation with dutch in the caves of guarma is the game trying to draw our attention away from whats really happening. We know by this point its likely someone is tipping off the pinkertons and duch is voicing his suspicions, but the developers never play their hand so early, its to take suspicion away from micah

So if John is under some kind of protection, why when Milton shows up at Clements point does he have no idea who John is?

I think this is very circumstantial , in all seriousness Why would Milton tell Arthur it was Micah? He was assuming he was about to kill Arthur… why lie ?

one great flaw in this well plotted theory: why would Abigail betray the gang back when the story really starts regarding conspiracy theories about traitors, which is the Blackwater Robbery. Nothing to gain to rat the gang there and there's the starting point everybody thinks, as the Pinkertons were warned, is where the rat first makes its move. what would drove Abigail? what would drove Micah if he had so much to gain and he prepped the robbery so it would be more of a suspect than Abigail - still I don't believe he did it, he only had eyes for the money? What would John gain, being under fire as he was? And Williamson? Pearson? At this point no one seem to have reason to be a rat, but rockstar lead us to believe there was one. IMO the only rat ever was the gang behavior since blackwater (they literally had a high profile everywhere they went, leaving behind them traces of blood, town after town) and how bad it was lead by a presumptuous, mythomaniac, paranoid and ever more and more out of control of his psychological abilities like Dutch Van der Linde. As Arthur puts it in Annesburg speaking to Dutch and Micah, there's no need for a rat when they as a whole, worstened by a failure of leadership, become so sloppy the Pinkertons only had to follow the bread crumbs left behind.

Before they came back from Guarma they didn't need a rat lol. Arthur said it himself they always basically ran through a new town with banners flying being loud af Abigail definitely wasn't the rat.

Outside of the tipoff mentioned in the newspaper, which could be a mistake, I don't think anyone tipped off the law about Johns train job. More than likely the law that shows up were the men who were going to be on the train once it crossed the boarder. It was late and the men decided to wonder down the tracks and investigate. Simple as that.

The problem is with the tip off to the train robbery, WHEN would Abigail leave to tip off authorities? She has to stay at camp for Jack and even jn the game John says he is always running into town FOR Abigail so there isn't really an oppurtunity for her to leave. Leviticus Cornwall also could've said "keep" because he can compare to the previous robbery and base it off that. He could also just be blindly guessing because Cornwall isn't exactly stupid, you don't get rich like him unless you know how to exploit people which requires intellegence. Abigail never had an oppurtunity to become a rat and Cornwall was probably just guessing.

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Micah quite literally confesses while fighting arthur. And then why would we get a whole mission where we murder micah in the most badass way if he wasnt the rat. Cmon now

i mean if she couldnt keep her legs closed why would she keep her mouth closed

I have a theory what if hosea was the bank job rat. Now i know it might seem odd but think about it hosea was very persistent on robbing the bank he continuously tried to convince dutch to do it and hosea already knew that gang was starting to crumble around this time and dutch's mental state was deteriorating. definitely didn't have to look up how to spell that. So i think hosea might've made a deal with milton to try to get him to leave hoses and i'd assume the rest of the gang alone in exchange for dutch since milton had previously mentioned he only wanted dutch. Id assume the "diversion" hosea created during the robbery could've been a signal for the pinkertons that the bank was being robbed. Now id assume milton backstabbed him since he has all of them cornered in the bank why not just take/kill all of them. But thats just a theory A GAME THEORY!

In the saint denis bank robbery i think hosea sacrificed himself in order for abigail to escape

How about in the epilog when she tells john shes going to work at the Drs office in strawberry to clean it but yet if you go there when she should be working there is a sign on the door that says gone fishing!

I think all your points are wild stretches, Micah not being the rat I could see but Abagail no way, John was unknown to the Pinkerton at the St Denis bank robbery and once he was subdued there wouldn’t be the same reason to kill him as Hosea, and the Pinkertons wouldnt waste men on chasin her if they had Hosea and knew they were about to be in a shootout with a hardened gang of skilled guns

Bill Williamson did it altho Micah is the Pinkerton Informant Micah prob lead them Astray but when Bill knows they could offer him anything like in RDR1 when he said "we all wanted you Dead John" he's talking about Pinkertons not Van Der Linde Gang

“A protagonist that’s nearly universally loved.” Watching reactions of female and gay letsplayers taught me that. Arthur is a Man’s Man’s Man.

I just realized that RDR2 is the only story mode I’ve ever beaten, also the only I’ve ever completed.

I’ve been saying this for years! Well done

People point out Hosea and Lenny well I always assumed that Hosea was executed to intimidate the gang and Lenny was gunned down because of one word racism there was a lot of racists back then

It's funny too how the mission where Micah robs a stagecoach with Arthur it's one of the few to really make a lot of money proportional to the risk involved. I think it's correct though that it's just more of a story about how their way of life is over, Dutch and the Gang's time is up and he refuses to see it. Tbh I think it would have been more profound to this story if like Bronte got away with it. They're going against people much stronger then them, or Cornwall.

17:56 This scene I think is after Micah has convinced Dutch that less people means more money. It would be natural for Dutch to be greedy, but also eliminate anyone from the gang that even remotely questions he orders. i.e. John, Arthur, Hosea, even Lenny.

The second rat was the ódriscoles they found the gang at horseshoe overlook cause of Kieran, kieran disappeared one night and brought the odriscoles to the camp. Colm started taking offers from the pinkertons. Colm meets with Dutch to kidnap Arthur, Hosea said it was a set up, Dutch thought killing colms brother was their beef but colm said he never like his brother. Colm almost kills Arthur In that basement, Colm revealed he’s working under the pinkertons and that they are coming up to the valentine area, in that basement. That would make sense for pinkertons to show up when Arthur takes jack fishing.

So not only do you show off the scene where Abigail WANTS to go with Arthur and Sadie to break John out of Prison, NEAR the end of the game, AND IGNORE that fact? Yeah your logic is flawed as hell in these videos. I've tried because I like RDR2 content, but saying both Arthur didn't redeem himself when it's the damn title of the video game, and I wouldn't doubt it if someone within the cast or R* themselves finally said the truth, but the whole "Yeah Abi is the rat, the feds wouldn't LIE to you now, would they? After dealing with the indians, I'm sure they're pure of heart!" Whatever man. Downvote me with a nuke if you want, I just can't agree with this shit.

It could well be her, it could also be John Marston, considering how long he's away and is working for the police come the time of the first game. They knew him awfully well, didn't they? The problem for me is how nobody helped Micah have a little 'accident' while leaving the camp, no they all hated him but left him to keep being a cartoon villain? It felt, and still feels contrived purely for reasons of plot.

Maybe jack was the real rat!? He disguise as a innocent kid so that no one gonna suspect him😮😮

Its interesting but I dont think it holds enough water; it all puts Jack in too much danger, especially right after Guarma when the pinkertons open fire with a Maxim gun on the building where she and Jack are, at the very least she wouldve stopped working with them then

Pearson always struck me as odd. He was the only male gang member that seemingly lived without consequences seeing as he openly operated a general store in the end. Bill too considering they are the only two with government ties via the military

I like how even rdr content creators forget molly excited 😂

Did we all play the same game??? Rockstar could tell us a banana is yellow and y'all would still say its blue. Micahs the rat. Why would Milton lie. He had sadie fucked up. Abigail tied up and Arthur at his mercy. What the hell can he destroy from the inside out??? He had all the power at that moment. Its also really dumb to say Abigail would want him in person to be safe. ESPECIALLY SINCE HES BEEN TALKED ABOUT BEING HUNG . 10/10 logic in this video. My man played the story and still thought this video needed to be made

The problem is with Cornwall turning up for the train and pointing out multiple train robberies is that we do know for a fact there were at least two train robberies one was John’s job the but you can’t forget there was a job much earlier where you do rob a train

I figured Abigail was a rat, and then I thought about it for 5min and then was like, "nah, that doesn't hold up".

Honestly kind of dumb premise to even bring up Jack and Arthur at the river - because what an insane risk to offer her only son as a potential hostage or victim. Arthur seems to have strong moral impulsions - if the Pinkertons tried to take Jack, he’d definitely start shooting. And why on Earth risk her son in that way? Completely irreparable hole.

If Abigail is a rat, then Bonnie is Edgar’s informant sent to look after John in RDR1.

I know people say that Micah is the rat because there’s more proof but what if the game developers are purposefully trying to throw us off? I don’t know who the rat is anymore. Maybe it’s both of them. 🤷‍♀️

It's a pretty big stretch to say that Abigail would send law enforcement on missions where John is going to be involved. What probably would have happened if she actually was the rat is she would talk with the agents and accept the offer of a few thousand dollars for information on where Dutch is, like they offered to Arthur. Then she would send John into town on some errand, then she would sneak Jack out of the camp, probably also with the gangs money if she could get her hands on it. You might ask why Micha wouldnt do the same/similar thing. Well because Micha wouldnt of had a choice. If like Milton said they arrested Micha after coming back from the Caribbean, Micha the "survivor" he is would have no choice but to go along with whatever they said, and what they had him do was go back to the gang and try to break it apart as much as possible, and that is basically exactly what he did.

> They literally said Micah was the rat > Even if he wasn't, Dutch and co were so careless and stupid they didn't even need a rat, they made more than enough noise on their own already to bring half the lawmen in the country sniffing for their bounty.

Nah, Micah was the Rat along with Molly. I think Micah wanted his own Gang back, needed Money for that and started to spy on Dutch early on in Blackwater. He tracked the Gang, got as much information as he could. He knew Arthur and John were Obstacles that had to be dealt with one way or another. He used Molly to distract Dutch while she cashed in from the Pinkertons. That's how she afforded her expensive Outfits while living as Outlaw. Micah was all about the Blackwater money while trying to get as many members as possible killed. He just didn't expect Dutch hiding the money in the city. So he continued to sell the Gang out while Molly actually started to develop feelings for Dutch. After Beaver Hollow I think that Micah blackmailed and manipulated Dutch to the Point where he suffered from Stockholm Syndrome and that's why he didn't kill Micah. Only when John confronted him he did it. But just to be over and done with it

To me it doesn’t make much sense from a story perspective. Having the game pretty much confirm in multiple ways (both subtly and directly) that Micah is the rat only for it to secretly be Abigail the whole time would be a strange choice. Besides, if Abigail wanted out she could just leave. Hell John left the gang for a whole year. Dutch himself said he’s not forcing anyone to stay. If Abigail, John, and Jack wanted out all they had to do was leave, especially since Milton didn’t even know who John was until Chapter 3, much less Abigail who never leaves camp. There’s just so much about the theory that doesn’t make sense. Micah doesn’t even deny being the rat when confronted in the epilogue. The only time he denies it is in front of Dutch or the rest of the gang to get them on his side. He straight up murders Susan, which I feel is because of her having no tolerance for traitors as with the Molly situation. He had to get Susan out of the picture and took the chance to kill her. Micah was the one in Dutch’s ear. Notice that Micah is nowhere to be found during the Pinkerton assault in Chapter 5 until after it’s over, which coincidentally is supposed to be right after the Pinkertons pick him up as a spy. The case for Micah being the rat is just so much stronger than Abigail. That and the game is literally spelling it out for us that Micah has been ratting since at least Chapter 5.

OK...I honestly never understood this line of logic. Why would a loving mom like Abigail willingly sell out to the Pinkertons who she knows are lying bastards hiding behind a badge for that slim chance of saving her son? Any smart mom would take the kid, leave the gang, and start over somewhere else. A smart mom wouldn't take a chance on her son's safety, especially with someone like Milton. Abigail is a lot of things but stupid isn't one. Her priority might be her family but she's not going to take a deal that she knows is rigged to kill her

After they said that there was probably a rat, I think it was kinda obvious as the player that it was Micah. He was the only person in the gang who Arthur genuinely did not like at all and I never actually thought it was molly in my playthrough because it was resolved way too easily

There’s a lot I can poke at here, but I’m gonna speculate a bit myself. Obviously it’s never mentioned, but I’m pretty sure Hosea just covered Abigail’s escape. She loves him too much to serve him up to the law, even for John.

Usually, people that teaches morality codes do not follow those code themselves. Dutch is portrait as that kind of person for me sense minute 1 in the game. "Revenge is a fools game" as Arthur learn from Dutch, but Dutch seeks revenge on Colm sense the beginning of the game with the Train Rob, the Assault to O'Driscoll camp in the snow. About the "rats". Maybe wasn't just 1 rat, probably more gang members speak with the pinkertons. Micah as is told in the game, Molly maybe didn't say anything to the Pinkertons but the follow her to the camp somehow, Abigail may has been forced, or Blackmailed in the event of Saint Denis bank(she was with Hosea in that event). Javier doing some bussimes with pinkertons to return to Mexico without price on his head and some help for the Mexican revolution. Anyone could be the "Rat".

To me it wasn't just one rat like many people think but multiple. Like maybe Abigail ratted the gang out a little but Micah did as well as Molly. If you said that 1 person was the rat that caused everything to go wrong is to much of a stretch to me

I think Arthur know about Abigail’s plan to steal the money from Dutch and told John to “never look back and go”.

So how would do the Pinkertons know who John is during the bank robbery like you said Milton doesn’t know who John is and he would have to go off by a description all those guards were shooting and could have easily killed John no

At the end in the cutscene you shows at the start of the video, he literally snitches on himself. ‘I survive black lung’

3:15 I still think it was Micah the whole time, but that doesn't mean Abigail wasn't a rat, as well. This would perfectly explain why Abigail, John, and Jack are able to go into Blackwater without the law immediately on their azzes.

I feel like it’s hard to make a prequel for such an immense and lore filled game. Marston was captured in Saint Denis to keep the story alive. Its hard to say

I don't think she is because she would never trust send Jack to the river with Arthur knowing he would find agent Milton and Ross there. She would find a way to send Arthur alone to go there.

I do believe the coincidences really align towards John nd Abigail, but I do think that the writers intentionally made it look that everything that had happened in Saint Denis robbery is Abigail's doing... It makes more sense, and shock factor, with the reveal of who's the real rat.

"to your good health" damm

Although these do seem convincing I still don't think she would be a rat

Leviticus Cornwall also had a wagon we could rob. I think its a Clemens Point quest. That's what you keep robbing me means.

john went missing for a year why is it hard to imagine that in that year away he turned rat

10:18 Leviticus Cornwall is a railroad and oil baron. Very rich and very powerful.... He most likely had lawmen secretly on his payroll to feed him info from all the towns and counties. The powerful and wealthy of the world are powerful and wealthy because they make sure to have eyes and ears everywhere.... This is the golden rule of money and power, and also, "Loose lips sink ships." Knowledge is only power when it is in the hands of a very very few.

(long comment warning) I think the most reasonable scenarios are that Micah was the rat or there was no rat. It doesn't make a ton of sense for Abigail to sic the law on the oil wagon train heist crew; John could have easily been killed. If Sean found out about the heist, anyone at the camp could have heard. This even assumes the newspaper clipping is telling the truth: the journalist could've been lied to by the lawmen, as well. It makes the law seem more competent to pretend they have tendrils everywhere. The most compelling explanation to me is that Mary-Beth was simply given a bad tip by an undercover or someone who tipped off the law afterwards when they became suspicious of her questioning, and didn't involve the rat at all (or there wasn't one). Also, giving the Pinkertons a general location for the Horseshoe Overlook camp doesn't make much sense. If she did and they desired to speak with Arthur, there's no reason they couldn't flag him down as he was leaving or arriving from other business; no reason for them to wait because Abigail told them to. Anyway, I think it's much more reasonable, if they had a general location of the Horseshoe Overlook camp, they would have just searched for it and rocked up when they found it; they offered the same deal to everyone that wasn't Dutch, anyway. To say nothing of the fact that Arthur could have said "no" to Abigail about taking Jack fishing (he's about the busiest guy in camp). Lastly, a tense conversation between Milton, Ross and Arthur is a lot to willingly send your son into; anything could happen. I don't see her motivation.

So how would Abigail been able to leave the camp, get to some town and then convince them to get to the train and still make it there in time for the robbery. It's not like she had a phone to telephone the Pinkertons. Besides, this whole video makes no sense since every one of these situations was putting John's life in danger-the train robbery, the bank robbery and going to prison where he certainly would have been sent to the gallows.

Jack was the rat. Just think about it. He wouldn't be suspected considering he's a kid and has a lot to protect, his mother, Cain, His story books and many other things

Turns out Uncle was the rat the whole Damn time

the fact you don't use the legendary bear hat makes me really sad

how did micah snitch on the bank robbery if he was picked up after guarma which was after the bank

The guy at the sheep auction most likely told on John and Arthur when they brought the sheep in , because the Leviticus scene happened right after they brought them in. I don’t think it was John or Straus. I still think Micah is the rat , the game developers would’ve pointed us towards someone else if it wasn’t Micah , I mean we can have all these thoughts on different things in the game , but it’s a game that some people put together , if there was any secrets about who was the real rat , it would’ve came out in the epilogue don’t you think. That’s what I think anyway. And in fact it did , that’s why Micah died at the end. Even Dutch figured it was him that’s why he shot him. 👍👍👍✌️✌️✌️

I'm just going to say too. The cutscene never shows anyone. Untying Abigail when she kills Milton and I'm pretty sure Sadie was still knocked out on the ground

Great video. I don’t agree with Abigail being the rat. But you made some good points. Very strong analysis.

the real rat was Jack

There were multiple rats IMO. Micah, Molly, Abigail, Pearson, Mary-Beth, Sean and/or Mac

I don't think Abigail is the rat. Thru the whole game she talks about how she wants to take her family away from it all and i don't think she'd do anything to risk losing Jon and especially her son. Also, she wouldn't risk Arthur getting caught. Arthur and Jon are at odds over the fact Jon left her and Jack for a year and Arthur acts like a second father to Jack, so tho i believe she'd not sweat Dutch getting caught she wouldn't risk anything happening to Arthur or Jon for fear of hurting Jack.

Abigail didn’t tell them to go fishing. She didn’t know they were heading down there. She wouldn’t have endangered Jack, John, Hosea, Arthur, or the girls. The shot at her and Jack in Lakay. I was enjoying your videos and just about to subscribe to this channel until you made this wackadoodle video with this unfounded theory. Micah was the rat, he never bothered to defend himself on that, and the Pinkerton’s knew right where his hideout was before even talking to anyone.