Thank you for this video. Few businesses would share the knowledge of their professional experience so generously. Indeed, most would guard their knowledge as a trade secret. Of course, even with the benefit of your tips, my EP ability won't improve remotely enough to obviate my need for or appreciation of your masterful edges. Nor will a competitor suddenly develop your eye and touch. Thank you.
I've been hand-sharpening for some time but there is always room for improvement so I have an Edge Pro Apex on the way. I chose that system because it seems closest to hand-sharpening but offers the opportunity for more precision. This video gave me more information to avoid mistakes, together with specific examples, than any others I've seen. I'll look for more of your videos. Thank you for the time and work it took to create them.
I recently switched from a Wicked Edge to an Edge Pro Professional. It took me about 5 knives to get a feel how my hands wanted to do each job and after about 20 or so I feel I am about equally good with my dominant hand as my off hand for either aspect of the work. I think the thing that helped most with my sharpening consistency as I moved from side to side and stone to stone was to make some sort of indexing mark on each side of the spine of the knife that I would align with the edge of the knife stop and then bring the belly/tip of the knife to cover the table. Of course this only works with pocket knives you don't need to move. Using a sharpie marker occasionally as a sanity check for your angle compensation is also smart. The nice thing about the Edge Pro is that it has really taught me the importance of not bearing down with my stones. You're not going to have a good time if you death grip the knife and the stone arm. Relaxing and using as little pressure as necessary with both hands gives you a better feel for the sharpening process and a more consistent result.
@@707SonomaComa Hey man. Yeah, my opinion is still the same. It's a really nice machine but I think it's kind of in an unhappy middle ground. I found that the sear size of the machine made sharpening smaller knives difficult: the size of the machine and the position in which the knife is held makes it hard to see how the bevel is developing. On the other hand, if you are sharpening a really big edge, then you have to watch out for the blade flexing or worse, loosing track of where the tip is. In short, if I was only going to sharpen pocket knives, I'd probably stick with something like a KME (you can absolutely get results as good as Wicked Wedge on this) and if I was looking to sharpen a really varied selection of edges, I would get an Edge Pro
Many years later..... Great job Rob. Thank you! Thanks Daniel too. On the 940 wouldn't it make sense to remove the thumbs-up. Seems like he had it angled to miss the studs and was coming in too hot.. Time for a bgm regrind. Did you mention to run the blade apex across an upside down coffee cup to eliminate the apex prior to sharpening. You inspired me to get my spydercos realed in at the plunge. Thanks ...for that humbling. Dang that is nice work.
Fantastic summary of things to DO, and maybe more importantly, things NOT to do. I had learned some of this the hard way myself, but this video really rounded out my knowledge. First time I've seen the idea of the choil extension, and use of a chainsaw tool in a Dremel is clever and effective in careful hands. Thank you.
Rob, great video man. Very informative and helpful. I am a kme user. The biggest struggle I have is maintaining that bebel the entire length of the blade from side to side. Meaning from one side of knife to the other. Thank you for making this video. Hopefully there are more.
Thank you for making this video. I have watched all of your edgepro tutorials multiple times. I was really hoping you would make another video featuring The edgepro considering I received my edgepro 3 weeks ago. I'm halfway through my crappy knives I bought from the the thrift shop LOL. Thanks to your tips I'm ready to move on to the Spyderco and ZTS
Thanks so much for putting together these videos, Rob. Your advice and experiences have heavily informed my progression in the art of sharpening over the past 3 years to a tremendous degree. A number of things you share in this video are things I've already learned the hard way, but I'd like to add to one in particular to hopefully spare others my anguish: when doing a choil extension with the Dremel, HOLD THE KNIFE WITH BOTH HANDS AT ALL TIMES!!! I straight-up ground off large chunks of the edge of a Kershaw Cryo 2 and an ESEE Candiru as they ran away from me because I had another hand doing something else at a time. The Candiru was thankfully salvageable (although it has a profoundly jacked up bevel reveal now), the Cryo 2 I just gave up and made a massive forward finger choil out of it (surprisingly ergonomic, actually). I know it's been a couple weeks, but if you're still taking comments/requests, I still have one significant issue you didn't really address here: On almost every blade I've done with a microbevel, the edge is quite sharp when fresh but dulls within just a couple weeks and stropping/honing only brings it back to a relatively pale shadow of its original sharpness. I've tried a number of different maintenance techniques and am about as confident as I can be that I am indeed stropping and honing the micro and not just polishing the primary. The only thing I can think that I might be doing wrong is too much discrepancy between my primary and micro angles (I've done a few AUS-8 and 8Cr blades at 17 Primary, 21 Micro and a Sheepsfoot 154CM Mini-Grip at 15/20). Because of this, I've basically given up on microbevels in all but the hardest-use case and instead pursue a more conservative single bevel. This works, but I can't help thinking this still isn't how it's supposed to be. Any insight you could provide on what I may be doing wrong would be exceedingly appreciated. Again, thank you so much for doing these videos. There's frustratingly little out there going into the specifics of how to bring edges to the next level - particularly on these systems - and especially the pitfalls inherent with them. I am extremely grateful I started off just doing $10-$20 knives before moving on to more expensive stuff because I did absolutely ruin more than a couple. You are directly responsible for re-kindling my decade-dead passion for knives and moving into the joy and challenge of the sharpening experience.
Rob great video very helpful. You really know your sharpening. Helpful hints and tips from sharpening who knows how many knives.keep it up and thanks again.
Very pleased with you making this video. Good to get back to what we’re here for most. At least in my mind. Thanks Rob as well as for all your personal advice. I just wish I could master the super steels convex sharpening but despite your excellent videos on the subject I have yet to master or even come close.
Really amazing and enlightening video! I’m just getting started in serious sharpening and am learning how much more there is to It than I ever realized. Lots to learn! Thank you!
Great video Rob, very helpful. One issue that I have had to learn to focus on, is when using a sharpener that has a clamp, especially when sharpening a full flat ground blade, is making sure you get the blade centered perfectly in the clamp, or else you end up with one side having a steeper angle than the other
Brilliant thanks I'm on a budget and have ordered the Lansky sharpening system as an intro. I know it's not much but I'm excited for it to arrive so I can start. Ive learnt different things from different videos. Lots from this, but buy cheap second hand to practice on. I'll be doing that.. Thanks
You know practice definitely makes a good sharpener out of a person but more importantly I believe is PATIENCE! PATIENCE is extremely important. Will your hand get tired sharpening...yes. will it take longer than you thought...yes. if you dont have patience you will never be proficient at sharpening.
So I have found that 3M 3350 tape is awesome for knife prep. Actually, bought some for an A/C job and it's worthless for that because it is not foil tape(though it does look like it it is metalized mylar), but for knife prep it is amazing just because of it's excellent waterproof adhesion, toughness, and it is super thin to boot. Oh and it's also easily applied to the blade, and it pays to take it past the blade all the way to the handle for protection of the handle...again, this is not aluminum foil tape it is like metalized mylar and so super thin and easily formed it rocks! win win give it a shot
so I was sharpening a knife on my lanskey and apparently I didn't knock the burr off so I had to go back over and knock it off the knife is scary sharp right now but you will learn in free hand sharpening if you have a burr or not
Great vid! I have been trying to learn with my EPA but have some consistency and point issues. This will definitely help, would love to see how you do the Para 2. I have gotten better with my Para 2's but still need some work.
Great video lots of great points the only one I could think to add would be on my 940 specifically in my learning days I sometimes need to remove the thumb stud now I don’t have an edge pro I have a KME The other bad habit I have is not having enough patience to slow down wanting to get it done quicker usually means all of those mistakes and possibly more
I have learnt myself on DC4 I haw gained my Vg10 Kizer but in 2month I had a grip and now I use it only light on my 940 or just strop it and its razor sharp .
Not really Benchmades fault that someone (not Rob) messes up the sharpening? Yes Benchmade could be better for sure but those examples are not Benchmade a fault they are clearly the person who sharpened.
I know this is an older video but I would be interested in a tip repair tutorial. Some other RU-vidrs have content like this where they Take very high angles to grind out broken and blunted tips and then reduce their angle to the final degree and match it with their primary angle. I do find it very time consuming to try and sharpen a tip back to pointedness without changing an angle. i'd be interested to hear what you have to say on this.
When you talk about say 17 degree bevel on those knifes is that on the secondary bevel or the final micro bevel. It gets a little confusing because I watched your video on micro bevels but on say this video I don't know what bevel your talking about.It would be nice for you describe if you use a micro bevel almost all the time. Also it would be nice for you to do a video on once you profile and get what you consider a perfect edge how do you maintain and sharpen it going forward. For example do you only touch up the micro bevel or both bevels. What stones do you use for maintenance ? Maybe a very detailed video on how to keep them sharp once you get them all dialed in the first time. I think I have watched all your apex sharpening video's and they are very good. Thank You
I talked to Gayle Bradley on the phone a few years ago probably 8 years ago about that he said he talked to another knife maker and one of them does the show side of the blade very well and the other one did the reverse side very well they each had a side they didn't do so well and they joked that they should get together and sharpen knives lol but I do the same thing the show side of the blade I do very well in the other side I have to be very very careful and I still make mistakes on it of the getting the angle perfect I can still get the knife sharp but the angles aren't exactly the same on each side but I have got a good angle on both sides so I can still get it sharp enough that I'm very happy with and it's very good but I'm a work in progress.. I did ruin a lot of good knives when I first got back into knife collecting about 10 years ago after having strokes. I had to relearn everything from the beginning and I wish I would have had that advice of getting some crappy steak knives and ruining those instead of Pro-Tech and other expensive knives I didn't ruin them to the point that they were junk but I definitely made a convex bevel back then before I knew what I was doing wrong I wasn't taking my time and getting it right I didn't have the mental capacity to do that. I should have sent them to you to have them worked right but anyway those knives are gone.
Hey Rob great vid, I'm fairly handy with my EPA but I've been doing some convex edges and I have a slight concern that I will continually increase the angle making it more and more obtuse how do I avoid this?
As a freehand sharpener who's been doing convex edges lately: Variation has been a marketing argument by fixed angle systems for some time. They often take it to rediculous lengths, making it sound like the angle will change more and more with each freehand sharpening until one day you find yourself cutting a 90 degree angle on your stones and wondering why your edge won't cut. Of course, this is silly on the face of it, but I think people have this notion in their heads now that the variation of freehand sharpening will compound, rather than always staying within a certain range. With a convex edge, the most obtuse you want to go is the desired angle of your cutting edge. Everything else is shaping the approach to the apex. I pick the edge angle by feeling with my hand at what angle I want the blade to start to bite in, and that's the most obtuse angle I use. Do I vary by a degree give or take between sharpenings? Probably. But never more than that, because that comfortable angle at which I want the knife to bite in is always pretty much the same.
One thing I would like to add Rob: For the new sharpeners out there, SLOW DOWN when you are sharpening. Let the stones do the work. You'll get more life out of the stones as well. I've seen many videos where people are trying to power grind metal off to reduce their sharpening time. Enjoy the Zen moment of putting stone to steel and pay close attention to how you are affecting the edge.
Just got an edge pro for my 940 and I could not for the life of me figure out why it was creating a recurve! My 940 now looks like the one in this video... The solution seems so plain and simple now. Lol Any advise on correcting that bowl?
Lots of helpful info esp. the sharpie trick between grits. Maybe a video on which to use the tang or the flats on different knives and how to hold consistently for even sharpening.
Matthew Bernier Not rocket science, Matt. I just ride the edges of the stones through the recurve area. It eats up stones quickly, because then you have to flatten all that radius you wore on the corners of the stones. That’s why I barge $5 extra for recurve blades.
Now I’m a brother in the Lord, and I will make you this promise. I will not touch my new. 940-1 Osborne. That Knife has your name all over it I will not let anyone touch it, and if you don’t have the time to do it it’s going to be stuck with the factory edge forever
Excellent video. Wish I could have seen this before I attempted my 940-1 on my wicked edge. I have the flare at the choil. I'm at 18* and it's pretty straight but I stropped too steep and the polish is wide. How can I fix?
Good info. How to find the actual angle on a FFG knife with no flat could be helpful. I don't have an Edge Pro, but I could see where that could be difficult to find on the EP.
great vid Rob, please educate us further, please do tell why you thing edge pro is better system then wicked edge, and please show us how to flatten stones in more detail, thanks
Two other topics that just hit me I (and I presume others) could really use some help on: 1. What, if any, compensations need to be made for traditional knives with blades at an odd angle from the handle (think Swiss Army Knives and Congress-style traditionals that nest their blades at diagonal angles)? 2. What methods do you use for blades that are extremely thin and narrow? I already own the EP Short-blade attachment, but it's not enough for blades like the Victorinox Mini Classic or a Peanut or Tiny Toothpick traditional (or the small secondary blades on a host of other traditional patterns). Even after removing the plastic clip, the stone strikes the top forward edge of the blade rest, not the blade itself. I read something in the EP documentation about constructing some sort of shim to lay between the blade and the EP's blade table, but my efforts cannibalizing credit cards and taping them together have gone poorly to say the least.
36.40 - "What have we not covered"? It'd be nice to see a tutorial based solely on re-curve blades (eg ZT0350 etc..) - great video and thanks for posting.
Could you give advice about avoiding a widening of the bevel at the tip? the tip was the hardest part for me to learn. I started out on a sharpmaker and would keep my knife perfectly parallel and would never hit the tip. so I would work the tip so much my bevel would get really wide. I learned I needed to slightly rotate the handle inward.
I found that lionsteel knives have a variation of edge thickness behind the edge which causes a variation in the broadness of the final edge if that makes any sense. Don’t see any way to correct that other than regrinding the knife which would kill the steel hardness likely killing the knife so I just live with the variation even though it is fairly slight. ?
Those two 940’s need a re-blade! I couldn’t imagine messing those expensive knives up like that! 😮, Spyderco is almost as bad with the plunge grind or just as bad!
Caleb Termorshuizen This customer didn’t send these in for me to sharpen. He wanted me to use his knives to make this video so he could learn how his mistakes happen and what to do to get better.
Thats too bad, I love watching restorations/tune up videos. Anyway keep up the good content, really enjoyed this video and I learned some good information.
barcibus Great question, and on I don’t believe anyone has ever asked. The answer: the Spyderco standards - Para 2 & 3, Manix, Delica and Endurance, as well as others with full flat grinds. They’re made to cut, sharpen and use more than any other brand.
@@TheApostleP thanks for the reply! Regarding the paras, could they make the blade shapes even friendlier to sharpening if they removed that shoulder that sticks out at the top of the ricasso? Or added a choil just above it?
I've been watching your videos since you were fairly new and I really enjoy them! I was watching j Davis and your videos....it seemed like you learned alot from jdavis? Maybe I'm wrong...well I learned alot from both of you. What happened to Mr. Davis? That young man really knew how to use anything to sharpen a knife.
locksmith db He had a rather unfortunate and ugly demise from the RU-vid knife community. It came about when he transitioned to full time knife making. There were orders taken, money paid, very few knives delivered, and disappearance of Mr. Davis from view. I’m. It sure what exactly happened, but it is very sad for all concerned. But you’re right, many of us learned a lot from John.
Here's another question. I recently sharpened my new spyderco manix 2 sprint run. On the tip/front part of the knife, the angle looks like it went down from ~17 degrees to 14-15 degrees. I dot know why? I sharpened it on the ack flat part of the knife.
Jeffrey Weber There is no handling those two. The blades are already sharpened beyond their usable life. Notice how the choil is totally used up. They both need new blades.
Awesome video!! I always wondered how you did choil mods. I have an extensive high end knife collection and have been slowly working my way up to sharpening the more expensive ones. My issue is knowing what angle to use. I have been using 20 degrees for everything. I notice you sharpen around 16 and 17. How do I know what angle to use?
Chief Chuf I should have been more specific. I can figure out the factory angle with no issues. I have read that depending on the type of steel, the thickness of the blade stock and what the knife is being used for determines the angle you choose to use. Am I way off base on this assessment?
Chris Franks I don't claim to be an expert, but from what I've learned, I'd advise a combination of experimentation and maybe some internet research to see what people are getting out of knives similar to yours. Thickness of the blade stock doesn't matter nearly as much as thickness behind the edge as far as what sharpening angle to choose, but blade stock thickness and grind can have a big influence on what level of general performance is reasonable to expect. If the grind is too obtuse, the blade can become a wedge through resistant media like wood and cardboard regardless of how sharp the actual edge is. I have an ESEE Candiru that will split standing hairs on the edge, but is a mediocre performer through cardboard because the shoulders of the saber grind drag through the media. Opens mail and cuts paracord like a boss, though. First off, (for non-kitchen knives): in my experience almost anything will be happy with an 18 degree per side edge - it is a substantial improvement over the oft-recommended 20 and can be brought back in a hurry on Spyderco Sharpmaker for touch-ups if you have one. I'd consider that a more favorable place to start unless it's a knife you intend for serious abuse. How far to go beyond that is indeed very strongly dictated by your intentions for the knife and the characteristics of the blade's steel. If you intend to do a lot of chopping, sticking at that 18 (or even going wider) and possibly adding a microbevel might be the way to go. If all the knife is going to do is open mail, 15 or 16 might be a more logical choice. Going beyond 16 degrees per side or so on anything less than 60hrc has always gone poorly for me. As Rob references in this video, really top flight steel can potentially start moving into the 11-14 range. Microbevels can be used to stabilize more aggressive angles, but I've had generally poor luck with microbeveling and have almost given it up outright. The three most important lessons I've learned (the hard way, as I learn most things) when it comes to picking angles is: 1. What blade steel is used is far less important than its actual heat-treated hardness. Both my ESEE Izula 2 and the aforementioned Candiru needed to be re-done because I saw "1095" the first time and assumed I was dealing with the same 1095 in my kitchen knives and traditionals. ESEE designs their knives to be bomb-proof (and they really are), but achieving that durability comes at a cost: they're only 55-57hrc. They just couldn't hold at 15 degree primaries with a 19 degree micro to my satisfaction. I switched them to a straight 18* degrees per side with no micro to attain the performance I wanted with adequate edge retention. 2. 18 degrees per side on a blade that's .030" behind the edge is NOT the same thing as 18 degrees per side on a blade that's .020" BTE. I put an asterisk on my last point for a reason: in order to get my much thicker behind the edge saber-ground Candiru to behave similarly at the edge to my full flat ground Izula 2, I had to crank it up to 17 degrees per side. The results were edges of similar thickness and support (and therefore performance and edge retention). Keep in mind that the inverse is also true. The effect your sharpening angle will have on edge retention is largely dictated by the amount of steel around and behind the apex supporting it. 3. The third is something Rob's much better at gauging than I; Whether or not the angle you're pursuing is reasonable for the grind of the blade. Rob showed several examples in this video of a sharpener being too aggressive and creating plunge grind problems as well as massive bevels. I've fallen in this trap before, too. I couldn't really tell you how to know where you've crossed the line here (hopefully Rob can). This where your experimentation can really come in. Assuming you don't care about the cosmetics of big edge bevels (I certainly don't, provided they're symmetrical), I guess the chief indicator would be what angle you can consistently achieve at the plunge grind. It seems logical that you should find what you can pull off initially on the most difficult part of the blade and then sharpen the rest to follow suit. I sure wish that idea had occurred to me a year and a half ago, when I first got my Edge Pro. Again, I'm no expert. I'm just someone who's made a lot of mistakes and learned from them. Feel to use or discard any or all of this advice.
Aaron Longsworth the Edgepro is absolutely the wrong tool for scandi sharpening. The angle of most scandi grinds steepens radically through the belly to the tip. First of all, the knives are designed that way. Second, if you tried to make the angle consistent hilt to tip, you would be removing a HUGE amount of material from the belly and tip. It would take a very long time and radically change the shape at the tip. Scandi grinds should be sharpened freehand.
Aaron Longsworth Not that you asked for my opinion, but I was actually dumb enough to attempt sharpening a Mora Eldris on my EP somewhat recently. I figured with the relieved compound grind at the belly and the short length it might be doable and my initial tests sharpie-ing the edges and swiping seemed to confirm. It quickly ended up turning into a disaster. I was able to salvage it by using my EP stones flat like very short whetstones, but I wasn't able to make an effective fix until I ponied up for a legitimate proper compound waterstone. It still looks pretty junky because I accidentally went past the bevel a few times, but it's certainly sharp now. I would very strongly echo Rob's advice.
@@TheApostleP can you buy those stone and mount them to the edge pro apex. reason for the quesfion is that i want to order a buck 110 in s30v buy im afraid i wont be able to get it sharp. whats your opinion on buck 40hc paup bose het treated
Clayton Bigsby I buy the unmounted stones all the time, Clayton. They’ll work just fine on S30V. They just don’t cut as fast as the diamond matrix stones. Keep in mind though, when using brand new Edgepro alumina (stock) stones, you have to do a light leveling with the silicon carbide and glass to break the glaze at the surface and get down to good abrasive. Buck’s 420HC is as good as it gets, but nowhere near the performance of S30V.
@@TheApostleP thank you apostle. you are a value member in the knife community. would you come up with a gec collab. i love a single blade trapper . i ended up orfering buck 420hc
That edgepro is not so easy to use. I bought one only to discover exactly what you said about not being able fix the person doing the work. Everybody wants mirror polished, perfect edges without paying the price!
