Ellen really is the one Queen army. She has all the things you want for a starter character. Zhu Yuan would either need to be comfier to play or that backloaded nuke is worth the stacking gameplay (aka like Jinhsi, not like Jing Yuan).
I think neither Ellen nor Zhu Yuan will become what Jingyuan’s current state cuz Jingyuan’s kit is internally flawed since the very start. Seeing how Ellen having breakneck speed combo and Zhu Yuan having great generally good kit. I doubt they will be left in the dust.
I'm not too worried about Zhu Yuan, they know what they're doing and I am sure a new unit will drop that helps unlock her kit because they want people to pull. I don't think everyone having Nicole is enough but I'm sure there not being any other Ether units is by design to make her more appealing. I would guess there will probably be a faction A-rank that does good daze. Or I'm just coping because I see Zhu Yuan and Officer Mewmew and it reminds me of Astral Chain and I want to pull her, lol.
Qingyi kit is already been leaked and she's an S rank electric stunner with the same faction as Zhu Yuan. She has insane daze multiplier which will be insanely good with Zhu Yuan
i think theres something very crucial to note regarding zhu yuans kit, in that zhuyuans additional ability does not need the same element to activate. you can confirm this by going into her skills when you can trial her in the story, her additional ability condition is same faction or *a support unit in the team* meaning that even lucy or soukaku actually enables her additional ability, she isnt actually locked to nicole at all, meaning her "no teammates" downside is pretty moot imo, because every self respecting team should always have a support unit except for some very rare exceptions.
@@rickyk8965 Damn so they made them both S-rank? That kinda sucks. Especially for F2P/Light spenders who are interested in Zhu Yuan (aka me). I have a ton saved for ZY. But an electric stun unit is a lot better for my account (I have Rina & Grace) and I dunno if I can pull both.
I think ellen is better. Cuz consistent dps and early meta. Since it might take some time for us to reach high end having ellen to carry us is definitely better. By the time we reach high level there might alrdy be better dps than both ellen and zhuyuan.
I think Ellen and Zhu Yuan are like Jingliu and DHIL. Both on average are equal, but Jingliu/Ellen have higher floor and DHIL/Zhu Yuan have higher damage ceiling
I've passed the early game hurdle (Inter-knot Lv. 40) without Ellen, now Zhu Yuan will be my target :) I might be able to make use of my Koleda with ZY for fast breaks, and then either Nicole or Lucy as support depending on what element the enemy is weak to and / or if I need grouping.
I need to think My main goal was actually the goat von Lycaon but I don't want to force myself to pull Ellen just for him since I kinda like Zhu Yuan more but if Lycaon synergies better with Ellen Only because of one thing that is the ice pen I might get Zhu Yuan and pair her up with Lycaon since she needs a good breaker
@@kyotheman69 i would have went for her but i got nekomata in my first 20 pulls on normal banner and she is fun to play so imma stick with her until Miyabi banner comes bcs she is so cool :)
Spent all the standard wishes I had (Didn't use currency of course) and got Soldier 11 and koleda, so I'm skipping Ellen since I already have a solid early game team in mono pyro. Really lucked out and now I have the privilege of saving my limited pulls.
I have 40 pulls saved up. Already have Ellen M0 and Lycaon M1 but no other carries. Currently I don't have a second team. Should I use them and attempt Ellen M1 or wait and pull for Zhu Yuan and make an Ether team Zhu Yuan + Nicole + Anby?
Element change aside, if she’s ice I think she won’t be here by 1.4 or 2.0 like ayaka. By then even if powercrept I already got enough value. I’ll pull again
I decided to skip Ellen just cause I don't feel her that comfortable to play for me. The games decided it wanted me to play the hares with the Nekomata and then her weapon the next pull and all the hares sigs weapons. The bikers the the funnest to play personally and can't wait for there boss to come out. And also I like foxes more the sharks 😊
I'm also playing Grace, and I like Zhu Yuan but after seeing her gameplay she kinda feels like Grace 2.0 (animations). It's the only thing thats making me doubt pulling her
If this game follows the trend common to gacha games pretty much all early characters will be powercrept in like 6-12 months. This means you are pulling them for short term power and this is where Ellen shines the most. She will carry me the next months and allow me to save for the actual powerhouses coming down the road. You know, like the Shogun/Acheron/Mei expy we all know is coming.
@@potatopcgamer739 Venti is not really powercrept tho, hoyo just removed him from the game with not creep at all. he is the most broken for Salad-type fights but they just deleted those type of rooms from abyss 12. And overall for genshin pure powercreep is not real because Klee got outdated right but Diluc right now is Stronger than her and yoimiya (2.0 char) being a Standart pyro dps. But yea Jing yuan got wrecked (but i guess he was since day1 due to his kit). And yea Xianling still the best and most broken Pyro damage dealer since 1.0 being 4*, so is there a real powercreep in genshin if 1.0 4* are still dominating the meta?
Was gambling the 50/50 to see if I get Ellen or Zhu Yuan since I didn't care which I got. Got 2 Ellens on my 7th 10 pull so I just decided to fully invest and get her weapon lol. Don't have Lycaon though, and like hell I'll reroll after that. Going to slum it with Anby.
Was gonna save for Miyabi but then who knows WHEN she's gonna come out, as an ICE type DPS I don't think she's coming anytime soon, at least 3 months I'd say. I had to pull for Ellen since I didn't have any 5 star DPS to carry me through the early game. Have to say, she is pretty broken. Pull for her was probably the best decision I've made this year.
i see zhu yuan not getting powercrept at all with this kit she have tho, even though i'd say she's harder to play, meaning you have to put more thought on her gameplay.
I think I'm gonna play the long game and skip both and just stack up pulls. Day 1 DPS are guaranteed to be power crept and yes, you only get one early game, but most of the complaints about early ZZZ is that it's too easy and you can just mash through most combat, so having an extremely hard hitting DPS for the easiest part of the game will make that worse for some people. It's a tricky thing since ZZZ was kind of riding on being hard as the selling point kind of like Wuthering Waves but you really face roll everything for a long time in the early game even with the free units.
I don't know. Tbh, I hate playing Ellen in the demo. It feels weird having to dash then do charge attack to get ff stacks. It is like a 3 seconds window standing still to get hit. And I always get hit in demo. It just feels bad. Zhu Yuan on the other hand is chef's kiss. Just dancing around the battlefield. Insane mobility go boom boom boom. But dps is lower. I guess when you have higher mobility, you have less dmg. Just like playing Black Mage in FFXIV, higher dps but you gotta stand still to do dps. Zhu Yuan is like an archer (Bard). Just pew pew pew, running all over the place. 100% uptime to run around. Jump for fun but lower dps. I have built Lycaon and Soukaku so yeah. 70 pulls in still no Gawr Gura. But piloting experience wise (shou gan), Zhu Yuan feels very smooth. I am only playing the game with 2 characters now. 😂 Lycaon and Soukaku because I don't want to waste resource building an unwanted main dps, attacker. Hard choice. Mixing ice and ether is weird too. Like how does element mixing works? Will ice freeze proc or ether corruption? 🤔
is it really less dps? when u ideally want stunned to take time away from dps to get the stun off asap. Zhu yuan fits more than playstyle with waiting for stun and then blasting the ass
FYI: supports aren’t as big of a deal in this game vs hsr, there also isn’t an off field dps like genshin. Stunners are the most important and then you would prioritize having elemental coverage on your dps over time is my current theory on this games late game meta as it grows
Once you learn to utilise switch cancels, every character becomes a semi "off field dps", in this game when you switch, the previous character will finish the entire move animation before leaving, meaning you can switch cancel at frame 1 to maximise dps. You can even do 3-4 switches in 1 second, e.g Anby charge attack > Rina EX skill > Grace EX Skill > Anby EX skill for quick burst damage, it can get super hectic when you do these cancels on top of perfect dodges/ assists. Rina especially is more off field dps than most because her bangboos have long field time.
@@GuyWithAnAmazingHat keep in mind some cancels better than others, also, the non dps will never do dps dmg. However cool you feel switch cancelling, I’ll give you a generous 20s dmg on support, still no dmg. Supports are not as relevant or as valuable in this game. It’s just based on baseline boosts, Bronya set the tone for harmony in hsr. Verina set the tone for wuwa. We know the general big meta of the game that supports is in fact not that strong, no matter how hard you sweat
@@michaelyang838 It's not just about damage, it's about cycling through damage, daze and anomaly constantly without wasting time on animation frames. Let's say an attack is 60 frames long, 1 sec, you should be switch canceling out as close to frame 1 as possible and not wait to all 60 frames has passed. In that 60 frames you could have switch canceled thrice back to the same character and executed 3 moves. Instead of wasting time watching the EX move of your DPS, you could have stacked a stun and a shock in there.
Power creep phobics: “I’m not going to pull for a 1.x DPS because it’ll get power crept.” A year later: “I’m not going to pull for a 2.x DPS because 3.x is around the corner.”
I do hope Hoyo follows Genshin and HSR formula on power creep cause those games have low power creep. Old characters are strong enough to clear newer content.
@@dreameisters Genshin, sure, but HSR? lol Sure Seele and Jingyuan are "good enough" to clear content, but you're lying if you think there's low powercreep because characters like Jingliu/DHIL (1.x DPS) and Acheron/FF (2.x DPS) are miles better than seele and JingYuan. Meanwhile Genshin early units such as Bennett+XL, Hutao, Diluc Plunge, Xiao, etc still are close in performance to new DPS.
I'd skip Ellen if you don't really like her. If you're pulling for meta and don't have Lycaon, by the time you get him there will probably be better teams than ice. If you're not pulling for meta, then get her if you like her.
yea, right now they are only good because they are the only limited but this game feels easier than star rail in the sense that its not difficult enough yet to need meta. I am holding out for the more future proof characters and then will go all in on the most broken characters when they come out. in CBT the Myabi was an ICe DPS and was broken in that so Ellen could get power crept quite early.
Who cares about Ellen - I mean pull if you like her but as the first dps of the game I have no reason to pull her for meta. I’m happy running Grace Anton Rina for now, and when a unit I like comes, or someone with a kit that won’t likely be powercreeped so quickly, I’ll use my guarantee. Losing the 50/50 for Grace was the best case scenario for me because I never liked Ellen to begin with. Being head and shoulders above everyone else at launch is like a consolation prize lol
@@adriancox2381 can use, but not efficient to run 2 dps characers. Best ice team is Ellen/Miyabi(DPS) + Lycaon (ice stun) + Soukaku (ice support and huge atk buff). Both Lycaon and Soukaku share faction buffs with both Ellen and Miyabi so it just depends on player who they use. But definitely not good to run two attack character.
@@littleswansplaygrownd6817 perhaps so, but you need 2 teams anyway. and although they do share the same supports, remember that right now we are literally in 1.0, who knows how long itll take miyabi to come out and how many units we'll get to form a second team with even if its in the same element. even right now though, you can match soukaku with miyabi on team 2. then just use whoever as the stunner for miyabi and keep lycaon with ellen for victoria housekeeping synergy and use whoever for the support.
i agree ellen is probably gonna be at least pretty dang good for early meta. Later on though, she might suffer from Jingliu syndrome, where a character with lower scaling but many self buffs falls off because new stronger supports eventually come out that provide similar buffs to those self buffs, thus diluting/reducing the value of them. Meanwhile, new dps might have higher scaling, and benefit more from external buffs from teammates. Caveat: just my two cents, this game isnt the exact same as hsr, and with gacha games eventually powercreep has to happen in some form
I played Zhu Yuan in the story with Lycaon and Soukaku, and they work really well! Zhu Yuan's core passive also only needs a support, and not someone from the same element or faction so the corruption + shatter combo is kinda OP. Not sure about the numbers compared to Ellen though.
I lost my 50-50 in 81 pity so I have no option lol and I got the worst character nekomata i would have taken literally any other 5star character and now I don't have the strength to continue lol
@@oneeyedplayer i feel bad for you bro actually her burst and skill damage multiplier is same as 4 star character and her attacks are to clunky and she is boring to use unlike others 5stars where they have higher damage and more fun playstyle and you can easily switch her with Billy who is more fun to play with a little less damage
@@oneeyedplayer yeah the game is easy you can clear with any character lol I am just saying she does low damage and not that fun to play I tried all the 5 star character and she is the most boring and low worth
the main competition for now is how long they're gonna shelf Miyabi for official release, if they keep her for like ver 2.0 like Ayaka in Genshin, I can see Ellen having a decent shelf life of over a year or so (assuming they don't release another T0 Ice DPS within the next 6-7 patches or so), if they release Miyabi pretty early (1.2 or hell even 1.1) then Ellen is gonna have a rough battle ahead, unless somehow Hoyo manage to release enough relevant character for us to create 2 ice teams (another Lycaon or Soukaku substitute) for Shinyu/Hollow Zero (which I HIGHLY doubt)
I don't get the people asking you to wait for Miyabi. ZZZ is the kind of game where you literally don't need supports. I'm going to be playing Ellen, Miyabi, and Soukaku for the ultimate Ice team once Miyabi drops.
I mean you don't even know how to team build. Why did you forego the insane multipliers of daze units? I could understand removing daze if you're using an anomaly team but Ellen is a dps which benefits a shit ton from daze.
@@bad3ip2k10 Not sure you know how the game works either. Daze is not a unique mechanic inherent to stun units. Almost every character has attacks that build daze and a defensive assist that deals massive daze. In my current Ellen, Rina, Soukaku team I end up stunning enemies just as much as when I’m running Anby. Not sure if you played CBT3 but stun characters didn’t exist before launch. For the longest time it wasn’t considered a “core mechanic”, but with feedback they decided to label characters with the current specializations to make it easier to understand what each is good at.
It's a tough decision imho. Style>everything, but Zhu Yuan's investment seems higher than Ellens Zhu Yuan was amazing to play in her short trial at IK30(?). Such a fun unit. But I think Zhu Yuan is a 5* character you want to have a Mindscape 1 for. It smoothes out her gameplay so much. 9 shotgun shells for each Chain attack is exactly what you need/want for the burst windows. Unlike Ellen, she actually needs time to build up these very important stacks for her. You'll easily apply Corruption with her through that though and since the upcoming stunner unit (that is in her faction) is going to be electro she will most likely have more options for non-mono teams. If you want to "open up" your teambuilding possibilities however, I think "stunner" characters are more important to get, especially if you don't have that ice-furry guy. The upcoming Electro stunner that is part of Zhu Yuans NEPS faction will be good for both the 1.0 DPS. (if the unit itself has any reasonable good kit) For Zhu Yuan, she will be of the same faction, so she'll natrally fit. For Ellen, she opens up Rina for her, so people that don't have Lycaon can
@@therion451 You can use Anby with both. The only one who benefits here in any meaningful way is Anby, with her weak core passive, not Zhu Yuan. Lycaeon is the upgrade to Anby. Just like how the ucpoming NEPS stunner is the upgrade to Anby. So you are basically arguing that Zhu Yuan "needs" Qinqyi too when she is out? Another 5* limited character...
@@Datbombboody Yeah, realized that too, it was, or rather still is, poorly worded on Prydwen. It says "if any support character has her element or is in her faction" there.
@@aignah- ud think that cuz u have positive reception about mihoyo, but their reputation outside of casuals perspective says otherwise, they are perfectly capable of doing it. From what ive read (source trust me bro) Miyabi from beta was an ice dps and her animations from live also show hints of ice animations
@@Mikasa-.- Well like I said they're not DUMP. According to leakers Jane Doe, Qingyi, and Seth are expected to be released in 1.1. This is likely accurate, as Mihoyo has already dripped marketing Seth
Ellen doesn't have much to expand, she has the perfect team right off the bat. Zhu Yuan has no supports, and I'm sure Mihoyo will release them as sellable as possible. Immediate results vs. future investment.
Zhu Yuan easy pass then glad i went for Ellen she self stain herself so team comps isn't to limited, you want push for full ice, but you don't have too
