During this portion of the game she never accepted Joel’s death yet and still feels guilty whenever she doesn’t think about him or getting revenge on Abby. There’s no room for her to feel genuine happiness. If you played the game this was exactly what she wrote in her journal actually. During the first day of Seattle, she mentioned that hunters tried to ambush them and they didn’t stand a chance. This made her grow a deep appreciation for Dina for coming along with her. The important part is that she mentioned afterwards they found wild horses and Dina offered them some fruit which made them follow them. Dina was smiling so much for like half a day she wasn’t thinking about Joel or the WLFs and she felt guilty about it.
@@yol_n 1 can be angry for many reasons. Anyways it proves nothing beyond the possility of him peeing on her hand. IF she was truly angry,ND would have us kill the kid in a minigame. Or perhaps she remembered that Abbs is still out there.
Yeah, when I get happy I can't just live in that moment. I always ask myself "Wait, why am I happy?" and I realize that in the wider scope of things I don't really have a reason to be.
Litterally, she has PTSD (i.e. intrusive thoughts,emotions, and memories) she clearly experiences this as she relaxs into the moment, as you can see the gradual shift as they come to the forefront of her mind. She shifts through the emotions and then attempts to ground her self in the moment by returning her focus on JJ. anyone seeing this as resentment towards the child should do some character research and look more depth into the study of body language and how PTSD effects the way the mind works. They did a great job portraying Ellie and her personality as a character.
This is literally how depression looks, when tears are about to burst out of nowhere. If you check the journal before she get locked in the barn, it says that she cornered and hit a boar in a gas station, and it's dying sound reminded Her Joel.
When someone has major trauma such as Ellie you can be doing absolutely anything and then start thinking about that trauma so Ellie is probably thinking about the people she killed or Joel being murdered in front of her
@@daviddeckard800 I think that's kind of like saying that killing the Fireflies at the end of Part 1 negated everything else as "for nothing." Ellie's whole problem was her dedication to making sure she was worth something, that everyone who died for her would be justified with her sacrifice in some way. Her conversation with Joel at the very end of the game calls her out; Joel is sorry about the way it happened, but at the end of the day, Ellie being alive is what's important. Even if it ruined the most important relationship in his life, Joel doesn't regret his decision because he would rather she be alive and hate him with potential for a future than loving him and dead. Her trying to justify her existence because of her survivor's guilt is what caused their relationship to deteriorate in the first place, and she further loses pieces of Joel and herself in setting down the path of revenge. Killing Abby wouldn't have made everything preceding it alright, and Ellie wouldn't magically start to heal. She had to address the root of her problems, which was seeing her existence as some burden and feeling like she had to justify her right to live by serving other people (especially when Joel absolutely would not want this for her). Abby is already defeated, she's weak and unwilling to fight, and Lev will not survive without someone to take care of him. When Ellie holds her head under the water, she has won, Abby is a moment from death, and it doesn't fix anything. Like every other time she's hunted and killed these people, it's absolutely awful. There's no righteousness. So, she pulls away, listens to that voice in her head that sounds like Joel about how trying to forgive and forget would be nice. Because, at the end of the day, it's not about Abby. Ellie has internalized Joel's worst trait of suppression and let the memories of her loved ones haunt her. The way Joel is drawn with his eyes scratched out in her journal, the way she can't talk about him even to Dina, and the fact she jumps right back into the fray when Tommy, Joel's brother, guilts her, shows this. It's not until the end of the game that she's able to draw him, serene and with clear eyes, plucking the strings of a guitar on his porch. Killing Abby was never about Abby, it was about repentance, about doing right by her father figure after she felt she failed him, and because she blamed herself for his death. At that point, they'd both been through so much, it was a massive relief to have them go their separate ways instead and move on.
Same thing happens to me, it’s not fun and thankfully the therapy helps a little bit, but it’s still extraordinarily hard to enjoy anything without focusing on what came before
@@dragonsrule20201one of the few times reading a long comment on yt has been worth it. You are 100% right about everything and you didn't overelaborate a single thing, straight to the point without unneeded speculations.
There's a reference to this in her journal. Before Seattle Day 1 Dina and her find some horses and Dina feeds them some berries they found and it's a cute happy moment and Ellie even acknowledges it, and smiles and says she loves Dina, and then she writes "I feel guilty about not thinking about Joel." The fucking details in this game dude are crazy.
@@JoeGoldberg1991 you unlock it as soon as you gain controll of ellie at the boat in SB if you look in the journal she wrote down what she did on her journey to find abby again and you should see a picture of baby JJ
@@JoeGoldberg1991 the previous commenter already said it, but I wanted to mention that another frequently missed journal entry is at the end of the game. It's a drawing of Joel playing a guitar, and for the first time, Ellie is able to draw his eyes. I think it's such a nice and subtle way of showing her finally entering acceptance
The guilt of survivors remorse and the ptsd has her constantly thinking about everything that’s happened she literally watched Joel get killed right in front of her. This is the one of the best game I’ve ever played in my life, and maybe the only series I’ve completed.
Fr, it's funny yet understandable that ppl forgot about the internalized conflict the characters have on themselves just as much on the out in the desolate 🌆 city battlefields. at first I was focused on the surface lvl of the storyline and probably a lil confused about the story at first too and the gameplay is what saved it with a 7./10 score to me but when looking back on that final scene with Abby seeing how she wasnt at her 100%, i knew it really stopped being worth it immediately even before leaving the farm house it wasnt anymore; but seeing the mental toll & seeing how just being in the middle of that rush still found the strength (from Joel & especially in herself) to just stop. playing it and reading back on info commentary on it. This game I can confidently say is 10/10! Damnnear 11 for such a subtle Ludo-narrative telling perspective & still able to incorporate 'us' the player, to still feel apart of this story. I'm glad🪷🤧 it got the respect it didn't get at first launching
THIS. I noticed if you have Ellie look at herself in the mirrors in Joel‘s house right after his death, she has a hard time looking herself in the eye, like I literally kept moving the camera and she kept averting her gaze it was actually insane
Ellie: Damn, this is a nice moment of fresh air outside w my baby boy Her brain 3 seconds later: Do you remember the time you killed like 100 people just to get milly rocked around the block by the person you actually wanted to kill?
You can clearly see the conflict with herself,there's a lot a pain and suffering inside there,it's not that she doesn't care,she's trying really hard,it breaks my heart to see this.
@@duchessravenwaves2834 it’s natural teenage emotional stuff. you’ve got to understand how real life and emotions work my guy, not everybody’s feelings are gonna stay the same about everything, but i guess this game was made for a mature audience and you clearly aren’t part of that audience. Joel lied to Ellie about something she found very important. and he lied to her when she was a teenager (which makes her emotional response even worse) And atleast Ellie was on the road to forgiving Joel before he died, as seen in that final cutscene.
@@jsauceda9340 still feel more sorry for Abby, Joel killed her father ... I’d want revenge too. Ellie was horrible to everyone couldn’t careless about her .. edit oh well no I do care for Ellie I loved her in 1st. The end fight was so hard because I wanted both to live which they did thank god. But I’m more team Abby. She lost a lot more then Ellie did. At the end Ellie seen Abby as Joel, because Abby was traveling and protecting a teenager
@@duchessravenwaves2834 I like Abby too, but Ellie's anger wasnt unreasonable. You have to understand that a pivotal part of her character, from the beginning of Part 1, is her survivor's guilt. Her mom died giving birth to her, she only found out she was immune because Riley died when they were supposed to stick together, and then Tess, then Henry and Sam, and all the while she's experiencing the horrors of a world she thinks she can fix by making a cure. She needs to feel like not only her pain is worth something, but that *she* is worth something by giving something back for all the people she's lost. Joel not only took this away from her, but he lied to her about it and got mad at her when she questioned him. Dont get me wrong; I think Joel made the right decision. Ellie's perspective is one of a traumatized kid, and a child shouldnt sacrifice herself for a shitty world, but it was still something so incredibly important to Ellie, so it fractured the trust they'd built. What makes it even more painful is that Joel's death only makes her survivor's guilt so much worse. She regrets the time she wasted being angry, and blames herself for his death. So, she does what she did in the first game, and seeks to go so far as to destroy herself to give something back-- in this case, get revenge. The final fight between Ellie and Abby is very impactful, because it's a turning point in this mentality. Her most important relationship, which is with Joel, was not based on owed debts. It was one of simple mutual love. Joel did not need her to serve any great purpose, for him or for the world, he just wanted her to be happy. And killing Abby did not make her happy. It wouldnt have made Joel happy. This entire schism was created between them because of her inability to see her own life as something with intrinsic value. I think it's such a cool, but devastating, exploration of her character.
ellie loves jj. jj is just as much of ellie’s kid as he is dina’s. but, due to ellie’s severe ptsd, she doesn’t get to feel happy quite often. as shown in the game, right after she had some happy moments with dina and jj, she had a flashback and it ended. she loves the both of them so much, she just never gets to show it.
She has ptsd and she even talks about being guilty for not thinking about Joel in her journal. The look we see is one of her feeling guilt and sadness and she turns to comfort JJ so he doesn’t think it’s because of him. I feel so sorry for her. 😢
I feel sry for the ppl who really didn't understand this game too. I found it absolutely amazing that Ellie could still find the strength not to fully go thru on dealing wit Abby. I can only imagine the rush to find yourself still able to stop in such an adrenaline rush. 😖🧡 Phenomenal game friggin game.🖤 Also are u aware of the "Ludo-narrative dissonance" ? If so have you seen where it could have been occurring in the game? Cuz the reasons I've seent aren't fruition with actual proper arguments
@@EvilMockingJay Nope. Marlene and Ellie barely had a relationship in the games lore. Riley was her first love, Joel was her father figure and his death hit her the hardest.
@@pathetic2399 the post didn't said "the most" it's saying "the first". Again, in the game Marlene, in the show Riley. Play the game again, read the collectibles and you will see.
When you’ve lived trauma to trauma most of your life, even when you are happy, you’re always waiting for that other shoe to drop. She’s also got a whopping case of survivor’s guilt.
now she knows what Joel felt for years adopting her as a daughter and that he had to live with everything he did and remembering Sarah and wondering if he should be happy
Jesse: "I don't think I understand. I mean, I get that I die, but there's nothing in the script after that, not even a corpse scene." Director: "What's there to misunderstand? You get shot, you fall off-screen, and out of the plot entirely. You basically only exist to explain JJ."
@@Solobuddy yes it is. Lmao Dina literally says "we've got a family." They are a family. Dina and Ellie are his mums. You know gay people have kids right?
No but bro that’s some top tier face animation. Best part is if you don’t look for that detail you’ll probably never see it. I can see what she’s thinking, unfortunately
Nah bruh she’s got PTSD. Her mind is conflicted afflicted with flashbacks and attacks man. She loved that boy but those feelings drove her crazy cause didn’t handle it right. It happens. I’m sure she’s redeem herself in the next game. Much love y’all. ❤️🎸
She's weighed down by her life, trauma, things she's seen and done. No one ever truly forgets these things. Even while in a moment of comfort and happiness the memories tend to come to the surface.
I feel so bad for that baby. They had a fortified town with resources for child care, but these women decide to raise him in a farmhouse in the middle of zombieland
Ellie loves and cares for JJ. Atleast that's what I believe. Ellie has so much PTSD that even in those moments when she's happy the memories and Joel come back. She can't quite get rid of them from her mind. Truly who would? Every second she does not feel the guilt it gets worse.
“ ahhhh what a wonderful day “ Two seconds later “ I wish Joel was here to see JJ grow I think he would have been a good grandpa if I hadn’t fucked everything up he would still be alive “
@@ulisesmontalvo9606 ellie holds a lot of guilt and self-blame, its very very common in PTSD survivors to feel guilt for things that they had no control over.
Everyone’s pointing out that Ellis is likely experiencing ptsd here which is very true, let’s not forget a couple minutes after this she has a flashback in the barn
Human: *Doesn't smile 24/7* This guy "Wow. That person must truly not care about anything" Swear there RU-vid Shorts have revealed some of the most dense people in the world
Survivor’s guilt will do some terrible things to an individual. She’s been through a lot, and feels that she doesn’t deserve to be happy because of it.
Incredible story she goes after Abby to kill her to actually end up saving her and letting her go free. Wonder what Tommy reaction would be at that news.
He better be in his feelings even more, cuz he started this whole thing in the end really. Instead of just staying to comfort each other some more and stay at Jackson, he couldn't be the mature person and let his emotional urgency, get to him. Ofc this game is showing the flaws of everyone. it's just some really sett thee the spark off and out
Crappy clickbait, but it does show the attention put into this game by the devs. This tiny detail, something very small that most players won’t even pay attention to … most games outside of a cinematic cutscene would have one general facial expression displayed, thinking players are behind the character and can’t see their face and can only hear the audio. They took the time to get the facial animation right and make sure it played on cue to convey a specific feeling the character is expressing. She goes from showing a small moment of happiness to being overridden with guilt. You’ll often see this facial animation be present after Joel’s untimely death compared to the more calm and content expressions she showed prior.
i mean she is technically the reason the baby daddy got killed, not saying she was wrong for wanting to avenge joel or that it’s her fault jesse tagged along but she probably does personally feel guilty.
Tied Dina into her Revenge plot causing the baby's father to die needlessly & having the boy grow up without a father, yeah she definitely should be the happiest person ik
That deep sigh of relief. Only to realize there's a bunch of people you killed that will never get to experience that feeling. They're last moments were fear and agonizing pain
She's literally 2 Minutes away from a mental breakdown. People who aren't use to people with mental Problems might not know that, but you can see it coming, if you pay attention.
I mean, her mental health was trash since Joel's death, and then it was going worse and worse with no break. Nobody told poor girl about first taking care of her sanity, by taking time to let her wounds heal. You cannot care for somebody else and make their wolrd a paradise, while yours is falling apart. I don't think she didn't loved/cared for JJ. But she was definetly not in right place in her life to take such a responsibility as raising a child. I think that Tommy, Dina and the rest of town could do a better job of supporting her and make her stay in Jackson. Let's compare it with Abby. Her father was killed when she was in her teen years. She was able to mourn him properly being surronded by her closest friends. Even after years she was still able to track Joel and kill him in act of revenge. But I think that revenge was more personal, than just being a revenge done in the name of Abby's dad. Abby was then able to simply move on, cuz she already had accepted her father's death. Because Ellie was fresh after loosing Joel and then going on killing spree mission, her mental health was just turning into a big mess that instead of more trauma and stress needed time and rest.
The child is a reminder of the past, the people they've lost and Dina sleeping with someone else, never mind her trauma, abandonment issues and being raised by violence
I really like how this game tackled the idea of actual trauma and ptsd. It’s one thing that always bothered me about the uncharted series. Drake gunning people down because he wants treasure, and almost dying over and over and just cracking jokes. At the end of the game it’s happy good times and no one mentions the absolute destruction they create for greed.
@@Jerry-jo6dn Yeah I mean literally everyone finds some way to cope with horrible things. You can’t read their minds tho. You don’t see every second of their lives. When asked, most people will just say they’re fine, especially men. You dont actually know how they really feel though. Not everyone suffers from ptsd like others do but nobody just forgets about those kinds of things and completely moves on without ever thinking about it again
