Emergency Disconnects [230.85, 2020 NEC] 

I have seen homes with just a meter can outside with the service disconnect is inside. Therefore, an emergency disconnect is required after the meter outside and it must be N-G bonded. Homes with standby generators (Generacs) have the automatic transfer switches. Apparently, the emergency disconnect must go after the ATS. If the ATS is already N-G bonded, should the emergency disconnect N-G be separate?

so.......on both panels, theres a neutral-ground bond?

I think the point that is being missed here is this: In some or many older installations (at least here in Texas), the service drop (or underground lateral) and metering are, of course, always located OUTSIDE on the side of the dwelling. HOWEVER, the "service disconnect" (i.e., "Main Breaker") is often located INSIDE the structure, at or inside the breaker panelboard. With this in mind... in an emergency situation, there is no way to access the disconnecting means, without entering the structure. With this code section (230.85), you are allowed to have an "Emergency Disconnect", located OUTSIDE the structure, and (most likely) immediately adjacent to the meter. Thus, in an emergency, first responders have access to turn off power without entering the building. This switch would/could also serve as the "Service Disconnect", provided the neutral and grounds are properly bonded. Furthermore, there ARE disconnect switches available, suitable for use as "Service Equipment", but that do NOT have overcurrent protection integral to the switch. GE makes a couple of disconnect-type transfer switches which are listed as suitable for "Service Equipment" use. Also, despite the comment by Mike at/after 2:27, in context of this code section, an "Emergency Disconnect/Service Disconnect" must indeed, "have a short-circuit current rating equal to or greater than the available fault current...", as was mentioned by the other party in the video, and as stated in the first paragraph of 230.85. Again, this short circuit current rating is clearly required, as stated in the first paragraph of the section, and then with included adherence to one of the three additional requirements (1, 2, or 3) of the section. While it seems silly to have a "Service disconnect disconnect", when viewed in the proper safety context, the use and intent of this code section is quite clear.

Around the 4:16 mark, it seems there is consensus that if the Emergency Disconnect is not the Service Disconnect, a 3-wire feed could be run to the main panel. And then you'd bond the neutrals at both locations (6:35). Is this right?

Where can I find the spec for the lettering size, font, and color for the EMERGENCY DISCONNECT label? 230.85 to 110.21B

They are complicating a very basic thing. Why not put one above the meter Nellie the meter one for service disconnect

So then it only being required to be an emergency disconnect we call it that by labor, and CONTINUE TO USE THE 3 CONDUCTOR AND MAIN PANEL WITH OVER CURRENT PROTECTION IE MAIN CB, AND we should not be required to rewire the main panel to a sub panel correct?? That’s total bull shit running 4 conductor and rewire the main service to a sub just to meet the requirements of an emergency disconnect. Please comment as to keeping the 3 conductor to your existing service with OC protection as existing not making a sub. Mike please say it on a video that 4 conductor is not required under these conditions.

Power company has a lots of accidents pull or put meter on 277/480. One for power company and one for you to service. One before meter power company will have their lock on it. You can’t cut it.

One of my local ahj is interpreting this code as the Emergency Disconnect must be secured to the outside of the structure. Even though the code states it just has to be outside. Causing the issue of the service disconnect located at the utility pole to no longer be acceptable as the emergency disconnect even though it meets all code requirements and no addendum to the code stating this has been made. My question is this allowable as an interpretation or are they enforcing above the code requirements? And does the 2023 code address this issue?

So from the outside emergency/service disconnect panel to the inside home panel, it shall be a 4 wire connection with a separate ground bar in the inside panel for all ground wires since now the inside panel is a sub-panel?

Love your channel. So much information that is valuable. Still confused though as to if that emergency disconnect makes the main panel (where the main disconnect) a secondary panel hence a separation of grounds and neutral is now required and also transfer of the grounding wire to the emergency disconnect. This in the scenario of a Meter-->Emergency disconnect -->Main disconnect (inside main panel) setup. Ohh my ..

Only disconnects I’ve seen before the meter socket is on 480v, but that’s commercial. Other than that we are required to have a disconnect outside accessible after the meter socket. This is for any emergency responders to shut power down to the entire home, during an emergency situation. I do believe there should be an additional emergency overload device that would go in place on the utility pole and be for utility service providers only, just under the drip loop that is rated for the load analysis for said home. This would trip and stop current that either feeds arial or underground to the home. We deal with floods that submerge the entire meter socket and still remain live the entire time. Imagine walking through flooded waters up to your chest and putting your hand directly on the metal enclosure of that submerged meter socket. Some would say…”well it should trip that transformers emergency flip switch”, but because of the resistance in the large body of water…amazingly, the water acts as a load and carries the current just the same as a very large lightbulb.

Previously I thought it was for the fire conditions happened, for firefighters to cut the power off from outside of the building🤣

Why don’t the utility companies make a meter socket with a disconnecting means above meter and below so if you need to work on the load side to change out conductors from meter to service disconnect

Hi, how to install it?

There are subtle issues here. Because of multiple ways disconnects in the past have been used and implemented especially say in the house that Mike was referring to. Bonding and grounding are non trivial, short circuit ratings have to be looked at it would be great to take several diagrams and loops to identify fault current path and what would be safe and in line with the code using what would be present on an existing installation or if there were internal service disconnects in the house. Managing the overcurrent protection between outside and inside and deciding whether to include what and where is a matter of selective coordination looking at various trip-current times whether you are mixing breakers with breakers or breakers with fuses or fuses with fuses delayed or non-delayed types. That’s a more detailed discussion but I think you can bring all those issues here by breaking it down. Sometimes it may be easier to simplify the installation and add less convoluted fault current path and use of appropriate external disconnects of course then costs becomes an issue.

Should there be an "EMERGENCY DISCONNECT" AFTER THE ATS on the outside of the dwelling? How does an ATS Serve as a Service disconnect when the generator has no means of disconnect in the ATS (Point of Service), and the Generator fires up when the utility power is turned off and is connected to the house automatically by the ATS? New Kohler 20KW Pad-mounted generator with kill switch on exterior of Generator cab, and matching 200A Service Rated ATS. Generator has built-in OCP but is next to the opposite side of the house, out of sight of the Service/ATS. Interior panel is Main Lug Only.

I think the reason an emergency disconnect needs overcurrent protection, is that most disconnect switches made by most manufacturers are not rated for anything above 10,000 AIC. Depending on the available fault current supplied by the utility, this could be a problem if overcurrent protection is not integral to the emergency disconnect.

This was a modern day Abbott and Costello. Who's on firist. Answer I don't know

Just did a Meter Disconnect 145 Foot from House to, A 200 Amp Disconnect on the House, to a Main Panel inside the House..

I've been studying to the point that I have dreams of electrical concepts. In my dream, I saw that a building that is connected to an earth ground at two different locations causes the same issue as a person who gets shocked by step potential. Same principle but larger scale. It reminded me of your video on visiting the power plant and seeing the huge wye transformer. God bless.

Remove this disconnect.......not needed

So an ats would count as an emergency disconnect if mounted outside, bonding the neutrals in the ats and as well as in the main service panel

My meter is on my pump house, near the house. Can I put the disconnect next to my meter on my pump house? All new construction single family home. It is “Readily Accessible”