Emotiva RMC-1 vs Marantz Cinema 50 Sound Quality 

Dale - thanks for the encouragement. I am trying to understand the differences between models and types. These videos are simply me sharing my own thought process to arrive at a better understanding of what makes a system good. As an engineer I try limit the number of variables and unknowns as much as possible in my test plan. That simplification makes it easier to determine which elements have a positive or negative impact on the result. Receivers today are very complex as they are handling many duties - particularly processing and amplification. As the Cinema 50 has pre outs along with the abilities to disconnect the amplifiers entirely, that simplifies the comparison. To assess the quality of a receiver’s amplifiers I can compare against my reference external amps with a speaker A/B switch to hear the differences without relying on long-term memory. I continue to think of techniques like those to fairly compare and pinpoint which elements influenced the sound the greater for good or bad. Happy share and learn from this group. Jon

Joseph - Thanks for sharing. I suspect the XMC-2 performs similar to the RMC-1 on the front stage. Glad to hear you had success with the 3.1 upgrade. So far, mine has been running very well under 3.1 also. - Jon

Can’t believe how many Sony TA-E9000ES users are still out there. Glad you wrote. I think I will expand my testing as a result to include comparison with that vintage model and try some REW measurements as well for a less subjective analysis. -Jon

I can't believe you guys are comparing ES - Sony (Elevated Standard) the best of the best of "yesteryear" with a mid-range AVR with more features than can be possibly expected at any price point. Yes...the Cinena50 can be best compared to the SR6015 with a new faceplate, processing, but no Marantz afficionado in his right mind would call the SR6015 a top performer. So if you want apples to apples compare the AV7706 or 8805 to your ES. Chances are, the Marantz will wipe the floor with it. If you absolutely want to compare apples to oranges, then go to the SR7015/SR8015. I wouldn't be surprised if even those two outperform the geriatric ES.

Well can today’s mid-range car outperform a high end car from 20+ years ago - in many cases yes. This was worthwhile to know how much the market has matured. What I am learning is the maturity has come in the form of features. -Jon

Thanks for the encouragement. I will continue to report on my findings with these units I will have in my system as a long-term assessment. -Jon

Thanks for your continued encouragement. -Jon

Nice to hear such comparisons are helpful.-Jon

J B. - Thanks for providing your upgrade story. Your upgrade path makes sense. Also like the continued use of older equipment in other rooms. -Jon

Same here, I moved my old Yamaha TSR7850 to living room for TV, and it is really awesome with 2.1 setup!

That seems to be a common opinion. Thanks for sharing. -Jon

I am curious to know the general opinion on what sonic advantages the XPA line holds over the BasX. Haven’t just spent 1.75K on an XPA-5 I’m wondering I should return it for an A3 and save the cash.

@Ryan W Totally depends on your speakers and listening levels. More watts equals better controls of your drivers. Many "Audiophiles" suggest twice the watts your speakers are rated for. I went XPA-3 for my easy to drive Klipsch RF-63 and RF-64 center and then two Basx-6 for the rest of my 9.2.6 system. My twin SVS-16s are self powered. If I just had bookselfs up front I think basx line would be fine. But with towers I'm happy with the XPA line. It gives me 275 watts per channel. I came from a Dennon 4600X. It sounded good but upgrading to 9.2.6 from 7.2.4 I needed a dedicated processor, so I went with a new Emotiva XMC-2. Made a significant jump to me. Hope it makes you feel better about getting the XPA-5.

@@jacobsteele7138 Thanks Jacob, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts! Being a renter with limited space and no in-ceiling options, I'm keeping it simple right now with a basic 5.1. I've heard that dedicated processors can make a big difference and will probably go that route once I can add more channels. I suppose even with less channels a dedicated processor makes a difference, but I should probably save up for a home first. Can only go so loud when sharing a wall with neighbors ;-)

Have both the A-5175 five channel, and A-300 stereo basx amps. Very good sound quality, and both been bullet proof. I imagine the XPA and DR series would be excellent, keen to try them at some stage.

Can’t wait to bring in more from Emotiva and others that compete at their level. It’s a continuous learning process - which does it better and why. Which new entries will rise to the top? Lots of fun. -Jon

Can I assume you were using the same Crown amplifiers with the Onkyo processor and speakers? If so, your testimony that the XMC-2 offered noticeable improvement is a clear comparison. Thanks for sharing. -Jon

@@ripewave yes all crowns were also on the onkyo

I think we are aligned on the Emotiva RMC series models. I feel the same. While the smaller family company is slower to develop enhancements and fixes, their support is better then others. Even without all the features of other models, they seem to have focused in areas that matter most to me. I find myself using my RMC-1 even while I have other products is for review. I return after reviewing the other newer more feature rich models to my Emotiva with no regrets. -Jon

That’s good to hear because I’m considering an emotiva professor based on reviews on the sound quality. I’m waiting for the plus models to see how those turn out. I thought they were already supposed to be released by now.

Gary - glad you have had the same positive experience as I with the RMC series. We have received a few reports that issues are still occurring. -Jon

@@ripewave perhaps given my inputs are quite limited, 3 HDMI, 1 optical, 1 RCA analog - all is working well. Switching can be slow, but I will give that up for accuracy/stability. Now onto trying the Dirac!

What I have heard, those with issues are not related to high input counts. As for slow switching - I am seeing slow switching with the Marantz Cinema 50 as well. Something I am going to take note off as I test more brands. Who’s the fastest? Are they all slow? -Jon

@@ripewave lol my wife says it’s teaching me patience waiting for the slow switching!

Good suggestion to use an older receiver with multi-channel inputs as a low-cost set of amplifiers for height channels.-Jon

hmm, what do you use for your external amplification?

I use Emotiva XPA amps. -Jon

Glad you are interested. I will doing more for them going forward.-Jon

Glad I am hitting the mark with these. Always more that can be done. No shortage of content ideas - but I like the ones from the audience. I have videos on every processor and AVR I know of posted - check those out. Each one has a DAC slide which I go over where DAC details are known. I may have to crack the case on the Cinema 50 as I can’t find a Marantz resource that discloses. Each of the XMC-1 16 channels are discrete including the three subwoofer channels. I have yet to be impressed by the bass on the Cinema 50 despite the independent control available for both of my subs. I manually calibrated my subs on a vintage processor using REW and the miniDSP with better results.-Jon

I believe that the MiniDSP is one of the best enhancements available. It brought new life to my 20 year-old processor by calibration of my two subwoofers. - Jon

The difference in sound between D and A/B can only be appreciated if your speakers are capable of doing so. Need high quality internal components and sensitive drivers. But yes, there is a difference to be had.

I’m using Arendal 1723 speakers

I believe that assign mode was enhanced with the Cinema 50 to permit individual disconnection of the internal amps without having to turn them all off. I need to compare the results - connected vs disconnected amp assigned mode.

I like your philosophical explanation.-Jon

What a great overview of your system, your history, other hobbies and approach. I think I share some of your opinions. I too have the Sony TA-E9000ES and it still can outperform new equipment. I was content with a 5.1 system up through last year when I made the leap to immersive 7.2.4 configuration - I am enjoying it. Given a choice between 7.1 and 7.1.4 , I select the immersive version every time. However, that is not to say that I won't listen to 7.1 or even 5.1 - I still enjoy as it is not that much of a step down. Nice amplifiers etc. you have. I bet it is very clean reproduction with power to spare. I still look for deals, will purchase used or on close out sales. This stuff adds up and I try to save where I can. Albeit, this channel makes it easier for me to acquire then before as I am getting some monthly royalties. I have a Yamaha P-150 keyboard and Roland Super JV-1080 sound module to play with. Your pro audio gear is more serious. I don't have a real-to-real - that would be nice. Keep it up! Jon

Brian - Hoping that Emotiva has overcome the issues of the past. The latest 3.1 firmware is working well for many. They will likely need a long run of successes to erode the negative history. My goal is to report what I experience to de-risk for this audience. -Jon

@@ripewave Yeah totally agree, I really appreciate these comparisons to reduce purchase risk. I was surprised the Marantz was noticeably less HiFi. Also agree on "long run of successes" is needed for Emotiva, glad to hear that 3.1 is proving that out.

Michael - you strike an important message. This is sometime I am also baffled by. There needs to be an audiophile grade for each speaker configuration 3.1, 5,1, 7.1 as well as the immersive counts 5.1.2, 7.1.4, 9.1.6 etc. However it seems the high end products only have the high channel count. Why? They also reserve the better amplifiers for the high channel count models as well. Again why? Surely there are enthusiasts with smaller rooms or those that don’t want to pay for more channels. I believe this is a gap. Over the past five years I have seen the premium 5.1 processors drop out of production. It is unfortunate. -Jon

@@ripewave Exactly my point, and part of what I got from your article. In my case not an older Sony, but a 1991 Yammy RXV-850 when a 5.1 still had impressive 2 channel audio Stats and real-life enjoyment. I shall follow-up in a couple weeks when I get the Cinema 50. Thanks for the heads up on the Emotiva Pre !!! Keep up the great work.

Just invest in a rotel dac/preamp with theater pass through mode for when you want to use your receiver, and when you want to do simple 2 channel music you'll change the source on your rotel to music and get to use its dac/preamp directly into your power amp. I do this with a Mcintosh C53 and MC462. Just requires a dac/preamp with theater passthrough. Basicall in passthrough mode it skips the dac/preamp component and allows your receiver to directly send signals to the power amp for the Left and Right speakers. My biggest complaint doing this is that you lose the room correction when using your dac/preamp unit directly to play your 2 channel source. So you almost need to get a men220 or something.

No you are not the only one. I bought the cinema 50..... Found it's depth was a bit lacking so then bought the emotiva basx A3 power amplifier to power the front stage speakers (LCR), leaving the front heights and surround L/R powered by the cinema 50. Wow what a difference to the sound. More clarity, depth, separation and bass. Cinema 50 now sounds exceptional when used in stereo set up for music or surround sound mode for movies!!

First - like your idea about 1.25x playback speed. I may try that myself. Certainly the AVR is a nice bundled solution for these systems that can be 5, 7, 9, 11 or more channels. There are many that can't justify more than $1k-$2k for home theater regardless of their income - other priorities interfere. If you are willing to budget $5k+ for a system (+ speakers) then you two approached. 1) Start with an AVR and add amplifiers. 2) Start with a low-cost processor and get nice amplifiers from the start (not to be replaced) I took path two. Then after 20 years, got the processor. - Jon

If the sound was just "warm" I would most likely enjoy it. I found the sound a bit dull, with the bass underwhelming. Transparency is good too. Then you can use EQ/tone controls to your liking, or leave it flat. - Jon

I like separates for the same reason. Your investment in amplifiers is preserved if you go separates. You don’t have to go all at once. If you have a receiver you can gradually add external amps and when they are all external consider replacing the receiver with a processor - just one approach. Coming soon i- I will be bringing in a new Sony to compare with my Emotiva and Marantz. -Jon

@@ripewave It totally makes sense to go the separates route. Like you said, the amp is independent of processing which makes it a better long-term investment. Your comparison between the processing of the Cinema 50 and Emotiva sold me on Emotiva. I do wonder how the Sony ES5000 would compare in the same scenario. That model would be a cheaper option (than the 7000) if you plan to run external amplification. Look forward to the comparison!

Saying that you save money by purchasing separates is not really true when you look at the cost of AVRs compared to processors.

Glad to hear it is going well for you. As your RMC-1L should sound exactly the same as my RMC-1, I am not surprised.-Jon

I like the fact that AudioControl provides balanced input vs the Arcam and JBL equivalent models which don’t. The DACs in the Maestro I believe to be better on paper. I can’t say if the execution results in a noticeable difference over the RMC-1. AudioControl is often more than double the cost of the RMC-1 so that may be a decision factor as well. -Jon

I find the Cinema 50 to be softer and less dynamic than my RMC-1. Depending on the content, that difference can be noticeable, slightly noticeable and not noticeable. I haven’t found the RMC-1 to be fatiguing yet. Albeit, I am not driving at reference levels either. I agree that the speakers are well integrated Jon

Thanks for your feedback. I watched your newest video about the sound. I agree with you 100 thousand percent. To me the Cinema 50 just sounds closed in. I wanted to like it, but I would be fooling myself. I am using it with a PS Audio BHK 250 and Carey Cinema 5. The pre-amp outputs are just closed in sounding and not open. Sound quality is veiled and leaves you scratching your head. My Denon 3400 sounds way more open. I am returning mine. I am hoping when the Denon 4800H comes out it's much better. We will see. If not I guess I will be going to an Anthem 70. Thank you for your videos. I heard exactly what you stated. This helped to confirm what I was hearing/struggling with.

I hope to do as many head-to-head comparisons as possible. That is the best way to know which is better. -Jon

From what I've read so far, the only difference between the 1 and 1L is that the former is expandable.

Justin - I am looking forward to that. It was previewed at their Texas show in July. Since then I haven't heard any updates - have you? - Jon

Thanks for sharing how you have and are evolving your system. I bet those PSAudio BHK amps sound nice. At some time I would like to try an Arcam or other Harman derivative. Let me know how the Arcam works out.-Jon

Thanks for the donation. Your appreciation for this content is appreciated. -Jon

The challenge with listening test is that the more channels you have operating simultaneously, the more difficult it is to tell the difference in sound quality. While there can be an noticeable difference between models, they are usually on a small scale. That is why a 2-channel comparison makes it easier to detect the differences. While some reviewers use superlatives to compare models, I find it hard to make strong distinctions. I will say the RMC-1 and Cinema 50 comparison revealed one of the larger differences in sound quality. -Jon

What I need to do for you is time the startup of the Emotiva vs. Marantz Cinema 50 from cold start and standby mode. I am finding that several brands take a long time to start 36 seconds for Arcam - even from standby. Emotiva RMC-1 was measured at 86 seconds from cold boot or 11 seconds from standby - which is the same as Monoprice HTP-1. Sony has a 1second standby start but a 90 second cold boot start. Nothing I believe beats the Integra, Pioneer and Onkyo models which are all under 5 seconds from cold boot and 2 seconds from standby. -Jon

@@ripewaveThanks a lot for the info. And yes I'm interested in cold start and stand-by boot times (low power mode) of the Marantz Cinema 50. When I'm not using the receiver I want it to have as little power consumption as possible but still has some decent boot time.

I agree measurement data would help balance the subjective listening tests. It may be the harder of the two to do correctly. Getting the test procedure right is key - otherwise you end up with a false report. I have run test before which proved meaningless- so I had to rethink the test and do over. Right now I have basic tools such as REW and calibrated microphones. To jump to the next level would be a high investment. My warning is to always balance test results with the actual listening experience. If you are get test results which prove some product are better but it doesn’t translate to what you enjoy more then something is wrong. I am working towards more testing going forward. -Jon

That sound very odd. I suspect that the Yamaha RXV683 doesn't have any settings beyond enable/disable - but it may be worth combing the setup menus. For example, my Sony UHD Blu-ray Player has several options for digital output. As does my WiiM devices - those let you set the sampling rate. If you can't find a setting, I hope it isn't a hardware issue. -Jon

@@ripewave Thanks a lot Jon

I placed the Marantz in Pure Direct mode. That is a stereo mode with the least amount of colorization. Subs were disabled with front speakers in full-range mode set as large. Jon

I did the tests with and without Audyssey engaged. What I haven’t tried is adjusting through the MultiEQ app which I have.-Jon

@@ripewave if you do try some adjustments, let us know how they then compare!

I feel your plan will produce great results. Keeping the front three powered by the same quality (and beat up front) of amps is how I designed my setup and very happy with the results. My heights are powers by my oldest and lowest powered amplifier and that shows up with room calibration data. Nice you will have all high performance channels. Please report back on your 100% in ceiling arrangement. Are you saying your front three are in ceiling as well? I suppose you will angle those towards the listener. -Jon

Thank you for your reply ! Yes, the 3 fronts will be directed to the listening area. Forgot to mention that I was thinking about including an equalizer for the 3 fronts... A Schiit brand and for about $ 200.00... My reasoning behind it that I've been told that with the Emotiva amplifiers the sound is "normal ", but the Focal speakers have the Beryllium tweeter, that makes the hights too strong... I want a warm sound without been tired of been listening... What do you think ? And yes, I'll keep you updated of the progress... Thanks Luis

An external equalizer can be convenient for on the fly adjustments. However, you should be able to compensate for the any speaker characteristics within the processor. -Jon

@Ripewave Audio Thank you John ! I really appreciate it !

I bet those Parasound amps drive your Polk Reserve speakers well. I would run an internal vs external test for the center speaker - thanks for the suggestion- Jon

@@ripewave The 2125 v2 is a great amp I highly recommend it.

Nice. With my prior comment I meant to be more clear. I will be testing the impact of an external amplifier for the center channel.

William - on paper they seem to be the same. But that feedback I receive from this audience and other reviewers is that there is an audible difference. Seems that I need to experience for myself. Thanks for the suggestion. -Jon

@@ripewave that's why I'd like you to do the same test between the two, what I've heard about Marantz signature sound is that it's more layed back and warm where Denon is more dynamic and in your face. That's why they say Marantz is more "musical".

I would like to time with the release of DIRAC support around March.-Jon

Thanks for that clever plan. That is what I doing currently. Having found the Emotiva RMC-1 better sounding then the Cinema 50, I am running a hybrid approach. Feeding the same HDMI signal to both the processes and receiver I can have them both decode the signal. That compensates for the lack multi-channel inputs. It is not ideal as you have to manage two separate volume levels, but it gets the levels. -Jon

@@ripewave Thanks for the info! Interesting, I'm wired differently using the pre-outs of the processor to the 7.1 input of my old marantz reciever. Then I have a separate volume 'trim' for the heights, being the volume knob on the old reciever. All other preamp is bypassed. If I understand your method, you are having the Marantz process as well as amplify certain channels? Did you have to address any timing issues, etc? I used my pre-outs to avoid this

Got it - that is good too. Having a trim control is nice. I have to get some theater time in to work with the timings. Traveling this week so early January.

These decisions are tough. I feel there isn't a perfect model out there. My goal is to present what each has so this audience can make informed decisions. -Jon

@@ripewave I did go ahead and order the Monolith HTP-1 since they are back in stock. One of the deciding factors was that I heard an interview from months ago on the Youthman channel where the owner was saying it did support DTSX Pro and it only needed a UI update to let the user see when it is decoding DTSX Pro. We will see. I really hate giving up that headphones jack but otherwise I think it is my best option right now. I’m keeping open the possibility of sending back if the sound quality is not what I expect.

That is the big question. With a large group of brands now supporting Dirac, the room calibration software should no longer be the differentiating factor. It will come down to the quality of circuits. I have already concluded by running in direct modes without calibration that Emotiva has a better design than the Marantz Cinema 50. I would be surprised that running each through the same Dirac calibration process will change the outcome - both should be better, but the order shouldn't change. However, I will run that test when Dirac is released around March/April for Marantz. The performance and quality of the Cinema 40 and AV10 wouldn't be known until available (albeit, I think a few outlets are selling - I will need to investigate). I would love to test the AV10 first hand. Jon

Hey Jon would be interesting to see a video now that Marantz release Dirac to Cinema 40 to compare the audio with emotiva mc1

This morning the update for my Marantz Cinema 50 was not available but by the end of the day it was. I turned off auto update intentionally so I could record the process. The update of the firmware is now complete and now I can move forward with the DIRAC license purchase. At the same time I am recalibrating the Emotiva RMC-1 to account for my new amps - the same external amps will be used for the Marantz calibration. Stay tuned…

Yes they have. -Jon

I think getting a center speaker will be your best upgrade. Your towers and subwoofer will fill in the rest. I would give that a try for a year or so before thinking about something more. At that time, an AV Receiver upgrade may be the next good move if you are not a technician. Those who are good with manual room calibration tools are able to squeeze out more performance with a lower-end receiver. For others, it is easier to have a model which sounds better right out of the box. -Jon

@@ripewave Alright, thanks for your answer man! Much appreciated!

Hard for me to know how the Cinema 50 sounds compared to the IOTAVX without direct listening tests. The Cinema 50 does more regarding streaming service support, calibration (both Audyssey and soon Dirac). While you are stepping down on channel count, it seems you may be fine with the 7.4.4 limit of the Marantz. How are you powering your KLH speakers today with the IOTA VX? With the Marantz you are paying for amplifiers which may not be used. However, it would provide a nice starter kit as you expand in speaker count (e.g. Klipsch from other room) - you won't need to purchase amplifiers at the same time. -Jon

@@ripewave thanks for the reply John! Currently the SA-3 and PA-3 are setup as mono blocks, so left and right KLHs get their own amplifier, i think that renders to about 100W per channel at 8 ohms and 180W at 4ohms. I must say I don’t have a huge “volume” need, I don’t play music or movies too loud, I am more concern about the sound quality(center imaging, soundstage, clarity, bass output) although, as I mentioned I do have a separate sub(SB-3000). I might have a chance to test the cinema 50 and compare them, I guess that would be the best way to make a decision!

I agree that direct listening test are the best way to know. I am with you and often listen at modest levels. I could here the difference between the Cinema 50 and the RMC-1 at low volumes. -Jon

Have you made any decisions? I am catching up on responses so sorry for the late reply -Jon

@@ripewave I ended up getting the Marantz AV10. I don't have it hooked up yet but hope to before I have to leave town again this Sunday.

Thanks for the suggestion. I have dynamic EQ enabled but not dynamic volume. I will give dynamic volume a try. I will also try more movie content. I am judging mostly from music. Note that as I mentioned in the video, tue Marantz didn’t sound bad, just that the Emotiva sounded that much better.-Jon

@@ripewave I find dynamic volume sounds best for movies. It lifts the lower details a little when not listening at reference level. For music I usually disable dynamic volume and dynamic EQ because I like the curve of my speakers in my room. Usually use pure direct as well.

Perfect - love getting this type of guidance. I will take those to the listening room.

@@ripewave It seems dynamic volume takes a moment to adjust so I would recommend enabling it, start the movie, then adjust the volume level to preferred level. Switching it on and off on the fly to compare with and without doesn’t work very well due the overall volume changes, etc.

Very good guidance - I will follow. As described on the setup screen I didn’t feel that it was a feature I would be interested in. However, I can’t ignore positive feedback from you regarding its usefulness. -Jon

While the RMC-1 can support up to 3 independent subwoofers, you are correct that with full surrounds, front wides and three rows for height channels, you are back down to 1 subwoofer output. Emotiva really needs to release the output modules they had planned. I suspect, they will only release for the upcoming RMC-1 Plus which replaces 80% of the internal boards - targeted for Summer 2023. My guess is the current RMC-1 is too constrained on the processing side to add the number of channels originally planned. Current owners will be able to swap out for $800 (if you paid the original $5000 price), or $1,400 (if you purchased more recently). Not sure if I am missing something regarding RMC-1's balanced outputs. I believe I am doing just fine with an XLR to RCA cable to my vintage amplifier with no apparent issue using $11.99 x 2 cables from Amazon - . www.amazon.com/belipro-XLR-RCA/dp/B09NCJ4JQN?th=1. You are not the first to be concerned about "no RCA" on the RMC-1, so I wonder if I have something to learn here. I was more concerned about he lack of balanced inputs and DSD support on the Anthem for my own needs. Otherwise, I feel that the AVM 70 8K is a great value. I hope to add it for comparison. Jon

Frank - I tried mostly in pure direct mode for the Cinema 50 and Direct mode for the RMC-1. I also tried stereo mode on each. I never mis-matched modes when comparing. With each like-like mode comparison I preferred the Emotiva sound. -Jon

That is very unfortunate. I hope I don’t encounter the same. So far I have been spared. I would also rerun if presented with those issues. Currently I am have more trouble with the Marantz Cinema 50 - has a 60hz hum when I plug in the cable box - even with volume at full mute. Also the power cable was touchy. It power cycles with the slightest touch. I swapped out with a different power cord and that issue what away. -Jon

This why I went with mainstream Marantz Cinema 40. A totally proven AVR series. I had purchased a Anthem MRX1140 8k thinking I had made a wise choice veering off the beaten path. I really, really, really wanted to love the Anthem and its Dirac but damn it was soooooo buggy with almost everything, I had to return it. Meanwhile getting my brand new 40 up and running flawlessly took maybe an hour or three to get running perfectly.

Dirac sells their basic version for $259, full range version for $350, bass.control for $650. So to deliver Dirac with an 11 channel receiver the price would likely go from $1,999 to $2,499 - same price as Cinema 50 without Dirac - still interested? -Jon

@@ripewave not sure to be honest. Apparently the emotiva firmware update pace is non existent - and there is a big mystery of how much $$$ a 2.1 HDMI upgrade would cost in future for it.

Yes - my recommendation is to purchase based on features available now - not future promised. Emotiva has been getting better. However, I would hold off if HDMI 2.1 is your goal. While many brands state that the best path for gaming frame rates is direct to the TV and eARC for audio back to the AV Processor/Receiver, I prefer going through the audio for two reasons- 1) more inputs. Most TVs are limited to 4 inputs, the RMC-1 has 8. 2) OSD - if you send video direct to the TV you won’t see the OSD from your processor/receiver Jon

@@ripewave agreed - I'm not a power user I don't need tons of inputs. I want kick ass sound quality, decent futureprooding (so I guess as many supported features as I can get), and reliability... If it is not reliable, I want the company to make it such via firmware. I've got 7.1 now. Would like to top out at.. 7.2.4 I think? or 7.2.2 maybe

I believe that given enough space and funds, 7.2.4 is a very good place to land. It is where you get to enjoy immersive audio as intended. While additional channels can improve that experience, it is less noticeable in normal large rooms. If you have an exceptionally large room , than it helps to fill in.

Would you consider using external amps to power the Magnat 1109s? That way you could match the needs of your speakers better then choose the AV Processor based on its feature set independent of the amplifiers. It could be an AV Receiver using pre-outs as well. -Jon

@@ripewave well I have looked into a separate 4 Channel amp with a good alternative for all that marantz offers for the processor/preamp. But its getting so expensive (netherlands). I can buy the cinema 40 is for ~2150 euro. Sr8015 for 2600. However something like the emotiva xpa4 cost 2250 alone. Then a better processor or same like marantz does add up🤣. The silver cinema 40 is a beauty, emotiva an ugly Black box imho. And 1 device would be better for me then 2 or more. However with a avr in that price range, I would not buy something New for the upcoming years.

I do like silver and I am will you - cost is a concern. The Cinema 40 is a good balance of performance, cost and features. -Jon

@@ripewave Thank you Jon, I did order the C40 a couple of days ago, I hope it will be up to the task 😀

A balanced connection uses positive, negative and ground wires to cancel out noise introduced between connections. One wire carries the signal normal phase while the other is reversed, when combined on the other end the noise is filtered out, leaving only the original source analog single. -Jon

Justin - You make a valid point. In my case I was comparing both units with the digital processing turned on as well as their best foot forward "Direct" modes. I suspect I can do better with a high-quality pre-amp or integrated amp. However, with just these two in play, the Emotiva was the clear winner. -Jon

Emotiva has been very busy developing and releasing new products and that continues into 2023z I will see what I can do to acquire some samples for review. Jon

Glad these comparisons are helpful. -Jon

@Ripewave Audio ...Yes. Definitely. These outline all the necessary data and features in a very easy to understand and allows for quick decision making. .. Thank you.

Glad the presentation format has the right level of detail and clarity -Jon

Me too - I have reach out to Emotiva to see if they could send me a sample.

David - I will time a cold start vs the Marantz. However, I normally just put the RMC-1 into standby. When I hit the on button the processor is ready before all the amplifiers are. Do you always perform a full power down with the switch on the back? Or is using “standby” mode acceptable?-Jon

@@ripewave I still have an old KRP-500M whose HDMI CEC (and DHCP, and probably other items :>) isn't everything it ought to be, so I've got the entire system on an auto-switched power supply (TV off turns the receiver off and vice-versa). Used to be an Onkyo down there, and its CEC -also- didn't work particularly well -- it rocked a 60W "standby", which, umm, I didn't enjoy paying for :> [I need to replace the plasma with something more efficient as well :sigh: ] Sadly I find that as I get older, I have less, not more, patience for this sort of thing. At any rate, it's a tradeoff. Not a sonic one, which is what this video is about, but one to consider. It's surprising that the Cinema50 is that noticeably lacking. Makes me curious about the 40.

Okay - so standby power is out if you want to enable video on standby. I understand if video on standby is not used it drops from 30W to 1W.

I am also curious about the Cinema 40 - I understand that one is scheduled for Q3 2023 so we continue to wait. -Jon

That could be influencing the end result. Ultimately, it is the end result our ears perceive. The Marantz only outputs unbalanced RCA and the Emotiva only outputs balanced XLR - so normalizing to a common output type is not possible. I am level matching with a SPL meter, to avoid one being louder then the other. I have same cables on each. I was running some REW measurements today and noticed that the Marantz has lower output on the low end. Overriding Audyssey' s Front setting of "Large" speakers to revert back to my original "small" designation helps as that re-enables subwoofer signals. But it is still not enough to overcome the clarity and openness of the Emotiva results - or even match the bass performance. I will now play with the app to see if I can tune that output of the Cinema 50 a bit more. Back to the balanced outputs - if that design element results in better sound, it results in better sound. While I set sound modes etc. as equal as I can, everything in the signal path contributes to the experience - either helps or hurts, the power supply, the DACs, etc.. Let me know if I can do more to have a better comparison test. I would rather improve the Marantz output then degrade Emotiva's capabilities to match or better. Jon

I haven’t hear anything announced to fill the AVR6800h slot. Seem the public is asking.-Jon

Anthem is in that tier with Emotiva that delivers a sound quality over that of Marantz, Denon and Yamaha.

I don’t have a recent Denon. I suspect they are similar to the equivalent Marantz models. My understanding is they will sound a little different. I haven’t heard the comment of how Marantz achieves their sound profile. Regardless I feel they could do better given their size and experience.-Jon

@@ripewave you mean marantz 59 still better than Denon 3800 sound wise?

I mean marantz cinema 50

Hard for me to judge without hearing Denon firsthand. Certainly they position Marantz as better.

@@ripewave . . . and that is my point. This engineer with his own professional testing equipment says it is a load of crock! Denon is actually “properly accurate” and it is Marantz that is WORSE! . . . and why I think you should connect with him given what you are talking about. Again connect with StopTheFomo.

I think speaker selection starts with your budget and your room’s physical layout. I just happen to stay with Polk due to a long history with using the brand. I have been building the system over decades and even between generations they are timbre matched enough to bland well.

I would the try out a Pioneer and Yamaha some day and compare.-Jon

​@@ripewave Pioneer was bought out by someone...not sure if that will affect the quality of their gear.

Same company that owns Klipsch. In fact they have added profiles in the Pioneer/Onkyo/Integra receivers for each of the Klipsch speaker models. Sharp is under contract to build their receivers.-Jon

@@ripewave Sharp manufactures receivers for Pioneer, Onkyo, and Integra? I had no idea... I really liked the DACs in my old Pioneer Elite receivers. I wouldn't be surprised if what they're using now doesn't sound quite as good.

It is possible that the new models are different given all the changes. -Jon

I bought the Marantz to be able to provide in depth feedback to this channel as I felt it was a model many are interested in. It has served that purpose well. I plan to continue my analysis of that model plus others to come. -Jon

Was it ANTHONY GRIMANI? I have followed his advice as he presented on Audioholics. He has worked for Lucusfilms THX -Jon

@@ripewave No although I know who you mean. Send a note to stopthefomo. I had the fellows blog on my list (older gent) but he went in a different direction so I deleted it. He seems to know a lot about Denon/marantz through his testing and he would likely be a good guy for you to talk to being of similar interests. The reason why I ask is because I too am considering the cinema 50 vs Denon 3800. My Marantz 5012 is great but sounds “soft” somehow and wondering if a Denon might be better for me now and is $1000 less? I have a 7.1 setup but want the latest enhancements particularly imax enhanced. Overhead Atmos won’t work because of intruding furnace mechanical so I will have to use Dolby virtualization and call it a day. Did a zoom call with SVS consultant a few weeks ago and he confirmed my dedicated professional installation (done 15 years ago) was done well but the mechanical intrusion won’t work for overhead speakers. I could use two at the front but not sure that accomplishes much overall considering the extra cost.

It is unfortunate that your mechanical system prohibits ceiling mount. I suspect that the ceiling is too low where you want to place to hang below the ceiling. Some are mounting standard speakers on brackets or poles to overcome lack of in ceiling clearance. I only have that problem in the center of my room preventing a center row or voice of God channel. As for mounting front heights I would say that is a better option then the reflective type of Atmos speaker sonically. However, cost to wire through walls is something to balance out in your decision process. Jon

@@ripewave Yes, in the right hand corner of the room (on a diagonal) there are two one-foot step downs from the 8 ft. ceiling to accommodate the mechanical; then a one step-UP on the second row riser so the ceiling height is only about 5 1/2 ft. in that corner. According to SVS, using its dedicated atmos speaker “even sideways” requires at least two-feet above the seating position for it to provide a height effect. As such, the height speaker ends-up at exactly the same height as the back surround speaker. So while o.k. on the left hand-side as the ceiling is full height, the double drop-down in the right-hand corner makes the whole thing - compromised. Drat!

Thanks for your input..I think Emotiva has good amps...but i would be leary on their processors down the road for which you have stated along with quality issues

Thanks for sharing your experience. I am sorry you had such bad experience with your RMC-1. On this channel I encourage an open discussion. I realize that there will be times when viewers have knowledge that compliments what I provide even if opinions and details diverge from what I post. With a discussion we can often arrive at a better understanding. I agree that it is very important to have a good level of support when purchasing AV Processors and Receivers due to their complexity and high cost. Obviously, I can receive Emotiva's support in the United States, so I don't have that risk. I purchased both the Emotiva RMC-1 and Marantz Cinema 50 at the same time knowing many of their differences. The Marantz has support for WiFI, Auro 3D, and web. For this video was to focus on the sonic difference from my own perspective. I do realize that any positive comment I make about a product can help promote that product indirectly. The inverse is also true - negative reports can have a negative impact on sales. I value sound quality very high, so while the Marantz supports Auro 3D, it value is diminished if I am not fully satisfied with the sound quality. I have been following Emotiva since the early pre-release details were communicated. I have witnessed the several instances where promised features were either delayed by years or not yet delivered. Delayed but delivered -Dirac -Input Expansion Modules - Balanced and Phono Inputs -eARC Delayed coming with RMC-1 Plus series (paid unit exchange ~1,400 or ~700 if you paid full original price) -HDMI 2.1 / 8K Support -DTS:x Pro -IMAX Enhanced -Upgraded Dolby -Wi-FI/Bluetooth -Streaming Capabilities -Tablet Control Delayed availability unknown -Output Expansion Modules So you also had issues with the JBL SDP-55, which was priced about $1,600 more than the Emotiva RMC-1 (Its replacement the SDP-58 is $1,900 more). Glad to here that after moving upstream to the Storm Audio 24 and spending at least $12,000 more, you now have a unit you are happy with. What I gather is that spending more in each case produced better and better results. Thanks again for sharing. Jon

It is to show what you get if you spend a lot more. Not always is the more expensive model the best sounding or the more feature rich. For example, this Marantz has Auro-3D, wireless, a web and mobile app, and HEOS to name a few items not found in the more expensive Emotiva. For those seeking those kind of feature it is comforting that they are better to spend less. But if it is sound quality you are seeking, the Emotiva still has an advantage. I also have videos where I compare similarly priced models. I find both types of comparisons are useful, but not for everyone. -Jon

@@ripewave the Emotiva was released in november 2019. The Marantz september 2022. I get your point, but it's still an odd comparison. Both have different focus, one is way older, one is way more expensive. So it would be more logical to compare less different type of units.

I have an audience the is debating about which path to take - separates or receivers - spend more or less. Others which are already focused on a price range and type, I have more direct comparisons - two different audiences. -Jon

@@ripewave its not an attack on your expertise nor this review. I just find it (very) odd given my points. Keep it going 👍🏾

No problem - it is good that you can share your perspective- don’t hold back. I will either modify my own with the new knowledge or explain my position - often both are valid. -Jon

100% correct. Out of the box automated setup audyessy versus dirac..... dirac wins most of the time. Someone who knows what they are doing using calibrated audyessy mic and the MultEQ-X software will easily get a massive improvement over the out of box experience and can match dirac. Dirac doesn't have AutoEQ which adjusts the sound based on volume. Our ears are less sensitive to bass the lower the volume. AutoEQ Boosts the bass for low volume on all audyessy xt32 systems. Dirac requires a separate config for each volume level you want to play at.

That is good feedback. How did you at that conclusion? I can say firsthand that that Emotiva XPA-1 amps have no issue driving my 4 ohm ineffient Polk lsi15s. I believe your key word was “best” - not that they couldn’t. I would say they actually do a great job with my setup. However, if the Outlaw amps can do better, I am all for it. As you say Outlaw ratings are conservative- which could be true as they are specified lower than Emotiva. -Jon

@@ripewave Oh, that's a coincidence. You have Polk LSi15s and I have LSi9s. Yeah, if you look at Emotiva's amp specs, they only rate THD within a limited bandwidth and only for one or two channels driven. Outlaw, by contrast, lists THD at all channels driven and for the full 20-20kHz. If I remember correctly, Emotiva amps with a 4ohm load give you 1% distortion (which is starting to become audible), whereas Outlaw only gives you 0.03% THD. It's a pretty big difference. When I say Outlaw lists their specs conservatively, what I mean is the unit probably performs better than the numbers listed. Very few manufacturers do that. Most of them are quite the opposite, listing specs that are taken under extremely ideal conditions - meaning you're not likely to achieve those numbers yourself at home. The only other manufacturers I can think of off the top of my head that are conservative with their specs are (or used to be) Bang & Olufsen and Nakamichi. Yeah, my Yamaha MX-A5000 amplifier went into protection mode about a year ago and I've been looking around for a replacement. To repair it costs almost half as much as what I paid for it new. I'd rather just get a new amp. Ironically, the Outlaw amp has much better specs than my Yamaha, and is much less expensive. I wish Yamaha wasn't getting out of the separates market for home theater gear, but that appears to be the case. How long have you been using BaseX amps to drive your Polks?

Thanks again for your detailed explanation of these amplifiers. I have been driving the Lsi15s with the XPAs for 5 years now. Jon

@@ripewave Yeah, I have the bookshelf version of your towers. The thing that's cool about that is I use a third LSi9 for my center channel, so I have exactly the same speaker for all my fronts. Anyway, it's good to hear from someone that's actually used Emotiva to drive 4ohm speakers, especially ones so close to my own. If it sounds good to your ears, that's all that matters. It makes me curious how well a BasX amp would drive a 4ohm load. I'm guessing you could hear the difference between your XPA amp and a BasX amp at high volumes.

I am curious about the difference between the BasX and XPA range as well. My XPAs are full differential, so I am also curious about how the non-differential XPAs compare. -Jon

Perhaps a comparison between the new and prior Marantz models at the same tier would have suited you better. I would like to see that as well. My goal was to compare the best new and available Marantz model against its opposite but to have the test conducted fair under like conditions. Many enthusiasts are torn between buying the all-in-one, checks all the format boxes and is rock solid Marantz or buying an Emotiva that doesn’t support all the formats, has been known to be buggy but is sold on the sound quality. The scale could tip either way for such buyers and the price point is similar if you don’t factor in the external amplifier cost that Emotiva requires. The entry XMC-2 matches the front stage performance of the flagship for $2,400 - a $100 less than the Marantz Cinema 50. If you already have some amps, the move to separates becomes obtainable if you are willing to forego some features. I can see where you would also want to compare older Marantz models. That is just a different comparison. I am just a curious about how the Emotiva would compare against a Trinnov flagship - why not? I find it healthy to reach across the tier boundaries so there is a better understanding of how they really perform and compare. The marketing often sounds believable, but do not always warrant the higher prices. My position is that all comparisons are good if the test are conducted consistently. Also good for me to hear your perspective. I will have future comparisons that involve more similar products as well as these intentionally different types of solution paired together. -Jon

@@ripewave ok, now it makes a bit more sense, but then why not look at the Marantz AV7706 ? It is around the same price point as the Emotiva, it has less channels of processing than the Emotiva, but Marantz being Marantz, I'd expect it to out-perform the Emotiva. You were looking at price only, but it's a well proven fact that in a direct comparison between an AVR or AVP of similar price, the AVP will win. Just because the Cinema40 is not yet available, doesn't make the Cinema 50 the current top model. So then test the SR7015/SR8015 and see how the XMC-2 fares. Oh and just because something has similar specs on paper, doesn't make it the same. There are a lot of other components in the signal chain that will influence sound quality. So until you actually test the baby Emotiva against the Cinema40, you're not doing a well enough job in reaching your comparison goals, IMHO.

I would have bought the Cinema 40 or AV10 if they were available. Here is some insight - I have been curious about the Emotiva RMC-1 since 2014. Marantz is certainly the mainstream. I simply want to compare my own selection against mainstream in this case. I appreciate your suggestions. As this channel grows I can purchase more models for comparison. But i want to compare. Not just rely on my gut. Would love to keep bringing in new models which displace my current reference. Perhaps the Cinema 40 or AV10. -Jon

You are not alone in stating the challenge of comparing these two products. My aim in purchasing these two different approaches for the central unit was two serve as two different baselines - one for processors and the other as representative of a common all-in-one checks all the feature boxes AVR. While I expected the results, why not compare these if I own both while I’m at it. Moving on… Sorry that the AV10 underperformed your expectations. While I have yet to hear for myself I have been suspicious that it would underwhelm- especially at $7,000. Many gushing reviews out there which I am not ready to believe but can’t offer counterpoints without firsthand knowledge. Marantz has great marketing for certain. My Cinema 50 is going in for warranty service already. First - a power cord issue that causes a reboot if you slightly wiggle it - replacing the cord solved but shouldn’t happen. The issue it is going in for is a 60hz hum even with the power disconnected. Whenever I connect the cable TV box via HDMI to the Cinema 50 this happens. Same Cable box and HDMI cable on the RMC-1 - no problem. Very odd.-Jon

I agree with you that the Cinema 50 has a well-balanced sound across the room, is fully featured and is a good value at $2,500. In the video I noted that the Marantz didn’t sound bad, but was not as good as the RMC-1. I will point out that I listened to the Cinema 50 for two weeks prior to ever hearing the RMC-1. I found the sound quality to be good, but lacking in bass and liveliness overall. At the time my main comparison product was a 20+ year old Sony processor it and the RMC-1 are replacing running though the same amplifiers and speakers. I paid $900 for the Sony in 2001. My feeling is that the Cinema 50 could have come closer to the vintage performance.-Jon

Please explain how I am not so I can enhance the test. There are several things I did to come close - using same - same room, same speakers, same external amplifiers, same settings for each test case, same source device, same content, -Jon

If I focus on your point that Marantz and Denon are more reliable then other brand, I can agree and feel that is very good guidance. Better, but not perfect. They did have a disaster of a launch for their initial HDMI 2.1 models. That was a rush to market without proper tested and control of release. The second generation of HDMI 2.1 products from Denon and Marantz meet my expectations for that feature set and are reliable for video. So they to can release beta product, but they are much more responsive to provide a workaround and eventual new model or board to make things right. The others can stall for years or not at all. My Cinema 50 has a hum issue when used with my Comcast cable box. I need to find time to send it back for Marantz to address. However, I agree for those who what the least amount of hassle those are the brands. Why others are considered is for sound quality many are willing to put up with some issues for the sonic experience. I have been happy with my Emotiva for that reason plus it has other features I care about such as a balance XLR input for my phone pre-amp on the other side of the room and more channels supporting front wides. I have the Marantz to address features Emotiva is missing like Auro-3D and HDMI 2.1 support. I have yet to find the perfect product but keep searching. -Jon

Yes - many are. It is very feature rich, support all but one format (DTS:x pro) and as I stated in the video it sounds good and the sound positioning within a 7.2.4 layout is well balanced. -Jon

Asking his 7 years old was relevant because that little boy preference was purely based on his impression from his sense of hearing. Isn't what you say in other words at the end of your own post? Why would young children not capable of having an opinion on good sound?!

Others share your perspective. My goal is to will bring in the AV10 when it is available to me. I will focus on the new models. While the AV10 and RMC-1 may be a fairer fight - the prices are all over the place. Cinema 50 = $2500, RMC-1 = $3,750 (I paid $3,000 on sale), AV8805A = $5,500 and the AV10 = $7,000. Price considered, the match with the Cinema 50 wasn’t that far off.-Jon