I have to give you major kudos because you have made me realize something really important about virtual advantage. The whole "10 cards in your deck" thing never occurred to me, and I've been in several duels where I went through my deck after losing to see how far away the card I needed was.
Pot of Desires lets you extend your plays in certain decks. For example, I play it at 3 in Pendulum Magicians, but to do so, I play 2 of each of the graphs. This is because I build my deck around it by adding a few cards, which aren't to terrible to draw, to be able to unbrick my hands, and well as extend my plays, for example making an extra Omega to rip a card out of my opponent's hand. I've done the mathematics with a Hyper-Geometric calculator, and it is also the best to run it at 3, as it is unlikely to draw 2, let alone 3. Rarely, proven by both playtesting and calculations, do you banish 3 of a card, and I only need 1 in my deck to combo off. To banish both my Timegraphs is unlikely, as the population is, if I draw it going first and activate it first, which is what I usually do, is 35, with a sample size of 10, with 2 "successes" in the population, and a minimum of 2 is required to succeed in the population, meaning the likeliness of banishing both the Timegraphs is 7.5630252 (7 dec.)% This is extremely beneficial to my deck, and is extremely unlikely to punish me. You can apply this concept to practically any deck. Let's use another example - Kozmo. The likelihood of banishing my Dark Destroyer is quite high, but it is still worth it. You open up more cards, to do more powerful plays and improve the consistency of my deck. Pot of Desires is a plus 1, not a neg 9.
On Pot of Desires, it’s a very useful card for many decks that run 3 or even 2 of everything. Just calculate the risk involved in using it before you add it to your deck.
The only situation Desires is even remotely a -9 is when your opponent is playing a deck designed around milling you out. If your opponent's goal is to deck you, then dropping 10 cards off the top of your deck without even using them hurts you more than helps you. Even then though it's not really a -9, it's a +1 that costs you about a third of your survival resource. Like paying 3000 life points in order to gain +1 when playing against burn.
How long later and people are still talking about Desires? It’s a +1 that not every deck/strategies can afford to utilise due to the high cost. That should be straight forward and has been said numerous times over since its introduction. With Ash Blossom seemingly dotting about everywhere, the discussion should really have moved onto whether the card is worth running nowadays due to the increased risk of it being negated and the turn player effectively banishing 10 of their own cards for no gain. Some people will maintain that it is because the potential to still plus. Others will argue it’s an ever greater risk to take, especially with good players wanting to hold on to Ash until the time is right.
So another way of putting it is that Pot of Desires is a +1 with the cost of consistency of your deck/strategy? The banish cost seems like the equivalent of taking 10 random cards out of your deck for 2 cards
Any opinions on PoD for mermails? I never pulled it or bought it, but have been considering. Do you lose too many of your resources or does it not really affect your consistency?
Question how can you tell which cards are a positive and negative or even neutral (assuming it makes you and your opponent lose a card) based on the text? because there are some cards that make it very confusing
Should I really never count the graveyard toward card advantage, or is it situational? It feels like if I find myself facing a lightsworn or infernity player and I don’t consider their graveyard to be card advantage, I would be doing myself a disservice
Dave, As someone whom doesn't play Yugioh but is interested, I have to ask: if 10 cards banished off the deck because Pot of Desires doesn't matter just as much as the bottom ten cards, why doesn't Yugioh lower the deck size limit to something like 20 if a 40 card deck has cards that never see play due to the game speed? Either that or something in addition to Link summoning mechanics needs to be introduced to slow down the game.
I used to be part of the neg 9 croud myself. I dismissed it as some crap card and couldn't figure out why it was popular in the meta. That was until I saw Yuginono's sketch video about it. That's when I saw it's potential. I ended up throwing the Pot of Desires into my cyber dragon deck which, for those who don't know, has a lot of triple cards and cards that act like cyber dragon. So losing 10 cards for drawing 2 wasn't as bad as I thought. I agree though it's not for every deck. I wouldn't pit it in something like an Exodia deck. But I disagree that just because your deck can't utilize PoD doesn't mean that it's a bad deck. That's just my opinion though.
If i have used pot of desires and ban a psychic tuner and non-tuner could i use psychic feel zone to return them to grave to special summon a monster by the spell's effect ? I have a psyframe deck and i only use pot of desires when i have feel zone on hand ... Is it right or wrong ?
As far as I can tell, since the cards are face down, they are not considered monsters, and cannot be returned to the graveyard unless an effect simply said return cards to your graveyard, without any other qualifiers. I have not found anything this generic yet, although I wouldn't be surprised if it existed.
Hey Dave. I am not pro at all. But i personally believe that pot of greed and upstart goblin are plus 1's and plus 2's and that is why they are limited/banned. I say this because i dont consider them regular cards. The way most people talk, they don't either. Both of these cards have no cost in your resources. Yes you have to activate a spell card but does that really matter when you look at your deck as a whole? They're just deck thinner. Like when you're playing a traditional card game and there is a joker in your hand and it's not part of the game. You toss it to the side to get a card that matters. What im saying is that that you have no real "card advantage" in your hand with these 2 cards. You have access to card advantage with them. I noticed a lot of people saying that they ran 3 upstarts to have a 37 card deck. I think what a card can do to your opponent should be taken into consideration with card advantage. If it only gives me draws i cant see it as neg 1 for activating. But i get the math here.
“What I'm saying is that you have no real card advantage with [Pot of Greed]“ Obviously, because having one additional card in your hand after using it doesn't get you any card advantage.
Davinator1212 | Yes, Upstart is a net zero (or a deck accelerant, if you will), no argument there. However, OP claimed that both Upstart and Pot didn't actually net you any advantage, which is just false (Pot is a free +1, which is why it's been on the ban list for years and why it's gonna stay there pretty much forever).
I'd say the only time you really neg yourself with desires is if you banish stuff then draw the searcher for it, say banishing all your field spells the drawing a terrafirming but again that's just a luck issue. Kindda crazy tho that the only way to make pot of greed fair is to make you have to banish a large portion of your deck
I believe that pot of desires must be play after you make your play example I play mermail and should be use after you summon neptabyss and do all the searches (dragoons megalo mizuchi moulinglacia) and not before unless you have a really bad hand in that case is a gamble
I use it in Dark Magicians and you want to get at least two Dark Magicians out of your deck before playing it. Granted, there has been times where I didn't have a choice but to use it and I only banished one Dark Magicians. It makes you think about using it first
It would be hard in a dark magician deck, if I remember right the only cards that have the name dark magician in the deck are the actual vanilla copies, so it wouldn't be like in Blue Eyes where you can have 10 copies all with the name of blue eyes.
The reason why I don’t play pot of desires is that I had a lot of bad luck with it. I like to play zombies and I was somehow able to lose: all 3 mezukies, my two plaugespreader zombies and my last zombie master. Yes I lost almost all of my play makers by activating one card (I know this since I got a search with pyramid turtle the next turn). Oh and I know that banishing doesn’t work with synchro zombies. I was new and ran one. Now my synchro zombies don’t use it anymore. Also Konami Release a link Zombie Monster. They need it more then quilfort or lightsworns
Question from someone who doesn't even play. Why do people say Pot of Greed is unfair? I get the whole explanation of card advantage, but is it really unfair when both players can have the same number of copies of PoG in their deck? Wouldn't it be unfair if your opponent can use it but you can't? The question is not about why PoG is banned or whatever, but more in terms of why the word "unfair" is used to describe it.
If I have the space for it I like to run my secret,spicy tech : magic drain. I feel like its underrated, it stops twin twisters,cosmic cyclone,raigeki and desires,off the top of my head. Sure they can pitch a spell to let their active one resolve. It is however quite slow,but played at the right time is devasting
I feel the same. I think even that if your opponent discards a card, that can still be a win because that's one less card that you have to deal with later on.
I have a question regarding timing. And I'm a casual so be gentle. Let's say you do play Pot of Desires(or any card that requires you to pay a cost before getting the benefit), can your opponent stop you at any time or do they HAVE to negate it before you start paying the cost? Like say you banish the 10 cards and are about to draw but your opponent activates(insert card that negates here), can they do that? If so, what happens? Do you just lose the 10 cards you banished and don't get the draw or can you return the 10 cards back to the top(because you didn't look at them) because he missed his cue for whatever reason(legit forgot or just wanted to try being a dick)?
The Champ The banishing is cost. Meaning if your opponent wants to negate it (lets just say Ash Blossom in this case), you would banish the ten, they would chain ash, then (assuming you have no way to negate that) you dont draw. Hopes this helps
The one thing I don't like about desires is that it's a hard once per turn, I've had times where I Desires into another Desires and that really freaking sucks.
It's very unlikely. Suppose you are running 3 desires. Let's also suppose you are going first and activate it straight of the bat. Next will be some mathematical Hyper-Geometric calculations. Population size is basically what is in your deck, which is 35. It doesn't matter what you banish, because it is random, so it is still technically 35 after banishing. The sample size is 2, because you are drawing 2 cards. The number of successes in your population is 2, considering you have not drawn multiple desires, which I will explain later. The number of successes needed to succeed is 1, because you only need to draw 1 to draw 1. So, the percentage of drawing one or more desires off your desires is about 11 percent. It is still worth it to run desires.
Well I think in all honesty it makes sense of what your saying it's a draw 2 and well I think if given the chance it's a good card in the right deck but otherwise it's just a card then needs to be played for the right reasons and in the right setting and right deck I my self don't know what those might be but they are out there
Davinator1212 great video I’m glad you explain all your point Thanks thoroughly so I can show my friends and I actually really do playing pot of desires And the way that I see it this is a card that either make or break a deck but I have question isn’t your deck resources in c.a.t. what would it be since I would like to believe A good amount of people would consider foolish burial a neg 1 and would you kindly do a video on virtual card advantage
Ah card advantage. Definitely an important tool for determining card viability, but also so prone to misleading results. I'm glad you touched on virtual card advantage though. One thing I think is worth mentioning is the effect card interactions have on advantage. Specifically how cards can 'share' costs in order to increase advantage gained. For example, in a bubble, the Dark World monsters are mostly neutral in card advantage (you had to discard them to use the effects, so -1, but then the effects themselves are usually +1s), whilst the cards that discard via effects are usually -1s (take DW Dealings, the effect is pretty obviously neutral in card advantage, so the only card advantage is the -1 from playing it). Combined it would seem like it's-1 to play them together, but because they share the discard, that -1 is only counted once, making it actually neutral.
Personally I hate the card because the cost. I just don't like it. That being said you'd have to be an idiot to not see how absurdly powerful a card that thins your deck by 12 and give you a +1 is.
Bisquits McKenzie I think saying that it 'thins your deck' by 12 cards is a bit misleading. Thinning your deck usually refers to searching/milling cards that aren't currently useful in order to increase the chances of drawing something that is. This means that the amount Desires 'thins' your deck by is entirely dependant on luck, and indeed, is likely to banish the cards you were thinning the deck to draw into in the first place.
Ok but activating it takes 12 cards out of your deck. How is it misleading to say it's thinning the deck just because it's not used in the conventional way?
I have a pure Herald of perfection deck that runs three of my desires because I built it with 60 cards. I don't recommend this because it makes Herald go from pro roughs to klunky rouge
Pot of Desires is actually a Neg 13. You banish 10+the 2 you draw+the card itself. So it's worse than we all thought. (If anyone takes this seriously, you have no sense of humor.)
Something I never understood is why is Upstart considered good then if its not considered a plus? Aren't you just giving your opponent 1000 life points to draw a card that you would've drawn already if you hadn't put upstart in your deck in the first place? I'm not trying to be cheeky I'm legitimately curious.
And this is why you only run it in 40-card-decks or TGLG decks. If you play a deck which you could easily play with less than 40 cards (e.g. Exodia or even Monarchs imo) but because you need atleast 40 cards in your deck you put Upstart in to play effectively with 39 cards (Upstart works as a gapfiller). So in that case Upstart lets you play with 39 cards instead of 40 and this gives you a higher chance to get your needed card. Decks where it is hard to cut cards off to land at 40 cards or even more don't run it because of what you said. Some Decks with TGLG run Upstart because they could also run 59 cards but If they draw TGLG they would mill 1 card less. Therefore they play Upstart to mill that extra card but don't decrease the draw-chance of a certain card but this is not very likely.
I think you're probably joking, but TGLG is inherently a -1. You play the card, and just mill a load. However, cards can become active in the grave (Wulf, Glow up Bulb, Dandylion). You still can't count it as card advantage when thinking about the card in a vacuum, but in the right deck it can become "virtually" a +10 or so
I mean yeah it gives you a plus one, but if it gets negated you threw 1/4 your deck away for no good reason. Allure is better because although it's a plus zero, you still get to look at 2 fresh cards. Desires isn't inherently good it's just POPULAR, and will be forgotten about within 6 months or so when the game gets even stupidly fasted.
Pot of greed was banned because any deck could play it...Also cheaters always put PoG in their opening hand. Also loop cards like magician of faith could get you back that PoG and spamming occurred. Konami created new “pots” w/ activation costs /etc to make it “fair” and they want to sell cards & everyones deck had 1 slot for PoG...banning opened up 1 slot for everyone in turn selling more cards...
ok so i don't like pot of desires...mainly cause it can, if your luck sucks as much as mine, banish the cards you're hoping to draw into...and dave...-9 pot is worst pot XP
It's a bad card but it has a use unlike the guttertrash like sound the retreat the cost is very hefty like it either get arrested or cut your left hand off
I don't like pot of desire, I don't like gambling like that. @-@ you are right it is good or bad depending on your deck. ^^ but I am a casual scrub and play for funies so pot of greed is my first pick. ^^ because I'm too poor to play competitively and most game stores aren't set up for wheelchair bound players. >
It's not amazing in every deck. For example, SPYRALs don't play it. However, if you can add a few more combo pieces (play more of the ones you play) you might be able to fit it in.
Pot of desires. Banish 10 cards, draw 2 cards. To you that's a -9. Lightsworns does somewhat the same thing, but rather banishing them you're putting those cards in the graveyard. It's basically the same thing. Unless you never heard of lightsworns before I don't see why it's difficult to understand
Know what i really hate about pot of desires? not the card itself, god forbid, i know full well how the card should be used. What i hate is how absolutely religious about the card some of its advocates for it are, like playing it in every deck they own for example.......
I don't know if give a like because he tries to explain card advantage, or give a dislike because he goes all "salty" (I don't know if I'm using the right term) and need the "future self here because I forgot to add this". I'll be honest, I'm not giving neither, but i wanted to know if those are valid points.
Eric T. Miyahira 'Being salty' is a term used for being generally annoyed or frustrated due to losing in a game. I feel like him being salty was in this case for dramatic effect.
jbdragonlance Oh, dragon lance. Pot of Desires lets you extend your plays in certain decks. For example, I play it at 3 in Pendulum Magicians, but to do so, I play 2 of each of the graphs. This is because I build my deck around it by adding a few cards, which aren't to terrible to draw, to be able to unbrick my hands, and well as extend my plays, for example making an extra Omega to rip a card out of my opponent's hand. I've done the mathematics with a Hyper-Geometric calculator, and it is also the best to run it at 3, as it is unlikely to draw 2, let alone 3. Rarely, proven by both playtesting and calculations, do you banish 3 of a card, and I only need 1 in my deck to combo off. To banish both my Timegraphs is unlikely, as the population is, if I draw it going first and activate it first, which is what I usually do, is 35, with a sample size of 10, with 2 "successes" in the population, and a minimum of 2 is required to succeed in the population, meaning the likeliness of banishing both the Timegraphs is 7.5630252 (7 dec.)% This is extremely beneficial to my deck, and is extremely unlikely to punish me. You can apply this concept to practically any deck. Let's use another example - Kozmo. The likelihood of banishing my Dark Destroyer is quite high, but it is still worth it. You open up more cards, to do more powerful plays and improve the consistency of my deck. Pot of Desires is a plus 1, not a neg 9. Scrub
Well the thing is. Until you know better you do think that, I did because I was just getting back into the game. It's the people who won't try it or even listen that get annoying.. Example, I have one buddy who thinks he knows best always even tho he rarely plays (he runs dark magician mind you lol. Sorry dm fans) and he won't run it or even try to run it because he believes it's a negative 9, combo deck so I guess I can see it but he won't take advice unless it's about a card he's never heard of. Another friend runs a blue eyes deck as do I, he usually kept up with me pretty well until I started running it thanks to a kid at my locals and tried it, now he preaches about running it to me lol. Point is we all focused to much on what we were losing in the banished pile, never considering that we likely never would have seen it, or hopefully needed it, when some people are open to other perspectives they come to conclusions they might not have... I never once considered that what ended up in the banished pile didn't matter until someone convinced me to try the card and let me discover on my own why it was good. But I had to explain that to the friend that runs it now because he doesn't look at combos and things of that nature like I do, he's to straight forward, and my other friend only looks at the few combos he likes to use and worries he'll lose pieces of it. Unless you're running a tier zero super consistent annoying ass deck, you should always have multiple options, I have combos to fall back on when I do ditch both chaos max with some bad luck and move to making my big xyz and using the amorphage lock or going into crystal wing for protection
PoD should, ideally be played as the last thing you do for the turn, because you can deck thin through searching, other forms of milling to grave, or generating other forms of card draw. Scrubs say PoD is a -9 because they see it and instantly play it as the first thing they do before searching any other cards they might need for the next few turns.
Honestly this while desires debate is fucking dumb. At the end of the day certain decks can play Desires very well, decks like DDDs who run multiple of the same combo pieces typically dont mind the banishing of a few pieces as youre running multiples anyways. But decks that run a bunch of one offs or key cards they WANT in the deck *cough* aeolo *cough*. Simply put, a bunch of multiples in your deck? Desires. Key one ofs or things you simply cannot AFFORD to banish, dont run desires
Hi, I am probably one of the first people to say Pot of Desires is a neg 9. Just to be up front I am mainly a collector and would never dream of becoming a competitive player. With that said, your caveat of the virtual neg 9 argument is the basis of my own. I look that the game moving too fast and the popularity of Pot of Desires is a direct result of that. I don't like the idea of a game that fast, so naturally I don't like Pot of Desires either. I want my resources available to me if the game goes long and banishing 10 of them face down for two more doesn't appeal to me. You say Desires is a plus 1. So is other draw cards like Destiny Draw, Allure of Darkness, and Pot of Avarice. Oh, wait. Pot of Avarice is banned in the TCG. I wonder why? Anyhow, you might think I'm a dumb scrub for my views but I just don't like a game that goes so fast you can justify jettisoning a fourth of you deck at a time on what you call card advantage.
