EXTENDED DISCUSSION: / review-escape-from-new... Mike and Jay discuss the John Carpenter "action" "classic" Escape from New York. Spoilers: Jay loves it and Mike kind of tolerates it.
If I really set myself to it, I’m sure I could find five or six Star Trek episodes that are evoked here. But that’s a lot of effort. I’m too tired. Maybe later.
2:04 In 2010s, Manhattan may be one of the most expensive chunks of real estate in the country, but in the late 1970s, when they were probably developing the idea for the movie, and NYC was bankrupt, the concept of Manhattan as a walled-off slum probably didn't seem too far off.
That was one of the lines in the novelisation (by Mike McQuay) ... When Snake first meets Maggie; "He wanted to wink at her, but he didn't have enough eyes ..."
Wanted to say something similar. The "typical score" provided is really only "typical" of the last 10 years or so. Generic, pounding, completely forgettable. The original score in that scene put me in mind of a Klaus Schulze album. Whether that's a perfect match for the intended atmosphere is debatable, but at least it doesn't get in the way.
This video was edited by Jay, who admitted to liking John Carpenter's score, so it might have been sarcasm. It could have been his passive aggressive way of proving Mike wrong by demonstrating how bad a "typical" score actually sounds.
Rewatching this, I was surprised Mike didn't like the score, a traditional score only reveals how slow the ACTION! is, which is what this movie sucks at. Instead, the "haunting" quality of the music reinforces the loneliness of the scene, how it's this lone man in this desolate place, and each struggle feals closer to a shiv scrap in a gutter, not a bullet ballet. Carpenter knew what the movie's strengths could be given his budget, and the "wallpaper" score still manages to reinforce the tone of the movie.
well said, agreed completely, this video is four years old but i only just finally watched this movie for my first time earlier tonight and your comment is from just three days ago so its happy coincidence that i felt the same way about the music in this film regarding how appropriate it is for the tone that it set,
I always felt the action is more grounded, it's not like he had a whole arsenal of weapons with him when he dropped into the city, he needed to sneak around and because of the vibe of the movie the risk and danger felt more real, Snake is a parody of action 80's heroes who occasionally switches to the straight man because of all the other more expressive and colorful character's,I still love this movie
@@mactastico1818 I genuinely believe this, you can see him try and fight what he does like about it. It's like when he always picks a different botw from the others.
The fact that the movie doesn't wink at you is what makes Escape from NY special and sets it apart from movies like Big Trouble in Little China. Anyone can create a ridiculous plot and play it for laughs, it's much more difficult to make a movie that's ridiculous but still takes itself seriously. And the thick atmosphere and earnest acting all validate it's serious tone.
That last line was a real gut punch :) "Everything you're describing is Escape from LA". That's so true. Everything Mike used as weaknesses in E.F.N.Y is strengths imo.
I don't give a fuck what anybody says, Ernest Borgnine was an American treasure. He was great in everything he did, including Escape From New York. There's a scene in The Poseidon Adventure where he says of Shelly Winters' character after she dies, "You had a lot of guts.". His face is soaking wet but you can still see his tears flow. So many other examples I can list. I respect his opinion, but Mike is dead wrong this whole video.
I had the same feeling finding out that Mike doesn't like my favourite John Carpenter movies that I did when I found out my girlfriend didn't like my parents. I mean, can we even date anymore?
Man I love you guys but I wish Jay had argued for this films behalf a bit more. Mike is hilarious but his ideas of what he wanted this movie to be would have sucked the life out of it and truly made it a BotW type film. To say the score is a detriment to the film... I couldn't disagree more. I actually listened to this soundtrack in full the other night along with some of Carpenter's other scores, and I gotta say this one is super strong.
I agree. Jay kinda laughed at the film. Kept patronisingly praising it for its qualities 'despite the low budget'. This movie is so effective that the budget is almost irrelevant. Its a great sci fi/action film, regardless of how much it cost.
Stank mate the movies were made at a different time period hence why they live is basically a documentary of the times when raganomics was rife what’s funny is how they live’s narrative is just as relevant today probably more so than back in the 80’s
@@Aeis_Kalt Yeah. I've grown to like Escape From L.A. more and more over the years. Its a cool movie. I wish we got movies like that now. 90 percent of modern movies just dont interest me. Seems like its getting harder and harder for directors now to come up with something original. Back in the 70's, 80's and 90's there were tons of original movies. Theyre literally killing franchises today. Alien franchise, Terminator franchise, Star Wars franchise. People on social media are literally hating on these new movies.
@Jonathan Jones You calm your self down you triggered snowflake millennial. Most films are shit today. Name me a few really good ones? Marvel movies? 😂😂😂 Haven't seen a single one of them. Why would i watch that garbage? Woke crap. Its nothing to do with age either. I liked both Sicario movies. Specially the second one. I see the woke lefty film critics were upset with that film though 😂 Typical of your politically correct woke generation.
Mike seems to have such a low tolerance for the measured, moody pacing of '70s/'80s cinema you'd think he was a millennial with no attention span. This is much more of a spaghetti Western than an action movie.
The fact that this guy says he loves Waterworld says it all. This guy doesn’t see a movie, he watches a movie. He’s probably the type of guy that watches Tarantino films and hates them because he doesn’t spot or get his subtle hints of foreshadowing in his films. What a hack!
at 17:35 he might as well just go "Can't we just make it like the most unprovocative, bland action movie that doesn't inspire any feelings? That'd be great!"
Then he goes to say how Marvel movies are samey which to be fair they kinda are because they share a lot in the movie structure department. I would take Mike's recommendations in the action department lightly as he has professed in more than one occasion that his favorite type of action movie is the dumb schlocky type.
@Jonathan Jones None of Mike's criticisms to this movie were stupid, though. He's completely right, asides from the atmosphere for some people, this film's tone is all over the place with terrible acting and action. It has some serious pacing issues, as well. I'm usually on the fence of agreeing with Jay more, but this is one of the times where I think he's completely wrong.
Escape From New York is a great character movie. It's not the best film in the world, at all, but Snake Plissken is a great anti-hero protagonist amidst a number of other great aesthetics including the film's score, the atmosphere, the cinematography, and the pacing. I get that Mike thinks it's boring, and I probably would have said the same 5, 10 years ago, but as a fan of minimalism the movie just hits all the right marks.
Oh boy, Mike is saying everything to push my buttons. Pretty much has the exact opposite thoughts compared to mine about the film. Which is fine but I get the feeling that he wants to be like every other action movie. Change the pace, mood, music and characters and it's not unique anymore. Also, I don't think it's told as straight and seriously as he suggests. It's inherently ridiculous and lots of wacky, crazy, hammy things happen. It's not like you need the characters to break the fourth wall and wink at the camera on top of all that. I mean, a cabby watching a musical about killing cops, only to go out and chuck molotovs at street toughs surrounding his car isn't goofy? Not to mention the fact that there even being a musical put on by psychos and cons isn't strange enough. I just saw John Carpenter play live last week and it was one of the best experiences of my life, it irks me that Mike would want to change the score out for something more "traditional". I don't want to say he's wrong, though. Since it's all just opinions in the end. He doesn't like it and doesn't think it fits, that's fine. I love it and do think it fits. I also think it adds a lot to the movie and how unique it is. If he wants a more traditional action movie he should go watch one, but leave this one as it is for the rest of us, I wouldn't change it for the world.
yeah, suddenly replace the electronica music in the final action sequence with an orchestral score. that wont ruin the style and mood of the film at all.
In the late 70's/early 80's the crime rate was rising to new heights and seemed to be continuing to rise, causing people to fear that it was just going to keep rising. Escape from New York's premise was inspired by the idea that crime could just keep rising and what the world would look like on the extreme end of the spectrum.
"the movie doesnt wink at you." yep, a name like snake plissken is totally normal. everybody has heard of him, but they all think, that he is dead. its a borderline parody IMO.
I just watched it for the first time and its a good blend of making fun of action movies but it also giving homage to them as well, i noticed the over the top scenes and dialogue the winks are there but they're subtle
I genuinely love this stuff and wouldn’t change a second of it. When they compare the music in an action scene with a more traditional “Hollywood” score, the latter completely destroys it. It’s not more exciting, just generic and tacky. The moody and ambient music gives the scene melancholic but not depressing darkness, that makes you feel like you’re watching characters tussle on a cold, endless night. I’m being hyperbolic, I know, but Escape from New York is a genuinely beautiful film, to me. It’s pure western, with all the amorality and fight-for-survival that that genre took on in the ‘60s and ‘70s, but with a gritty, urban, socially pessimistic sci-fi quality that stood in refreshing contrast to the space operas ushered in by Star Wars. To replace all that with caricature and bombast, to make something more like a generic schlocker, would have been a crime.
Probably my favorite movie, and my favorite character, EVER. Even Escape from L.A. cannot ruin Snake Plissken for me. My childhood hero, and pushing 50 now, my kids, and my grandkids know, if this movie is on, either leave the room, or sit down and be quiet, or Grandpa will get VERY angry. Edit: This movie was ground-breaking for special effects. The "Digital" New York city-scape from inside the glider, were lit-up miniature map-models, and it looked believable. Being able to pull off a look of high-tech like that, when the tech didn't actually exist yet, really grabbed me. I already knew Mike and I are worlds apart on what makes a good movie, so him hating it doesn't surprise me.
As their reviews go on I find I mostly disagree with Mike 99% of the time. Actually it has become pretty easy, if Mike likes it I'll wait for netflix or just not bother with it. Jay is spot one for me about 80% of the time.
"It doesn't wink at you." Man, winking at the camera is so overblown. Play it totally straight and you get bigger laughs when people suddenly realize the whole thing is a joke.
Sounds like Mike would love Escape from L.A, since it contains everything he wishes this movie had: It’s basically the same movie but with better budget, faster-paced action and it winks at the audience a lot more.
I just saw John Carpenter perform live at Primavera and he opened with the Escape From New York theme and it was incredible. Also, there's not much cooler than John Carpenter putting on sunglasses and all of the big screens simultaneously displaying CONSUME as he starts playing the They Live theme.
He did! This was the whole setlist: Escape From New York: Main Title Assault on Precinct 13: Main Title Vortex Mystery The Fog: Main Title Theme They Live: Coming To L.A. The Thing: Main Theme - Desolation (Ennio Morricone cover) Distant Dream Big Trouble in Little China: Pork Chop Express Wraith Night Halloween Theme - Main Title In the Mouth of Madness: In The Mouth Of Madness Prince of Darkness: Opening Titles Virtual Survivor Purgatory Christine: Christine attacks (Plymouth Fury)
Primavera is a music festival in Barcelona. He's touring right now and you can see if there are any shows near you here www.theofficialjohncarpenter.com/tour/
John Carpenter was really great at making movies that feature Kurt Russell doing a cowboy impression while wandering around not having any idea what's going on.
Honestly that was a terrible example, not even worthy of being a temp track. I'm not particularly keen on it all together but that track would be more fitting a 'preparing for battle' type scene where they're strapping up armour and weapons or riding into battle, not the fight itself. At least in the right context it'd sound a little less bland, but it's been old for at least 20 years now.
Most of the outdoor scenes were shot in St Louis, actually. A couple of years before some blocks were ravaged by a fire and they hadn’t cleaned it up or let the inhabitants return yet. Also, most of the action takes place at night which helps to make you believe you’re in NY.
I could not disagree with them more on the judgement ove Carpenters music - there is a reason why his OST albums sell! I DO however agree on Escape from LA, that movie was shitty in so many ways!
San Diego Comic-con summer of...'01, I think? Carpenter was there promoting "Ghosts of Mars". I had just picked up the "New Expanded Edition Original Film Soundtrack: John Carpenter's Escape from New York" from a dealer the night before and put it in front of him to have him autograph it. I screamed and covered it with my hands when he flipped it over (data-side up) and started bringing the paint pen down. He looked shocked and asked me what was wrong? I said, "That's the data-side... the side the laser reads, you need to sign the label side, that's just paint". He was genuinely shocked. He though the paint/label was the music. I love the mans music, but watch it if you ever put a CD, DVD, or Blu-Ray in front of him. He also questioned me about what it was. He didn't know it had JUST been released.
Escape from New York is a classic and one of my all time faves. I love it for all the reasons Jay does many of the reasons Mike does not. If it was made the way Mike wanted then it simply wouldn't be a John Carpenter film. Jay is right in that EFNY is more about atmosphere and style than action. And how can you not love classic Carpenter score? And Mike doesn't like Assault on Precinct 13 either? Jeez! If I was Jay I'd have to stop being his friend. (kidding).
To say all Carpenter's scores are timeless classics and brilliant is a bit ridiculous. Just like with virtually anything that anybody likes, there are some that are great, and some that are shit, and even fans of a certain band or artist will have varying opinions on which ones are which. Then there are people with entirely different tastes altogether who just don't like Carpenter, which Mike specifically said he liked, just not a select few of his movies. And I can see where he is coming from with the score of this film. I like a lot of Carpenter's scores, but this definitely is not one of them.
I love his synth scores but his later scores (and sometimes the films themselves) feel very syndicated TV. In the Mouth of Madness is a movie I watched recently for the first time and it was interesting and well acted but the lighting felt bland for most scenes and the plot had some problems. Escape from L.A. also had a really bad score in my opinion. I still want to watch more of his later films.
***** Agree completely. MGS is not stealth; ironically, The Phantom Pain is the closest it's ever come to it. Gameplay and control scheme have always been terrible and unintuitive- Snake Eater was more a battle of attrition with the controls than the fucking jungle. Real stealth is Thief, Deus Ex, Hitman (excluding Absolution). The new Hitman is a really great return to form for the genre after the fucking stealth em ups we've been inundated with as of late (here's looking at you AC)
Mike: " Add a little more satire, make the characters more goofy and over the top, wink at the audience and punch up the score." They did all this in Escape from L.A. and somehow made it worse. Escape from New York has something unique and special about it.
It's not boring. This was the big action movie before the next ones which were Road Warrior and First Blood. That was the time of escalation in movies. 3 years after Halloween Halloween II had to be bloodier and more gory due to other movies. Escape when it was released was the most action picture out there. Also when Snake Plisken sits in the chair he knows the President is gone and he has so many hours to find him in the entirety of Manhattan Island wit no subways and few running vehicles, so he is deciding to say fuck it and sit in the chair and wait for the explosives in his neck to explode. the only thing that changes his mind is weirdos start coming out of the sewers and even though at the time he doesn't know they are cannibals, he knows to go somewhere and hide and he doesn't want to be eaten before he blows up. So that scene of him picking up the chair and feeling his neck (where the explosives are) is him contemplating "Fuck it. Might as well just sit here until they explosives in my neck kill me". Star Wars seems like a slow movie but when it came out it was fast paced. When this came out it was a fast paced movie because they were not editing movies like music videos back then.
I saw this film for the first time a few months ago; fucking loved it. The scenes that Mike called boring, I actually found quite refreshing. We were taking our time; this wasn't a film, it was an experience, and now we're wallowing a bit because the tracker is completely useless, and the protagonist is seemingly going to explode without even getting the chance to _try_ the mission. In that moment, I feel like the film has _earned_ the "boring" quiet period.
So Mike wanted basically everything that makes this movie a masterpiece changed. John Carpenter is a master of atmosphere and the big part in that is music, I can always recognize a John Carpenter movie by the atmosphere and music. They Live, The Thing, Escape From New York all have really unique feel to them,.
redroversk Max Landis is more like that asshat in the Crystal Skull. Is he on Indies side? Is he with the Russian? Does it matter? Answers: who cares, who cares, no it doesn't
I've loved synth scores for a long time. I always thought the synth was great for a movie like this, where it creates an unsettling ambience. Same thing with the first Terminator movie: it creates a cold, mechanical ambience that complements a cold, mechanical being chasing relentlessly after you. (The first Terminator was supposed to be a thriller instead of an action movie). The score in Escape works in a similar fashion: they are in a cold, unfeeling rendition of a large city.
Such a fun film. My Dad showed me Escape from New York when I was a kid, and I've been a fan of it ever since! It has an awesome 80's soundtrack, too 😎
When Snake's landing in the city, the cue playing is Carpenter's arrangement of Claude Debussy's "Engulfed Cathedral." I think it's one of his best cues.
+Marc Lemieux "it was a dumb summer movie" provides zero insight. anyone with an opposing opinion could have guessed that's why you liked the movie with the dinosaurs. Lazy ass "You must have wanted an Oscar winner" comments in general are meaningless.
The main theme in this movie is incredible. I saw Escape for the first time when I was about 14. For over a decade I didn't see it again. At least once a week for those ten years I'd find myself humming the intro music. Love love love Carpenter's score.
I felt Assault on Precinct 13 started well but the writing / execution got pretty bad a little while after they entered the police station. Like flesh out the antagonists a bit more and they would have actually made the payoff / action scenes much more effective.
This low budget movie was better than most of the $100 million+ blockbusters made today. Captain America: Civil War, or Escape From New York. If I had to watch one again tonight I'd pick Escape From New York. (I won't even bother to see Superman vs. Batman, or whatever that new X-Men movie is)
Returning once again to this re:view to reinforce why I only completely trust Jay. Mike is so far off sometimes it's amazing. Every complaint in this one is an absurd.
Couldn't agree more Jay is the only one of them (maybe the big glasses guy) who's seen movies of all types from different times and places. Mike watches like 5 movies a year now and he couldn't be bothered in the slightest to see stuff outside of his wheelhouse.
Mike's character has always been fickle and inconsistent aside from his Star Trek arc, Rich Evans really needs to hone his writing of the character for the next season of RLM.
i disagree, mike wasn't wrong about anything he said, it's just he judges the movie a little too harsh and doesn't appreciate the strong aspects as much as a lot of other people, but he gives a pretty fair analysis.
Fun fact, Snake Plissken along with John Connor from Terminator 1 were the main inspirations behind Solid Snake in the Metal Gear Solid series. Hideo Kojima was a big fan of American films and carried that inspiration into his video games. In MGS2, Solid Snake even goes by the disguise Iroquoi Plissken for a time.
Rewatching this video years later, the score comparison is hilarious. The score in the movie IS SO PROFOUNDLY BETTER than the replacement score suggested.
I was 15 when this came out and I LOVED IT!!! I was considered action back then and the concept was so original! When I hear young people talk about hos boring it is, it just points out how much context matters. I still love this movie but I remember the feeling when we first saw it which colors my perception. On another note, I have watched 2 episodes of this show and the one guy with shorter hair hates everything! Seriously. I find him extremely annoying. He and I would not agree on anything! I'm not sure I can keep watching because it's too irritating. Sorry dude. I respect your opinion but still find it irritating to have people make fun of iconic movies from my youth. I wish you all well!
One of those movies where the concept is a lot better than the actual movie. Our minds remembered the movie as Snake being a survivalist badass in a post apocalyptic New York when in actuality it's mostly the character looking lost in tiny sets
gotta like how mike criticises modern movies for being generic and his "suggestions" for making this movie better are "having a generic action score, have more goofy characters and cut it faster". basically asking for it to become a marvel movie. and yet, whenever he reviews a marvel movie, he likes to go all high brow on it.
well, he wants generic for the era, what passes as generic has changed over the past 40 years. he wants Escape From New York to be more like conventional 80s action movies, because he likes those. he wishes modern marvel movies would break away from modern action movie conventions, because he doesn't like modern action movies.
We already have what Mike is describing at the end. It's called Robocop. Carpenter isn't Verhoeven, and I'm really glad we have both styles of 80's cheese. It'd get really bland if we'd only have the one.
Carpenter didn't need to be Verhoeven, but he could have used his horror filmmaking experience a bit more to build up tension in EFNY even without relying on shocking imagery (horror is a lot about mood anyways right).
I don't understand why Mike apparently wanted this to be a Marvel movie. Like, "I wish there was more action, less atmosphere, more generic music, and that it would wink at the audience more." What? Why??
I saw this for the first time maybe 5 years ago and loved it. It had very little action, but I loved the tone and look, the feel of the movie. I watched it alone really late at night and it was perfect for that. Music is great and unique too and the idea is fun.
I know it's been a few days, and I don't think I've ever seen you reply to comments on your videos, but I just wanted to say I really think this series is a fantastic idea. I find it hard to make it through Half in the Bag these days, not because you don't have wonderful commentary, but I just have general disinterest in new cinema these days. Seeing you guys take a step back from being handcuffed into reviewing whatever Hollywood pumps out these days, but not with the cynicism of Best of the Worse, and generally talking about more memorable movies is awesome. I honestly think this is the future of your channel.
Don't know if it's been said already, but since Jay likes the music at 17:00 it's worth mentioning that the tune there is Debussy's La Cathedral Engloutie synthed up all Tomito-esque. So it's not Carpenter's creation, but it's still a perfect choice for that scene and the way he transforms it with synth is great.
I liked it as a kid when it was just released and I still think its great. Cyber punk meets post apocalyptic, rediculous but Great Stuff !!! The Warriors meets Mad Max meets the Terminator meets Toxic Avenger.