EV Trucks: The Future of Haulage? | Fifth Gear 

WTF that is pointless. DAY CABs which typically only need 400 miles range is a massive Proportion of the industry. You are using the wrong tool for the job.

"40 tons full loaded"

A diesel will carry around 28-30t at 44t. Electric at 44t its 23t at most & thats a Volvo Trucks figure

It's just a few tons less of net to gross split. You are way more likely VOLUME limited for most frequent route cargo job. Seems like you have no clue what you are talking about.

The guy should have read his script better. It’s lighter that the uk and the Dutch max weights

Hills and mountains.

Overweight loads as well

Nope, electric volvo in nth America only has two gears. What they've done is the minimum they have to, to electrify an FH

Yeah, nice!

Yes that is where Electric Day Cab trucks are the best tool for the job. If we had a wide spread rail cargo network to go long distance between regions. Electric Day Cabs do the local deliveries from the train depots.

Its demonstratably false

"transport is the largest emitting sector of GHG emissions, producing 24% of the UK's total emissions in 2020 (406 MtCO2e )20 Oct 2022" www.gov.uk/government/statistics/transport-and-environment-statistics-2022/transport-and-environment-statistics-2022#:~:text=transport%20is%20the%20largest%20emitting,emissions%20in%202020%20(406%20MtCO2e%20)

How do they expect us to believe anything they say when the very first sentence contains a wild inaccuracy ?

@@djblc2201 the best way to deal with our infrastructure problems is not to replace cars and trucks with more cars and trucks it's to do most of the heavy lifting with better light and heavy rail infrastructure baked into cities

Global Warming has been debunked years ago. EVS cause major pollution with their toxic metals.

That’s a long distance truck, but re charging isn’t slow now. Your bladder is more likely to need emptying before to batteries need topping up.

@@H.K_R fast charging is killing the batteries.

@@Lonewolf_rider Stop with the lies. Due to the how big the battery capacity is on these trucks. It's not really possible to fast charge a truck battery to the point it causes additional degradation. The C Rating which means current flow rate compared to battery size is way to small. You would need a 1 Megawatt plus Charger to cause degredation issues. Your lies defies physics.

Hydrogen engines have been coming for 50 years and have yet to arrive. Even if they do they will cost six times as much to fuel as petrol or diesel trucks and fourteen times as much as electric trucks. They will also be astronomically expensive to buy. Right now you couldn't get a more pointless investment in terms of hgv fuels than hydrogen. And you must also remember one tiny little incy wincy fact about "hydrogen powered vehicles" - currently none of them are actually powered by hydrogen. All of them use hydrogen to generate ELECTRICITY that goes into a BATTERY that feeds power to an ELECTRIC MOTOR. They have very expensive onboard generators that need to be filled with hydrogen from very sparse hydrogen pumps in order to get electricity into a motor that would run fourteen times cheaper if you just charged it with electricity directly in the first place. I live in the UK. There are at least 60,000 charge points for electric vehicles and 400+ new ones appearing every month including hubs with 30+ points or more in one station. That doesn't include the domestic sockets in every home. There are EIGHT hydrogen stations. Four in England three of which are in London, one in Wales, three in Scotland of which only two work and none at all in Ireland. SEVEN working hydrogen pumps across four countries populated by a total of 72 million people. And that is the alternative to electricity that is everywhere including in all our homes. Petrol, diesel, hydrogen and so-called bio-fuels are not available in domestic dwellings. As for the USA - Ewan McGregor and Charley Boorman were able to ride prototype all electric Harley-Davidsons the length of South America with the help of domestic electricity in the remotest of places. Not a hope in hell of that being repeated with a hydrogen vehicle any time soon. By the way that was a 13,000 mile journey taking 100 days. Good luck doing that with a hydrogen vehicle. A Toyota Mirai managed to drive 845 miles on one tank of hydrogen in 2021. That was achieved doing local driver loops covering 420+ miles per day over two days using two drivers. The whole thing was done in California as it was the only state with hydrogen pumps. To this day Hawaii is the only state that has any hydrogen pumps outside of California. There are 58 stations in California and 113 in development. And that's about 95% of all the hydrogen stations in the USA - 171!! 🤣

@@trevorberridge6079 granted there are not many hydrogen stations because there aren’t many hydrogen powered vehicles. With Toyotas new hydrogen engine that is an internal combustion engine not something that powers an electric motor the future is looking more promising. The “electric revolution” simply cannot be sustained. Not enough minerals in the world to keep building the vehicles, batteries that cannot be recycled it’s just a mess. Plus no range and insanely long charging times and you have to wait hours in some cases to get a charging point.

Musk will start building the chargers required, there are some big enough already in existence in nth America

When loaded

40T gross safely max loaded but under regulated limits is a common way to operate semi trucks. Maybe learn some industry basic info first.

He said fully loaded. 40T Fully loaded.. Not empty. Fully loaded. Edit: After a bit of research, the truck weighs 27 tons empty. As someone who was a team leader in a warehouse for a large store, I can tell you that HGVs are rarely, almost never loaded to 44 ton weight which is the UK limit. Most of the consumer goods are quite light. Even when we fully load trailers. Pallet weights have a limit of 850kg each. Maximum you could fit is 26 pallets. You wouldn't be able to load 26x850kg pallets onto this truck. However, this weight could only be reached by loading palletized aggregate or by loading the truck 100% with liquids anyway... So, for transporting general consumer goods, it's a good step into the right direction. Also, there could be workarounds. You could load for example 14x heavy pallets and 12 light. Etc... You get the idea.

It entirely depends on the model and configuration. There is a wide range of electric truck size which is built to order. Janus Electric Trucks common base configuration is 45 tons. All about ordering the right truck for the job.

Diesel is the problem. Need a clean no polluting solution.

If they could damage the batteries, they'd likely wreck diesel tanks too.

@@philmarwood69that’s only true of Tesla electric vehicles before they were retrofitted with a titanium piece underneath to protect the batteries. Whether that bit of titanium will hold up on Australian roads is another kettle of fish.

@MrSupercar55 Australia isn't the only place to have gravel roads, we have them here too.

It will be fine.

It’ll be the sustained internal vibration that is the battery killer, not necessarily external rock impacts.

The weight of the batteries is taken into account when setting the weight limits for electric trucks. So they do NOT exceed the maximum weight allowed for other trucks. They cause no more damage than any other heavy vehicle. Also electric vehicles can check and alter traction 1000s of times a second. Combustion engine vehicles simply can't. That means electric trucks are less damaging to the roads because they can minimise or eliminate wheel spin and scrubbing. This also helps keep down particle creation which is another red herring trolls and naysayers like to bring up.

@@trevorberridge6079 well id say if the truck weighs more , it cannot carry the same weight of cargo, before hitting the legal weight limit of laden trucks. Thats simple maths . So for the cargo to move it now needs 2 trucks , 2 trucks uses more tyres , as electric cars wear out there tyres quicker. And the unladen trucks going back , weigh more than a diesel truck, I love maths and science

@@trevorberridge6079 its not the trucks that have limits its the roads ,

100% agree

What a load of old tosh. It really is UK demand for electricity is actually now DOWNward, not upward! And all the actual experts, not dummies who just repeat Big Oil's talking points verbatim, agree that the grid is perfectly capable of taking significantly MORE than is already being produced, not to mention the increasing wind capacity (both offshore and onshore). And that is very much IN SPITE OF the useless, Big Oil-sponsored Tories in power. When Labour get in at the next election, they've already committed to returning to support for improving the energy efficiency of the housing stock etc. which will not only reduce pressure on the grid, but permit a significantly greater amount of that energy to be entirely renewable. Of course, being a Big Oil shill, you'll probably be pro-Tory, which will make your tears at the Tories being ousted far sweeter. And if you're not a Big Oil shill, I'd suggest that, instead of promoting Big Oil's BS propaganda, you actually do some damned research into the actual facts. Because the information about the ability of the UK grid to easily provide sufficient electricity is very easily available.

Lmao so when your head of your national grid said charging EVs wouldn't be a problem, he was lying ? On TV ?

@@philmarwood69 Exactly. UK maximum demand for electricity peaked in 2015. Since then the trend hs been downward. Simply going from incandescents to LEDs reduced power demands by about 15%.

​@David Colin The UK demand drops like a stone at night, you don't run AC etc at night, there's always been plenty of capacity during the night it used to be called Economy 7.

Couldn't agree more. Hydrogen elements is always around us and never runs out. Also, battery production isn't as green as everyone thinks and won't last long.

I completely agree, hydrogen is something I've believed in for a long while now

Long haul logistics shouldn't be on the road in the first place. And there are a lot of applications of trucks (especially in and around cities) where 200 miles of range is enough and the recharge can be done during the night.

There's a home grown Hydrogen truck start up HVS based in Scotland I think. Partly funded by Euro Garages. They have produced a tractor unit.

"hydrogen combustion . . it might still make for 200 miles" What a bunch of insane nonsense. EV Trucks have settled on 400 miles range industry standard. Distribution of Hydrogen Fuel at large scale to feed a city full of cars is not possible. There simply is no such material science for storage capable of doing that at massive scale. Meanwhile electric charging is way easier even if that requires local grid improvements. You still don't need non existent technology.

Tailpipe emmisions* Its a dumb slogan

Were breathing this junk is the problem.

Actually in Europe over 50% of large tractor HGVs like the FH or FM do less that 300km a day, also drivers are required by law to take rest breaks, which is why if you have a daily cycle of less than 500km a day and have access to rapid chargers or 300 km if you do not, then batteries will be the choice with hydrogen and or e fuels being the choice for the rest, but at a premium because their energy costs are going to be 4x that of equivalent battery recharge.

" I love the smell of diesel in the morning". Smells like...victory!

Tesla has a semi that gets 500 miles.

@@Body_Model”Allegedly” ?? 😂🤣

@@DanMar5858 Okay more.

True, I havent had a proper manual truck for nearly 20 years

Nope. Hydrogen and synthetic fuels will always remain a niche for some vehicles (definitely not passenger cars). The vast majority will be battery electric.

@@Simon-dm8zv I really don't have time to educate ignorants like yourself, so let me just copy/paste something I wrote in another comment: """"- it takes approx. 200 tons of rocks, sand, gravel to dig through to get minerals for one battery pack for an EV. - digging up minerals required for EV's - lithium, nickel, cobalt, manganese, palladium - are one of the filthiest industries, especially in Africa. They include child labor, human rights violations and working in conditions below anything acceptable for a human being (like in Congo, Africa). Already massively exploited by US and China. - switching to EV's on a massive scale would require to produce over 300%+ more of electricity, good luck with that. - by using EV's you're not lowering emissions, you're just exporting them somewhere else. - there is not anywhere near enough minerals in the world to switch to EVs."""" ... and that is just the tip of the iceberg of problems with electric cars (recycling, safety problems when they catch fire, list goes on and on). After Porsche more and more companies are investing quickly in e-fuels (just google E-fuel Alliance) which should be available on gas stations by 2030-2035. Toyota has been testing hydrogen combustion engine for a couple of years now which is even better than electric cars powered with hydrogen. You're delusional if you think the whole worlds road transport (or vast majority of it) is going to run on batteries.

massive amounts of what? :P

@@JohanW-Sweden copeium is a substance refined from pure cope when you’re coping so hard that somebody can just walk right past and squeeze the copeium out of the air

😂😂😂@@oler777

Energy experts across the board globally have confirmed that there is no danger supplying enough electricity. In fact, the more EVs there are the less strain there is on the supply because EVs are mobile batteries that can feed power INTO the grid and our homes and our other vehicles. This is already happening. Never mind the expansion of battery farms for storing renewable energy.

Of course not. Ever heard of DC charging? Hydrogen is terribly inefficient.

There are all electric ferry boats now. And some of the world's biggest trucks in commerical use have been converted to electric. They cost a third as much to run and are more reliable. The torque makes them easier to drive on inclines and safer to stop on declines. There are also quarry trucks (you know, the ones that make monster trucks look tiny?) that are all electric. They carry over 110 tons of gravel at a time and never need charging as they create more regen electricity going downhill than they use coming back up. Facts are great.

@@trevorberridge6079 - it takes approx. 200 tons of rocks, sand, gravel to dig through to get minerals for one battery pack for an EV. - digging up minerals required for EV's - lithium, nickel, cobalt, manganese, palladium - are one of the filthiest industries, especially in Africa. They include child labor, human rights violations and working in conditions below anything acceptable for a human being (like in Congo, Africa). Already massively exploited by US and China. - switching to EV's on a massive scale would require to produce over 300% more of electricity, good luck with that. - by using EV's you're not lowering emissions, you're just exporting them somewhere else. - there is not anywhere near enough minerals in the world to switch to EVs. - hydrogen and synthetic fuels are the future. Facts are great.

Hydrogen is difficult to store and massively energy intensive to create. We are currently running LNG trucks and they are also problematic, with poor range, low power output, slow refuel times with little infrastructure to support and reliability issues and you are still burning a finite resource.

​@@trevorberridge6079Good man. I so appreciate you typing all that so I didn't have to.

​@Trevor Berridge so basically the quarry trucks are physics defying perpetual machines?

EV's have one the battle don't expect hydrogen fuel to take off. Not going to happen.

In Australia they have lorries so massive that they aren't even legal in Europe. They are already converting them to electric. A company called Janus swaps out the diesel gubbins and replaces them with electric motors and batteries. The batteries are designed to be used on a swap basis meaning that "recharging" the trucks takes 10 minutes. So "Lorries ha ha" to you. Ignorance is not a virtue.

@@trevorberridge6079 show me the truck going 600+ miles to fill out the day of driving before having to swap that battery. If I'm running coast to coast OTR (which I do) I'm sure as hell not swapping batteries up to 3 times per day (as I would have to with your suggestion of Janus) or charging more than I'm moving. Ignorance truly isn't a virtue, don't wave it like a flag.

@@trevorberridge6079 I do like the idea of electric vehicles, it's just not happening on a massive scale for trucks yet.

@@Raught338 UPS goal is to hit 40% by 2025. Tesla, Volvo , Amazon etc all have EV trucks. It's going to happen.

Next EV Planes.👍

Very well said. We see this every time.

I simply see it as reasonable journalistic balance, without such comparisons it would be an EV puff piece. It’s not unusual for unintended consequences to pop up when the free market is dictated by governments. As a 5 year early adopter EV owner, I note there’s no whole of life costing, say assuming 1 million miles and 5 years: upfront cost, projection of battery life (repeated fast charging), real world loaded range, recharge cost (noting UK public chargers can cost more than operating diesel today), cost of servicing (regeneration should save huge on service brakes), and likely cost of disposal (its most unlikely we’ll be able to drop a battery off at the council recycling centre for free).

When are they coming on the mass market? Hydrogen has been "the next big thing" for decades now. I'd love to see it happen, but the engineering challenges still seem quite steep

Hydrogen trucks still have a chance but that is getting smaller fast. The really big players (Scania, Volvo, Mercedes and Tesla) are favouring battery electric. Also, the only advantage Hydrogen trucks have are range and refueling time. Now this truck can do 250 miles and at the speed these trucks drive that is close to 4 hours of driving, enough to where the driver will need a stop anyway. Also, almost half of trips these trucks make are short haul which these trucks can easily do. Most importantly, the people who buy these trucks are fleet managers who are looking at costs as their primary criteria. Hydrogen trucks loose out especially here as they are more expensive to run, maintain and refuel. Finally, the success of these trucks is dependent on the infrastructure and it is far far easier (and incredibly cheaper) to deploy fast chargers at depots and garages and even on route than it is to build a hydrogen station infrastructure.

@@Mububban23 will never come, too expensive and too much energy to produce. H2 will come to operate plane and flight will be really expensive.

@@ewadge Hydrogen make no sense when you look how much energy you need to use to get it. This is why electrics wins this battle. Same with e-fuel for now it need to cost 25€ per liter do you want to tank your crap old car with this gas price? And the lower price for E-fuel will be between 6-11€... wake up pls!

@@ewadge Your point about drivers needing to stop after 4 hours is very important. There are laws that strictly control how long a driver can drive within a 24-hour period and how much rest time he must have. Yes, those laws vary greatly from one place to another. But, biology doesn't care about law. Your brain needs rest, your bladder needs emptying and your stomach needs filling. You HAVE to stop if you don't want to risk a serious accident (which are common among truck drivers under pressure to drive long hours). In Europe at least it is almost impossible to drive 300 miles without stopping and not break the law. And you aren't allowed to fuel up in "five minutes" (it's NEVER just five minutes total stop time) and just carry on driving. You have to take the required amount of rest time. So, any truck that can drive 250+ miles will do exactly the same amount of miles in any given 24-hour period. The only exception is if they routinely break the speed limit. And yes electricity is EVERYWHERE so putting in chargers is WAY easier than putting in hydrogen pumps which suffer the same logistic and environmental issues as petrol and diesel stations. Ironically, you may find electric trucks carrying hydrogen to hydrogen stations in the future. Also hydgrogen, petrol and diesel stations need electricity to run. So why not just put chargers there? The anti-EV pro-Hydrogen arguments have a looonng looonnng way to go.

Hydrogen is terribly inefficient.

Electric motors have more instant torque off the line than a diesel engine. As far as the fires are concerned, it’ll probably have a kill switch somewhere to de activate the battery pack, diesel catches fire as well you know…

Diesel and petrol EXPLODE. They are volatile combustible liquids that work BECAUSE they are explosive. In the rare conditions that batteries catch fire they have a slow burn - not an explosion. Formula 1 drivers have been horribly maimed and killed because their cars burst into flames in a crash. Richard Hammond got out of an all electric Rimac alive because the badly damaged batteries didn't explode and burst into flames immediately. It was a slow burn. Yes, it was almost impossible to extinguish once it started, but it took a massive crash for it to happen at all and it was safer than being surrounded by flammable liquids. Romain Grosjean had that horrible F1 crash when he got stuck under the barrier. If he hadn't been able to pull his foot loose at the last moment he would have died. Diesel and petrol vehicles are a far greater fire risk than battery vehicles will ever be. Just facts.

@@H.K_R But you can extinguish a diesel fire.