Every Hero's "Worst" Card: Wave 1 (Captain America, Doctor Strange, etc) with  

I am SO sorry about the Black Widow choice... Or do you guys agree?

Thanks for having me! This was a ton of fun and I’m looking forward to the comment section to see how people react… Also can’t wait for the next episode!! 🎉

If Cap and Thor came out today, Shield Toss and Hammer Throw would exhaust their respective weapons rather than return to hand.

For me Hulk's worst card is Banners Lab. The REC and the resource are nice but needing to be in alterego to use the resource limits what you can spend it on. There is only one card in this kit you can actually spend it on. At least spider man has things like Webshooters that let him effectively bank his alterego resource so he can make use of it in hero form, and get two extra resources out of it. It just doesn't seem to fit with the rest of his kit. It could have been interesting to have a design where Banner has loads of resources to help you build your board and then Hulk just smashs but that doesn't seem to be what we got and so the lab feels like it's just thrown in.

Oof Shield Toss is the one that may get you some fan backlash lol!! I hear you on some of the drawbacks of ST that you mentioned (resource costly and shield returning to hand), and while I wish it stunned the enemies it hit (would that be too powerful?) I just think it's such a fun and super satisfying card thematically for Cap! Four damage to potentially five or so enemies?! This is so fun in a multiplayer and it has tipped the scale of quite a few games for us. I have to say Helmet is definitely the worse card in this case and I can't remember playing it or using it. Loving this series by the way, great job to @VillainTheory and @WinningHandPodcast - can't wait for the next video.

I play a lot of multiplayer and find much more value in Shield Toss. I don't always play it, but if they line up the targets for you, it's hard not to knock them all down. It's a very satisfying and thematic card to play.

TLDR: Helmet is worse. The statement describing pitching Shield Toss to get off “4 damage” via basic attacking isn’t a correct evaluation. You’d always have your basic attack anyways so at best it’s worth 2 as a ready. At 2-4 players it’s almost always usable due to minion odds. You only need 1 minion for it to hit efficiency curve since you can always target the villain. Total cost including replaying shield and 2 targets puts it on par with Uppercut in dmg/resource. Every additional target past 2, turns it from good to great.

Captain America, one of my favorite heroes! Here I agree with VT, I’ve used shield toss way more than the helmet, specially after a villain phase goes minion crazy.

Captain: I get some value from Shield Toss, although its certainly not a card I use every game with Cap, and maybe not even every other. I usually play the helmet as a nice insurance, but it's never actually saved me, and I believe I've only seen it triggered once ever. Black Widow: I think there are strong arguments for both cards, but I think Dance of Death is needed more for her, especially solo. Those instances can be a huge boon sometimes, but if you get Modok or Zola, it's really tough on her. I've always wanted to try a protection deck with her, but so far have only done trusty leadership and justice. Hulk: I actually think the arguments against Hulk Smash are pretty valid. I have lost more than one game I should have won from getting exhausted with Hulk the turn I was either going to win or take care of the big threat on the table. But, its also won me games, so there's that. Still think Suborbital Leap is worse, but I do not like the way Hulk Smash is instanced. Ms Marvel: I have only played her in aggression, so Big Hands is the worst card for me. She nearly always has better options, though I usually pass on Red Dagger as well.

Shield Toss isn't a very inefficient card. I agree that it is the second worst card in his kit though. If you hit 1 enemy (the villain) it has an efficiency of (4)/(2+1) = 1.33 which is a bit less than you would normally like. Swinging Web Kick is 2.0 and Uppercut is 1.25. But if you hit 2 enemies with it it has an efficiency of (8)/(3+1) = 2.0 which is on par with swinging web kick. It is definitely true that you might be overkilling minions making it slightly less efficient, but also, what other card can take out that many minions? I agree with basically everything you both said about both cards. I think I prefer Shield Toss over the helmet, because if you are at 1 hp and you can't win next turn you will have to flip down to recover anyways. Note: On the efficiency calculations I did there I was assuming part of the cost was just replaying the shield. It becomes wildly efficient if you don't want to play your shield again lol but I don't think it makes sense to think about it that way.

I really enjoy these videos a lot, mainly because I think the discussion around why these cards are the worst for a hero also reflect on what makes a card good in the first place. With that, I have to levy one major criticism of the video for me: there is too much discussion on (or perhaps stock put in) resource efficiency. Resource efficiency is a very useful tool in evaluating a card compared to other similar cards, but it has to be used in the context of a hero's kit. If you are comparing aspect cards, resource efficiency is a great tool, but comparing a Swinging Web Kick to a Big Hands is and using resource efficiency as a primary criticism is flawed. You are not able to pick one card over another in a deck build, and each card exists in a completely different ecosystem of hero cards. For example, Big Hands is a much more complex card to assess than SWK because you have to consider embiggen, potentially returning the card to your hand with your hero ability, biopolymer suit, etc. In fact, if you play big hands with embiggen, pop it back to your hand, and then play it again, you have spent 5 resources for 10 damage and have the ability to split that damage up into 2 chunks. Also, Peter Parker tends to have more money, and can therefore afford SWK more easily than another character could. All of this to say: I think effective resources/efficiency is a great data point, but it should receive less consideration precisely because these aren't just cards, they are HERO cards. They have to be considered in the broader context of the kit. For example, Ancestral knowledge may actually be a much better card in Ms. Marvel because she already has 3 different named events that are pretty solid, but it's in black panther and therefore its not good. Similarly, Synth-Suit could be really good on a lot of heroes, but is much worse because it is on Black Widow and she wants to play the game away from that upgrade most of the time. I don't want to sound overly harsh or like I want the videos to be something they are not; I really like this discussion and your content as a whole! My biggest pet peeve in MC is people over-using efficiency as a metric, when in my opinion function/synergy/reliability are all more important considerations. And for what it's worth, Synth-Suit would have been my choice over Dance of Death! I will say my actual choice for worst BW card is Widow's Bite, precisely because it was ruled to not work on quickstrike! Since I normally want to kill minions in 1 turn anyway, stunning them doesn't matter. It's biggest positive is that it has a preparation keyword, but that's about it.

In addition to what everyone else has said about Shield Toss, a perhaps unsung bonus is its efficiency at ending the game. If you kill the villain with it, it's an easy 2 resources for 4 damage. I have this come up a fair amount, where having Shield Toss in my hand lets me end the game when a different card wouldn't.

I think Shield Toss was the better choice. The limitations discussed were on point, and I loathe removing the shield from play. His helmet is actually a solid card. It's a bit of very cheap insurance that thins your deck when played. I see almost no down side to the helmet.

Helmet has a good purpose for caught off guard. Besides that Captain America doesn’t need his helmet. Black widow is tough to pick. Probably dance of death? Very tough.

Could not agree more with the points made about 'taxing' certain heroes. I think it was a bad choice to tax Big Hands just because the hero can enhance events. Using Web Swing as a template, I think Big Hands should at least deal 5 damage, which puts it in a window where it's not horrible by itself, but becomes very good when you enhance it.

That's such a wild take on Hulk Smash being the worst card... I've built several decks arounds that specific card! I would argue it's his best card and definitely sounded like he was gunna pull out a loljoke after saying it!

Captain America: I agree with both of you. I like both cards, but they just don't get played very much. BW: DoD is not my favorite card, but it still seems to get played a lot because there aren't very many big damage cards in justice or protection, where BW really shines. Hulk: I agree with VT's thoughts on efficiency vs fun. When someone plays Hulk Smash, they involuntarily announce, "Hulk Smash!" So it's definitely a fun card to play. ;-)

I thought he was trolling with the Hulk Smash pick . I can't think of a reason to play Hulk other than to Smash for 13 with overkill. The fact that it can be hard to pull off is, in a weird way, part of Hulks charm. Like he's so bad that even his good cards can be bad, but it's satisfying when it works.

I really enjoy this series. It is a good thought experiment. However I had to stop the video when you finally picked Big Hands as Ms Marvel worst card. It is definitely Red Dagger. Big Hands is doing what she wants to do which is to play and bounce events. Red Dagger is not doing anything like the rest of her kit. I also hated the final argument of making Red Dagger a basic ally and Big Hands an aggression event. Those are not close to compare. To make it fair, you should have also thought Big Hands as a basic card too. Or a non-aggression event

Edited now I’ve watched the whole video Omg….. I love shield toss. This actually upsets me 😂 If you’ve minions on the board, there is no other card that makes me feel more like Captain America. Admittedly it gets used a lot less at true solo…. But it can be a really efficient card and resources are never an issue in a Captain America deck. Black widow I think it’s widows bite. Thor agreed Doc Strange agreed Hulk agreed Ms Marvel….. is the worst card her hero card and stats, but yes Red Dagger is probably the correct card.

Very fun again. I only really disagree with Shield Toss - would the Helmet be A tier? Shield Toss can be underwhelming but has high ceiling. You never* lose the shield unless you use it as a resource. I'd argue Vapours is DrS worst card as it can gum up the invocation deck... Thor has 5 hand size in AE making For Asgard! that bit more truly terrible which is a shame as he has a few more interesting bad cards to look at. Hulk is depressing. Ms M has a lot of very ordinary cards, it's a wonder she's so good. Red Dagger is imo where allies should be not where they are, especially basics. Still he has no synergy with MsM. BW has no bad cards. Dance and Synth suit are both a bit tricky to play. Dance feels amazing vs 5 hp tough minions and appalling vs Retaliate * Hardly eveeer!

I'm so surprised with Synth Suit! It's my favorite card. It's an auto play as soon as it hits my hand. I play her in protection with the armored vest and having 4 DEF and readying every villain phase by triggering preparation cards feels nice. And every time I flip down with Black Widow, I regret it because then I can't trigger my cool preparations.

Cap's Helmet is his worst card, because in a multi-hero game Shield Toss is amazing for minion control. Hulk Smash is not Hulk's worst card, it's actually his best. If Hulk and Rogue are out, Rogue is going to use Superpower Adaptation to grab Hulk Smash.

As someone who has played Black Widow more than any other hero I feel she probably has one of the most consistently solid signature decks and frankly is one of the few decks I can't pick a worse one but I do feel you views are at least well defended. Synth suit is great if you can't chump block every time or go up against villains with overkill or more recently punish chump blocking and nothing pinks off Tough better than the Dance of death. It is also good at taking out minions. Honestly BW has probably one of the most solid signatures decks in the whole game along side Domino for me though Domino has atleast one card while I love could be considered her "worst"

I've played Thor more than any other hero, and I have to say I think Lightning Strike may be worse than For Asgard. They're about equal. The problem with Lightning Strike now is that (at least for me) Thor is a very heavy Physical resource deck, rather than Energy. Currently I have 20 Physicals, so it is very hard to get Lightning Strike to deal real damage. It has value late game, but most of the time it is a dead draw. Aggression Thor also has access to an extremely efficient event base nowadays, and isn't really hurting for damage. Conversely, For Asgard is useless most of the game but is one of the best cards to have opening hand to ensure having Bifrost. FA also has a Physical resource for cards like Blade, Hulk, or Jarnborn, whereas LS has Mental, easily the worst resource type for Thor.

Magical Enhancements doesn't even thin your deck. It goes away at the end of the round.

Love this topic. I’d give it a million thumbs up if I could and you two work well together. As far as cap goes what’s funny is I’ve played the shield toss more than the helmet but think that the helmet is a better card strangely.

Great discussion. Thank you for this!

Totally agree with For Asgard! The only good use for it is in a deck where you want to search our Lady Sif for Sidekick or MAYBE really need The Bifrost.

If For Asgard flipped you to alter-ego it would be viable, but then that would be the main effect.

I honestly don't think I've ever even used For Asgard. And I've played Thor a lot.

Hulk smash is an amazing card.

The problem I have with your Black Widow choice is that it sounds like you're assuming that she's always in Justice. In Aggression or Protection I'm not sure if she would have the thwarting ability to keep up with threat if she went down every other turn.

I don’t know that I ever played Caps helmet.

After a strong start with the core set, this was a disappointing set of cards you chose. Magical Enhancements is not only Strange's worst card, it's among the very worst hero cards in the whole game. It's literally the same thing as Morale Boost, which you note. D-tier for sure, maybe just above Ground Stomp (another candidate for worst hero card in the game, btw). Also pretty disappointed that Big Hands was chosen for Kamala. Red Dagger is clearly her worst card. Shield Toss, while not close to Cap's best card, is still fantastic value in a multiplayer game. Once you're hitting 2+ targets, it's above curve, and only gets better with more targets. If you were resolved to pick it over the Helmet (which is clearly worse), it should have been in S-tier for sure.

Shield toss vs Helmet, I think really comes down to solo vs MP. Shield Toss is a perfectly serviceable aoe card in MP especially since it can hit minions on multiple players and I play more than helmet. But I can see the opposite being true in solo. BW is definitely tricky as no bad cards. I agree w VT and think it's Synth suit as it's aspect dependent. Good in Prot, but I don't actually like BW-P (too slow), making it really only good in L as RR can trigger it in hero phase. Ms Marvel is also tricky, but I also think Red Dagger. Decent card but doesn't synergize. And I'm sorry, calling Hulk Smash his worst card is a wild take (it's his best card lol) it's Suborbital for sure.

For me: Cap. America: Toss > Helmet, I play the helmet to take it out of the deck. Black Widow: I like Dance of Death more than the Synth-Suit, still think the suit is very good though, but I'm usually not playing it until I can really afford it 💰 Hulk: Hulk Smash! is his best card, that's usually how I finish villains , if you have to play Sub-Orbital Leap is probably because your allies or other players are not doing well.

Hulk's worst card is his identity card.

Ask and ye shall receive!

If the Hulk pick was used to illicit comments, then cool. But (and it's just my opinion as well) if that's really how the guest rates cards, then I certainly won't be running to listen to a podcast where he shares these opinions. Seriously, it's such a bad take, I'm glad VT almost instantly contradicted it. Idk maybe it was just a joke.

I'm sorry but I have never heard of the winning hand before and after this video, I will definitely not be following him. So many awful takes from that guy.