I think what makes Carnage vs Lucy not feel like a stomp (At least to me) is Carnage's sheer confidence throughout the fight. While Carnage is getting his shit kicked in, he dosn't act like it. Carnage knows full well he just needs one hit to win (As far as he knows) and he dosn't give a single fuck about Lucy's attacks because he knows he can keep getting back up.
As for his Deadpool vs The Mask criticism, I think Nemesis was too hopped up on external factors that had no reason to be in the review, the external factors being past Death Battles with stompish outcomes. Of course, they weren't going to reference that many episodes in one conclusion, and they were definitely not going to analyze all of them in a twenty-minute long video. Who does he think they are, hapless nerds who make hour-long retro... oh. Methinks he might be projecting himself on that last one.
I am actually fine with Wolverine's explanation of his powers for two reasons. 1. Raiden askes him if he's a cyborg, so the explanation is not entirely unpromted. 2. After the explanation, Wolverine has that really snarky 'does that count?' that fits how he's portrayed in the fight
The Lucy vs Carnage fight just kind of reminded me of Jotaro vs Kenshiro. An opponent keeping their distance so they would not get damaged using an external long ranged ability. I did not really think that Jotaro was gonna win because of that with the knowledge I had of Jotaro and seeing Kenshiro being more based on melee combat. This may be wrong since I do not know much about Lucy, but it made sense for me. I am a bigger fan of Jotaro vs Kenshiro though.
To me Carnage vs Lucy is similar to Ben 10 vs Green Lantern how rigged theepisode is. But Chorus of Carnage is like one of Death Battle's best soundtracks.
@@glennthehelper4524 that's why I said it's similar to Ben 10 vs Green Lantern. Although Lucy winning makes some sense, they handled the execution badly throughout the fight. Like Nemesis said, Carnage should had allowed Lucy to go all out n her melting then evaporated Carnage. Heck Death Battle had it on the analysis. N would been great for the first Horror Theme Battle they manage to miss far short from greatness
@@dmcx-tv2308 pretty sure carnage doesn't have a weakness to fire anymore. And Carnage has survived star level attacks. Far above anything Lucy has shown capable of.
9:56 It happened to the Frieza sprite in One Minute Melee Mewtwo VS Frieza rematch, right before the fight begins, when it says "this oughta be a match to remember". Loved your raking. Although the Ultron VS Sigma part had the music too loud.
Is there a reverse "Golden Tree Feat" term? We need a phrase to reference either an exaggerated or over simplified weakness that winds up being harder to exploit than it sounds or a feat that was doubted or downplayed until it's proven beyond a doubt. Ultron's history with computer viruses, Jon Talbain bragging about his speed only to have that boast hold weight, debatably even Church's initial lack of combat experience. If you need another example, it'd be like if in Wario vs Dedede, they claimed that Dedede has never beaten Kirby, heavily implying he shouldn't scale, only to then say "Actually he's held his own quite well" more than halfway into the conclusion.
I think the term would either have to be either named after the first instance of this or the worst example. The Golden Tree feat is a good name to me because that was the first time I was really taken out of an episode because they were like "Beast can do this...but not really". I don't really notice the reverse often and I would be more inclined to include it as a Golden Tree feat moment though it is a different thing so should have a different term.
With the sheer number of Marvel vs DC fights we have gotten over the years I am kinda shocked that we haven’t ever seen Justice League vs Avengers in some form. It’s not exactly a fair fight, but I would pay to see it done well
Yeah it’s kinda weird how much they shy away from Team Battles in general. The only time they really do stuff like that is when an army is a part of the combatant’s arsenal like Eggman vs Wily, Gray vs Esdeath, or Steven vs Star. The one exception I can think of is Jak and Daxter vs Ratchet and Clank but the only reason that one’s a team battle is because it’d be weird to have the characters separated.
@@TripleSakaTrip team battles absolutely suck to choreograph and I imagine they suck to animate as well. Especially with such big names like you get with Avengers vs Justice league and you want to make sure each character gets a moment to shine. That said, when they are done correctly it can be really, really incredible. If I were writing it I would do MCU Avengers vs DCEU Justice League to save myself some headache.
Honestly agree with most of if not, all of your thoughts here. Ultron Vs. Sigma was based, Thor Vs. Raiden was a great early episode and Shredder Vs. Silver Samurai has one of the coolest deaths ever. Now for Carnage Vs. Lucy, Chorus of Carnage is my favorite track to date by a long shot (with other ones being Wings of Iron, Madness Envenom and Infection Perfection) for the most part. The problem lies in that this episode felt like a huge middle finger to Carnage and his fans other than that. The animation was fun in the beginning and his VA did a great job making him entertaining even though some of his lines weren't really accurate to his character. He wouldn't say idiotic lines constantly questioning why he can't attack her and then proceed to mindlessly attack Lucy this badly. Carnage contrary to popular belief is incredibly analytical in combat and even states that he looks for features on his opponents that seem like weaknesses. For Lucy, this would likely be her horns. Perhaps the worst part about this is just how incompetent Carnage is portrayed to be as a character and villain. He's a character who is supposed to represent the story around abuse and pain as well as how it shaped him to become one of the most evil monsters one can encounter. What makes him terrifying isn't just that he kills, it's his motivation. He wants to intrinsically devolve the world into the same chaos and pain he's experienced himself. He wants to make a world of monsters just like him. A villain so one-note and unintelligent wouldn't have such a grand ambition. This isn't even commenting on the fact that he's actually succeeded in doing so. Even when he's lost a battle, he'll always win the war. As long as he causes pain, that's all that matters to him because for once he won't be the only one consumed by insanity and agony. If he lost the battle, his final line should've been a masochistic laugh or "Haha, you really are a monster like me...I knew it..." Something along those lines, all that matters is that it should be haunting. Carnage is shown to not even value his own life. He's literally stated that he's been excited to die like his victims. This isn't a victory that should feel like it came with no disadvantages. He doesn't see a point in living and that's why he's so dangerous. He doesn't care what someone does, as long as he's forced them to get violent, he's won in his eyes. He doesn't even need to have a physical chance against someone to leave an impact on them. His mentality is what makes him haunting. As for who would win? I still think it's Carnage and not just because I like him. Lucy can't kill him. Even without his incinerate immunity, he's handled more dangerous opponents and explosions (IE: Gene Bomb (which flash-fries) and Nukes (Venom took the nukes but still applies))and still managed to come out on top. We don't even need to include Dark Carnage because then Lucy wouldn't have a chance against him. The dude literally no diffed two Ghost Riders by himself lmfao. Besides, Dark Carnage wasn't revealed prior to this fight. Bloodlusted Venom prior to reaching Herald Tier, was implied to be able to kill Ghost Riders and was able to kill demons despite them already being dead. Carnage is obviously statistically better than Venom, so this would apply to him as well. Carnage's speed is consistently scaled at MFTL+ even at his base. I have to disagree with the researchers on his possession and mind hax being ineffective on her. Carnage's most dangerous move (Mind Bomb) has broken everyone he's used it on. The Mind Bomb was able to turn Kurtz into a mindless and chaotic cannibal. This was just a tiny peak into his mind. He also Mind Bombed Hulk who has been shown to resist a handful of mental attacks. Granted, Hulk isn't the best dude at countering such things, but still. The Mind Bomb oneshot him btw. Even though he was Dark Carnage at the time, the mental attack he uses to counter Hulk is not in any way implied to be amped by the codices he collected. Base Carnage was able to successfully infect Wolverine and Cap along with other Avengers at once. Wolverine was able to successfully resist Emma's mind hax and Cap was able to overpower some mind control through sheer willpower alone. Despite this, they were both enslaved to him and he was just infecting them which has nowhere near the capabilities of the Mind Bomb. Even if Lucy went into her melting phase and tried to use the Apocafist on him, she'd die in the process and with his heat immunity (which he had prior to being Dark Carnage as he got it in his 2016 Conway run) the mystical curse of the Darkhold would likely negate or at the very least lessen its impact by a ton. It's an amalgamation of all these issues I have with the episode that leaves me with a bitter taste overall when being reminded of its existence. However, the song and cool moments of the animation are amazing. I really got to give props to Chris as the VA of Carnage as well. Don't quite know what I'd rate it though lol.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it false on the part they mentioned that Carnage couldn't mind control someone with a Projectile too? Also I feel like they never mentioned Lucy's glaring weakness that she will start melting when she uses too much of her power during the explanation and analysis. But thats probably cause we never see her get all melty in the animation fight.
@@Minious1020 You're right, yes. While he doesn't do it often via projectiles, he's shown that he can. Red Goblin planted a piece of the Carnage Symbiote akin to the projectiles he'd use as weapons on Normie Osborn, and it was enough to infect him. Likewise, Cletus himself has infected people through sending chunks of himself through wiring and cables before. They brought up Lucy's meltdown weakness only in the end of her analysis, but never at all assessed it as a potential win con for Carnage simply because they didn't think he'd be able to push her to that point for whatever reason. It's even more absurd when you think about it because the Apocafist move she uses to supposedly kill Carnage is something she's only really capable of in her meltdown mode from what I can recall meaning she'd have to be killing herself to use it. At that point, the vectors are stated to become visible too, so Carnage would have an even easier time avoiding them in theory. On top of that, none of her other attacks are even able to pose much of a threat to him and even then, I still don't buy the Apocafist killing him when he's had heat and sonic immunity via mystical means through the Darkhold which Lucy has no way of countering or even knowing about to begin with. Just like with Venom Vs. Crona, I think the extensive history and directions Symbiotes are constantly being taken in leads to a lot of misunderstandings as well as their overall nature and how they function.
I think you are the best DB commentary channel out there. I want you to know that out of the whole world you are #1 in that regard. The amount of dedication/sincerity it must have taken to see the missing shot from Ultron vs Sigma and then find it in the music video.
Maaaaan. You and Biff are reinforcing my hatred for certain episodes today and even exposing new things I dont like... Im all for it personally. Never even noticed how MUCH of a spite stomp Carnage vs Lucy was animation wise.
Same here, the mostly good animation, terrific voice acting and banger soundtrack really distracts you from how much the animators/show runners hate Carnage during the episode.
I am so glad someone else can talk about how awesome Thor vs. Raiden was. Also, to anyone wondering what the song that was used for that fight, "Liquid Tension Experiment - Acid Rain".
*Raiden vs Thor: Funnily enough with this episode, when I was younger I actually thought Raiden had a chance. My mindset was that while Thor is stronger, Raiden is faster and a better fighter so I could see him doing more damage and avoiding more shots and I also considered the possibility of him lifting Mjolnir since to me I was like "Raiden is a hero, he protects Earthrealm, why wouldn't he be able to wield it?" and if he did, it would close any gap in power they had. Now though, I realize just how much of a stomp it was in favor of Thor, it wasn't even close. Between this fight and Barry vs Quicksilver, I use these as examples of a fight where people look only at the similarities and not the power levels. Scorpion vs Ghost Rider sounds cool, but Ghost Rider stomps Scorpion hard. The only reason I would like to see Scorpion vs Kratos is because I could actually see Scorpion possibly winning whereas I can't for him against Ghost Rider despite them both being flaming skull, hell fire wielding hell spawn. I think the only way Raiden could ever stand a chance against Thor is if you composited him, like gave him every non canon thing he's done because then he's a planet shaker if not buster who can keep up with Superman, Shazam and a fusion of Darksied and Shao-Kahn and in one MK comic, him and Fujin were fighting Shinnok and shook all the realms so a composite Raiden could do well against Thor, canon Raiden gets swatted like a fly. *Wolverine vs Raiden: Huh, funny how the first two fights on this list have a guy name Raiden in it. Similar to Beast vs Goliath, I was originally bored of this fight because at first I thought the only connection was they had slashy things to cut people, I didn't realize they had more similarities like Beats and Goliath so that made it a lot more interesting for me. Also as you said, its not one sided even if Raiden is faster and stronger so it actually seems like Wolverine could win and while I am not sure if its accurate, the fact that Death Battle actually went out of the way to see if there was any method to damage Adamantium that Raiden could replicate for this fight instead of just going "Its unbreakable so Wolverine wins" is awesome. Like, even if their claims or research is shown to be false, the fact that they at least seem to be trying makes me respect them more. Apparently their explanation for Hulk's healing in Hulk vs Doomsday was wrong but at least they showed they researched that enough to find a probable cause for why it failed in that instance. *18 vs Carol Danvers: This nothing really to hate about this episode for me, I mean I don't like Carol as a character anymore but there is nothing that bothered me too bad in this but man is it a very flawed episode. I thought the biggest issues were them giving 18 energy absorption and saying she may be able to bust a planet but those animation errors...yeesh. One thing you didn't point out is that the flame effect on Carol's head sometimes shows that they just erased Carol's hair for the sprite for this and it looks weird. It looks like Carol was scalped whenever the fire moves away from her head, they really couldn't have just made some Binary sprites without that shitty fire effect? Also don't get at all what the connection was, like....they're blond and use energy attacks and thanks to poor research, 'both' of them absorb energy but that's about it. At that point I might as well put Cole McGarth from INfamous against Jin Kazama from Tekken since both are dudes with electricity attacks, not much else in common but apparently they don't need it. At least Carol vs Shazam made sense due to them both at one point or another carrying the Captain Marvel name and that has a more meta significance since I think Marvel started calling Carol Captain Marvel just so DC couldn't call Billy that so that makes sense, why was Carol fighting 18 again..? *Shredder vs Silver Samurai: Honestly as I get older I start to really dislike when Death Battle composites a character. I used to not care at all, didn't mind when they did it to Zelda even though each Zelda is a different person in each game (with exceptions being when its the same cast in the next game) and also didn't bat an eye the first time they did it in Link vs Cloud but now I just wish they'd follow in the footsteps of Wally vs Archie Sonic where they use a specific version of a character. The only Shredder I can think of that I actually like is the 03 Shredder, Ch'Rell I think his name was, that version is brutal as shit and I would love to see a cool matchup for this version but if they do what they did in this episode, they wouldn't really focus on what he does in the 03 show which is sad because the 03 Shredder eventually gets a suit that can grow to building sizes which would be awesome but if they just composite every version, that would be more of an outlier for composite Shredder and wouldn't be used. Its not really bad for this episode because as you said, they almost entirely focus on one version of Shredder and only really add a few stuff from other versions, similar to how they only really focused on the canon versions of Goku and Superman and only added a few non canon bits so its not as bad as Peach vs Zelda and Cloud vs Link 1-2 but would be cool if they just focused on individual versions because that opens up a lot more possibilities for matchups then just a composite. As for the fight itself, I agree with everything you said, it was great and they portrayed their conclusion well. That's something I love about these reviews, I never really notice on my first watch that the animation sometimes does that like say with Thor vs Raiden, didn't really think about how Thor felt stronger but Raiden felt stronger or this where they never got a real hit until the end because they only really needed one hit.
Actually ran out of space...I talk too much in my comments. *Carnage vs Lucy: I recall feeling the same way about this as I did Raiden vs Wolverine and Beast vs Goliath and again finding it kinda cool when there were more similarities besides murder machines so I find that kinda funny how this is the third Marvel vs not DC fight where I had that issue before it being removed by more connections. As for the episode, I enjoyed it a lot, partly because I watched Elfen Lied as a kid (why was kid me watching something like that?) so it was cool just seeing something from my childhood and I was completely sold on the outcome and so far the arguments against it that people have given me haven't made me think otherwise. I imagine Carnage stomps hard now with all the stuff they're doing with Symbiotes but for where he was at before, makes sense to me and the animation definitely fit both characters in terms of how they act, Carnage being a brutal and sadistic murderer while Lucy starts off in an innocent persona before going cold and merciless, that was perfect and I did like how like the last fight mentioned, the fight matched their conclusions where they said Carnage couldn't touch Lucy so in the fight, he doesn't. I do however completely agree with you, even if that is the case...the fight is for entertainment...make it entertaining. Yes, I found it entertaining as is but your take on the fight sounds even cooler. Both characters are brutal, uncaring murder machines so having them both practically mutilate each other with Lucy winning but VERY badly damaged would be perfect. They did it with Jon vs Sabrewulf where both were feral beasts so both were heavily damaged so they could clearly do it here. I'd rank this fight higher than you but I completely understand why you ranked it as you did. I mostly like it because its a character I used to like as a kid and research that seems very accurate for the time it was produced as well as having more connections than I would have thought so me liking it more is merely because there was more in it for me than you. So yeah, I like it, completely understand why you don't, you made your case very well. *Sigma vs Ultron: Not much I can think of to say here, its just a cool episode. At worse it just has two 'Golden Tree' moments, the first being the virus thing and the other being "Sigma scales to Megaman who scales to Duo who is this fast" only to go "Duo wasn't even trying so Megaman, and thus Sigma, don't scale to him". Like..if that's not a thing then DON'T MENTION IT. I don't get why they do this...I feel like maybe its to misdirect the viewer so the outcome doesn't seem obvious, since if they said Ultron can only be defeated by viruses specifically tailored to him then no one would think the Sigma Virus would work but the way they go about it makes it seem more like they just fucked up. Like they said a character could do something or couldn't do something then suddenly "But wait, they can!". Then say they can, let us figure it out on our own, if we do then that means we were paying attention to your show which is a good thing. You shouldn't need to just hide the outcome from us, chances are we are familiar enough with the character to have a conclusion before the fight and everything you say during the episode would just reaffirm it, don't lie just to hide who wins because it just makes you seem dumb. All in all though, this is a good fight. *Black Widow Maker: Same with the last fight, can't say much. Liked they had similarities and I didn't notice the jank like you did though yeah...that flip with the grapple looked dumb as hell. Its not a bad episode but its one of those episodes like Sektor vs Fulgore where I kinda forget it exists until it's brought up. Hell, as I was typing this I even accidentally put Kilgore instead of Fulgore, that's how much I forgot about that fight and see this fight as near the same level. At best I won't forget what the matchup was due to the names but yeah, if I was thinking about each Death Battle season, this is an episode I'd forget just because there wasn't anything super good or super bad here. Its just a matchup that happened. *Deadpool vs Mask: Honestly didn't really like this one. I kinda hated how they kept using Deadpool and kept putting him against 4th Wall breakers. I get it, he funny guy who talks to viewers...you do know there is more to him to that, right Death Battle? I do feel like a bit of an idiot, I didn't pick up on the fact that it was a spite match even though everything clearly spelled it out. In my eyes, the low balling was just jokes and even the teaser for it where it was like "I think we have someone who can deal with Deadpool" just felt like a teaser and not them just saying they are getting a guy to get rid of Deadpool. Despite that though I am still not fond of this, its a repeat character again using the same schtick they did last time, 4th wall breaking though at least there was more of a point to it here. I usually always groan when a character returns unless the match is interesting to me, like I thought Lex vs Dr. Doom should have happened before their previous fights so I didn't mind it there but this one I had no interest in because it was Deadpool for the third time against another 4th wall breaker. Honestly its not a bad episode, I just had no interest in it and was annoyed at the idea of it, less so now that I know what its suppose to be but still, I'd rather Deadpool get a matchup with more thought put into it. Its funny how the most unique fight for him in my eyes was against Deathstroke. It was just a Marvel vs DC counterparts fight but that actually went into multuple sides of Deadpool, not just that he breaks the 4th wall. These fights also seem to breed the misconception that Deadpool is a cosmic 4th wall breaker, like he could just erase characters with a pencil like he's a Looney Tunes character when I have only ever seen him talk to the audience most of the time. On a final note, that intro segment for Deadpool vs Mask made me laugh. The whole video was entertaining but that part really did make me laugh. I plan to rewatch that after I post this comment (that I had to split up because I typed too much...).
After the Lucy vs Carnage fight wiz just says " Carnage was a Challenging opponent " and that bothers me because I feel like they always say that with no hesitation, like with what we just saw was carnage REALLY a challenging opponent.
Even to this day Wolverine vs Raiden is my absolute favorite episode of Death Battle. I was a Raiden fanboy for months after it dropped. I only wish I hadn't gotten spoiled of the winner beforehand, but that did *not* affect my experience watching it. A masterpiece of an episode.
This is my favorite episode tied with snake vs fisher considering that they’re both 10/10 episodes imo. Those two death battles as well as smash bros got me into the metal gear solid series as a whole.
@@glennthehelper4524 Do you just comment that to everyone talking about how much they enjoy Wolverine vs Raiden? Because unless I'm mistaking you for someone with the exact same profile picture and username, you commented the exact same thing when I talked about how much I love the episode in Nemesis's Steven Universe vs Star Butterfly review a month ago. We get it, you personally disagree with the outcome. I disagreed with Naruto vs Ichigo and you don't see me saying "oh, they got it wrong" whenever someone talks about how much they loved that episode. This is all subjective anyway.
About shredder potrayal the flaw that he as in the 2012 show aren't exactly useful in a versus fight notably an obsession with vengeance and he is basically losing his mind when splinter is in the picture. They also only mock 1987 shredder who while threatening as is silly moment and movie shredder who did loose a lot of is cool in the second movie. 2003 shredder and idw isn't mock. I think they avoided 2003 Shredder because they were multiple shredder and his backstory was way différents than a lot of other Shredder.
They composited Shredder because he was fundamentally the same character but in different stories. 2003 Shredder was simply too different from the others to be used.
Yeaah, I don't like Carnage VS Lucy either. I mean the fight would be a stomp, but it just feels.. lame. I love Lucy, and I love Carnage. But there is so much character that could've been used by Carnage, trying to manipulate Lucy and abusing the fact she's got a horribly fucked up past. Then during the fight, she's genuinely being nerfed mentally by Carnage and this gives her a reason to push herself and her powers to overcome this *and* his regeneration. Maybe she loses a leg, and she's backed against a wall, then she uses her full power to nuke Carnage from orbit. Thus, leading to her winning, but actually making it.. fun 🤔 "It's raining.. you're bleeding.. Carnage is STARVING!" is one of my favourite one liners of the franchise, hands down.
14:17-14:32 That also applies to Bowser Vs Eggman imo. They can focus on the goofy versions, but it could focus on the intimidating and threatening sides of them showing how dangerous they can be.
Eggman in particular. I mean, bowser has had some pretty baller intimidation moments, but Jesus crist, for coming from a franchise based around a speedy blue hedgehog fighting an egg, Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnic can be bloody terrifying, especially once you look into the comic incarnations. Jeebus.
I think you were way to forgiving on android 18 vs Captain marvel. They have blatantly wrong information for 18, such as her being able to absorb energy is straight up wrong. No version of 18 in the entire series has been able to absorb energy. The wrong info in 18's analysis brings this down to a 4/10 for me. It's not the worst in the world but the information being wrong on 18 brings it down alot since I know her as a Dragon ball z fan.
The most upsetting thing is that they only put 18 at Mach 443 which is bullshit since OG Dragon Ball were casual lightning timers, and *Saiyan saga* Goku and all the casuals of freeza saga being FTL I just looked in the comments and DB placed her at 2% SoL which is *still* bullshit because FTL dragon ball has been around since Saiyan saga
@@TheSentientDoor To be fair, DragonBall itself is really bad at understanding the speed of its characters. As you said, OG DragonBall had casual lighting timers and DBZ had Goku fly halfway across Namek in about a second, all the way back in the Freeza Saga. But then Super introduces Dyspo and makes a big deal out of him being "faster than light". Not "x times faster than light" but just simply "he can move even faster than light itself".
12:34 behold, one of my favorite shots in all of DB. It's fucking terrifying to see the fire, and shredder lumbering towards the silver samurai. It puts you in shoes, and really makes you feel his moment of "oh shit, I'm probably going to die here."
@@kubakaczmarek2399 It doesn't help that the episode suffers from Death Battle Syndrome, where new info comes out that invalidates the winner (i.e. Absolute Carnage)
@@kubakaczmarek2399 She could've killed Carnage in her nuke form, definitely. The problem is she would absolutely not survive that long. First, Carnage has much more experience in fighting and dealing with different opponents. Not a deciding factor, but it does help. Second, they lowballed Carnage's speed an absurd amount. I don't see how anyone could put Carnage at bullet level LOL. He's massively supersonic at the least, enough to blitz Lucy. And finally, Lucy does not start out with her useful stuff. She'd see Carnage, tear him up IF she reacts in time, thinks she's won, and proceeds to get ripped apart by Carnage who can regenerate from all of Lucy's attacks. She doesn't have the durability or a healing factor to endure Carnage, who has gone up against characters with insane durability and won. And no, Lucy slowly melting and still being conscious does not do anything for her. Getting torn apart and more at high speeds kills way faster and harder than melting. So, by death battle's rules of looking at how often they would win out of a hundred or so fights, Lucy only wins if she can fight Carnage with a nuclear attack before he kills her. Which, as I've outlined above, would be a good majority of the time.
I want to point out Carnage VS Lucy was the random fight in a season where they wanted only the most popular fights, so some guy hated Carnage so much that he managed to put it in during a season supposed to be for popular matchups.
"This fight is essentially the "Shit on Carnage" show" THANK YOU SO MUCH Carnage is my favourite character of all time, and seeing his personality get reduced to just "serial killer", and him being treated like a fucking moron who can't fight and get shitstomped makes me genuinely depressed. I don't even care that he lost, it's just how he lost that upsets me.
One of the best parts of Shredder vs Silver Samurai is that you can actually hear that no blows are being landed, with most of them either missing or connecting with the other’s blade or armor.
I've alwats seen the dynamic of Carnage Vs. Lucy being that while Carnage cannot get a hit in, Lucy is not able to kill him. Like two super powerful people who are not able to get to eachother. Every failed blow from Carnage is countered by him just simply walking off the most brutal of attacks such as being smashed, sliced into pieces and ripped apart. Like Carnage never gets an attack that really matters on Lucy but based on how powerful Carnage's healing factor is, I'd say neither does Lucy get an attack that matters on him (until the kill of course.)
This video idea was on the top of my head for what you were going to do next. Great stuff! How about after the DC vs. Non-marvel review video, you review every anime themed episode of Death Battle?
Carnage is my favorite Marvel character by a long shot. And this was the first Death Battle I think I ever watched. It surprises me consistently that I kept watching the show.
Lucy vs Carnage is an awesome but flawed episode. I disagree with your assessment that carnage not getting any solid hits making this a stomp, because it really was a one hit battle, it's no different from shredder vs silver samurai. It's just that Carnage's means of stopping damage happens to be a lot bloodier than Lucy's. I agree that puddle Lucy should played some part in the fight to make it seem closer, but that's far from my biggest issue with it. That would actually be a part that you praised in the vid. This is the only death battle where I can't take the hand drawn stuff seriously in the slightest. I like what a lot of the shots are going for, but geez. Something about the art for this episode and only this episode has a distinct air of... how do I describe it? Early DeviantArt...ness. Especially on Lucy.
Weirdly, I kind of understand your view that the hand-drawn stuff looks early DA-ish... but for some reason it doesn't bother me 😄 For me, they contrasted very nicely with the bloody sprite fight going on! (Except for Giraffe Neck Lucy)
@@MIrfanPerdana normally that's now I feel about the more detailed or drawn stuff. A nice change of style and a way to add punctuation to certain actions and moments. But for whatever reason the stuff in this episode makes me wanna chuckle, especially on lucy. I never even felt that way for hand-drawn Tatsumaki or any of sanji vs rock lee which I know are episodes more commonly looked at as examples of hand drawn bits being jank(I still see and acknowledge that jank, it just was never so intrusive before or since Lucy vs Carnage imho). Especially with death battle's potential for hand drawn awesomeness being raised to new heights in the very previous episode.
Carnage vs Lucy is one example of Nemesis either not understanding the characters or is blindsided by his distaste for Lucy. The thing about Lucy is that without her powers, she has the same weaknesses as any other human. She cannot afford to get hit because if she does, then she's fucked that's why her vectors compensate that with her speed. If Carnage lands one hit, she's pretty much dead that's why she's the one initiating the fight. This match was far from one-sided, Carnage needed only one fatal attack to end the fight but he wasn't fast enough to do it. I like Nem but this is one of his takes I cannot agree on.
Can't you say the same for a ton of other fights In wolvering vs raiden. Wolvering could kill raiden in a couple hits Jonthan vs tanjiro. Even death battle admits that jonthan had some moves that could straight up one shot tanjiro Yet in both fights. Both jonthan and wolvering both had at least major hits in the fight. Carnage has no major hits at all in the fight. Carnage is one of if not the ONLY charater in death battle that doesn't get a major hit in at all(well if you count deadpool vs the mask but even in that fight deadpool still cane back). At least Michaelangelo was able to land a couple good hits on leronardo. And sonic in the 2018 mario vs sonic got plenty of good hits in. Carnage basically had no good hits
ngl , the voice acting and music track for the fight in Lucy Vs carnage is what makes it a top 10 DB for me - i dont know why it's just the one fight i'll always go back to watch when i have nothing else to do
I mean I understand why carnage didn't land any blows. If he actually got a hit off then people would complain that he should win cause he could infect and kill her at that point.
@@gameuniverse5973 carnage only needs 1 microscopic piece of the symbiote to kill her read carnage usa cause carnage speed blitz her and has hacks lucy has the edge on strength tho
I know it isn't relevant to the video, but I really need to share a Death Battle idea I've had that I would love to see. It's unorthodox, but it'd be really interesting to see. The Dovahkiin vs. Commander Shepard. Why is this such a great matchup? 1. They're the customisable protagonists of the biggest WRPGs of the early 2010s, where the player can choose what they say and do, while ultimately being heroes in the main story. 2. They both have powers that mess with the very fabric of reality. The Dovahkiin has his shouts, and Shepard has his/her biotics. 3. Both have access to similar powers, such as fire blasts, ice blasts, mind manipulation, slowed perception of time, increased damage resistance etc. 4. Both their stories focus on them being the driving force behind defeating an ancient race of evil beings that return during the events of their games. 5. Both are the only hope for defeating the villains, having a reputation for killing the beings many consider unkillable. There are probably way more connections, but those are the ones that immediately come to mind. And for anyone wondering how it would be a competition if Shepard has guns, the Dragonborn has multiple ways around them with his/her wards, intangibility shout, disarming shout etc.
@@noname-do5wo Composite Shepard and composite Dragonborn. Shepard has all abilities he/she can have, Dragonborn has all spells and skill tree abilities.
Nemesis Bloodryche, yeah, I hate Carnage VS Lucy as well. They lowballed Carnage heavily. Carnage can scale to Spider-Man who has consistent FTL+ speeds, but they put Carnage at Mach 2. Plus, Carnage can reach to City to Mountain via scaling to Spider-Man and Venom before Venom got his God powers. And holy crap, did they lowball the Gene Bomb, even if it wasn't planet, it still would be equal or above Lucy's island since it was going cover the entire surface of Earth. They did my boi Carnage dirty.
Also, the Gene Bomb wasn't a biological weapon as Death Battle claimed. It was stated in the comic that the bomb would "flash-fry" all non-mutants around the world. It was a bomb that would have produced a tremendous amount of heat to instantly disintegrate humans around the world. Carnage should have been toast, yet he survived.
Nice vid: My ratings: Thor vs Raiden: 7/10, a lot better than Thor's other DB episode lol Wolverine vs Raiden: 8.5/10, it's no Snake vs Sam but still a pretty good episode. Android 18 vs Captain Marvel: 6/10, sleep asf Shredder vs Silver Samurai: 7.5/10: Wasn't my favorite at the start but that ending was really good. A bone chilling ending brought this episode above the average one that it was before. Carnage vs Lucy: 3/10, one of the worst DB episodes of all time. still waiting for a good symbiote episode lol Ultron vs Sigma: 8.5/10: great episode, love the army fight and the ending. Black Widow vs Widowmaker: 4/10, sleep asf Deadpool vs The Mask: 8/10, way better than vs Pinkie Pie but it's no Deadpool vs Deathstroke.
I don't mind matchups that are stomps, I HATE animations that FEEL like stomps. For the longest time, the DB crew themselves said that Thor vs Raiden was the biggest stomp of the series, but that fight didn't FEEL like thor wasn't trying. It feels like Thor was trying his best to get a proper hit on Raiden, who was trying to wear down Thor, while dodging Mjolnir. It FEELS like a semi fair fight
Hey Nemesis, don’t know if you’ll read this, but I’d love to see you review (IMO) the one 11/10 episode Solid Snake vs Sam Fisher. If you haven’t yet, which to my knowledge you haven’t.
Hey Namesis what didn't you mention Omni-Man or BrightBurn in your Death Battle episode ideas for every franchise that has been on Death Battle or new opponents for every combant on Death Battle for Homelander and what did you choose PG cartoon kids movie character and an PG-13 Will Smith movie instead of an violent superhero show that have the same connection as the boys and an rated-R superhero movie.
Because Tighten is overall a better opponent for Homelander than Omni man or Brightburn. Not to mention both Omni Man and Brightburn have better opponents in the form of Bardock for Omni Man and Eleven and Lucy for Brightburn
Hmm, Joker vs Sweet Tooth, Ben vs Hal, and Flash vs Sonic; these are good episodes, which one is the bad one? Oh right, She-ra vs Wonder Woman, eh, it's okay at best.
@@houldenmelville5530 I was actually referring to Goku vs Superman 1 and Joker vs Sweet Tooth. Ben vs Hal and Flash vs Sonic were way too unclear in their conclusion for characters with some of the most complex powersets on the show. Ben vs Hal is phenomenal if you give it a massive pass there and with the ending, though.
@@thesmashor4396 Your right, nobody who values their life should have to talk about Goku vs Superman. But as for the others, Joker was smarter and more durable than Sweet Tooth without his mech, and his venom was potent enough to take down needles with a heavy enough dose. Especially without his tech, as a person, he's bordering on wall-level. Wally could steal Sonic's speed, and counter almost anything he could throw at him. And when traveling forward in time he could take Sonic down for good after he exerted all of his chaos energy.
To be fair with shredder vs silver samurai they did stay consistent with only using the human incarnations of shredder (spoilers 2003 had ch’rell an alien and his digital copy and a literal demon shredder who are so different they shouldn’t even be compared) and the 2012 was probably the most powerful version of that character (the 2003 versions have the name of the shredder but aside from that they’re completely different characters) and is the most similar in backstory to the 1987 version
One thing i think people don't give Deadpool vs The Mask enough credit for is how they subtlety demonstrated how Toon Force as a concept in VS debates is so broken. One of my biggest gripes with this concept in VS debates is how it's often paired against who might be more grounded in reality. For me that ruins any of the anticipation between both fighters as the one who can literally bend the rules to his own whim is the one who will often win. If anything Toon Force is more exciting when you pit two characters who use it against each other such as Donald Duck and Daffy Duck. Look at how they did it with The Mask: a character who can basically say no to death was put up against a guy who can endlessly regenerate from anything and has similar fourth wall abilities. The only difference is that one guy is so broken he can't die versus someone who can die but is very hard to take down. No other VS show on this whole platform has ever done this aside from maybe Galaxy Video with their Donald Duck vs Daffy Duck episode. For me that easily bumps the fight up to 9/10 for me. It's an underrated episode from this season of DB as a whole.
@@pesciisthebestcharacter5100 The problem is that it's often used as an outlier to make up for a character's physical stats. Also the amount of Toon Force is often depending on the user.
@@e1iteyoshi998 I'm just wondering if Mr Mind would mop the floor with Plankton like he realistically should or if toon force would allow Plankton to win.
For Wolverine vs raiden I’d give it a 9, only complaint is they didn’t really sell me with him being able to cut through Wolverine, other than that’s it’s pretty amazing
Rewatching this video, besides the character you mentioned, I am curious what other niche or obscure characters you'd love to see in a Death Battle that will more than likely never happen. I have quite a few on my own Death Battle list since I tend to get into lesser known shit. Quite a few of my Death Battle ideas involve characters from a super hero game I played as a kid, Freedom Force with some of my favorites being Liberty Lad vs Syndrome (actually pretty damn thematic), Tombstone vs Johnny Ohm from Marvel Imperfects (nearly the same backstory of surviving the electric chair after being falsely accused of a crime) and Alche-Miss vs Gwen Tennyson (they have some good connections but given the scope of their magical capabilities, this could be a cool fight). Funny thing is, I could maybe see a Freedom Force character getting in, I have seen videos of it from popular channels so it would be a surprise but not seeming impossible, the fight I know will NEVER happen given how short lived this comic publisher was, is Chasm from Defiant Comics vs Mr. Negative from Marvel. They are pretty damn similar, even to the point where they acquire their powers through drugs (Chasm was able to perceive the Quantum Realm he enters through drugs, an experimental drug gave Mr. Negative his powers) and I also like the idea of this fight in a meta sense because Marvel UK is the reason Defiant Comics folded in the first place so its like Defiant getting a shot at revenge by killing a Marvel character, but there is no way this Death Battle would ever happen unless I made it myself and with how little comics Defiant produced before dying, not a lot to go off of for Chasm though I'd still consider him planet level for actually fending off attacks from a living planet. Still fun to think about these fights, would love a lot of these to happen but I would be surprised if I found anyone who knew about Freedom Force, Marvel Imperfects or Defiant Comics considering the first had only two games, the second was not a well received game and the third was a short lived publisher I only see brought up when talking about Jim Shooter.
Widow vs Widow bothered me with how expressive Widowmaker was. She is supposed to be a cold-hearted emotionless assassin but she has so many big expressions, a sassy line, and emotional screams that really bring me out of it. For DP vs Mask part of me wanted a scene where Mask kills DP, DP can now marry Death, the Mask is the priest marrying them, DP gets to be with her, the Mask wins, Wiz and Boomstick are free of DP forever now, everyone wins and everyone is happy, then they dance to Cuban Pete for the wedding.
A bit late but the "Let 'er rip!" line from Raiden in Raiden vs Wolverine isn't a reference to Beyblade, it's something Raiden actually says in Metal Gear Rising when he first gains access to Ripper Mode... although, granted they messed the line up slightly as the actual quote is "I think it's time for Jack... to let 'er rip!"
Ignoring my biases I still believe carnage vs Lucy is one of the fucking worst Death battles out there by far, even worse than in my opinion Doom guy vs chief (which is saying something cause I really fucking hate that fight) the fact they literally ignored the fucking fact the nuke carnage absorbed what was a “Flash fry” nuke just to say it was made to kill Mutants actually fucking irked me
It's so weird that I completely understand your logic on Carnage vs. Lucy but also disagree with it so vehemently 😄 It's okay though, we all have different opinions and perspectives, and that's fine. All I'll say is: as a Spider-Man fan I never once thought Carnage was shat on through that whole episode. I think there's more to showing badassery than just landing hits (for example, *taking* hits, which Carnage did *a lot* of whereas Lucy couldn't even get so much as a scratch without bleeding) and I was sufficiently impressed with him in that fight. I'm one of those who adores that episode and it's definitely in my Top 10 😅 But anyway, good vid Nemesis! Can't wait for the next one!
i can actually understand why you disliked the lucy vs carnage fight but i feel the issue wasnt that it was one sided but that it wasnt over the top one sided as it should have been. lucy's vectors out speed carnage to a ridiculous degree so the fight should have just been lucy crushing him effortlessly until carnage went for the massive amount of tentacles bum rush where she just island punches him to finish the fight, yes its still uneventful but you would have a chance for carnage to showcase all his abilities while showing why it just didnt matter makign it if noting else a bit more fun to watch. as always though you have a very different perspective then me due to you mostly looking at the animation basically alone in your rating which i can agree with the fight isnt really exciting and it missed its opportunity to just embrace the epic stomp for what it was.
But the problem is that the whole fight should be entertaining, death Battles almost never really makes stomp fights apparent in the animation. So why suddenly do so for the sake of accuracy? It’s not only questionable on there part, but also makes the fight really freaking boring. Like Dr Strange vs Dr Fate was a massive stomp for Fate yet they made it seem like Strange had a chance and damaged Fate despite him not being able too compared to their research.
@@Rippen_Crippen except it wasnt as entertaining as it could have been, and allowed for some idiots to claim that her getting hurt at all proved that carnage should ahve won.(the idiots never seem to remember that the fight is only for entertainment.)
The problem is that Dark Carnage don't exist during that time, and the result would just be Carnage turning into Dark Carnage and his sheer presence killing Lucy.
I dont agree with your Lucy vs carnage argument. I found it a bit weird that you always criticize DB for not keeping the combatants perfectly in character but you criticize Lucy for fighting the way she always fights
@@geardestroy I want arguing against that, I just found it weird how nemesis always makes it a big point that he wants each character to be 100% accurate, but not for Lucy.
@@HB-fq9nn yeah that's where I have the problem. Nemesis is always criticizing DB for not making them 100% in character, and DB did it for Lucy and he's still complaining. It seems inconsistent and makes it seem like he just likes nitpicking
Was the brief moment in the Ultron vs Sigma review part where Infection perfection is played louder than your microphone intentional because of how good the song is?
Nemesis, I love your editing, however it is so freaking hard to hear you over the track of Ultron versus sigma, if you ever use it again for a background track while speaking, I recommend severely toning it down
Captain Marvel vs Android 18 really breaks me. On one hand their is the whole Android 18 absorbing thing being not Canon. But you also just watched 2019 capting marvel and you wanna see her take a beating.
@Garry Snail like not in the sense of body multiverse or something but she gets kidnapped on an alien spaceship,frees herself and just destroys the entire thing effortlessly.How am I supposed to worry about her when she can do that.She also almost took the infinity gauntlet of thanos herself if it wasn't for his quick thinking of using the power stone.
The way Lucy is is animated with he just standing still makes me very worried of if they use V from dmc 5 although it’s unlikely they will ever use him
Eh, I think the music is a little too loud in the beginning of the Ultron vs Sigma segment, makes your voice kinda hard to hear. Or maybe that's just me. Also ah yeah Raiden vs Wolverine kinda pogchamp.
I was hype as shit seeing the reveal for Xehanort vs Sidious, a battle i've wanted for YEARS, then realized it had the DBX logo plastered over it. F**k.
2012 shredder has some weaknesses One is when he begins to loose,he looses hard if the foe is equal or higher skill The other is his daughter and his love for her
Although i don’t think raiden beats wolverine its still probably my favorite death battle of all time Btw carnage wins against lucy he dosent need possession they didn’t even use his most impressive feats at the time
We need to get more of these, Marvel and D.C. not up against each other. I know how popular those episodes are but that topic has just become oversaturated at this point.
The problem is that those fights get boring too. Most of the time it's very rare when you see a non Marvel or DC character actually win. Look at the disaster that was Ben 10 vs Green Lantern.
@@e1iteyoshi998 I don't believe Ben 10 vs. Green Lantern was a disaster by any stretch of the imagination but that's neither here nor there. But it isn't so much the winner that matters all that much to me (for the most part), it's how interesting the matchup would be. My personal favorite example as a matchup that I believe would be an incredibly interesting pairing is Goku Black vs. Cyborg Superman.
@@Zitsanrael1117 I agree with this and ironically the example I have in mind also involves Goku Black though I like the idea of him fighting Gorr the God Butcher from Marvel since to me, Gorr seems like his opposite where Goku Black is a god who despises mortals and steals power from a mortal in his quest to kill all mortals, Gorr is a mortal who despises gods and steals the power from a god in his quest to kill all gods. In all the matchups I have imagined, this seems like the one where the two characters would ABSOLUTELY try killing each other if they met. If they existed in the same universe, there is no way they don't come into conflict.
@@MysteriousTomJenkins That sounds sick too. The point of this is that there is a lot of potential for these characters outside of this "Marvel/D.C. bubble". Hell, let's get Mr. Fantastic vs. Luffy or Volcana vs. Azula while we're at it.
Season 9 and 8 gave us some banger non dc and marvel episodes we got stuff like reverse flash vs Goku blacl iron fist vs po tetsuo vs magneto Thor vs Vegeta wich while not being amazing is still good in its own right and a few others I can't remember
No, Deadpool vs Big Head (calling him the Mask in the title is stupid because that's the title of the comic not the alternate identity of the character, it's like if you had Batman vs Captain America but it was titled The Dark Knight vs Captain America) is my pick for the worst DB ever. I get that it is a joke battle but the joke is in poor taste, this is a stomp against Deadpool but him knowing that they are lowballing his stats is meant to be a jab at the people who point out that their data is wrong. And later Deadpool uses his reality warping powers to show Big Head a bunch of DBs that people have taken issue with, this is basically DB saying we know about your complaints and we don't care. Deadpool is meant to be a hypocritical strawman of DB critics.
My personal opinions on these episodes are as follows: Thor vs Raiden: I don't remember this one very well. Wolverine vs Raiden: Awesome! This episode's actually one of my favorites. Android 18 vs Captain Marvel: Fine. Shredder vs Silver Samurai: Great. The death especially sticks out to me. Carnage vs Lucy: Aside from the track and Carnage's, "It's raining, you're bleeding. Carnage is starving." line, I don't really like this episode, and after hearing you point out just how little effort Lucy put in during the animation, I hate it even more. Black Widow vs Widowmaker: Fine. Deadpool vs The Mask aka Bighead: Also fine.
I’m not knocking it bc I like Infection Perfection but when you were talking about Ultron vs Sigma, You made the music loud enough that I can barely hear what you are saying.