It’s time to finish what we started, join me as we take a look at the final batch of stages in smash ultimate. My twitter: / rekzius I have a discord server too: / discord
Back then in brawl banned stages are just like "Meta Knight can do this cheese" "Meta Knight can do that cheese" "Meta Knight literally can't lose on this stage"
@@pulim-v The entire meta back then literally revolved around Meta Knight. Who's top tier? - Well, what characters can counter Meta Knight? What are the best stages? - What stages best limit Meta Knight's camping abilities while not restricting other characters as well? Who are the best players? - What players know the Meta Knight matchup the best? Etc.
@@pulim-v Rainbow Cruise is a stage that makes Meta Knight camping especially easy with really nothing a majority of other characters can do about it except wait for the Meta Knight player.
Snipers and rollers ran the towers. So many unforeseen deaths outa nowhere! Simple Squelcher man just tryna gun and run but end up getting towers on the rotation and being mowed down or shot from across a literal city block
I do genuinely wonder why they banned Great Cave Offensive, was it the lava, the size, the minecarts, the walls, the spikes, the cannons, or the lack of side blast zones?
@@BulletBillSoilder I believe they said back when they announced DLC for Smash Ultimate in the Direct they said it'd be through like 2021 or 2022. It seems like a lot of people forgot about that.
Mementos: it's too wide Hero's stage: there are walls at the beginning. Jigsaw Mountain: The opposite problem to Mementos. It's too narrow. Terry's stage: KILL ME, NOW!
@@Jason_Ultimate You forget at the end of the Terry direct they announced more DLC fighters will be released past Fighter 5. Fighter Pass #1 was only going to be through 2019-2020. They set no dates for the next one, and why I say ten is: dataminers have found out (disregarding the 11th fighter #5 slot) the roster can handle 10 more slots before it crashes. Thus, 10 more fighters, two more passes. Content up until 2023 honestly.
@@BulletBillSoilder I meant that since Fighters Pass 1 went by so quick I figured more packs would be released. But the people who were surprised by that happening seemed to forget about that.
Should be hazard and transformation switches; so you can disable hazards but keeping the stage moving, or disabling hazards and disable the stage moving. (Keeping hazards but disabling the stage from moving could exist if that wouldn't cause too much issue). Plus make it a toggle like for omega and -mu- battlefield toggle.
@@stormwyvern6981 that would solve some of the problem but I wish the stage list was a bit more inclusive since the amount of stages we have in this game is exponentially larger than any other smash game
I'd actually say that having wily castle could make a HUGE difference. As an example, little mac would always want to play FD to avoid any platforms, and having the walls going down to the bottom will allow him to significantly boost his recovery since he has the best wall jump in the entire game!
Arena Ferox could have decent reason to be a counterpick if Stage Hazards had a more easy toggle. Pokemon Stadium was jank, but at least it was never jank for very long at a time. The same applies to Hazards Arena Ferox. But because of the RNG, hazardless Arena Ferox could leave you with a janky stage for a whole match.
@@Robbie_Haruna No, just no. The only reason stadium is legal in melee is because there are very limited options to pick from. We shouldn't need to keep stages that "can be janky sometimes for a little bit" when there're plenty of other alternatives that just don't.
One big thing you're not keeping in mind for some of the statements is circle camping. Like Mushroom Kingdom U, it's large enough and the platforms are high enough where major stalling and circle camping could take place.
fun fact about mario galaxy. It doesn't effect anything! Not even projectiles! You see you aren't actually fighting on a curved surface you're fighting on a flat surface with a fisheye effect bellow the screen. But the blast zone is actually warped. You can get hit to to the top and die from falling straight down. But your characters, though their hit boxes are unaffected, are adjusted so they don’t appear weird with tiny heads and big feet by being flattened slightly and tilted towards the camera. The result is, you are fighting on a flat stage, but your characters appearance is less accurate to the hit and hurt boxes, the higher or lower on the model. Especially with particularly tall characters, attacks that are lower look more forgiving than they are.
Wuhu Island & Umbra Clock Tower are actually really fun when dealing with characters that generate items (Link, DDD, K. Rool, Peach/Daisy e.t.c) because they have slants for crazy stuff. The clock for Bayo's stage actually does have some VERY slight slants on the middle. You won't notice it normally, but it's always fun when your Gordo just "randomly" starts bouncing the opposite direction. Also, despite Wuhu being a semi-solid stage, the detection for ledge grabbing is very generous. Dunno how many times I've just kinda teleported to the ledge from the middle of the slant. My only issue is that edge guarding can be difficult.
So you're telling me that you think that Unova League, a stage with ACTUAL PROBLEMS like the teleport recoveries just not working as intended and the wonky camera, is not redundant with PS1/2 because it's "different enough", meanwhile Dreamland and Yoshi's from Melee is banned for being "too similar to battlefield", when they have blastzone differences and are not broken. Cool. Not to mention that perfectly functional stages are "bad" because they have slopes or allow sharking which barely affects the game now that MK isn't broken. Still don't understand why we can't just ONCE try out more stages and give more bans to each player to make up for it. Some of the stages you think should be banned are stages that people consistently said "if only we could turn hazards off then the stage would be good!" and now that we can, we're being too restrictive with the ruleset and barely taking advantage of it.
I wish we had more stage variety skyloft is a super fun stage and i feel like being able to recover through the stage adds more than it takes away, I also love King of fighters but i get why that's banned
best comment on this vid. stages like Yoshi's story, have walls and completely different blast zones, and yoshis island brawl has only slight slants that don't affect the fairness of competitive gameplay.
Exactly. A lot of these stages are fine, but people lose it when anything unique is tried out. Lylat is fine. Yoshi's Story is fine. Hallberd could be an interesting map.
Because the blast zones and layout of Unova are actually different compared to Pokemon Stadium. Not a very large difference, but not marginal either. And by the way, the teleport problem is super easy to avoid, just don't recover directly below the stage, not something difficult to do at all. (Fun fact, it's Palutena's best stage) Also the stage doesn't have camera problems at all Fountain of Dreams and Dream Land are pretty much identical to Battlefield in every way, and the few differences they are makes them worse (Such as getting pineappled on Dream Land) Sharking and slants DO affect the game. Slants, for instance, can make many moves whiff, jablocks don't work well on them, projectiles can behave inconsistently etc. As for sharking, it completely changes the recovery process for most characters, and in a bad way Saying those things don't affect the game is a big fat lie As for trying stages, well, we did it in every game, especially in Melee the initial stage list was extremely large and stages started getting banned while the metagame progressed and these stages started to become problematic or irrelevant. With time we understood which kinds of stages do work and which don't
I have a question... are omega versions of stages or batlefield versions of stages banned? because if not, you could have pretty much any music you want, unlike in smash 4 where omega stages had some different properties (which i really like and i miss here)
Soup The exception to this is Byleth’s omega stage. The blast zones are slightly different (it is literally so minor), but it’s sometimes banned due to that inconsistency
The reason for adding ladder attacks is probably so you are no longer helpless when climbing a ladder. Sure, there aren't many stages were you can do that, but hey. We are being looked after.
Y'all could treat stage changes identical to a character switch and other than that run identical to every other FG ever. So... no stage striking at all. Winner can't switch characters. Loser can switch characters or stages, not both. Your character being bad on specific stages on specific matchups can be... you know... part of the meta? If you win round 1 and they switch to a stage that your character is bad on, guess what, now they're locked in to their character so you can counterpick them. This is no different than how people counterpick with characters in every FG ever. And yes, more stages. With this ruleset and mindset you don't have to worry about stages being too similar and you can make sooooo many more stages legal. There's nothing wrong with small stages. Some characters like them. Some don't. That should be part of the meta. There's nothing wrong with uneven terrain. Some characters like uneven terrain. Some don't. That should be part of the meta. There's nothing wrong with sharking. Heck, there's nothing wrong with walk offs so long as it isn't permanent (seriously miss D-Plaza, was so fun to play and watch). Y'all are playing with SIX stages out of 109. That's really really lame. This kind of ruleset and mindset would mean that, unless you win twice in a row, you WILL be able to play on your favorite stage for your favorite character in every set. It means that you WILL have to play rounds on stages your character is known to be bad at. It also makes players a lot more likely to stay loyal to a character on a given set as they're more likely to try a different stage for round two instead of a whole new character. IMO this all would be fantastic for a competitive environment.
My biggest gripe with the little stage variety is that maps tend to get old quick. It gets solved thanks to the omega versions of the maps being the same as FD, but even then many setups come locked with only the legal stages of the tournament and I've gotten bad looks from people when suggesting to play in an omega form of a different map. Why ya'll hate the stage variety? I wanna play in the psychodelia that is Mementos, damnit, FD Mementos should be fine, right?
For everyone who complains about "oh this is too different and this is too similar" well if your strategy is obnoxious (such as stalling and circle camping) and no one is having fun, but you win, it's alright as long as it's tournament legal, and for that reason, they ban stages such as GCO and 75m. The "too similar" part is because of when you want to ban something. If there are 3 different versions of Battlefield and you don't want to play on it, your ban will not matter and you will have to play on it. Also Hero is ok dude. Edited for better grammar and to make it coherent
Skyloft and Mushroom Kingdom U is banned because of the size as it's easy to get to long stocks and stall to much time, leading to unwanted time-outs. They are legal in doubles, at least here in Spain.
Also duck hunt is banned because it turns characters flat and it messes with Z axis. All stages that turns you flat make some moves as Ganon UpSmash function differently, so you shouldn't even take them in omega or battlefield versions, unless you want to abuse some n00b with hit boxes normally wouldn't hit.
Skyworld has the same mechanic as Magicant when the platforms are broken, if you get spiked you go right through them. It's not something recent either, it's been like that since brawl.
Some attacks that usually two-frames just can’t two-frames on Pictochat, maybe that’s why it’s not a legal stage. Unless it’s just me being unable to two-frames anyone on Pictochat, and only on that stage for some reasons...
@@temporalCaster actually it just alters hitboxes. For some reason the hitboxes have a 3D element to them, it’s why DK’s Giant Punch whiffs so often for example, it’s hitting to the side of the opponent rather than dead on. The 2D stages flatten these hitboxes, meaning they stay in the plane the fighters are in for longer
I know that this is a super late reply, but this always annoys me. That is an intented mechanic to do with the way teleport recoveries work. It's not really jank, and it's easy to play around
We actually tried Skyloft in the Netherlands, and I really liked it! It's just that the majority of people didn't like it so much that they gave in to their whining.
Some of these stages prove a update that could help legalize more stages, for any side scrolling stage or transformation stage it would be nice to make it so it doesn’t change and you can pick which section you would like, would allow for some stages like 3D land to be legal, also stages with random layouts could allow you to pick the layout and add more options
Yeah, you can make Ridley's throat explode if you smack him in the face while he's charging his neutral special. *It's almost like Glavenus from Monster Hunter...*
Arena Ferox and Tomodachi Life were actually legal in Smash 4 (on the 3DS)... Prism Tower was as well, but it’s also still legal in some places for Ultimate I believe.
Rekzius "...There are only like two stages that actually have [ladders]..." (Referring to Wrecking Crew and 75M.) Palutena's Temple: Am I a joke to you?
5:28 it is the only stage with stage hazards off (to my own knowledge) but on Skyworld once you destroy the platforms, there are clouds which have this property. There is also the cloud on Summit, and the clouds on Super happy tree, but I’m pretty sure the latter doesn’t do that. (The property of spiking through the stage, for those too lazy to rewind.)
Unova has the unfortunate issue where telopor recoveries just don't work on one of the ledges sometimes which is the main reason it got banned in most regions if I understand correctly
One thing I'm sad you didn't mention with Unova is that it screws teleport characters. They can't recover low because the stage geometry is poorly designed and their teleports slide across and away from the stage, causing an SD. It's a counterplay pick opportunity but in a really lame way, in my opinion.
One time i was playing the mario maker stage and the random generation was just Final Destination, but the entire middle of the stage was lava. It was fun.
Now that they announced that they're no longer making DLC and thus no longer making stages, I'd be curious to revisit the new stages based on these criteria. Like, KoF has "walls" but not really
OK, so fun fact about Midgar. I was playing doubles with my dad, me playing as Byleth, and I tried to jump onto the platforms to use faiflnaught along the top, while dad covered the bottom. I did a jump, then pressed b, then shot my dad in the back. I was confused and thought I short hopped. I try it again, same result. After the game, I go to battlefield, and do the same thing (jump, then use failnaught). I landed on the platform. Apparently, Midgar's platforms are slightly higher than battlefield's platforms. Also, what stages are tame enough to at least consider testing with hazards on? No one seems to be talking about it, and I think more people should embrace a little chaos. Could you do a video on that?
Living Room with hazards off actually does change something. With hazards on, the raining down blocks appear multiple times, which changes the layout constantly throughout the match. With hazards off, it only rains down the blocks once and stays like that for the rest of the game.
Here's a reference for ideas on what would be some interesting stages (if mods were a thing for competitive): Subspace Emissary's False Character stages in The Great Maze.
From what I know, Unova is banned because some characters, specifically those with teleports, are known to accidentally SD due to how the bottom of the stage is shapped. The teleport, that normally hugs the wall if angled towards it, actually can occasionally launch the player further from stage instead of towards ledge, leading into an unfair SD.
The thing I dont get about banning the stage because of this, is that for most characters this isnt even a problem. Plus, you can play around it if you dont hug the wall. And If you really dont like it you can always just ban it, that's how counter-picking works
@@omarabdulkarim8236 First of all, I love your pfp! Second, it's not necessarily the fact that you can ban it. With all the tournaments I've been to, most people didn't mind it. The issue is that when you do play, you don't always get to control where you fly off of stage. I've had situations where I'd get stage spiked, only to tech underneath the stage, but since I've already used a second jump I'd have no other option than to gamble with the stage and pray it didn't launch me away while teleporting. It's not whether or not you can ban it, it's more of the fact that if it happens, and both you and your opponent cringe and go "ooooo", you know you have an unfair issue with a stage. Yes banning it is an option, but it shouldn't be a ban you always go to just because of a glitch. Especially if it's something that potentially forces you out of a character. Most players are one trick ponies with their mains after all.
@@Sgt_Viper000 Thanks! I like yours too Super Paper Mario is a really good game. I agree with this sentiment and I understand why youd want to ban the stage permanently, but the thing is, how come in ultimate you ban stuff like that (which can be avoided some of the time and only affects a handful of characters) but in a game like Melee Pokemon stadium is perfectly ok (and I realise melee had a much smaller stage list). I feel like banning a stage for something which rarely comes up (this is coming from someone who plays quite a lot of Palu and Zelda) is silly when keeping it adds variety and another stage to the very small list
@@omarabdulkarim8236 I think that may be the exact reason why it's like that for Melee. (Though Smash 64's only legal map is Dreamland.) As for Ultimate, I think it goes back to the whole ome trick poney thing. Where some players don't want to have to switch to someone else, just because someone wants to choose that stage, or worse having to use up a ban on a stage that they can do fine on, but just don't want to risk a death due to a glitch. It also makes edge guards easier too since all you have to do is trap the opponent under that location.
The weirdest thing about the Spirit Tracks stage is the fact that a smalm boy in a (admittedly sacred) train goes almost twice as fast as HYPERSONIC RACE VEHICLES.
@@DJ-0 ah yes, it's the stages fault for not being completely flat and following this specific list of qualities that essentially makes every stage so similar that in gameplay the minor differences there are don't come into play more than once or twice, and not mine for not being able to take into account a slant or being able to recover from under it
Streetpass™ Quest is the best stage just for its name. It's the only stage with a trademark/copyright symbol, right? Also, only appears when you set the console region to Europe/Australia and language to English.
All i got out of this video is that walkoffs are not your friend for sure. eheheh... yeah, screw those... heh... (promptly tapes my own mouth) Oh and i love PMD soundtrack in this video, made my day.
Umbra clock tower also has visual problems. The background isn't the problem tho, it's the clock itself. Snake's c4 and grenades blend right into the stage so you can't see where they are and neither can he unless the c4 flashes. You run the risk as snake of blowing yourself up and other players will probably blow themselves up during combos because of s grenade they literally can't see.
blast zone size is a huge factor i feel like wasn't talked about enough. mushroom kingdom u and wuhu island have ridiculously tall ceilings, to the point where it's nearly impossible to kill off the top at reasonable percents. meanwhile, tomodachi life and (to a lesser extent) skyloft have super cramped blast zones that make the game way more volatile. i consider it more of a consideration than slants (i have more issues with yoshi's island's blast zones than the slants tbh)
I am watching this right after a similar video on melee stages and i have to say the difference in philosophy is crazy. Ultimate: "this stage is good but we have so many that the tiny details make it pointless to add" Melee: "unban poke floats, I dare you"
If you play Living Room with hazards off, the blocks and stuff fall. But the difference is that they NEVER disappear. I accidentally found that out when playing with friends
I’m kind of curious if you plan on revisiting this series now that all of the DLC stages are out and the tournament legal stage list has changed as a result
Unova is often banned due to teleports though, the slant underneath makes them fly sideways which makes it less often than even some jankier stages like lylat
