Everyone Gets This Tactic Wrong | Star Wars Battle Breakdown 

Thrawn attacks were extremely planned out for every single battle or skirmishes, and no doubt that he used misinformation to even confuse us the readers and fans to effectively get us to have discussions.

I see where you're coming from, however I do think that there are two other factors that helped Thrawn figure out the commander was an Elomin. 1. As others have mentioned, Thrawn probably already knew who was commanding all task forces in the region due to imp intelligence. 2. In one of the more recent Thrawn books (I think it was the one released in 2017) as well as in the Rebel's show Thrawn says this quote: "To defeat an enemy you must know them. Not simply their battle tactics, but their history, philosophy, art..." - Grand Admiral Thrawn This implies that he studies history and philosophy of all his enemies. He may have saw this when learning about Elomin philosophy or maybe someone in the past had exploited the same cultural blindspot Thrawn used

Thrawn says "You see, Captain, there's an Elom Commanding that force...' Captain Palleon says "You were able to tell from that (the sentry ship attack) that those were Elomin ships?' "Learn about art, Captain," Thran said, his voice almost dreamy. "When you understand a species' art, you understand the species." Direct from the book."

Prior to the raid Thrawn would have had intelligence on what NR task forces were in the area, With that knowledge it would be simple to determine who was in charge of the task force

Sentries were likely unmanned but I also believe they MUST have been more durable than TIEs. They had to require multiple hits for him to get a read of the Commander.

Thrawn knew who was in command of the New Republic task force through Delta Source. In hindsight, with the additional information provided in the rest of the Trilogy, the opening battle becomes an example of Thrawn's obsession with pulling the wool over the eyes of everyone and ensuring that he would be irreplaceable in the Empire, and the timing of the Obroa-skai raid was very likely intentional on his part since he, through Delta Source, would have known about the New Republic diplomatic mission to the then-neutral Obroa-skai well ahead of time.

I always read the Marg Sabl as being the fighter deployment and approach and nothing to do with the star destroyer being turned on its side. That part to me read as being a way to mask the deployment until it is seen by the enemy. I also never read Ahsoka's moving the Venator on its side as being in any way related. As stated in the episode, she did that to draw fire to the Venator's most armored surface, taking the fire from the Separatist ships while the Republic ships do the damage.

I believe he knew it several different ways. He definitely knew an Elomin was in charge of some nearby taskforces their tactics and art was just the last piece of confirmation.

I've often wondered how the destruction of two scout ships would allow Thrawn to determine an Elomin was in control but I do have two theories (and why they would respond poorly to a Marg Sable) Firstly what would be the most logical way to dispatch of the scouts? My take is that you don't bother unless they stray close enough to be in gunnery range from the frigates. The scouts are implied to be fully unnamred, unshielded, and disposable. Since both task forces can easily see each other destroying the scouts does not help you hide and is a distraction from the main objective which is closing with the Chimera and entering weapons range. A middle ground approach would be to send a single flight of fighters to each when convenient before returning them to the fighter screen. Now the theories. 1. The commander directed overwhelming firepower towards the scout ships possibly dispatching an entire fighter squadron to each. This level of hyper aggressiveness could be emblematic of a particularly concerned culture with a long history of outside conquest trying to defend with as much force as possible. This behavior might translate into overly aggressive fighter tactics drawing them too far away from the assault frigates and keeping them too tightly packed when the TIEs began arriving from every angle. As a result the fighters would be out of position to defend the frigates which could then be overwhelmed by the numerically superior TIE fighters. 2. The commander broke formation and directly engaged the scouts with the frigates rather than the fighters. This could imply an implicit lack of faith in starfighters and an overreliance on the heavy assets. In such a scenario the commander may be too slow to reconfigure the fighter screen to meet the TIEs and become overwhelmed at close range when the Marg Sable is performed. Just my theories anyway.

Thrawn likely just had spies that told him who was in command of the taskforce and he used the art nonsense to make himself seem more brilliant to his underlings

This battle did teach pelleaon something he used 10 years later when attacked by bandits disguised as the New Republic. Proving Pelleaon a more apt successor to Thrawn in some ways than the 3 idiots faking his return

As far as "Only an elomin" the commanding officer matter a lot since violating his orders in combat isn't really allowed. Also didn't Thrawn only gague the commander's limitations by the art rather than to figure out they were Elomin. It's sorta implied the art helped with both but IIRC only stated it was how he knew the Marg Sabrl would work.

It's always important to treat Star Wars as something with a steadily-deteriorating rate of understanding. For example, the Excutor exists, the book says it's five times larger, everything pegs it at five miles long. The shields collapse on the bridge, A-wings blow up the sensor dome, an officer shouts that they've lost the deflector shield, now the sensor dome is the shield generator, now any time you blow up the globes you knock out the shields. Jabba is a crime lord called a Hutt (like a Don), Jabba's revealed to be a giant slug creature, now giant slug creatures are Hutts. TIE Fighters are short-range fighters that have giant physical shields protecting their flanks, thus they don't need shield generators, "TIEs don't have shields or hyperdrives", thus the entire Imperial navy is made up of unshielded, system-locked fighters. And here, you've pointed out the Marg Sabl error (which, to TCW's credit, is never called as such).

Funnily enough, (like me), a lot of ppl in universe didn't like Thrawn's ability of reading a species either, which is why he was hated both in the empire and out of it. Glad, however, to see it expanded in the new canon thrawn trilogy (Thrawn, Alliance and Treason). I think Zahn overall does a great job with his Thrawn and his narratives as a whole.

I never thought about this that deeply. I always just wrote it off as a made up term for a specific maneuver. But the points you made, especially Pelleaon's comment, make a lot of sense.

You answered your own question. Captain Palleon says "You were able to tell from that (the sentry ship attack) that those were Elomin ships?' "Learn about art, Captain," Thran said, his voice almost dreamy. "When you understand a species' art, you understand the species." Direct from the book.

In the x-wing card and mini game the maneuver can be performed through any obstruction, including asteroids, so what you say checks.

yularen turns the resolute on her belly where thrawn turns the chimera on her back, i think pelleon could be complimenting using the top of the ship instead of the bottom, which seems reasonable given that the venator was much more fragile than an isd

Stupendous video. I have thought about this same misinterpretation of the Marg Sable. So excited for what else you'll bring with the new formats.

A nations culture and philosophy does play into how an officer from said nation might act, as things like officer corps would teach distinct tactics and philosophies and the culture would value different things in warfare. Therefore it's not unreasonable that you could figure out who you're fighting based on how they fight.

the animation was tight... good vid brother

Great video Corey

Why not combine intadicter class with stardestroyet gravity well generators would be better protected

I literally just bought the trilogy hardbacks because I loved the audio books so much

It’s called psychological profiling. Or essentially, boiling people down to a formula. Thrawn knew about several NR patrols and used the reaction to the sentries to determine the species. Art tells you what is important to a civilization and what mathematical theory they have developed. For example, how would you fight a war in medieval Europe? Simple, really. Undermine their religion. The most accomplished artworks of Europe are religious in nature. They also have complex shapes and shading showing a great amount of detail of the human body, exotic dress with many colors and angles, battles with walls and catapults, showing mathematical advantage. If I were to use Thrawn’s methods. The way I would wage war in Medieval Europe is to introduce heresy, to get the powerful institutions like the kings and churches distracted and wasting resources trying to quash the heresy, then attack areas that are away from the heresy. Then the churches have to make a choice, quash the heresy or fight the war. Quashing the heresy wastes valuable resources including money and manpower with the executions, and fighting the war means letting the heresy spread.

I've never liked Thrawn's use of art to inform him a cultures tactics as it implies that each individual is entirely influenced by where they come from rather than their actual experience, could you imagine judging how General Westmorland (Vietnam U.S commander 64-68) would act based on viewing an Andy Warhol piece?. His plans are usually much better than the overly situational tactics that most popular science fiction uses though.

Great video Corey!

also Interesting how they show in Thrawn Alliances they cover how Thrawn learns about this maneuver directly from Padme and Anakin and is told how Ahsoka invented it… and he is ready to counter her in the show…

As much as I love Thrawn, the whole thing with being able to use art to formulate unbeatable tactics is such BS. Based on nothing but how the enemy commander reacted to a skirmish with a few sentries he can figure out what species the entire task force is manned by and then determine based on that species' art that they wouldn't know how to react to a fairly simple stratagem. I like the idea some people have put forward that Thrawn really just has a combination of an extensive spy network and good intuition and uses the art analysis story to build his mystique and awe his subordinates.

Genius minds are not to be underestimated.

If it works particularly well against the Elom because they can't handle unstructured maneuvers, I think it makes sense that it would work similarly well against droids.

Excellent analysis my young friend

You know in some ways I prefer the Rebels iteration of Thrawn, it makes his insights seem a bit less like a super power and more like actual deductions from both experience and understanding his enemies' psychology and culture.

I personally didn't like the Clone Wars' execution of the maneuver because they moved the superstructure away from the incoming attackers, which meant the main battery of the warship could not engage the droid forces. I see from your clip of the Thrawn's use of the Marg Sabl, that you demonstrate that all 8 main batteries of the Star Destroyer could be employed against the approaching enemy the way Thrawn executed the maneuver, and I applaud attention to detail on this point. I feel that this point is sometimes missed by the casual observer.

In canon Ashoka technically invented this maneuver lol

*mind blown*

...Not gonna lie, as much as Ahsoka Tano inventing this is nice and all, it sure doesn't fit Legends as a whole. Also, would doubt this tactic would be used again in the Alt-universe. Same for Legends, unless in emergencies.

I loved the Thrawn trilogy, but I really have to suspend a LOT of disbelief when it comes to the art giving him insight into how to defeat a species. That requires a strong belief in a prejudice that an entire species is a monolith with no individuality. It implies that the stereotypes establishef by artistic tradition reflects on the species as a whole, not just one artist or a particular movement. This borders in bigotry. It's like saying that I can defeat a Mexican general because I got my masters in culinary studies with a thesis on Mexican cuisine.

I think that the real reason Thrawn used the Marg Sabl Maneuver was to bring The Chimaera’s Full main battery into play against the four ships

is this canon?

Hard to take any criticism from someone who obviously didn't read the book because you don't even have the ships in the engagement correct. I just listened to the chapter and looked up the battle afterwards and found this video.

Dude your video was awful Orinda is a person not a place please read the books before acting like you know what happened.