Everything You Need To Know About Rivals 2 

Now or never boiz! Let's get it to 10 characters on launch!

@@JediJess1Man i wished it had at least like 12 chars or more on launch, id happily even trade the single-player for it. 😭 But oh well im still going to support the game regardless by going for that really sweet 30$ Kickstarter Tier. 👌

Okay, that's not so bad then. Literally wasn't going to buy the game for that reason alone. Well, that and the inclusion of ledgehogging.

What's wrong with ledgehogging? It adds way more depth offstage and if it wasn't in the game the off stage game would be very boring like how it is in smash 4/ult. @@xRagingxDemonx

What if Zettaburn angled his Up special Horizontal or diagonally down?

@@p0kepanda462Edgehogging absolutely _ruins_ characters that are unable to make it back to the stage itself, and takes literally zero skill to do. With trumping (or simply no edgehogging), you have to earn the marginal KOs by denying the ledge, rather than turning them into a foregone conclusion.

What about after the second downward part of Ranno’s up special?

I think this is valid and not “petty”. Although, I think how the camera worked in RoA was fine and the preferable option for that game. Since I fear the alternative for a pixel art platform fighter is how it works in Super Smash Flash or Fraymakers. Personally, I don’t like the dynamic smooth moving camera in pixel art platform fighters such as those, as it makes the pixel art look super rough to me and somewhat nauseating. But that type of camera works perfectly for 3d platform fighters. So I feel RoA chose the right camera for it’s art style imho. And the new camera is exciting and better than RoA’s. So there’s reason for hype. ;)

i’m thinking the same thing

Really happy to see they're smash players interested in the second, rivals of aether is my favourite game but I'm also still gonna play smash even when rivals 2 comes out

​@@cosmic5665Honestly dude smash isn't even worth it anymore because no matter what anyone says you're not telling that game is balanced because there are like 15 to 20 characters in that game that are unviable or borderline and I am sick of the terrible online

I am happy to hear you guys are giving rivals a shot I love the game and I hope you do too

​@@cosmic5665I honestly hope there is a smash killer soon

well, the pixel art opened up modding much more accesibly, since original 3d art is much more time consuming, especially for ppl doing free work as a hobby. however i could see this having an inverse effect that garners more more ppl learning or harnessing their 3d animating skills down the road, but it still is bound to stagger modded content to a fraction of rivals 1.

@@AmRosary05 I see both happening. RoA1's workshop scene will continue to thrive, and the devs fully intend to add workshop support down the line.

@@AmRosary05 1s workshop will stay alive for a while, but people make impressive mods for 3d games all the time. no doubt that the devs will eventually support mod creators to live up to the og's name

Pixel art leads to a lot less jank and a lot fewer glitches. 3D is notorious for collision problems in just about every game, and though I'm sure Aether Studios will do its best to iron that stuff out during the game's lifespan, there's probably always going to be "What the hell?" moments as players engage with the game. That, and my personal preference has always been for 2D animation over 3D in general, but that's a much less objective take, and I'm aware it's not very widely shared. Still, I've put $50 toward this game's Kickstarter regardless of gripes (also not a fan of the addition of ledges since the lack of them and the robust wall-jump gameplay was part of what set Rivals 1 apart from Smash) because I have full confidence that the team will deliver an incredible game. Mild gripes can't kill the hype for what's looking to be a fantastic experience.

Pfp (Profile picture) and / or Banner Sauce (Source [Artist])? 🗿

Yeah, good point. I agree and hope that’s how it’ll go.

Feel this entirely

Nah Rivals 2 is going to add even more depth to the series and Rivals 1 will get a bit older cuz no shielding so your approach options against zoning and zoners or projectiles in general will be even more limited. Then when 2 adds Workshop its going to steal even more from the Casual playerbase of 1 or heck, even the competitive one lol. Not saying 1 still wont be great, im just saying i will find little to no reason for playing it once 2 is out other than nostalgia and Workshop.

@@SimoneBellomonte eh, i don't know about that. anyone can draw a sprite and some hitcircles, but a 3D workshop adds a layer of complexity that's going to lock out most people. i have a lot of faith in OP's argument

When you consider that they only didn't include shields in the original due to techinical limitations, how much money the kickstarter has generated, and how much they've been letting top smash/rival/platform fighters play this pre-alpha to get their feedback and improve the game, I find it hard to believe that "too many people" aren't going to play it. I feel like this is the only platform fighter outside Smash that has a chance to be the next big thing, at least as far as a competitive scene, with the bonus of not being tied to Nintendo at all. What you consider "Rivals of Aether" is completely subjective...

Yeah but like… how can this game really stand out to the casual audience? No custom characters, art style more like smash, mechanics more like smash, and while this is subjective I know, rivals character design isn’t like, super unique

@@Swaxeman I don't know, maybe it won't and it really depends on what you consider a casual(I think it will get most people who like to compete in platform fighters to try it). The reason I like RoA so much is because the level of control you had over your character was similar to Melee without the insane timing + precision and that they were more focused on good balance rather than making a ton of characters. I also think the elemental gimmick/specials of most of the characters are pretty unique personally. Maypul's tethers and wraps, Ranno's poison and bubble. Orcane's(who I assume will be in the launch roster) puddles and all the things those entail, etc. It's more about meaningful unique aspects sprinkled in their movesets. Other game modes will be in the game eventually (just like RoA) but the focus at release is clearly to make sure the core gameplay loop and game feel is as polished and fun as possible. The core competitive gameplay is what gives games like Melee the staying power it's had.

@@Kade503 I guess. I’m more worried just about the games profit in this way. I just dont really see it capturing the more casual fanbase RoA did, with its more unique artstyle, and workshop

@@Swaxeman A lot of these things mentioned don't even drive casuals away. If the only thing that interests you about this game is seeing Peter Griffin in workshop just go play rivals 1, Mugen, or wait for when they make the game actually polished enough to warrant workshop.

Supporting greatness! ✊😎

Edgehogging is in Rivals 2, that most definitely won't change.

I like both ways of play. I think it would be fun as an extra mode in the game. Although, I don’t think they’ll add that, as it would create a divide between players. Which wouldn’t be good for the health of the game. At the very least, they tried to add some extra flavour to it with ledge specials. Rather than just doing the same system as Smash. Including ledges also creates an impression for the large group of smash players of: “Oh, so it’s like the Smash I know and love, plus a new mechanic? Sign me up!” Rather than: “Ugh, Rivals 2 doesn’t even have ledges. So it’s just a bare-bones Smash game. Sign me out..” So that might help towards getting more Smash players to check it out, increasing the game’s chance of success.

I think if they for some reason stopped updating rivals 2 and started making a new game it would be in probably at least like 10 years no joke.

Weird stance

​@@alex__9001 How is wishing success weird?

@@JuIianRock Is English not your first language or something? Because you took what he said and went leaps and bounds with it. All he said is that he missed the pixel art style, and that he hopes that the series gets another installation in the future. You're looking WAY too deep into this bud.

@@JuIianRock Stop making me feel bad. I'm trying to play Celeste.

3D modeling is way harder than pixel art, so even if the tools are there, the scene will probably be a lot less robust. Not to say I don't want the Workshop to come back, but I'd be shocked if Rivals 2 were known for it like Rivals 1 is.

Yeah, lol.

it's more because it's easier to move games when you have Mario and Pikachu and Link and so forth on the cover.

They're usually called platform fighters or at the least smashlikes. I think games like Brawlhalla and Rivals are unique enough they've made the type of game a whole genre. A smash clone would be something like Smash Flash 2.

I guess halo is a doom clone, Tekken is a street fighter clone, terraria is a Minecraft clone

@@readyplayerthree3 ngl, I just wanted to leave a positive comment for the algorithm :P You are right about "platform fighter", I was thinking more about the Multiversus and the Nickelodeon ones.

​@@ArchesBromultiversus wasn't really good at all but it's still really different to smash, nasb, I barely know about

@@cosmic5665 a lot of early FPS games actually DID get called doom clones, as I understand it.

You just gotta get better at mixing up your recovery. It adds way more depth offstage

I can't agree with that. Mixing up recoveries vs. edge guarding can be one of the most interesting aspects of a platform fighter. If it's missing, there's this huge void of guaranteed recovery where there could have been interesting gameplay. Smash players like to complain about waiting for combos to finish in traditional fighting games. Not having an edge game is similar in practice, and it's not fun. Successfully completing a long and/or smart edge guard sequence has always been satisfying as hell.

@@bugliker1 it's more about game feel for me. I get that it is a sound mechanic but it never felt good to me, even being the one on the giving end. I enjoy all of the other edge game aspects, just hogging specifically. I grabbed the ledge first, felt very "bully dangling a toy out of a kids reach going nah nah 😝". Now mind you ledge trumping in the newer games also has its problems and I don't think there is a perfect solution. Just a silly opinion on how a mechanic felt, no right answer here. Honestly the Aether devs are pretty clever and would have liked to see something unique.

@@Sir_Robin_of_Camelot in many ways I agree with you. I have have said my original comment more incoherently than intended. I love 2 framing in modern games, messing with the opponent while they are off stage, trying to wall out and limit the opponents options getting off ledge. Offstage and edge guarding are the lifeblood of the genre, as you said. For me, it is specifically the 'I grabbed ledge first so you can't grab it' ledge hogging that never felt good. It is a technically sound mechanic that, game feel wise, never felt good on the giving or receiving end. Mind you this is simply my opinion about game feel, super subjective. I also don't think the modern ledge trumping is a better solution either and honestly I was kinda hoping to see a clever new mechanic we haven't seen before because the Aether devs are very clever and creative devs. I totally get everyone's opinions here and absolutely respect them. I guess I was just shooting for the stars for something newer here.

@@fukidosan Fair enough, we all have our opinions. I will the say "I grabbed it first so now you can't" does have some counter play (outside of just being unable to recover on stage, but even then, you have to time invincibility or ledge getup and not get clipped). It can be used as a bait to get someone to recover high. Then the counter play to that is calling out the bait and recovering to ledge for example. Can make for some interesting mindgames. In Melee for example, some characters even gain advantage if they get back to ledge, because they ledgedash with invincibility. It's way more interactive than people give it credit for. But I can totally understand not being a fan of it.

it's not to counter pummels, it's to counter chaingrabbing. see at about 2:33 when Wrastor turns yellow after getting grabbed? that's chaingrab immunity--getting grabbed in that state immediately breaks you out. winning the pummel 50-50 removes the chaingrab immunity so you can go for a regrab after your throw. it also allows them to remove the button mashing mechanic that the smash titles use to keep pummels interesting.

I like both, but as a DK player in Smash, I love his new size. Expand Kragg. :p

You clearly just don't like big characters, I main gief in SF and pot in ggst, keep kragg big

he's as natty as the Liver King 😂

To be fair the only reason a lot of smash mechanics weren't in rivals 1 was due to limitations they were facing with the engine they had

I kind of see it as a good thing, it makes the game different enough to have the original not feel obsolete (kind of in the way Smash 4 is now with Ultimate existing). You can still enjoy the original's style, play, and hopefully even continue competitive with the original while the new game gets its time to shine.

@@vicstonek9 I was kind of with you except for the fact that in my opinion and I think many others smash ultimate made smash 4 completely obsolete nobody plays that game anymore smash ultimate literally completely replaced it It would have been a better example if you said smash ultimate amd melee since those are still two distinct communities but nobody's playing smash 4

​@@vicstonek9Eh, I think nobody is giving Smash 4 the respect it deserves. Questionable character balancing aside, I think it's got a lot of cool tech in it that no other game seems to have.

I don't think you have to worry. You have to remember that although there are more defensive options than in Smash or Rivals 1, there are also much more movement and aggressive options than in those games (particularly Smash). And if your opponent is just sitting in shield, it seems like grabs will be very powerful similar to Melee, and shields also seem to break much easier than Smash

It did exist but it was more like an arcade mode with only the first 6 characters lol. Single player content was definitely it's downside steam workshop was the only thing for casuals

I personally think edgehogging is the more interesting mechanic. Even in situations where it's very clear your opponent can only come back is via a ledge grab it becomes a technical check to see how fast you can get to ledge. But to me ledge hogging becomes a really interesting mechanic once the player recovering can make it back by both ledge or just landing on stage. Without ledge hogging it's almost always safer to just go for ledge, which reduces choice, with ledge hogging going for ledge isn't an automatic return to stage as it becomes an interesting mind game. Your opponent might grab ledge last minute making it so you fall to your death, but landing on stage causes landing lag making it possible for you to die that way. I personally think Melee's ledges are too strong so that isn't the best example of this mechanic working well but I personally prefer it if it's balanced correctly, it surprisingly creates more depth. Smash 4 trumping was also pretty good but I personally prefer ledge hogging.

@@t00nbink I don't think purely technical skill checks are good for the game. That's what L Canceling is, and it wasn't included in Rivals for that very reason. Sometimes edge hogging does becomes a mental game (Fox and Falco's side B), but that's the only instance it contribute depth to the edge game, and that's a vast minority of cases. And even when it does, the reward for an edge hog read is far too large (guaranteed KO at any %) compared to predicting an on-stage side B (resetting the recovery situation). That makes it feel very, like... topheavy? as a mechanic and it doesn't feel good as a result. The risk/reward is skewed. WithOUT edge hogging, the ledge is only safe due to ledge invincibility, which is its own problem. Instead of removing that problem, edge hogging just covers it up with a second problem. I did not like ledge trumping at all, and I did not like edge hogging at all. I think both are very poor mechanics. This is a big reason why Rivals was my favorite platform fighter; it elected to forego ledges altogether. As a result, the game was forced to give us so much depth of off stage movement and recovery options that it had an incredible amount of offstage skill expression on offense or defense. I think ledges could work if they were balanced to be just another one of these many options. But because flexibility of recovering has been reduced, and the ledge grants (three whole rounds of) invincibility, it looks like the ledge has become a hugely centralizing aspect of recovery, just how it is in the Smash games. And because edge hogging is an unconditional counter to grabbing the ledge, that too will be over-centralized, reducing the game's nuance.

@@NoshuHyena I think you make good arguments, and I agree. I’m still super excited for Rivals 2 and wish it the best of success and longevity. But I also particularly fear your last paragraph of prediction will be right on the money. But in any case, I think Dan and the team do good work. And do great with involving themselves in the community and take feedback. So if it indeed does prove to be too much of a problem, hopefully we can reach the devs with our concern once the game is out and potentially we have something more concrete to point to? .. Unless there’s enough people who just prefer the ledge hogging, like many also do, especially from the Melee crowd and such?

@@EonWhite Oh yes! I sometimes get so wrapped up in the negatives that I forget to praise Aether Studios for their hard work and incredible vision. Rivals 2 will still most likely be my main platform fighter when it comes out, even if it ends up faltering in some aspects. Unfortunately I think the anti-edge hogging crowd is outnumbered here. I've tried to bring this up in front of Melee players and the most common response is being called a scrub who thinks it's cheap or cheating. But that's definitely not my reasoning, of course xP Regardless, all this is moot since the game isn't even in alpha yet, but let's prepare to spread the word just in case.

I agree. I can appreciate that ledge hogging adds some much needed counter play for recovering to ledge, but I've always hated the concept that grabbing the ledge is a kill move. I'd like to see platform fighters try new approaches to ledge problems like Rivals 1 did. That being said, I have faith in the Rivals team to make a good game, and I hope they make it work well for them.

Ikr! Ledgehogging is dope!

I’m super excited for the game. And while I like playing platform fighters both with ledges and without ledges, and also think Melee is cool and all. I must admit that taking stocks with ledge hogs is stale and boring to me. :/ Stocks should be taken with attacks rather than technicalities imho. But it is what it is, and others are allowed to prefer it or be hype about it, of course.

He's not calling it useless, just hard to utilize properly. Hence why he is telling beginners to learn the fundamentals first before trying the flashy tech stuff.

Not true.. you can still be very high level without hitfall. But obviously using hitfall improves the gameplay a lot!

I mean, power shielding is something you have to time right, so you can't just mash shield. Mash shield, and you're likely gonna get wrecked. Likewise, it also encourages you to be more careful about your attacks instead of being Masher McGee getting away with random bullshit.

You don't know enough details to make an argument lol

I know more than you people and Dan clearly. Powershielding with bubbleshields allows you to mash shield all day without punishment. The fighting game triangle never works in platform fighters at all as intended because of all the robust movement the platform fighters give you or some physics and mechanical reasons so making bubbleshields the worse thing about platform fighters have a way to mash R and L is unhealthy for the game. This game is gonna suck lol. Powerhsielding with good buffer is all i need to know to know that. Smash bros is not something you want to copy when it has many flaws especially melee.@@Sir_Robin_of_Camelot

Encourages you to wait for teh opponent to do something first and turns a game into a snoozing campfest where whoever shielding is the meta. There is already parry and other defensive mechanics so powerhsielding is overkill and what timing lol. Timing a powertshield is so easy you could mash it even.@@LloydTheZephyrian

So not only do you have defensive mechanics the ruin the game state and what made rivals 1 so great you now also have a mechanic that invalidates parry the better mechanic that actually takes timing and predicting and learning unlike powershielding which turns a game into shield simulator. Why parry if you can just get similar punishments with the braindead powershield. Shields don't discourage mashing or encourage careful play. No Parry does and instead powerhsield encourages campy gameplay. You know nothing about gamestates and design choices and their consequences. Look at smash 4 gameplay and tell me with a straight face bubble shields and powerhsielding is good for a platform fighter. You can't. You know nothing about the issues with loads of platform fighters or even smash and games that want to be like smash.@@LloydTheZephyrian