It’s so hard to watch because I completely 100% understand his compulsion to make it make sense no matter how many conflicting ideas it requires holding in your mind at once. It’s exhausting to try and hold all those ideas and also consider yourself a “good” person in today’s world. The best parts of him are from what he’s learned about living in society with fellow humans, not what he has gleaned from the Bible. Because he’s had to throw out most of what’s in the Bible anyway. I think Steven is a good man, but he is mistakenly crediting Christianity for the good in him when really, it’s the good in him that pushes back against the worst of Christianity. I just kept thinking as you guys talked, “It’s just not worth saving, Steven. You don’t need to be working this hard to hold onto it.” If the entirety of the good in religion can be summed up with the golden rule, then, let’s just use that. We don’t need the rest.
I concur 100%. And…if, by some improbable chance, or what have you, if we’ve followed the golden rule, if we’ve done our best…where did anyone truly go wrong?
when the war comes to an end in Ukraine, reguardless of what happense, people are going to have to live with those that murdered their families and were called heros by their country for it. Maybe we don't need Jesus to forgive somoene for saying something rude to us, but to end generational blood fueds, beleiving that God himself suffered worse injustice and responded with self sacrifice and love makes a real difference.
I’m not Mormon or from Utah (atheist from TX), and Carrah has become by favorite creator in such a short time. Your intelligence, conscientiousness, passion, and of course humor (love your super sarcasm!) and general personality and especially your patience and grace dealing with believers (at least ones who aren’t terrible people) makes any listen to you enjoyable. I’m having an horrible day and seeing this just posted from you literally made me instantly feel better because I knew it would get me out of my own mind. Keep it up!
Howdyyyy fellow Texan!!! (though I do consider myself a gay Christian), I couldn’t agree more!! Aside from that, I similarly had an off day too, but mine is turning around thankfully and I hope yours is too!! 🤙🏽💛
@37:35 - But isn't Jesus the Old Testament made flesh? He said it himself, he didn't come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. So by following Jesus you are also in agreement with the Old Testament, no? Because Jesus never said there was anything wrong with the Law, the only thing wrong was that men and women couldn't possible obey them all, so Jesus had to do it on behalf of everyone.
Personally I think it is good that the Bible, aswell as religions have their errors and downfalls. There was a time I thought its so confusing and bad that the world and even the scriptures are made up this way, and especially when someone takes on the view of the inerrancy of the Bible this must be a difficult proecss, basically to iginore and bend away whats evil, basically justifying all evil by Gods ways being so far above ours, having no other explanation for it. But Jesus said something interesting, he said the way we are to discern true from falsde prophesst (and I would argue even all spiritua truth from deception) is by its fruits, and once we know the good fruits, we can know without any doubt that the tree (source of the truth claim) is true also. So what are these good fruits? Paul makes clear it can neither be works, the working of miracles, the knowing and understanding of all things, the gifts of the spirit, the gift of prophecy, nor faith to remove the mountains.. for Paul also makes clear that all these things can be present, but still be of no value if without charity. And so it seems the only thing that the good fruit can actually be is the amount of kindness, patience, mindfulness, forgiveness, truth-embracing, selflessness etc that is brought forth within ourseles.. or in others words, everything that brings forth within us these attributes of charity, is of God.. And so it is interesting how even the Bible states that those "who do not love, do not know God".. James calles this the purest form of religion. And so real religion, real spirituality, a real testimony of things can and should never be founded on secular evidences alone, because even people that experience Near Death Experiences, see Angels and God, believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, know all "about God", may still not "know God", and end up with different interpretations of truth. And so in light of all this it makes sense to me what Jesus said, the only way we can know God, and know that we follow God is, if we embrace everything that inspries us to become a kinder, more mindful, forgiving and gentle people, and if that happens within us, its not the most vital thing that every doctrine, prophet or religiojn is perfect. And to me there is the beauty of it all. Everything is imperfect, which should make all of us feel more like belonging to eachother, which should make us humble that even our interpretation of truth can and should evolved, uinderstanding that the more we seem to know and understand spiritual matters, the more we also have to realize how much there is we dont know yet..
Ex mo here… Super grateful I’m not in this world of mental gymnastics anymore. This dude is an Olympian! Really appreciate your perspective and pushback Carah 💗💗💗 Keep up the good work!
Yep, he won’t answer any of her questions. He just name drops known skeptics but says “beautiful experience” testimonial crap. He’s doesn’t give any rational reason for believing what he believes
I'm finally getting around to watching this. As a fellow "New Atheist", I've been interested in Steve Pynakker's conversion to Christianity. (I met all 4 of the Horsemen in person via Skeptics conferences mostly via TAM! in Vegas.) I found this conversation to be interesting and kudos to Carah for asking some good and probing questions.
That guy is like … i i i i i . Who is you 😂😂😂 well ? Good job as an interviewer. Letting him go on and on . I don’t know about all these Jesus remixes. Everyone is trippin
Saw one vid on his channel where he states over and over again (in the first few minutes alone) how much he supports israel. I’m not sure he’s able to analyze and critique data. Imo it’s a red flag that his audience doesn’t like Carah cause she thoughtful and hilarious while being critical of undue influence. Idk I couldn’t finish either video because he’s insufferable and I watch girl defined 😭
5:00 Asks question 5:00-13:00 Cooks up a word salad, says ‘literally’ 19,763 times and doesn’t answer question. Fark my life. This guy doesn’t know how to answer a question.
He seems like a nice enough guy, but... around 15:00ish, Despite saying "I'm not saying Yay Look at me I'm Blessed", he's totally saying that. Basically he had some good luck, and puts that down as evidence for God, and an excuse (I guess?) for believing in God despite the rest of the evidence (and despite admitting that lots of other deserving people AREN'T having such good luck). It seems like he's not doing anything bad with that belief, though, so... no harm no foul? He has sense and compassion it seems.
These temple-going Jews he says would never worship a god other than the god of Abraham melted their jewelry and made a golden calf to worship because they were impatient waiting for Moses to return from the mountain. They were surrounded by polytheism. Why is it unthinkable that they would worship Jesus? 41:32
Jesus must have been special because he came from the backwaters of the empire and was illiterate yet changed history? Bruh that's like 90% of prophets???
Great job Carah ! He can’t answer any question he can only word vomit to attempt to make some hard hitting point to get a reaction from you and he won’t even try apologetics how can you argue a religion without referencing ANY apologetics ?
As a person who was raised in a religion free household (my parents were neither for nor against it, it was just not a topic in our house either way) his comment that we are hardwired to have a belief in god is complete BS. I can see how someone who was raised in a religion and has only ever known that life may think that's true, but it's not. I've never felt a single inkling of an urge to even halfway believe anything I've heard about god. Some all powerful being in the sky controlling every aspect of our lives and demanding we follow a set of rules that makes us miserable in life for the promise of some fairytale happily ever after land once you die sounds like the most far fetched ridiculous story ever and not one single cell in my body has any desire to believe it.
There are some Mormons who think Jesus is coming back really soon! 🤦🏻♀️ In high school in the late 50’s, I actually thought Jesus would return in 2000.
Why wouldn’t Yahweh have a direct conversation with us, like he did with Adam and Eve and Job and Jacob, rather than using Humans as His proxy?? I don’t think Adam, Eve, Cain, Lot’s Wife, David or Satan would agree that Yahweh wants to be questioned or have a discussion.
As an exvangelical (which feels so wierd to say btw for some unknown reason) my faith looked very similar to his for about the 6 months before I deconverted. I certainly appreciate Christians who are able to make so many concessions for reason and evidence yet still remain inside the religious community to promote humanism, empathy and critical thinking. Unfortunately as soon as you identify as athiest people (especially that you don't know) simply won't consider your opinions in the same way as when your a theist. I definitely would have pushed back against his idea of sin and that humanity is inherently flawed as Jesus being a cure and everyone who doesnt believe in the supernatural elements of his life being spiritually diseased doesn't mesh well with a tri-omni God for me. The antidote doesnt mean anything when it comes from the same person that poisoned the water supply. Anyways, this was a great video and I always love hearing rational debate on the subject.
I mean… lots of people change the details of how they worship over time. Some Christians become Muslims. Some Baptists and Methodists convert to Mormonism. It’s far from a miracle that some Jews were convinced that “Jesus” was the Messiah. Just as it’s not miraculous that some people were convinced that Joseph Smith was a Prophet, Seer and Revelator. If people in the 20th century can believe that Jim Jones was a miraculous Prophet worthy of worship, there should be no surprise that Jews in the 1st century could believe that “Jesus” was worthy of worship.
Jews in Jerusalem were also Hellenized. Especially the people who wrote the New Testament in Greek. Jews may have been monotheist (for the most part), but Jesus was seen as the fulfillment of the Messiah in the Torah. There is nothing miraculous about that. And it’s still monotheist.
I don't really mind religious people. It is difficult to write why concisely. I'm queer, I was raised and I identify as Christian. I am neurodivergent and religion helps create routine and boundaries that I otherwise do not always inherently understand. As a child I could have some difficult behaviors and , "because Jesus said so" Was a good enough reason to me. Religion seems to bring comfort to some people because it creates routine. I struggle with socialization and churches are generally safe for me to socialize at, even if the conversations are shallow. That's why I like it. I recognize that religion is very problematic. But it is here and I was raised with it. Thankfully, being neurodivergent makes me quite immune to the social pressures churches exude on people. I can exist and maintain my identity even if people don't agree with me being queer. I think that the solution is to increase awareness of problematic behaviours that threaten a person's autonomy, and have good boundaries. We will never be able to get rid of religion. It needs to phase out as humanity evolves. But having good boundaries and recognizing manipulation will protect us from the harms of religion. (And recognizing people that are struggling.)
I can’t even… Steven is so delusional, and grasping at straws to try and shoehorn his own beliefs into a “Christian” framework. It’s all just nonsensical babbling with nothing to back it up. This guy stands alone in his own little weird world of his own imagining. Almost impossible to get through this interview.
The guy wants things to fit, but this idea that man is corrupt therefore Jesus is demonstrably false. Jesus never solved homelessness or cured lepercy or even taught about washing hands with soap. But science did all this and continues to improve human life. Jesus was just another philosopher who got lucky
It’s a very small god who does not embrace everyone in Heaven. Who are the people who would not want to be Heaven? God should be able to seek and find us. We should not have to seek God. Why would a Savior even be necessary?
@21:18 - I hope they're still seeing a therapist or psychiatrist, 'cause severe depression and anxiety doesn't go away. The best we can hope for is to minimize the severity through modern medicine.
I would have loved to ask " if you were not raised religious, do u think you would have same beliefs. I honestly belive it comes from indoctrination from childhood. I also find it sad that religious people think they are good people due to a religion. Non religious people can be good people without religion. I think religion had a purpose hundreds of years ago. To control and confort a large population, i think now its mainly about power/money and control.
pattern recognition is fundamental to human existence. it keeps you alive. you are always going to see them, and you will often connect dots that are completely unrelated. that doesn't mean there's a god. god belief is a product of that survival trait. we invented deities in our heads. that's just how your brain has evolved.
I have a really REALLY hard time believing this person was atheist. If so, they didn't get to that point with logical thinking. There's no way you could develop those critical thinking skills, see the fallacy after falacy in every argument and then truly believe in this Christian God after all of that
Carrah, I really appreciate the way you posed the questions back to Steven. My problem with listening to a lot of what he said (and yall can disagree with me here) but claiming you're not a fundamentalist Christian, then putting sentences like I found Jesus in my Hindu friend in that Uber one day, is, in my mind, part of the problem. You define the same label for every emotion and feeling that someone else might give a different label to. You're taking away from that person's experience by claiming it was Jesus, dehumanizing a person's right to believe. We all speak the same language of belief, just with different labels, but most of those labels have done so much harm to others that it does not justify the cost. There is a natural human right to belief, but how do you know if that belief is true when it becomes presented the same way in so many other people with different labels. Also (like Carrah said) does a person's human right to believe, or need to believe, make the suffering of another okay? Also, I too say peace be with her when talking about Taylor Swift
This. And while I’m all for meeting people where they are at, bigotry shouldn’t be distracted from with civility politics. This whole idea of “we can talk calmly with one another” falls short when it comes to people who refuse to acknowledge the questions challenging their ideology.
@wifemommamak I agree. Human Race comes from that area, too. However, Ethiopians are aware of other religions around them. Many in Europe and the Americas make it seem that Christianity is the only way.
The truth claims of any religion are always the problem. And the solution is always the apologetics of "not impossible". I've seen the claims. I've seen the evidence. And the jury is in. I'm not convinced. Maybe the next claim will be better supported ... but I doubt it. So my mind (which has a bias toward literalism) assigns itself the label 'gnostic athiest' ... because I KNOW that every god claim that I have ever encountered is literally false... and thats the bar.
He said “ I call it Jesus you may call it something else” so beautiful…. We all call it what we call it.. I wish she would leave it at that. She keeps trying to pull it back to her old belief.Just be with he love and Freedom♥️♥️♥️♥️
This episode had me salivating! I’m a person of faith, yet I don’t believe in believing. I’m a former evangelical syncretic Neopagan Witch. I live on a spiritual thread that stretches from Neville Goddard to Chaos magic. Eckhart Tolle holds it all together while Peter Tosh sings about it and Alex Grey creates the images. And yes, I have a personal relationship with the savior. I would love to be in a conversation like this.
Feel bad for this dude, not articulate, has little understanding of history or theology and seems to still be confused about his identity. I have listened to many of your podcast's and I find you very through and intellectually well versed on all your subject matter. Your humor and empathy always come through with your criticisms. I felt like you had to stretch your patience with this person. Keep podcasting you'r doing such a great job.
Whether or not it is true, Christianity makes two things rationally sensible in a way that I don’t know if other worldviews can: 1. With faith in Jesus it becomes rationally sensible to strive for absolute perfection never lowering your standards, without burning out due to anxiety or overwhelming guilt for falling short repeatedly. 2. Christianity allows you to feel comfortable with all classes of society, not feeling ultimately inferior or superior to anyone else. You recognize that your talents and weaknesses are different than others, but that you all depend on God for every breath and that all people are image bearers of God in one way or another. Maybe these two benefits can be achieved through another worldview but I haven’t seen it. Christianity can be twisted to hurt people but the teachings of Jesus themselves are only beneficial. As for his warnings of Hell, Selfishness and self righteousness create hell on earth that we can see with our eyes, it should be warned against.
@@errrkt Do you mean like where in the New Testament can you find the teachings that help in those two areas? If that is your question: Some sources for the first point: The sermon on the mount (Matt 5-7) the entire book of James, and the book of 1st John, especially chapter 2, are really good at explaining the perfection we are striving for and the grace we are given as we reach for it and the forgiveness and patience we need to have for each other as we fumble along seeking to walk in the Spirit. Further, the way Jesus talked with the woman at the well who was not yet living up to Jewish religiosity, the way he treated sinners and the way he responded to the self-righteous all go further to show how these concepts work. 2 Corinthians 5:20-21 and so many more places talk about the grace we have in Christ and the responsibility we have to follow Jesus. As for the second point: Jesus taught he who is greatest among you will be the slave to all (Matt 23:11-15.) We are all called to be one in Christ as He is one in the father (John 17) we aren’t supposed to view the rich as better than the poor (James 2:3) Believers or not, We all bear the image of God (James 3:9 and Genesis 1:26. ) and we are all the offspring of God (acts 15:28). God doesn’t respect some above others (Acts 10:34 ) and we all come from God, and depend on God continually and are upheld by Him (Colossians 1:15-17) Those are just a few examples of those things being taught in scripture
The worldview you describe sounds like Classical Liberalism, or even plain ol' Humanism. Of course, ignoring the "image bearers of God", in this case, it would be the "image bearers of humanity", what gives you comfort around different kinds of people is the simple fact they're humans just like you.
I was raised in a Evangelical Background. I agree with you on God accepts and love you and anyone who is God! Now I feel it's a gift to be gay and I wish more evangelicals could be more affirming. I don't believe Jesus was illiterate since he taught from the Torah in the Temple. Jewish people have always been educated since the beginning that is why out of all civilizations we have the written language of Hebrew. I have friends that are Messianic Jews and they say Yeshuh, but most Jewish people believe these people are in a cult.
Thank you! I really appreciate the gentle and thoughtful discussion. To me, it's the philosophy of religion that's fascinating. Y'all both hit the nail on the head.
This ought to be juicy 😂 I’m a gay Christian myself who was raised in the evangelical / charismatic church so I’m buckling up! Edit: good grief. Jesus was not illiterate. He was Jewish and a boy, which meant he went to synagogue at a certain age. He definitely would’ve had to have the ability to read the laws and scriptures which helped him later in the Bible when reciting those very things to people, but most importantly with the Pharisees & Saducees.
I feel like a lot of people who go from religious to “athiest” think that it means “I hate god” It’s annoying to me just because there just isn’t any actual proof of god but that doesn’t mean we have animosity for a being that doesn’t exist. Hearing things like “I was a hard core athiest” doesn’t make sense to me. What does it even mean. 😅
yeah i had the same reaction just now. it's like he's trying to sell it like that grifter Lee Strobel did. I never believed in god, i also never was angry at a god that i don't believe exists. funny how that works. if you're angry at something, how can you claim to lack belief that it exists?
I think Christianity and religion in general should be simplified into treating others the way we want to be treated, understanding that we should treat ourselves in good, healthy and balanced ways, understanding that how things are below (here and not on earth in this present moment), so things may be above (in the future wherever we may end up).. Today is our tomorrow. And so everything we do and are should happen under this notion, and I am convinced that if all of us would live according to this principle, we would all rejoce and embrace all the differences in believe and conviction, because we would understand that this would make all of us human, gving room to individual spirituality. To me the idea to be the chosen ones should never mean to feel more saved, to feel more loved, to feel better than others, rather it should mean that our desires should be to choose what we long for, and be what we hope for from others... it would take away all this narrow minded, religious and dogmatic judging of others.
GUYS. As a Never-Anything who has been following all of the Ex-Mo podcasts as a weird hobby for the past year or so, this has been one of my absolute favorite conversations. While I land hard within Carah's POV, I do believe we can achieve world peace if all tough topics were approached with this kind of respect, good faith and intellectual honesty, including acknowledgement and embrace of our own biases. Carah, while I enjoy your humor, I am an even bigger fan of your serious, thoughtful side. More of that please! Would love to revisit where you guys stand over time. Thank you both for a fantastic conversation. ❤❤❤
I had to laugh at the 'as the never anything but has a weird hobby, who has just been listening to the ex mo podcasts for the last year or 2, as that's basically describing me too! 😂
@@hippychicken82 Me tooooo. Are we the same person???? I basically keep Ex-Mo content running in my headphones whenever I am doing tasks that do not involve reading. My friends & family think my hyperfixation is super quirky. Carah doesn't know this but she and I are BFFs. 😄
Imaginations is hard for historic that christian most common if read as secular history, the hints about states of mind is about mind can believe like others unbelievable if just historic facts on people mind adventures then time just happened when actuality same state mind experience by need to judge till observation is correct value-based thoughts master of control states in same mind can be thief or judge good and bad judgements both sides can be brilliant thefts' and judge not in need for violence just good observation all needed to be able to oviod judgment even be friends.
Carah, I love Steve and his passion. He says he does NOT feel about God the way he used to but he believes now from a different place. Being able to progress.
The movie, ‘Cocoon’, is a fun one to contemplate. That reality exists; the ability to assume different forms, shapeshift, whatnot. Our current reality, as we know it, can somewhat support that truth. The technology to grow organs is a technology in space, where gravity doesn’t harm the process. Why not grow a whole ‘new’ human? Needs a soul to ‘animate’ it. Our human bodies are avatars in an archaic system. We needn’t suffer, grow old, ill, die ( we are man aged…so stupid imo), suffer from criminal systems, the war systems that arise from lack and ptsd, creating more lack and ptsd. Better plans exist. Better systems of existence are a reality. We need an improvement from our Betamax vision. In the meantime (drumming fingers on the chalkboard while my nails grow out), be kind, be generous to yourself and others. Help if you can.
There’s not much about Christianity that is unique. It’s mostly a Greek spin on the Septuagint - which is a Greek version of the Torah. The prophecy that Temple would be destroyed was added decades after the Temple was destroyed. And, obviously all the accounts that we have of what Jesus said were written down by people who were literate (and well versed in Greek myths and Greek literature and tropes as well as Jewish myths and Egyptian myths and Babylonian myths). Also, one doesn’t have to be literate to be wise and intelligent. Impact of the Calendar affecting the world is due to the Roman Emperor deciding to adopt Christianity if he won a battle after praying to Jesus. And then Romans killing and enslaving people who refused to also adopt Christianity. Nothing miraculous or “divine” about any of that.
You have it wrong you have no reason to be saved . Because you are part of the God code your soul is an immortal being it never die . So you have no need to be because you are Gods.
Nuance Ho: "You're wrong because. . .” Guest: "You're right, but Jesus.” The guest will say anything to save his belief in Jesus and Christianity. Often, the more intelligent a person is, the easier it is for the person to rationalize, but I wonder about this guy.
At 10:20 ish…it honestly sounds like a movie plot. You know? One coming from hoi polloi & changing human history. As though the scheming of the times, of the church wasn’t using their intuitive psychology, I think we’re giving a real disservice to their imagination & their motivations & the numbers of minds behind building this narrative. And then we’re giving it too much credit. PLENTY of religions have impacted the world…Christianity, one of the most transparent efforts of commandeering I think we see, currently…theft is powerful. Constructing ideology by any means necessary & through intelligent observation & manipulation over time & all the things…it’s far to man made, yo.
The KJV bible is God words. Perfectly preserved and inspired and the perfect word of God. When your burning in hell you'll realize the bible warned you. Reject it if you want, doesn't hurt me.
Galileo to me is a most impressive person and story. Having the Church fundamentally repress an individual, using a simple telescope (more like a poor pair of binoculars) restating the heliocentric nature of our solar system. On first gazes in the 16th century, galaxies were not "discovered" until the early 20th century.
