Explaining Knowledge, Fate, and Time [Genshin Impact Lore And Theory] 

The fact that stories cant be destroyed by irminsul makes Venti even more sus seing as he is a Bard and his songs most likely Bypass the alteration of History.

In gnostic hymn, it mentins how the first heir 'forgot their noble lineage' While not literal, in terms of our story, we could call it a metaphor for the travellers. They are searching for a 'genesis pearl' (A secret from celestia, like the truth of the world maybe?). One twin forged their origins and is corruupted (cue the abyss and them being recorded in teyvat's history) Second twin continues where the first failed. We could even call this the 'fairytale' of the travellers, a record to keep events straight for venti to remember (He narrates the story)

During Zhongli's story quest, connects forgetting to the power of erosion and says something about "the erosion imposed on me by the Heavenly Principles." It seems to me that a lot of the Archons and their associates are aware that their memories aren't safe, and perhaps that statement was more literal and that the Heavenly Principles deletes/edits memories for whatever reason it/they deem necessary. Nahida could already have had her backup folder already because she was preparing for that, not for Wanderer or any other intrusion into Irminsul. After Zhongli's story quest, we see him encouraging Iron Tongue Tian to continue telling and retelling the stories, but before that he listened to them over and over again. Perhaps the transformation of fact into lore distorted by retellings by different people through generations is sufficient to preserve it from being completely forgotten, becoming instead a story seemingly about someone else except it might still stir familiarity on the subject of the "erosion" such that they remember some of it back. Zhongli's trying to stave off his erosion in his way. And obviously, Venti's a bard and "lies" and retells events into metaphorical lyrics. Maybe he's not trying to be secretive, maybe he's just making sure the story will be preserved even if he forgets what it's about. Meanwhile, Ei's closest friend encourages writing down stories, often highly dramatized. Eventually, even those stories could be adapted enough times to not be affected by any changes because people have changed them already. And yet, they'd still exist as a record. The Mocking of a Tenko even has lines about whether in the future fiction will be thought by scholars as history, or if the truth of the past will be consumed as entertainment. In any case, Nahida's not the only Archon who are personally archiving "stories" or have people near them doing it for them. Yae Miko's also in charge of their Sacred Sakura, so she really was assigned by the Electro Archon to protect memories and the publishing house could be her way of doing it. There's even a quest where the way to educate Ei is to have her read the light novels to get her back in the loop. Maybe they all believe or know Erosion isn't a natural process but something being done to them by Celestia and they're all trying to use the loophole. Maybe the reason they even go by so many different names is as a really bad safeguard against it, in case whoever's doing it slips up or doesn't care enough to delete every single name/identity used. In any case, I think these instances we've seen aren't the only times it's happened and maybe the Archons all know it. Hey maybe that yet to be seen scene of Dottore burning Irminsul is an attempt at forcing Celestia to restore from a backup, exposing where these backups might be.

I agree, Ei/Makoto didn’t just replace stuff in history, they created something new which altered everything. Scara and Kusanali just did a “find-replace”. It’s why it can’t affect allegories and why it didn’t change events done by Rukkahdevata previous to Kusanali being born. Had they actually erased Rukka, the world might have ended when The Scarlet King got corrupted, or at least that corruption would still be active since no one would’ve dealt with it. All they did was replace Kusanali’s name with Rukka’s. They even forgot to take away the Lesser Lord. Has nobody questioned why they call their only archon Lesser Lord Kusanali? That’s the biggest sign that they didn’t alter everything, just names. They just happen to call her Lesser Lord for some weird reason that nobody has questioned. With Wanderer fate had to be more creative into filling in the blanks.

What would happen if someone removed something extremely important like an entire nation or the concept of archons? How extreme would the change be or would the world bend fate to make the same events take place but slightly different.

THANK YOU ive seen so much misinformation regarding the consequences of Scaras actions online and im glad you explained stuff so well. His actions basically redacted his name throughout history he didn't change it which a lot of people don't seem to get

You are always one step ahead of me, so the moment I complete something, you are there to explain wtf just happened. You are our Seelie guide.

I'm still curious about some of Venti's interactions with the Traveler, especially the "Hello" voice line, because it implies that he remembers us but we don't.

My only gripe is that there was such a lost opportunity for Ei and Scara to interact, and so many unanswered questions like according to the new timeline 'Who did Yae trade the gnosis with to save the traveler? and how did it get to Sumeru?' It couldn't be Signora because Raiden Shogun killed her before leaving Inazuma. I truly hope we get those answers in the future and flesh out Ei's and Scara's complex relation, instead of being like 'oops, she forgot about him so all is good'

The ending got me laughing hard 😂😂😂 "the 3.3 quest archon...bleuh!" "The 3 point_...blah!" 🙌

Irminsul manipulation is shown to be flawed as well. The previous Dendro Archon had the wisdom to properly set up Nahida as a replacement not only as an Archon, but also in history, because the change was relatively simple: dying and reincarnating vs losing power and memories. The motivation by the scholars to lock up Nahida were still largely the same (unfit for duty), and the Archon's condition was technically a form of the truth, even if the exact circumstances were different. In contrast, the Balladeer haphazardly rushed into erasing his aliases. This caused inconsistencies regarding his existance, which is why the voice at the end of the latest quest (it sounded like the same as the Unknown God, though since the tones were completely different, I am still unsure) reacted to this change and not the last one. Paimon should have remembered breaking the vase, but since there was no knowledge to substitute circumstances of the event, Paimon forgot even that. There are sure to be more. Most Inazuman inhabitants of the Raiden Gokaden incident are dead, with only long-lived creatures such as Yae Miko still being around. However, Miko probably suspects whomever was blamed for the incident may have not been the culprit. The Balladeer's long work with the Fatui is sure to cause inconsistencies as well. A new Harbinger was not made up to take his place, and the other Harbingers are sure to grow suspicious about why one of their number is wholly unknown to them and the Tsaritsa. The Balladeer often worked alone, so there would be no partner to be rewritten as the one to have committed his deeds. All this to say, the Wanderer (I named him Sora) royally screwed up when he triggered whatever entity talked to us at the end of the quest.

"Lost 50/50 and a kidney" I felt that

Never fated to be together to begin with. Now that sentence is I can strongly attest. Unless you are an F2P Traveler, you can use your influence (aka real money) to make the character you pull much stronger (getting more constellation and higher personal weapon level). This is like what FGO means on getting the character: if they feel that you deserve their help, they will come to you no matter what happens and if not they will ignore your wish whatever you do.

This is basically the same as ''if the forest burn but no body sees it, was there really a fire?" kind of paradox

Regarding encoded information, I find it interesting how the only in-game reference to Istaroth's actual name is written backwards. Also, I'm not entirely sure what happened with Ei was distinct from what happened with Rukkhadevata in terms of power. Rukkhadevata was a deletion, the Sacred Sakura was an insertion, but both rippled backward in time. The Sacred Sakura was written into Irminsul as having always been there, which is why everyone believed it as such, but did not actually come into being until the Cataclysm, hence why Ei believed it to be new. It's unexplained why Ei was unaffected but my personal theory is that: because she is the one who planted it, and her planting of it was in her future, it would be a paradox for it to affect her the way it affected everyone else. Thus, I believe the Sacred Sakura to also be an instance of Alternative History. If you're wondering "well, how did things like the Shrine spring into existance spontaneously at the moment of its creation during the Cataclysm?" that's a great question, but then also consider how the Wanderer had entirely different clothing...that, too, spontaneously came into being to accomidate the revised history. Lastly, it's perhaps worth noting that history is "the study of past events," which implies our present-day perception. So, technically, isn't changing our present-day perception of the past, in fact, rewriting history? There's a lot of confusion over terminology and you've done some work here to try and differentiate, which is super helpful; that said, perhaps it'd be better to say "Alternative History" vs. "Altered Past"? (technically Altered History would also be valid here) I know this may seem nitpicky but maybe it's worth being on the same page regarding terminology because of how confusing this is for so many folks. Just a thought! It's how I've been explaining it to folks and it seems to have helped on my end.

so does this mean scara is still made by raiden even if she doesn’t know it? he has the little electro symbol on the back of his neck, how does he think he was made when he was the wanderer?

After watching the Interlude quest, plus the parent game/story HI3 recent chapter 33, the implications are much more terrifying. The traveller's role in helping Nahida back up Scaramouche's true memories is akin to Project Ember; to preserve true knowledge to be passed on/make use in the future. Scaramouche erasing himself from the Irminsul and reborn as the clueless, innocent Wanderer is akin to Fenghuang Down.

Thank you a lot for these videos. I'm drowning in schoolwork really stressed but it's always nice to have a super chill video to listen to in the background while reading more old crusty research papers on econ and law.

Does anyone remember in Lisa story quest thing, when we took back the book from the abyss mage and the abyss was stunned when we didn’t know what the book was truly about. I fear that this book just like scaras fairy tale has a forbidden or forgotten history

Basically the Irminsul is unable to change the past since Scaramouche still exists and event that has happened can't be unchanged. The Irminsul simply changes all Teyvatian perceptions and knowledges of past events such as Rukkhadevata removes the concept of herself and replaced as Kusanali, and Scaramouche wiping out the Raiden Gokaden but replaced as a blacksmith with a grudge. In the end of the interlude quest, the voice tells the Traveler to always believe on what they see with their own eyes since people's heart are simply illusions and can be changed by Irminsul and it cannot change real events.

I feel like there has possibly been a great erasure that needs to be addressed: The archon's identities... This one is a bit fishy, but hear me out here. Venti goes by the name of... Venti. So far, so good, okay. This is his bard name, his "mortal" name. The character he uses to tell tales about Barbatos, however... The tales he tells, are often different from what the masses believe to be the truth, leading to trouble. In other words, he created those songs so the knowledge would not be lost and he could sing of his past deeds to the people. Then, we have Zhongli: talks about erosion and how it impacts him and his memory. What does he do? Spends a good bit of his time listening to stories about himself to attempt to regain lost knowledge, all despite his remaining treasure trove of knowledge regarding everything else being intact. Then, we have Ei. We know Inazuma didn't know their archon was being played by two twin sisters, so this could be Hoyo using it as an excuse for them not knowing who her sister was. In their mind, Ei was always the archon, very similarly to what happened with Nahida. But to make matters worse, she had to effectively delete her predecessor's identity herself... How is this relevant? Well, it was what was effectively poisoning Irminsul due to Forbidden Knowledge... Going back to Ei real quick, she likely remembers her sister due to having her consciousness stuck outside of time (same reason why she remembers the Sakura tree not being there before). What if the contract Zhongli mentioned at the end of his act was to have the archons forget all about what they saw in the Cataclysm and their divine identities, because what they saw could be considered Forbidden Knowledge? It would explain a lot of random things that until now felt like they were unused Chekhov's guns and feels like it would justify Venti's/Zhongli's decisions to step down. If we then look at the remaining archons, both the Hydro and Cryo ones are not the originals, meaning that while having their identity forgotten, their motive to be one of the Seven would be missing the initial drive (if their birth is similar to Nahida's), and it would explain their opposition to the concepts of the Divine. The Hydro archon wants to judge the others (likely for supporting what happened during the Cataclysm), not knowing the danger of the situation, while the Tsaritsa only remembers the bitterness she felt by the situation, seeing no reason to trust in the Divine. This theory needs a lot more to back it up, namely to know what Murata will tell us, but how a lot of it lines up is interesting to me. Edit: Just remembered something else that would relate how this could have affected the Tsaritsa: Her act's line in the Teyvat story trailer, "She is a god with no love left for her people, nor do they have any left for her.". Why would a god randomly lose her love for her own people, after seeing a superior entity effectively eradicate another civilization? Why would her people do that as well? Maybe, because all that was related to that personality, that part of her, was merely knowledge, now lost to time.

Hold up since you mentioned that anything said by anyone is recorded in irminsul than maybe Nahida could tell us about the archon war the Fatui and the abyss orders plans without us going to the other nations therefore the story could end in Sumeru and we could just focus on finding our sister and yeeting ourselves out of teyvat

Plot Twist: Travellers sibling and the Abbys has been tampering Irminsul trying to avoid the doomsday of the whole Teyvat. _That's probably why the Abbys and the sibling has been fighting against Destiny (which is also, probably one of the Descenders)

the thing i noticed about this is it doesnt change past and present, but it changes the future. all what scara did cant be undone, but things that were going to be done to him, say the fatui searching for him, is no more going to happen

When traveler entered irminsul i really thought damn nahida gave us access to her google drive

Eyyy new lore just dropped

I doubt Makoto/Ei and Nahida/Scaramouche were changing the past by using different processes. Surely there's just one way to do it and the rules of how it works out ought to be the same. But even if you ignore the Sakura tree, we have examples of physical objects changed by Irminsul. It's not just changing perspectives or memories but actual reality. The vase remains broken but Paimon didn't break it. In this reality a cat or a bird broke the vase. The past changed. Scaramouche didn't fail to change the past. He failed to change the part of the past he wanted to change.

In the end it all leads back to venti. He's mentioned before that his ballads are just stories waiting to be told, and even compares them to kusanalis wisdom. Makes sense he would use their vague implications to record the actual truth

Since the traveller is not part teyvat's history which means he will be forgotten as years goes by😭 But remember Venti makes poem and songs that cannot be erased by irminsul😎

It’s so genius to me that Genshin’s lore is so thorough it even spans into metaphysical aspects of the game. I had a recent theory about the false sky, trying to understand how the sky can be fake but the stars can be read accurately by astrologers. But it occurred to me that each character has their own constellation to unlock skills and it made me wonder if this was the false sky, that mechanic. The fact that its fake in a meta sense, but still accurate within game. I didn’t give the theory any weight because I was certain genshins creators wouldn’t go for a metaphysical angle with the story, but after hearing you talk about the intertwined fates I’m starting to wonder if that really is their intention.

Ok exactly. This is what I realised too. But many of my friends thought things actually changed... Altered history.

Salamat Ate Aster! Galing niyo talaga!

1:46 With the codes and cyphers being a possible potential maybe way of bypassing Irminsul edits...Remember how in Dragonspine and near Devantaka mountain there are those broken ruin machines that give you messages that need to be run through at least two layers of decoding? Possibly meaning that Khaenri'ah was onto the Irminsul edit powers and took measures to save info like that?

I swear it fuckes me so up when someone insited that the timeline has changed

I think that irminsul does have the power to change reality (in specific, the *cause* part of causality) and that the constellations you mentioned as a seperate entity are just a projection of irminsul that show the prediction and pre-laid path created from it. I agree that there is "no more than timeline" simply because we are experiencing everything from the eyes of someone who is unaffected by *this* world's changes in time (at least as of now). I think you might've misunderstood why encoding into a fictional tale worked (used for a book the abyss order wanted too, if I recall correctly it was in Lisa's quest), it's not because of the encoding process itself (Nahida could've used a simple cypher instead if that were the case) but the fact that the encoding method masked it as some sort of data that held a value of it's own that still resonated with the continuity of reality, if someone is higly likely to mistake that for something else but still can understand and witness it then the system which rewrites (or rather, maintains) reality won't see the need to change it. I agree that Scaramouche killed the raiden gukaden but it is true that the mad swordsman also did. I have to disagree on how you pose the effects of changing irminsul's information work, especially with the vase section (and it's use as evidence to support that view), from which, together with the the dialogue of the unnamed individual, we can understand that while it is possible to actually change to *causes* of events, yet the effects are much harder to change and only a god might have a slim chance. Adding on that, it tells us to trust in our eyes and traveller thinks to trust in their memories, I belive it is a simple reminder that the traveller does not need to think of the existance of multiple timelines since they are experiencing the only one that actually exist and that their time is true even if the ones affected by time should think with the mental model of non-linear time.

I would like to know what the other translations Scara says about this summoning. In EN: "The only reason [they are] in this world is that the heavens responded to the summoning" I don't see enough evidence that the sibling was the target of this summoning just yet and HoYo LOVES to make us think one thing and later we find out we were wrong. (Example; Ei confirms it's NOT archons handing out visions - and to this day people still insist that is the case)

That intro jumpscared me in a good way

The way you spoke hilichurlian at the end of the video lmaooo

Soooo good to open YT before you sleep and find you’ve posted a vid. Nothing finishes a day like a good story to make your brain go off thinking about some weird stuff and falling asleep to it 😁😁😁

GIGA BRAIN GIGA BRAIN how do you form words, ive been trying to say this in my own terms but never could and here you are!!! no but seriously the concept of how you can change memory and time in different ways yet still manage to parallel each other is super interesting and im glad genshin is dipping its toes into this concept. i love time/memory fuckery :DDD

i think he just erased everyones memories from irminsul and irminsul just peiced things together because it forgot scara.

Can’t believe they made pulling in game characters cannon and consistent with in game story I’m flabbergasted

To anyone who's still confused with the archon quest just imagine that the whole teyvat is following a single storyline, so no matter what happened nothing will change its fate (it is what it is / predestined). Although according to deinsleif the traveller can possibly change teyvat's fate based on the travail trailer ("reweave fate" = change the storyline). So even though scara and nahida erase some of teyvat's history the whole storyline will just adjust but with the same outcome as before.

The pale princess is probably a metaphor to get past the censorship

If we go with the wishing system....after failing to tie fate, there's a guarantee of meeting them, however long it may take. Similarly for weapons. If we fail, we still meet with an alternate character and then will meet with the desired character.

Aster be explaining Jojo villain’s stand powers in this video

im seriously still intrigued about that someone who obfuscated abyss sibling's fate.

One great example for Altered History would be Fire Emblem Awakening. One of the leads, Lucina, traveled back in time to challenge fate and save her father. Then there is a DLC where first generation units travel to the ruin future Lucina came from, and to aid their children on defeating Grima.

In Sumeru Akademiya, there is a secret section in the library named after Aster.

"Encoding information", like a song or a poem?

Love the intro!

Have you made a video mentioning the Traveler's ability to empower others? The way Venti talks about ascension got me thinking...

If fairytales are used to secretly record history like how Nahida did about Scaramouche then maybe the tale about the heirs could be a way for someone like Venti to record the history about Lumine and Aether so far?

The ideas presented in this video has me pondering on the possibility that the stories of the three moon sisters, the princess and the pigmees, and the Gnostic chorus are all encoded allegories meant to hold a forgotten truth.

pretty intro, aster!!!!! 🤍

The fairytale reminds me of the moles code of the ruin guard in dragonspine.

really nice take 🍡

watching how people reacted to this quest due to massively misinterpreting everything in it was honestly sad

oh my god gacha is part of story and winning/losing 50/50 was destiny all along

i wonder what happens to information scaramouche got when he touches Leonard's Constellation way back Unreconciled Stars.

8:51 soo much truth in that one sentence 😂

Yup, this is pretty accurate!

1:47 I think a cipher would not work, Nahida's fairy tale required an outside (aka Traveler's) knowlage to be deciphered, otherwise ciphers are no different to an information written in another language.

Tavat is world like sword art online

Hmm,what if by bending 'fate' was only easy to do bc the moon sisters are no longer alive,or in a more simplify sense,control. I do feel like the moon sisters have that kind of authority. Like guardians of fate. This is just my thought. I do feel like,Irminsul is just an easy accessible device for almost everyone. And the erasure thing can really get out of hand quickly too. Here's another thing I thought of as well,u don't have agree with this. It's been on my mind ever since with the slow building lore. About Teyvat. I believe that the entirety of Teyvat itself is a purgatory. Or in purgatory state. A world of denial of lost dreams. Time,like fate,can be altered,yet it could also cause destruction should it be forced too much. Time can move on,go back to a degree,or in cases,die out. How much can the future save the past? And should it be relied on much? And does it connect to the 'loom of fate'?

I love this omggg finally

COOL INTROOOOO

Thats is a much better explanation than the traveler wan weild the memories of their power

New intro nice. 👍

I'm curious if Wanderer change history so he don't become scaramouche, who will become number 6th Fatui Harbinger ? Who will become the puppet of Raiden Ei ? ~ it's possible we see some new scaramouche will appeared in alternate line ? ~ wanderer change the history by erasing his exist being kunikuzushi (both Yae Miko and Raiden Shogun don't have that dialogue now) I feel kunikuzushi and Scaramouche never exist at all.

Patchouli, Remilia and Sakuya in a tree

I was slightly surprised to hear Alice instead of Dain for Wanderer's miscellany. What if it's because Alice is a descender? An outsider of Teyvat thus what does that make Klee? Teyvatian or outsider? If the pair of mother-daughter are descenders then our MC as the 4th sounds right, but if not then there are more mysteries to come. Or Alice is a higher being comparable to the god of time, among the archons so far I believe she's the closest to Venti she even left her daughter in the care of the knights. Also as previously said on your other video Monstad is too peaceful but holds hidden secrets. As if secret powers are protecting monstad the peace lasts even after the incident 500 years ago. We only know so little about Monstad and I'm still waiting for Vanessa. It doesn't make sense we still haven't seen the last of the four winds except she's somewhere guarding a certain place for the sake of Monstad.... So many things for end game lore in Monstad

I am successful in altering raiden shoguns fate to make her come home to me

I personally don't think the Irminsoul has anything to do with altering the past, even with fate remaining the same. If we take the Greater Lord, she always had to exist as the means of holding the forbidden knowledge that needed to be purged. If she was replaced with Lesser Lord Kusanali in the past, LLK and Irminsoul would still be affected by the Withering. Irminsoul is simply the collection of knowledge in Teyvat, and does not have any power over reality or the past, it is just the world's diary from which all of its residents read from. Just like a plant will grow/heal if a limb is cut off, so too does the Irminsoul try to repair Knowledge in Teyvat whenever an 'incision' is made. At the end of this quest, in the game's current reality, Paimon knew who the Baladeer was 2 days ago. Scaramouche simply 'cut off the branch' containing the Knowledge of himself, and the tree grew back, filling the knowledge of him with an unimportant nobody. Just as the tree filled in the gap of GLR with LLK, the 'alternate history' is simply an illusion across the residents of Teyvat, because the ledger they all reference had altered itself to fill the gaps made by these incisions.

So even if the sixth seat of the harbingers is empty, he still always was a harbinger right? (In both 'timelines' if you want to call it like that). Scara just forgot about it first. Gosh...the Genshin world is so crazy...

I was very hooked up to the end of this lore theory until the outro was.... uhmmmmm... that was cute. 🤣🤣

Wish. We had a eit d scara reunion 😭

5:20 Hm yes gambling lore

fumbling noises, cute!

Maybe Scaramouche just didn't want to ask his mom.

what if the irminsul cant change before sun and moon because it was inside the mirror room

Pls talk about omnidie revealing so much lore

Does using Knowledge Capsule protect information from Inrminsul erasure?

Got to admit, I'm more confused after watching the video than before.

I belive it only ereses memories and not events it slef

Hi just curious what are your thoughts about the scaramouche fairytale book nahida made and the pale princess and the 6 pygmys... since somehow it shows that those fairytales books we've been collecting has some truths about it. although the pale princess book has yet to be completed in-game.... Just curious....

So you mean to tell me. If we pay enough money we can change our fate with the characters in game? Huh. 🤔

So... it's the madela effect push to 150%

Alrite time to listen b4 i sleep

So would people from khaenriah also forget about scaramouche’s existence? For example Pierro as he was the royal mage in the lost nation.

The archons and other gods are of teyvet, but they are subordinates of Celestia, outlanders. Were the gods always here, and if so how did they become parts of teyvet

But if we lose 50/50 why the heck do we get intertwined with a cryo loli instead?

In Inazuma's story quest when we met scara dialogues were different for those who played 1.1 event quest and who didn't, does that count as altered history?

Scara wanted to change his fate so bad but his mommy issues were stronger XD

The fact that my username has been Atropos from the start xD

So wanderer caused a Mandela effect

Where is the monstadt tree?

Ah! Never fated or the fated still dead. Oh Otto Apocalypse! LOL! Scaramouche just reminded me of Otto's arc especially his end arc. I doubt GI team will throw Irminsul deus ex machina this early. It will be simplified with similarities to Honkai. I'll say this is just the experimentation failure with Scara like Otto accessing the imaginary tree and failing. If Pierro and co wants to revive Khaenri'ah, they can do this but the team better start making them complex now. Dottore at the moment is pure evil. + with the voice, I do hope it's a higher power like Will of Honkai wanting entertainment only to end up being fooled.

Did anything in the past got changed in the case of Ei quest?

And yet what or who il fill the gaps the rewriting (delete) happen, like who we meet in the starfall event, who is the one that get the eletro gnosis from miko, or how dottore base the giant robot from ? and bet many other details Like imagine delete something of more impact ,like the snake god from inazuma, not kill but delete from the world , the crystal that spam from his remain il not exist ...