Recently I was asked to explain the Catholic view of salvation to an Evangelical Bible study group over Skype. We also talked about a few other matters. Here's the video!
God bless these people. It takes humility to invite someone from another Christian denomination to a bible study group. And they were so charitable to Jimmy! A wholesome experience all around.
How inspiring to see the live active probing ongoing faith of these open minded Evangelical Christians as they further seek Christ. I love the chatter of family life in the back ground! How appropriate! God bless these Christians and draw them so close to the heart of your Son, the savior of all of us. And you were good too, Jimmy. : )
You're too kind! They just emailed me and asked if I'd speak to their group. I didn't have to travel, so I said yes, and they provided me with a list of the questions they'd ask up front so I'd have a chance to think about them.
@@JimmyAkin As a prior Nondenominational Charismatic Evengelical Luther-Bapti-Costal who spent 9 years TRYING to disprove the Catholic faith, your testimony and apologetics are 100% spot on that protestants would be blown away by. Well done, Jimmy! Thank you for sharing AND as a revert Catholic, Not only Did I learn how to explain our Catholic salvation but adding more scriptures to my apologetics toolbox. Someday, would love to meet you, Deus Vult!
1:15:42 This same issue was discussed on Pints with Aquinas on the episode entitled, "A Church in Crisis w/Dr. Ralph Martin". It's at the 1:34:16 mark on that video. When I attended RCIA for my confirmation classes everyone who attended (with the exception of two, me and one other) was there so they could be married in the Church. They were all couples, young couples. Even the teachers of the class seemed concerned when questions were asked and the attendees couldn't answer them. After watching episodes of The Journey Home on RU-vid and reflecting on my own observations I've noticed a theme. I've noticed it among Jewish believers as well. Roy Schoeman discussed how he lost his faith after his bar mitzvah. If we treat baptism and confirmation as simply cultural rituals they can be dismissed because the individual has no understanding of what they are receiving. There has to be formation, either before or after the sacrament. It has to become real for the individual. They have to choose it. A lot of well meaning parents expect their children to be confirmed as teens, but the teens themselves don't want to do it. They treat confirmation like graduation, "Once I've done this I'm done." I was very fortunate. I was raised with the Scriptures. Literally every day we either heard them or read them or had them read to us. That's how I began to memorize the Scriptures. My mother would quote the Bible all the time. She not only taught us the Our Father and Hail Mary, but she taught us to memorize Psalm 23, Psalm 91, "Come Holy Spirit" and many others. She took us to Mass not just on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation she took us regularly and to adoration. She was a Eucharistic minister for 22 years. She basically lived at our church. She served in any way Christ called her. She and other faithful parishioners met every Friday for prayer and worship and Bible reading. They went to the homes of the sick to pray for them. They cooked breakfasts and dinners. She also did something I rarely see Catholics do, she evangelized. She told others about Jesus, perfect strangers. She didn't go door-to-door. She just made use of every opportunity to tell anyone about Jesus. It was the combination of her daily living witness to the faith and her instruction and her charity (her love for God and others) and her prayers that brought me back to Christ.
@@_ready__ Holy Scripture teaches we must cooperate with God's saving grace and repent and bear fruit and forgive others and love one another and persevere to the end to be saved! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink
@@matthewbroderick6287 all the things you follow are the things Jesus stated to the Jews / Israel. Are you a Jew? What’s the gospel of Christ? Grace and peace
@@_ready__ Most inaccurate, as Jesus Christ said His message was universal. Are you without reading glasses? ( Matthew 28:19,20). Paul teaches the Same Message! You are in my prayers as you journey toward Truth! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink
@@_ready__ Paul also teaches we must be baptized, repent and do good and persist not in immorality and impurity and persevere to the end. (1 Corinthians 7:19, Galatians 5:19,20,21, Romans 2:6-8, Ephesians 5:5,6, 1 Corinthians 6:9,10, Romans 11:22, 1 Corinthians 6:11). Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink
This was such a blessing to me. It is a lovely example of how to share your faith with those who don’t agree or might even be hostile towards your faith. I struggle in this department and this was extremely helpful. Thank you so much for sharing. God bless and keep you.
May God bless every person who participated in this talk! Thank you, Jimmy, for being such a good witness and answering these questions with your characteristic clarity and charity. And to the family asking the questions, thank you for being so respectful in your manner of inquiry! I'm particularly impressed with how concise everyone managed to be on both sides: questions and answers. That is not a skill I possess, so my hat's off to all of you.
It would be good to see more of this in across the board in apologetics.. If only we would set aside our pride, seek obedience to God and His plan of sheer goodness and seek the Truth together.
God bless everyone involved: Jimmy for taking the time to speak to this group and the Evangelicals actually willing to listen to a Catholic source on the Catholic teaching on salvation.
I love this kind dialogue! It becomes extremely fruitful because of the charity shared. I agree that a lot of Catholics don’t know about their faith, like my parents, but that doesn’t make the sacrament of baptism invalid. I think that’s more of a misunderstanding of what baptism is and the affects it has. My entire family are “cultural” Catholics meaning that they get married in the Catholic Church and get their babies baptized but have zero clue as to why nor do they take an interest. I thank God that my parents baptized me as an infant because although I wasn’t raised Catholic or any “institutional religion” nor attended Mass, I had a huge conversion to Christ at the age of 34 that changed my entire life and He lead me to the Catholic Church. Now I’m the one teaching my parents about their Catholic faith. God wants all of us, but I know that my baptism at infancy gave me a special grace that was always with me, but I suppressed it because I wasn’t taught anything about it. God only needs a mustard seed!
I think this is really superb from Jimmy. This evangelizing is definitely more fruitful and interesting. Hope and pray the evangelical bible study group can be touched by the Holy Spirit and come into the true Church. the One, Holy and Apostolic Catholic Church.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 *🕊️ Explanation of Catholic view of salvation* - Explanation of the Catholic view of salvation within the framework of Catholic teachings. - Flexibility within Catholic theology regarding different interpretations. - Discussion on the speaker's personal journey and initial beliefs about salvation. 03:14 *⛪️ Current beliefs on salvation* - Explanation of the speaker's current understanding of salvation: repentance, belief, and baptism. - Discussion on the possibility of losing salvation and the process of restoration in the Catholic view. - Clarification on exceptions to sacramental requirements in Catholic theology. 09:18 *📖 Criteria for grave sin and salvation* - Definition and conditions for grave sin according to Catholic theology. - Scriptural basis and interpretations for repentance, faith, and sacraments in Catholic doctrine. - Examination of key passages supporting the Catholic view on salvation. 17:12 *💡 Prompt for current view and supporting scripture* - Discussion on the speaker's intellectual journey and critical evaluation of various Christian viewpoints. - Exploration of key scripture verses supporting the speaker's current understanding of salvation. - Reflection on theological advantages, particularly regarding sacraments meeting human nature. 26:27 *🙏 Understanding the comfort of sacramental forgiveness* - Sacramental forgiveness offers a tangible experience of God's forgiveness. - The sacrament eliminates the need for mental gymnastics to feel forgiven. - The authority of the minister in sacramental forgiveness provides reassurance and comfort. 28:07 *❌ Disadvantages of the Catholic view of salvation* - The Catholic view faces criticism from some Protestants, although it's widely accepted in various Christian traditions. - It doesn't align with the "easy believism" notion, requiring repentance and the potential loss of salvation through mortal sin. - Some may prefer a view where salvation is solely attained through faith without additional requirements. 30:15 *❓ Common misunderstandings about the Catholic view of salvation* - Misconceptions exist regarding the Catholic Church's stance on earning salvation through good works. - The faith-alone formula is often misunderstood, despite historical usage within Catholic theology. - Clearing up these misunderstandings helps foster better dialogue and understanding between Catholics and Protestants. 37:51 *🤝 Disagreements with other views on salvation* - Contrasts the Catholic view with Lutheranism, particularly on the possibility of regaining salvation after loss. - Rejects the notion of "easy believism" and emphasizes the necessity of repentance and baptism. - Justification is viewed as a multifaceted process, involving past, present, and future aspects. 41:30 *😊 Satisfaction with the Catholic view of salvation* - Belief in the truthfulness of the Catholic view is a primary reason for satisfaction. - The view aligns with personal spiritual needs and provides a sense of fulfillment. - Confidence in the theological coherence and historical validity of the Catholic perspective contributes to satisfaction. 42:04 *🤔 Absence of struggles with Christian faith* - No significant struggles with Christian beliefs, including reconciling faith with other disciplines like science. - Views faith and reason as complementary, with both playing essential roles in understanding truth. - Recognizes tensions between Christian teachings and secular perspectives but finds resolution through study and reflection. 44:44 *📢 Awareness of the Catholic view of salvation among churchgoers* - Emphasizes the prevalence and historical continuity of the Catholic perspective within Christianity. - Encourages understanding and acceptance of the Catholic view, especially among Protestant communities. - Aims to foster charitable dialogue and mutual respect regarding differing views on salvation. 46:42 *🔍 Explanation of initial and final justification in Catholic theology* - Discusses the concepts of initial, ongoing, and final justification in Catholic theology. - Initial justification occurs through repentance, belief, and baptism, leading to a state of grace. - Final justification involves the culmination of the Christian life, where God rewards believers for their cooperation with grace. 53:43 *📜 Explanation of Abraham's multiple justifications* - Abraham experienced multiple justifications in Scripture. - Genesis 15 is not Abraham's conversion but an example of ongoing justification. - James 2 also mentions Abraham's justification when he offered Isaac, indicating multiple justifications aligning with the understanding of salvation as a process. 01:00:02 *🧑🏫 Differentiating between theologians and apologists* - An apologist defends a position, often related to faith, while a theologian reflects on God's revelation to understand it. - The term "apologist" derives from the Greek word "apologia," meaning to speak from a position. - "Theology" originates from Greek roots meaning "discussion of God," referring to reflecting on God's revelation. 01:02:32 *🕊️ Salvation for unbaptized children and the concept of Limbo* - The Bible doesn't explicitly address the fate of unbaptized children, leading to theological speculation. - The concept of Limbo was historically considered a place for unbaptized infants, but it's been revisited in light of God's mercy. - Various theories propose ways God's grace might reach unbaptized children, including through parental desire for their salvation or prayers of the Church. 01:10:04 *🤔 Exploring differences between Catholic and Protestant views on salvation* - Fundamental differences between Catholic and Protestant views on salvation vary across different denominations. - Some similarities exist, with both acknowledging ongoing justification and the role of grace in salvation. - Historical perspectives, theological nuances, and interpretations of key doctrines contribute to differing views on salvation. 01:18:37 *🚼 Baptizing children in the Catholic Church* - Baptizing children ensures God's grace in their souls from an early age. - Reasons for baptizing children include avoiding the risk of death and instilling God's grace in their souls. - Challenges arise when children baptized in the faith do not receive proper Christian education or upbringing. 01:20:16 *💒 Factors influencing nominal adherence to Christianity* - Societal trends against Christianity affect both Catholics and Protestants, contributing to nominal adherence. - Lack of proper Christian education and cultural influences lead to nominal adherence to the faith. - Historical perspectives on societal reception of Christianity influence present-day adherence. 01:22:51 *🏫 Strategies for church involvement and adherence* - Churches vary in their approaches to involvement, with some adopting exclusionary practices based on devotion levels. - Catholic Church emphasizes maintaining members' identities and involvement despite varying levels of devotion. - Comparison between highly devout congregations and those with broader inclusivity highlights different strategies for fostering faith.
Great conversation. I was hoping you would talk about the Eucharist for the very last one but it's a minor detail. Loved it. Thank you again for everything you do!
Thank you Jimmy, this was very inspiring and informative as you give great explanations on these topics and I really enjoyed listening. Also the family whose questions made it a great talk. God bless you all. 👐👐🕯🕯🕯
I am always taken aback whenever non-Catholic Christians ask if I ever feel God’s presence. They seem to believe Catholics don’t feel God’s presence. It may be because they attend weekly church services with hour-long praise and worship, with highly emotive music that brings people to tears, hands raised.
This was a good talk, I really enjoyed all this kind of forum interview. I hope you have more episodes like this. One thing I that think that would be worth clarifying for your last question about devotion is that the big tent approach of acceptance is not acceptance in the sense that many use it, that is, in the sense that we accept the sin. Rather, it is in the sense that we accept the person, not the sin, while still calling for repentance. Acceptance in my former protestant background would have implied accepting the sinner and the sin, which would be more like what the episcopal and other more liberal communities often do where they change their teachings to accommodate sin. That's what almost might have been implied by your last answer from the backg I come from and many might be tempted to have taken it that way, even though I'm sure it's not what you meant from listening to your other stuff.
Thank you Jimmy for being so gracious and kind with your answers. I pray to have the grace to learn to not take offense. I am truly happy that this family is interested and asking questions.
@@_ready__ in the words of Steve Ray , Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. That is Catholicism in a nutshell. Then, explain that the word Believe is an umbrella to several other words, like, obey, persevere, call upon the name of the Lord, etc. Share the Gospels. Explain the life of Jesus Christ and the over 300 prophecies that He fulfilled. Explain that there is a God who loves us and created us and all things. When man was disobedient and lost paradise, He became man, one of us , and He suffered, and died so that we may attain paradise and He rose from the dead and He will receive us into paradise if we believe in Him and do as He commands, and follow His lead. If we stay close to Him, He will be our guide.
@@row1landr that’s not what the cathehism says. See #2068. Of course, I disagree. It’s not belief in his name or who he is but what he did and we are no longer under the law but under Grace. The RCC would try to keep you under the law. Believe in the gospel of Christ as written here. It’s all right here -> 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (KJV) 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: Grace and peace ✌🏼
@@halleylujah247 hello and thanks for the question. 1st of all I believe if someone sees the question as a gotcha question they probably are not sincere about their faith and/or other people and their salvation …. Or maybe just do not understand the seriousness of being saved or NOT. So a few things: The question is - How do you get to heaven? This question gets to the heart of the matter. A person whether they are saved, unsaved, a priest, whoever …. When ask this question it really gets down to what they believe. A priest or preacher can speak for 10 - 30 minutes and you hear a certain message they want to deliver but when ask how do you get to heaven - it gets down to what they really believe and then you can determine if you should listen to them anymore? They may not actually understand the Word of God. Do you? So … 1. If the other person is sincere about their beliefs they will usually respond kindly. 2. If they are proud they may respond but really flippant. Those are usually ignorant of their religion. I almost always know more than they do as I have studied the RCC for a long time and I was one! 3. Many times I run into really sincere folks who are interested in others and this is usually a great conversation…. 4. And very important to me is - I always learn from others that respond and it helps me refine my approach, especially with Catholics. Me learning from others is a huge reason I like to ask the question. When I run into someone on the street I already know the drill so I am able to understand and anticipate what will occur next in the conversation. 5. And of course the most important thing of all is that folks need to hear the truth and get saved before it’s too late. They are not receiving the truth in the so called one true church. That religion does not understand the Bible. How about you? How do you plan on getting to heaven - what do you believe is required? Thanks again for responding. Grace and peace
So cool! I loved this, and I learned something new. Thank you for showing us Apologetics in action! I would love to know their thoughts about what you taught them...what they said when the camera went off.
Hi Wynter. In the video, I am the guy in the front row with the red sweater. I lead the group, and part of our discussion is to do a debrief in which the group will engage in an open dialogue with each other (but Jimmy will not be present). That debrief will take place in just a handful of days, and I’m interested to hear what my group thinks of what Jimmy shared.
@@robwassler5774 My brother thanks so much for doing this. I do hope you find the catholic faith interesting to keep an open mind and heart and that one day you can all join the church for it is so beautiful and is the fulfillment of the faith. But even if it does not lead to that what you did with the group and Jimmy was so awesome and these dialogues give me so much hope that one day, we can all be one like Jesus prays in John 17
@@vorlando0719 - Absolutely! One of my hopes and prayers is that someone watching this video will feel a spark to proactively ask different people on what they believe and why. Doing so is one way to watch the Holy Spirit do some incredible work.
I would love to have a session with Jimmy or maybe someone like David Anders and pick their brain about how certain protestant traditions and practices developed including the altar call, sinner's prayer, a one-time decision for Christ and the Protestant use of the term 'born again' for example. I have done a fairly good study of such origins especially by David Anders. I'm getting a clearer understanding but it would be great to get some helpful clarification from men like Jimmy or David in a one on one session.
On the question of kids not showing fruits, confirmation is the opportunity for Catholic youth to profess their faith. Unfortunately many see that as the finish line and not a milestone in their faith journey. Parents have the primary responsibility of educating their kids in the faith…those kids not showing fruits likely don’t have parents who are active in their church.
Hey Jimmy, from what I recall, in the joint declaration, Catholics and Lutheran do not share exactly the same view, although it is a pretty close one. I think I remember that Lutherans do not share our view of cooperative grace in every stage of salvation. Am I wrong? The fact that you debated Cooper on salvation shows that Lutheran and catholics do not have EXACTLY the same view right?
I'm watching bits by bits as I can. Was the purpose for understanding what Christ's Church teaches for the "crowd" to discover the Catholic Church? In other words, are they looking for conversion ?
No, they've been doing a Bible study on the book of Romans and have invited multiple speakers from different perspectives to explain their view of salvation to them as a way of having a good frame of references/possibilities for interpreting the book. Getting the lay of the intellectual landscape like that when seeking to understand a topic is a good idea!
Jimmy you said that Lutherans and Catholics have basically the same view, I watched a video with a Catholic and a Lutheran, and it seems to me there are Catholic apologists out there that would heavily disagree with you, and they parse out these differences with a lot of nuance and confidence. Could we lose a bit when we try to simplify things as Soteriology in these discussions? And would you disagree with this future Scholar in this video? The video is called "Justification - a dialogue between Roman Catholicism and Lutheranism feat. Militant Thomist",
From the Lutheran side, not all Lutherans are of this view, but the majority of the Lutheran communion subscribed to the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification. From the Catholic side, I think I'll go with Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI--who was behind the final work on the Joint Declaration--on this one.
Jimmy ~ you might have mentioned, there at the end, that you encounter God’s presence every day (or every time you attend Mass) in the Holy Eucharist ~ the last question implies perhaps an assumption that we don’t experience His presence …. Sigh ~ where could they possibly have gotten such an idea? Assuming this is true ~ Oh But I guess that would be off topic ~ have to narrow the scope or this could go on awhile ~ I was very impressed by their good composure ~
Even as a former Protestant, I'm having a difficult time understanding some of their questions. You handled them (the questions) with your usual aplomb.
Around 22:30 I think you misspoke and said “first John” rather than “John.” I only mention this because I think these folks were writing down the references.
maybe he can explain how to pray other people after they have passed away out of purgatory. and where this is found in the bible maybe a explanation of how Jesus and his sacrifice wasn’t enough
Hebrews 9:13-14 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the sprinkling of a heifer's ashes can sanctify those who are defiled so that their flesh is cleansed, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works (works that lead to death) to worship the living God. 2 Thessalonians 1: 5 This is evidence of the just judgment of God, so that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God for which you are suffering. 2 Thessalonians 1:11 To this end, we always pray for you, that our Lord may make you worthy of his calling and powerfully bring to fulfilment every good purpose and every effort of faith. 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 But we ought to give thanks to God for you always, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits* for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this end he has also called you through our gospel to possess the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. I believe "To this end" means full/final/ultimate salvation because the verse implies that possessing the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ is futuristic. If God had already declared us "saved" we would then have already possessed the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ which obviously we don't yet - for one our faces do not shine brilliantly with light. On the Lord's part he has fully provided for our salvation but we also have our part to play as St Augustine said: "God doesn't save us without us." I have no doubt that we can possess the glory of our Lord Jesus inwardly. * The New International Version says " because God chose you to be saved. " Very enlightening, thank you very much Jimmy.
Child baptism entails the duty of the parents, the god parents and consequently the whole church brother. That is the beauty of God’s design. It gives the parents, god parents and the church to merit. That is precisely why we answer for the child. Then in our church we have the confirmation where in about 12 years old the child is deemed to be ready to fly on his own.
What has been shared here has brought to light something that had eluded me for a very long time. Why is it that Evangelicals are so adamant that baptism is only a sign, and not necessary for salvation? What I have seen for the first time is that Evangelical doctrine was inspired by a visceral need to contradict Catholic theology (if indeed that is the position of the Catholic Church) I agree that baptism is not a requirement for salvation, but death is required to get out from under the law where sin is no longer imputed. (Romans 7:1) Baptism provides a very good option, a shadow of death, in that it comes prepackaged with resurrection (Romans 6:4) The Evangelical's support their doctrine by the example of the thief on the cross, who believed but had no opportunity to be baptized, yet Jesus told him they would meet later in paradise. Well, the thief believed in Jesus, his confession was made, and he died. Yes, even physical death qualifies as death. He was brought out from under the law. He was a one-talent servant of God, but that one talent gained many by being published in the book that enjoyed the widest distribution ever. The work that God began in him was continued and will continue until the day of Jesus Christ. His account will remain open and talents will continue to pour in. He will likely end up with one talent in the given column, but millions in the gained column. I want to be his friend.
13:10 I think your mitigation of the sin of theft to not be grave based on the wealth, or lack of wealth, of the victim misses also the wounding of our own conscience that occurs when we commit such sins. I don't see precedent in Church teaching for saying that it would not be grave if the victim can afford it. I do see some precedent, although far from unanimous, that stealing to save one's own life or the life of a loved one can mitigate the gravity to only venial, but even that is debated in Church history and has magisterial support on both sides from what I've seen. I don't personally think the wealth or lack of wealth of the victim necessarily mitigates the gravity, other circumstances along with that might, but not in and of itself.
If I was asked to send someone to an evangelical bible study (I don't know why someone would ask me to send someone. Just go with it) I would send Jimmy.
Hi Jimmy! Thank you so much for this video. I have been offering to do something similar with small groups from local Baptist churches for some time. May I ask if this was a single family or a small group from a church? I have more questions, but perhaps they would be better discussed by email if you are willing.
@@_ready__ Since Jimmy addressed this thoroughly in the video, I suggest that you watch the video and interact with what he said. In addition, stick close to the all the data we have from Scripture that addresses this question. God bless you.
@@daniels3537 thanks for the reply. So if a random person on the street ask you today. How do I get to Heaven. Will you tell them - go watch Jimmy and search the scriptures!?!
@@_ready__ Friend, you are not a random person but a commenter in a combox attached to a video that answers the very question you are posing to me and to others. If your question is honest, you are already in the right place to receive an answer. Watch Jimmy’s video and engage what you hear. God bless you in your journey.
My view as a Catholic is that it is almost impossible to converse with Protestants on such subjects and ideas with the main problem being there is no real Protestant anything since the theology changes from one church to the next one down the block and given the non-denominational or fluid state of affairs of church hopping among the Protestants I have seen, everything is a moving target and for the most part everyone is often tacitly his or her own pope. I mean just look at what is taught from Episcopalians and Anglicans of 10,000 theologies versus all the countless other groups. It is a sad statement that people do not answer the prayer of Jesus in the garden, especially when I think of the countless things Protestants never knew or dismiss out of hand from Catholics. Tragic for all the world.
This just means one has to be ready to dialogue with more than one kind of person. Dialogue is still possible, one just needs to be attentive to the views of the individuals that one is trying to serve. 😊
@@_ready__ well, if you felt it is a question not yet answered in this beautiful dialogue, I would stay, one gets to heaven through faith, hope, and charity. Charity being the greatest (as St Pual said) since charity entails both faith and hope (as Jimmy aptly explicate). (Summed up: through right relationship with God)
It's not that hard to ask someone questions about what they believe and then ask challenging questions about those beliefs. It just take more time and patience.
@@jimmydavid1993 but how do you get into a right relationship with God. The other things you mentioned were things you intend to do. What’s the gospel of Christ?
Your formula of Repent, Believe, and Be Baptized seems to miss being filled with the Spirit, which we see in the New Testament as another important step in the Christian initiation both in Acts 2, the story in Acts where Paul and John have to baptize in the Spirit those who were not properly baptized by Apollos. I realize that part of that was because the baptism of John was not sacramental, but it seems that confirmation was also included in this process as the reception of the Spirit and thought of as an essential part of Christian initiation. This is seen as well in the early Church that never separated confirmation from the initiation like the West does today. I'm a Catholic, so I am in no way invalidating the modern Western practice of moving confirmation to later in life, but the practice can make it easy to miss and forge that this was considered an essential part of Christian initiation in Scripture and the early Church up to the middle ages and still is, but is often mistakenly not thought of that way. As an aside, for that reason among a plethora of others, I personally advocate bringing Chrismation back to be something done immediately after baptism, regardless of age. Why deny our Children graces like that?
Christ be with you I think it is a mistake to suggest works flow from salvation. it gives people the impression that can sit back and just wait for them to happen. St Paul tells us we must overcome the flesh (Gal 5:16-21) St James , temptation (James 1:12-16) and St John the world. And while it is God's Grace not works that save us St Paul is quite clear we will not receive eternal life without them (Gal 6:7-9) That would be mocking God. And we see that the first work, the first act of obedience we must perform to receive God's Grace, the forgiveness of sin is to be baptised (Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:21) God bless you
I am disappointed when I hear a RC apologist defend baptismal regen. as if only Rome has a view on the topic. I would like to hear a defense of the Roman 'ex opera operato' view of baptism that references the entirety of 1 Peter 3.21, especially the qualifier "... not the washing of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience..." I cant see how the Roman view is not excluded by this oft ignored phrase and am troubled when this verse is cut out of the conversation. Seems much more conducive to the Lutheran and historic Baptist views. Honest question and with respect, I am really interested in how 'ex opera operato' is defended from 3.21 and wish the Prot views would at least be acknowledged. Respect.
Good to have such opportunities to discuss, but also disappointed that a Bible study group can allow Jimmy to get away with half quoted verses such as "baptism now saves you" (1Peter 3:21), he conveniently leaves out the word figuratively and "not the removal of filth, but the answer to good conscience towards God". Key verses that also also talks of repentance happening before baptism follows, are ignored (Romans 10:9,10 Acts 16:31) and for me I see Philip the evangelist baptizing those that had believed Acts 8:1 , Acts 8:35-38 and Paul prioritised preaching so that people believed (1 Corinthians 1:17). while it can indeed be argued that many of the early fathers preached baptismal regeneration, for me scriptural evidence comes first and I find the direct words of the Lord Jesus most assuring (John 3:18) . This counts more than a ton of nice things that the Roman Catholic church would rather prescribe.
It's not on going justification it's ongoing sanctification two separate things different works of God in the person. Due to their faith in God's promises. It says when Abraham was first Justified when God first chose him to be the father of many nations that was not a cooperation promise it was a declaratory announcement I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will harden whom I will harden before Abraham and even knew him or done any good or evil God chose him before the foundation of the world.
If you can lose your salvation then your salvation is of works and the Bible says that we are justified by faith apart from works, Ephesians 2:8-9. Also, the Bible says that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30. Another point Salvation is also referred to as being born again into the family of God and one cannot be unborn. (John 3:16, John 1:12-13, Romans 8:15,... ) Therefore you cannot lose, give away, or work away your Salvation. It's in God's hands (John 10:28). Praise the Lord!
Your argument depends on using the term "works" as a synonym for "actions." However, this is not the sense in which St. Paul uses it. He considers "works" and "works of the Law" as actions done in order to obey the Mosaic Law. That is why he refers to circumcision, Jewish identity, etc., in the relevant passages (including Ephesians, where he discusses how Jews and Gentiles are now *both* part of the body of Christ). If we mistakenly equated works with any and all actions, then your view also would be "salvation by works," because one must have faith, and faith is an action. It would thus count as a "work."
@@JimmyAkin I would respectfully disagree that faith is a work. Though you've given me something to think about. I am intrigued by your position on Eschatology and Revelation.
@@PhilGeissler Regarding works, I also would disagree that faith is a work. One therefore needs to restrict the definition of "works" to only a subset of actions. The question is: "Which subset?" The answer is found by examining the context in St. Paul: He's referring to actions done in order to fulfill the Mosaic Law. Glad you found the discussion of eschatology and revelation interesting. God bless you!
Christ be with you *you say* If you can lose your salvation then your salvation is of works and the Bible says that we are justified by faith apart from works, Ephesians 2:8-9. *response* The faith talked about By St Paul in Eph 2:8-9 must uphold the Law. Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (Rom 3:31) Upholding the Law of Christ does not pay for the Grace we receive for that was paid by Christ it is required for us to receive that Grace for he will give it to those who obey him.. Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through what he suffered; and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, (Heb 5:8-9) *You say* Also, the Bible says that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30. *response* If you keep reading you will see that those who are sealed with the Holy Spirit are warned not to grieve him with Sin or they will not inherit Gods Kingdom. *And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.* Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, with all malice, and be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you. Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. *But immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints.* Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving. *Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.* (Eph 4:30-5:5) *you say* Another point Salvation is also referred to as being born again into the family of God and one cannot be unborn. *response* I do not know where you get this term unborn St Paul tells us even under grace if we obey sin we will die, 56What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? (Rom 6:15-16) *you quote* John 3:16, John 1:12-13, 5,... *response* You need to read more of the bible. John 3:16-21 tells us that unbelievers are those who stay in darkness and sin and will be condemned while beleivers come to the light and do works of God. In 1 John 3:10 St John tells us how we recognize the Children of God that is spoken about in John 1:12-13. It is those who do right and love one other, and with rom 8:15 you ave missed what came before it that tells us if we live according to the flesh we will die. We must be led by the spirit. No one of these tell us faith alone or OSAS but that we must do right and live according to Christ teaching. *you say* Therefore you cannot lose, give away, or work away your Salvation. It's in God's hands (John 10:28). *response* Sorry as you can see those verses you give when we look at the context they are given do tell us we can lose our salvation. those who are in Gods hands are those who hear his word and follow him, those who do as he teaches. *My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;* and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:27-28) again we see it is those who live according to Christ teaching that are being spoken of Come to Christ
How many 'slacker' baptized baptists and protestants of all stripes have I seen? Hordes. All Christians must form their children and be the example of faith, as the saints are the example of faith, as Jesus is the ultimate example. Strange critique the evangelicals brought.
Why do you need to make it complicated for the case for faith? See Ephesians 2:4-10. James 2: 14-26; Galations 2: 16-21. For reference, I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic schools, was an alter boy, got confirmed. But I was not saved, even though I part8cipated in all of the "rituals / sacrements". I became "Born-Again" later after high school and received the gift of the Holy Spirit who revealed scripture for my understanding and proved Himself many times to me. I am not one who says that Catholics are not Christians. I found that Charismatic Catholics that I know are usually Holy Spirit filled usually.
Yes, the people were nice. But the Roman Catholic faith is the one true faith and I don't see why Jimmy or anyone has to talk so much about Protestantism, about their history, to give examples, to talk about their founders, and so on. At Vatican II we began by bowing to them, wanting their approval, and that is precisely what has caused so many problems in contemporary Catholicism. Jimmy is indeed very charitable and very knowledgeable. He's a great guy. However, I believe it's also important to emphasize the truth of Catholicism a bit more.
They genuinely asked about the Catholic faith. Being welcoming is a good quality to show at this point, which Jimmy did. Beating them over the head with how wrong they are serves no purpose.
Because not everyone starts out believing that the Catholic Church is the one true faith and are extremely skeptical and leery about Catholic beliefs and claims. There is such a thing as highly educated Protestants of conviction that will not “crack” easily.
The Roman Catholic faith and the Protestant reformed Christian religions are miles apart from the same. Christians views of salvation is as far apart as was Lutheran was from the Pope. That he called Satan himself. And it is the Solas! In The Armenian side and the Calvinists confirm are the true teachings of the true Christian faith . 1 faith alone, 2 grace alone,3 scripture alone,4 In Christ Alone,5 by God alone, which means no part of man or his will or his works, no merits earned, no Indulgence required, not even sacraments are required for one to be saved or stay saved. It's all and completely of God and the work of the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ
I'm baffled by the questions about advantages/disadvantages and how "pleased" a Catholic is with traditional soteriology. Unless your fundamental intellectual framework is hedonism, that line of questioning seems irrelevant.
They were a mostly Protestant group. I didn't take their questions as hostile, just seeking to understand from their perspective. I actually thought they were quite respectful and open in the attitudes they displayed. I've encountered REAL hostility elsewhere. ☺These people were very nice.
If by hostile you mean they probably don't believe all the same things Catholics do, I guess. I was actually impressed they were so nice. Maybe the fact that they were polling people with a variety of perspectives helped them not feel threatened by any one view.
We're justified by Christ's righteousness not our own, if we could be justified by doing our own righteousness and Obedience of the law, there wouldn't have been no reason for Christ dying for all our sins and imputing his righteousness to us or taking all our sins and putting them to death on the cross. And besides he said he died for all the sins of the world, all means all. And you are just repeating no he didn't die for all the sins of the world present and future.
@@_ready__ hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, (I think we would agree we need faith to be justified) act 2:38And Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, (to receive the forgiveness of sins, and the gift of the Holy Spirit. We have to be baptized) Luke 13:3
