F-104G EFM (Pre-Release) Intercepting and Air-to-Air Combat Tutorial - Release Date Oct 15 

Yes it was a rocket. The pilots that I knew that flew it said exactly the same: "it was like trying to fly an overpowered rocket with tiny wings. It wasn't a bad plane - just the most unforgiving. As long as you flew it straight and fast everything was fine, as soon as you had to manouver you had to watch for every vibration or you could go into pieces in seconds." (direct quote). At least that was our (Italian) experience.

Good video. FYI there is a flap/slat setting that will allow a 104 to beat an F-5 in a knife fight. Had a friend the flew a F-104 at Nellis for DACT training (MiG-21 simulation). First DACT lesson for F-15 pilots at the time was against the F-104. Most F-15 pilots would go vertical and the F-104 would stay right with them. If fact he complained he had to slow the F-104 down in the vertical to keep the F-15 in the gun sight. :-) It was a good first lesson for the Eagle drivers to see a picture of them in the F-104's gunsight. Second story: The Red Flag guys were at the Officer club and the Top Gun Instructors were there and a "discussion" centered how the TG guys in their F-5 could beat all comers in a knife fight. So a bet was made. Navy asked what they would be flying and when told F-104 they laughed their asses off. Next day, they met and the F-104 was able to latch into the F-5's tail and stay there. Studying the manual he had found a the Flap/slats could be down at a high speed that gave it an amazing turn rate. It became standard training for the F-104 (I think only the Italians were still flying them at the time). The way you flew in the video was perfect for how to fly and dominate in the F-104. My friend would be proud, he sure loved the F-104.

The 104 is one of my favorite fighters and is under-represented in flight sims, so I'm super excited for the EFM update. I was inspired to learn how to make missions when I saw that this was coming out, so I'll be releasing some and hopefully there will also be some multiplayer servers who enable the mod so we don't all have to fly it alone! Also hoping for that awesome-looking NF-104A mod to become available, I have plans for it.

Excellent, Excellent video GVad. I'd like to add a little to the F-104 experience. My father flew the CF-104 (+CF-5, RF-4C, and many others) out of CFB Cold Lake. Was an IP and Demo pilot the summers of 70', 71' and spring of 72'. Was gone all the time doing airshows all over North America and gave this up when I was born in the base hospital June of 72'. As an IP, he would take students up in a CF-104D with tip tanks on a max performance climb, leveling off (not zoom climb) at 40,000 ft in 90 seconds. T/O flaps or maneuver flaps are good to 550 kts or M1.8. Love to see you re-fly the mission using the T/O flaps with turning with the 21. The CF-104 used the -7 J79 giving it 15,800 lbs thrust. The S model used the -19 J79, giving it 18,900 lbs of thrust. Have the devs read the article by Walt BJ called "Ruminations of the F-104"? 73,000 ft, M2.0 with 3/4 AB sipping 100 lbs of fuel a minute. This article is eye-watering to say the least as to the true performance of the 104. Have you read the article by Andy Bush about 2v1, F-104s against the F-15?

Thanks for this. I'm an old Cold Warrior, army brat, lived in Germany and Okinawa, two tours in Vietnam, and I built all the plastic models. The F-104 has always been my favorite since I was a teenager, but I never knew why until now. I really like your presentation style.

Did you know that the leading edge of the F-104's wings were so sharp, they had to put guards on them when the planes were parked so people wouldn't accidently slice themselves on them?

Glad the algorithm brought me here, your narration techniques, speaking voice, and topic knowledge are outstanding. This is a great topic to be expanded upon, showing exactly what these majestic birds were built to do, but were thankfully never called upon to carry out. Im hopeful for the aircraft in DCS. Please, you've got a knack for this, keep the videos coming!

My father was a F104 pilot. so this is what he did every day? cool!

When the team is happy with the 104, let them know I’d love an English Electric Lightning too!

Someone who knows exactly what the 104 was built to do. Very nice piloting

Just for the historical correctness: Fighterbomberwing 32 in Lechfeld was always a pure air-to-ground wing which is also emphasized through the bomb carried by an eagle in the wing crest. Its neighbour wing though, Figher Wing 74 in Neuburg (Donau) was (and still is, with Eurofighters today) the designated air defense wing for southern Germany. Two more minor debriefing points. a) the 104 (at least the german ones) never had a HUD and b) the 104 always deployed their drag chute after landing to preserve the brakes.

Remember as well, when I was a kid of 13, on vacation in Germany, Swarzwald, 1974. To German F 104's came in a rapid decent, to have a fly - over the hotel we stayed.... I could see clearly see one of the pilots watch me. I was jumping and yelling, hahaha, of pure excitement!

From everything I've ever heard about the F-104, this was the story. Lockheed's chief of design Kelly Johnson talked to pilots returning from tours in the Korean War, flying F-86 against Mig-15s. Their biggest complaint was that the Sabre did not have the speed or altitude capability to catch the Migs, who would only engage when they had every advantage. In case you don't know, the Mig-15 was slightly slower than the Sabre, but it was lighter and could fly at a higher altitude. To paraphrase them, "Give us the speed and altitude we need and we'll knock down every Mig in the sky!" They were willing to forgo maneuverability for that. So Kelly said he would give them all the speed and altitude they could handle. So no, it was not a great dogfighter. It's short wings didn't allow it to sustain turns, and it's high mounted horizontal stabilizer could cause a pitchup at high angles of attack. The strategy was to come in fast, shoot, zoom, immelmann and do it again. You keep the enemy below you, not letting them get a clean shot, and just keep using speed and altitude. Basically the same strategy that P-38 pilots used against Zeroes in WW2. The original design of the F-104 did not even include radar. It was a day fighter. When the US Air Force got fed up with it, Lockheed sold it outside the US, and the version the Germans and Italians made where basically interceptors, and of course were fitted with radar and Sparrow missiles. But that was not their original intent.

Great video, I am glad there is someone using this aircraft as it was meant to be. It would be great to see some more complex scenarios, such as escorted bombers intercepted by 2 or 4 F-104s, or protecting bombers from F104 interception. Great work, keep it going.

Technically concise and expertly performed. Really useful viewing, thanks mate!

The last F-104's I seen flying was back in the early 1980's at Edwards AFB, California flown by NASA and they were painted all white with the NASA logo on there side's. Like your video .

Awesome!! Please note: Take off envelope to avoid hydraulic failure is: Nose up attitude at 150 knots, v2 at 170 knots, gear up and locked latest at 205 knots. Best, André

I grew up watching them fly from the local NATO base in Araxos Greece and that’s what made me fall in love with aviation… what a rocket…

Thank you for a very informative and extremely well made video. My hats off to you....not only do you show what you are doing, you explain why you are doing it.

Games like war thunder will never do aircraft like the F-104 and the English Electric Lightning any justice. I'm glad to see DCS is capable of showing them for the capable interceptors they are, fulfilling the purpose they were built for.

Excellent video! Love the fact that you showed the actual role of this iconic fighter rather than try to make it do something it wasn't designed to do and then claim that it sucks....

Greek AF used those rockets to defend against Turkish hostility over the Aegean sea till 1993. I still remember these noisy rocket flying over my house. Nice video

One of the BEST VIDEOS i have watched. I really appreciate the "Instructor Type" narrative you gave in this video. I would want to see more of these from you. Keep making them.

My biggest hope is that this will become an official module for DCS, would love to see it with full system support.

Thanks for the lesson. Astounding plane. Did not know it's true role till you described it.

Awesome. Yet another example that modern combat a/c are more akin to rockets with wings (or control surfaces if you wish) than anything us civilian pilots would ever be so lucky to have our hands on. Fantastic insight, thanks for that.

Outstanding Work!!!! A lot of people just don't understand what the F-104 was meant to do

Nice to see you giving the F-104 credit for performing its design role correctly. The F-104 is a similar design to the MiG-21: both are point defense interceptors. Neither are dogfighters. Stay far, far away from that bomber stinger. Looks like DCSW hasn't implemented it anyway. Without missiles, you're not likely to kill bombers with a gun. Their defensive armament will see to that. It's hardly likely that the F-104 (or MiG-21, for that matter) will ever likely see their counter-part as a bomber escort. Both are waaay too short ranged for that..

In the 70's, I lived nearby Volkel, an airbase in the Netherlands. The sound of the F 104 was tremendous! See them start and lift off, passing by, and ofcourse the Sonic Boom. Nowadays they don't do that anymore. I haven't heard that Boom for a long time. Once, above Den Bosch, where I was at school, 12 F 104 came over the city...Our teacher had to stop talking... we didn't hear nothing more than just that roaring thunder!

Wow. What a nice vid. I was wondering if somebody would show how the F-104 was meant to be used. Really good how-to :-)

I learned so much about the F-104 from this video. Thank you. I am really appreciating this plane now

I loved the very unique sound of the *F-104.* And thx to GVad, now i know why this cigar is called *"Starfighter."*

Your tone, pacing and the information you select to present is excellent. No fat on the video, great to watch.

Appreciate the perspective on how doctrine truly made this design happen, since we're looking back at it with so much difference in the American air doctrine.

While I was stationed in Germany I loved laying in the grassy fields with my German girlfriend watching the F104 fly in the blue skies above me it was such a beautiful airplane

Very nice, my father was first maintenance person for the F-104 at the JaBo 32 Lechfeld.

Totally new territory for DCS and flight sims in general; F-104 performance. One of the most important gauges is the Mach Meter. Would be incredible to superimpose the following 4 gauges in the corners of the screen: 1. Mach Meter 2. Fuel Flow 3. Fuel Quantity 4. Altimeter According to the charts, the 104 burns 350 lbs a minute at Mach 2 @ 35,000ft. What was your fuel flow when you engaged the 21? 250 lbs a minute? There is absolutely nothing like this in DCS or history, and keeping the jet within specific and tight parameters, guarantees success in its role as an interceptor. Honestly GVad, can't wait now to see the S model launch an AIM-7 at Mach 2 at 70,000ft. Will be able to outrange any AMRAAM fired at a "slow mover" at "low altitude". Cheers!

Awesome. Glad to see the Starfighter get some love. The only unrealistic part is that you didn't crash on landing! ROFL. Pilot trivia: You never crash a plane until you get REALLY close to the ground. Ha ha.

Keep it high, keep it fast! What a fantastic plane! Great job, GVad!

Watched this 4-5 times now. This video will shatter all myths and negative press about this jet since 1958. @ 7:22, climbing at 40 degrees, M1.1, nose up AND ACCELERATING. Shmoeley! Once at 45,000ft, look at the Mach! And this is with the G model (16,000 lbs thrust). The S model with 17,500/18,900 lbs thrust will massively eclipse this. My father was limited to nuclear strike on the deck; 540 kts under 100 ft and of course when "clean" (shhhh... its a secret) took it out over 700kts @ 50 ft, but never trained in the high altitude, high Mach environment as shown here. Please, more content like this and, be sure to drop T/O flap in the turns to add an extra 1G and decrease radius. Will be interesting to see how much drag and speed loss T/O flaps applies.

This guy is a stone cold killer. Excellent knowledge SA and execution.

F104 wasnt developed as a interceptor for Bombers, it end up been good in this task because of its light weight and powerfull engines, but it lacked the radar and missiles for a headon attack when introduced. The design was created after talking with F86 pilots in Korea where most asked for a faster plane that could fly higher and climb fast, simples as that, at least the 104s that served as it was supposed, as a pure fighter.

I wanted to say... the F 104's wing was SUPER THIN !

Same for landing: Flaps 1 between 450 and 205 knots, Flaps 2 not before entering max. 205 knots, approach at 180 knots, slowing down, keep min 88 percent RPM, TD at 155 knots at that fuel status. Best André

This is really cool.. I have always kind of hated the F-104 just based on aesthetics alone, but seeing you guys showcase the plane in this light definitely gets me interested.

The F-104 out-fought everything from that time period. Computer simulations have shown that the faster jet did much better during the age of guns, since it could control the pace of the fight, leaving and re-entering battle as desired. I have like 10 F-104 books, but they all seem to have the same pictures. Art books have provided me a much-needed escape from real life. When life was difficult I'd set up my easy chair with coffee, a desk lamp and a stack of art books beside me. They kept me going during the hardest times. My art books are the best investments I ever made. My 3 favorite books are: - Wonderworks by Michael Whelan - Beyond the Horizon by John Harris - Great Fighter Jets of the Galaxy 1 by Tim Gibson

I'm Old enough to have seen the real F104-G flying from Twenthe AFB , and these planes made hell of a noise

Such a great little plane. Thank you for showcasing the mission it was intended for.

This is so cool! I was just saying to my flight SIM buddies that I wished DCS had the F104.

Fantastic manoeuvring, exploiting the strengths of the 104! Amazingly, looking an the flight manual and comparing the flight envelope curves, above 450knots the 104 G could turn with any F-4 B/C/D/K and N. The slatted phantom were slightly better below Mach 1 but above the speed of sound that the 104 was probably most agile plane of it's era, may be with the exception of the F106 which could partially overcome the moving of the aerodynamic centre by displacing the fuel inside the tanks.. The secret to do well with the 104 was energy- energy and energy again. Get slow and you are dead.

F-104 isn't just an interceptor but also a bomber itself. While it couldn't carry much in the way of payload, it didn't need to in the age of thermonuclear bombs (pre-ICBM era). I wonder if we'll see missions like this too, not just interception but ones that focus on its use as a nuclear deterrent.

BEAUTYFUL, the flying dart.

400kt base to final turn.....DCS players will take to that no problem. This plane is utterly mad.

Das Widow-Making Maschine. Die andere piloten never ran out of Poon Tang back in base, das for darn sure, Helmut!

wow... that was a masterclass !!!

My all time favorite fighter aircraft. It is a beautifully designed plane. Fun to see it's capabilities and limitations and how to adjust to win the fight.

Over the fence at 180kts. Damn....that's a machine.

Yep. We Germans totally violated that plane. Starting with an excellent clear sky high altitude high speed interceptor and forcing it into multi-role configurations including all weather ground attack... what could possibly go wrong? ^^ How do you get a Starfighter? Buy a plot of land next to an airbase and wait.

In a dogfight is the S.o.p for 104g is to use maneuver flaps and high speed

Well done! I really enjoyed the vid! I own every DCS plane and this will be mine as well. This video makes an exciting intro to the F105s new role in dcs.

Good video & nice tactics discussion. I was a little disappointed the Tu22M crew didn't enable the tail cannon, for whatever reason. That would probably have spoilt your day...

Finally! Someone who knows exactly what Kelly Johnsons favorite plane was designed for! Great 👍 job 👏

Love to see the F-104 and to even see it used in its doctrinal purpose.

Feels like the successor to the Me 163

Thank you for the perspective as to why the F104 was built. Thank you.

This is a great vdo taking about strategy on how to utilize the plane and how to bring enemy into the plane kill zone.

I love the no-bullshit commentary

A true timeless classic!

Thinking of one of my favourite movies... "The right stuff"...

Kelly Johnson's missile with a man in it. And yes, absolutely unforgiving. IIRC it was the West Germans that nicknamed it the Lawn Dart, for looks, and for what became of many of their F104's

JaboG 32, my Fighter-Bomber Wing!

FANTASTIC VIDEO.GREAT JOB!!!!!!!

enjoy seeing these, looking forward to flying this one.

Great vid, I hope they improve the panel and add in radar/weapon controls and the old sighting system that was used on the real planes.

I have bin wanting the 104 for soooo long. Thank u guys so much for the great mod and all of ur hard work. Thank u thank u.

The original fast and furious flyer!

Not how German 104's flew, but ok, whatever. Cycling in Germany and a German 104 came haring overhead at less than 250 feet being chased by a pair of American F4's, jinking for all it was worth but not just accelerating away from them like it could have. Disappeared over a ridge in the distance. About ~10 minutes later a solo F4 from the previous pair came screaming back over the ridge, going hell for leather, being chased by 5 104's. Someone had been playing Bait & Kill. It was glorious.

Thank you. Great Video, Love the F104 always have great to see it coming around. Thanks for training.

15:16 "go high into your comfort zone"... What about flaps? turn them on and see how "maneuverable" that plane is (if the flight model haas implemented it).

Great vid. Excellent tutorial. Thanks!

Love this plane. Remember them flying over from Soesterberg AFB in the netherlands back in the day when the Americans where there also flying the F15 and F4's (with the black smoke). Love to see this smoke on the F104. Long time ago. Getting old.. LOL

One crazy, wild plane.

Great job with this video, great explanation. Dying for this plane!

Very well done!!!

Great demo! This thing is like a good game of chess. Just plan and bide your time.

Outstanding video. Thanks very much!

Great video! Thanks, I hope we see more.

I'm impressed that this kept flying without any problems , Luftwaffe named this , flying coffin or widow producer

I really REALLY enjoyed this! Awesome commentary!

what a video!👍

This was awesome, I love the F104, it was really good to see how she was really suppose to be flown. You put some time and research into this. Great job! Would your flight profile change much if the Mug or any other AC have radar guided missiles?

When defending in turn fight, half 90° barrel roll downwards, nose up until you level up, go high speed under the pursuer (attacker), then nose up, go above him then plunge at him from above. If he fires missile at you, keep on going down until the missile catches the trajectory, then pull up and zoom out high to the sky.

very nice twist on the usual dcs encounters, looking forward to sering more

This looks amazing!

Staying in after burner for so long, I would think there wouldn't be enough fuel left for the mission after the climb. But hey, we're flying a sim.

I love this plane so much!! :)

Super cool video, thanks for sharing.

Really enjoyed your video, felt like I was there ! Thanks.

Tremendous video. Well done!

5:29 nice a nice camera angle