Hello Chris, I am HVAC Engineer Nice test but absolutely not relevant for the blowers Blower are designed for high static pressure, axial fans are absolutely not designed for static pressure. The measured airflow index (Speed) is probably wrong because your blowing on the center of the anemometer without a diffuser ideally you should measure the air intake of the fan or use a diffuser on the supply of the fan. If you want, I can design something Greetings from Belgium
It is relevant since it's a comparison between several identical fan styles, blower fans which output higher wind speeds will have higher static pressure. I worked for Lennox building blower fans, from 3 ton up to 30 ton units.
No because the reading are wrong depending on the speed and turbulence created against the anemometer, trust me if you want a clear reading measure the air intake
Check this excellent video for that: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-SX-okOHvh1Q.html Therefore the test in this video doesn't say much about part cooling. You need to test ducts for that.
Static pressure is a key characteristic for both hotend and part cooling fans due to their usage blowing through ducts (part fan) and through heat sinks (hotend). High static pressure is more important than high cfm flow
I was just about to hit the purchase button for a bunch of fans! Perfect timing! :) Love your vids, keep up the good work! My number 1 source for 3d printer knowledge.
I think there are 2 things you didn't take into account that make a lot of difference. The first is static pressure, which is where the blower fans will win. To make it a fair a fairer comparison make a smaller blower outlet (similar size to the blower output) and test the fans again. The second (which is very hard to test) is the type of bearings used. Some bearings will be very quiet initially but quickly become very noisy after a little use. So even though very cheap fans might perform great now, odds are that they won't stay that way for long. In any case, very nice and useful comparison. Thank you!
Chris, I can tell you devoted a lot of time and effort to this. I would like to see a review on the different fans used for part cooling. 40x10, 40x20 etc. I think most people are concerned about that since there are so many designs for that application
Something to keep in mind - airflow fans and pressure fans are fundamentally different. The typical 5015 nozzle part cooling fans are pressure fans, they aren't supposed to deliver a lot of airflow. On the other hand, axial fans are typically open enough that they don't have a way to counter backpressure, the air can slip right through them backwards. What happens when you drive an axial fan into a narrow funnel such as a part cooling nozzle, the airflow pretty much blocks up by vortices and backpressure, and they simply don't make enough static pressure to push through. You might get some air movement just a little bit on top speed, but not much. With centrifugal/radial fans, a lot more useful airflow remains. So maybe running the fans through a narrow constriction and then measuring the airflow could make for a valuable test? Also it can maybe be good to have measurements of each fan at different voltages, then you can fit a curve to each and compare them, maybe some fans will jump out as being particularly interesting. Though i guess apart from firmware PWM control, most people unlike me won't be willing to vary fan speed; me i have drawers full of adjustable regulators, so i don't mind. My 5015 fan that i got from an anonymous seller over 3 years ago is showing severe wear, it's still properly lubricated, but it has gained some bushing wear or maybe it's cracked, anyway it's now prone to vibration and extra noise. I have now ordered a Sunon MagLev MF5015VX as a replacement, it should be in the mail shortly... but i wonder whether i should have gotten a Delta or something instead.
Now this is an awesome video. Just one itsy bitsy enormous complaint. Lol. Music over the tests? db is only part of sound. That's where opinions differ greatly, not db but the actual sound. Something that runs 46 db may be more annoying or seem louder than one at 55db because of frequencies, vibrations, squealing, etc, it produces. That's why sound is so relative to those who hear it. I would seriously love to see this video reuploaded without the music over the tests. And if possible, each test labeled with the fan info, model, voltage, size, etc. We can see a lot of info by the image of the fans you added but some things are difficult to read. But hey, this is a badass video dude. I'd love to see even more fans compared. Part 2 perhaps? 😉 Keep it up dude. Much respect.. ~DCT
Thanks for the comment. That was a tough call, I thought it was a little boring without the music. I did post it without the music for my Patreon supporters. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5h4VztHoeEE.html
That's pretty good work with a decent overview on the noise/output differences between various brands and voltages. And makes for an excellent follow-up video with knowledge imparted in the comments. Test all the fans Chris!!!
That's awesome, I did a similar test myself with a anemometer comparing the stock 5v fans on my Lulzbots to Noctua 40mm fans. The Noctua fans output roughly 10% higher "wind speed" than the Pelonis fans. I have always bought Noctua fans without doing much research as I thought they were industry leading on the noise to output charts, now I know better!
This is an excellent roundup, but one thing I'm missing is any way to compare static pressure. Especially in high restriction scenarios, like parts cooling and restrictive heatsinks, that would make a big difference for fan choice. But I don't know if you have the equipment to do that. Still, this is a great and pretty comprehensive comparison.
The dirty way to measure static pressure when having fans go head to head is message a delection of a pivoting object. You won't get hard numbers but you get a way to compare fans against each other.
@@ChrisRiley Any interest in doing a slew of industrial fans? More Sunon, Delta, TDK/Lambda, Orion, etc..? I'd love to see how some of the cheaper industrial style fans compare to the ridiculousness of Noctua. I run a mix of Orion, Sunon, and Delta on all my printers and would argue its been one of my most rewarding upgrades.
I've been purchasing fans lately and my choice is sunon for 5015 blower, 60x10, and 40x10 but I also needed 3010 blowers but sunon doesn't make that size, I went with winsinn unfortunately since they were easily sourced and indeed they are not quite. I chose ball bearing for longevity, keep in mind ball bearing fans usually quite down after around 20 hours of use but aren't generally as quite as hydraulic or sleeve bearings. Nice video and I'm glad to see sunon get the recognition they deserve.
Chris, great as usual man! There's some folks within Voron Design group, working on cooling/ducting ideas, and their data mostly matches to what you found... Sunon are great for 3010/4010 axial, and, even tho you won't find them on OEM printers much, the Delta 24v 5015 is pricey, but is the best radial blower out there.
The difference in axial vs radial/blower is the latter will make flow at a greater path restriction than the former. The part cooling duct plenum will pressurize to increase velocity at the outlet. While Axial fans may move more air in open space, they will choke when coupled to a part cooling duct.
Chris -- I admire the amount of work you put in, but I think you only got part way to a satisfying result. The fans need to be blowing into a load (constriction) representative of their intended application. Fans produce some max flow rate into a low resistance (fan with no load), but progressively less flow rate as resistance increases (constriction) and hence also pressure increases. You measured essentially the max flow rate into low resistance, but did not explore the flow-rate versus pressure, or flow-rate versus resistance curves, which would be highly interesting, among other things demonstrating the contrasting merits of the axial vs radial fans. I could imagine revising your rig with an adjustable aperture downstream from the fan, as a start. And a pressure sensor would be informative too, along with monitoring the electrical current (and hence power), as an alternative assessment of the load. The flow rate measurement should be upstream from the fan, to avoid turbulence interacting with or caused by the geometry of the anemometer, though I'm not sure that's a major factor.
Wow thank you so much Chris. I knew that the Sunon are really good. I had better results with them. Everyone hypes Noctua but they don't have the same power... Amazing video and really cool data!
Pro tip: When I want to calculate CFM I go to the manufacturer's spec sheet and I read the value from the "CFM" column. 😉👍 (but I get it, that wouldn't make for a fun video)
The blower type fans, aka centrifugal fans, are designed to push air with brute force. They create high pressure which pushes the air out forcefully. This is advantageous for cases when the airflow path is not straight, thus you see it used in part cooling where the airflow is redirected through a duct. An axial fan may not create enough pressure to overcome the drag inside the duct, and thus reduced airflow for part cooling. Moreover, from my own experimentation, I found that cheaper fans produce a lot of tangential flow, which just circulates the air in a rotational motion instead of a linear axial flow which we want. This could easily be fixed by using a fan duct that straigtens the airflow, but then it adds extra parasitic drag and may interfere with the acoustics. My noctuas however produce airflow that is very straight right out of the box. I don't imagine this to be easy to test, but I presume that noctuas may perform better even though they deliver less airflow or static pressure.
The dB is on a logarithmic scale - +3 dB essentially doubles the intensity of the sound. On that basis are the Sunon dans still better than the Noctuas in terms of noise per flow rate? Also have you considered static pressure vs. Flow rate for axial vs blowers? Perhaps different requirements for both designs?
The blowers don’t compare because they have high static pressure. They flow much higher rates than the axial flans when the air is forced through a constricted duct or vent.
Very interesting! Lots of effort for this video for sure and greatly appreciated. I wonder how the numbers would look like for higher pressure applications, like the air having to exit through a narrower space like we have with the extruders. They say the blowers would win here.
remember that dB is a logarithmic scale. "An increase of 3dB doubles the sound intensity but a 10dB increase is required before a sound is perceived to be twice as loud. Therefore a small increase in decibels represents a large increase in intensity. For example - 10dB is 10 times more intense than 1dB, while 20dB is 100 times more intense than 1dB."
That also goes for human perception of sound. For example, a 20db sound will be perceived twice as loud as 10db, and 40db will be perceived twice as loud as 20db. In fact, that is the reason why the db scale is used. Since we're comparing db to db, it shouldn't matter what the intensity is
I think something you might be looking for, might not be a fan. But a piezo aquarium air pump. I feel this might work for part cooling, if you run it through a very narrow air nozzle there directly on the hot bead as it exists the nozzle. I haven't tested this idea, but i thought i'd share regardless. I actually had this thought several years ago but then instantly forgot to follow up on it.
I'd like to see a longevity test. The stock fans in my Ender 3 seem to start squealing and making a horrendous noise at around 200-300hrs of printing and need replacing. I've even had a couple fail after only 50 hours.
Very cool test. I did a "low tech" version screwing fans to a box with 2 holes in it, the fan in 1 hole, and a piece of paper over the other, and saw how far the paper blew out
@@ChrisRiley I didn't have nearly the amount of fans as you, I was comparing noise and flow between the stock creality hotend, winsinn, sunion, and a no name, just making sure they didn't have less flow than the stock fan. One thing I did learn, most winsinn 24v fans are just 12v fans with a 24v sticker spinning way too fast.
@@ChrisRiley yeah, after testing them, I'm definitely not a fan, ha ha. I got my skr e3 rrf in and set up, the esp8266 lasted about 6 hours before it let out the magic smoke. I wasnt very impressed with the performance with rrf firmware, but didnt have much time to play with it. There isnt a lot of support or info, I was having issues getting the bl touch to work, and z offset set. I'll have a new board tomorrow. Another question, the skr e3 rrf in Marlin mode, is there enough serial ports for the tft35 v3, wifi, and usb?
Have you considered the aerodynamics inside the duct? A small fan will suffer from turbulence inside the duct and will not be accurate as the duct is a closed system. Or am I wrong?
Purchased these, generally they run great at acceptable noise level but I dont get them working with lower PWM rates. Swapped today to GDS time and they work fine at lower rates. Generally PWM would have been great as another aspect for this test
@@tobiasinglin5644 Mhm, here's the added function key for the models that i found: 999: standard model A99: AutoRestart C99: F type (3rd wire) D99: with PWM F99: AutoRestart and R type(3rd wire) G99: AutoRestart and F type(3rd wire) H99: AutoRestart and with PWM Q99: AutoRestart , R type and with PWM S99: AutoRestart , F type and with PWM Apparently AutoRestart can be the issue. It detects what it believes to be rotation stall and then disables the fan for like 5 seconds.I ordered one and it turns out it has G99 function, but i suspect i might receive A99 instead, weird seller. Odds are, i can make it work, either by prepending an RC or LC filter or just by playing around with PWM frequencies, higher or lower. Or maybe i should cancel the order and get a Delta? I'm not up to buying junk fans again, this one has taken mere few couple hundred hours tops to start failing.
Thank you! This is a valuable resource for the whole community! This is the nerd version of project farm... "nerd basement" would be a great new segment.
Could you please upload another video just of the fans blowing and in the same format as the testing part of the video. But without the music, just so we can heard an audible and comparable difference in the fans.
Another piece of advice to help, from the perspective of a viewer is organizing which order you show the fans, either by size of mount, type, or voltage. I think voltage and size of mount would be two of the most important details to have on screen outside of the speed and decibel measurements that were taken. It helps significantly to help a viewer organize and understand which fans are the most similar and compare them. Since pinning a 5v fan against a 24v fan can make a massive difference in sound and how much air it moves.
I was thinking about uploading the non-music version for my Patreons, organizing them was a thing a struggled with, there were so many different configs.
The db readings are good to see and while we get some notion about airflow from m/s. unfortunately comparing blowers to inline blades is apples to oranges. blowers can compress air slightly, this is incredibly important where airflow is constrained. in fact open blade designs are really only meant to move air in space that cannot pressurize from airflow. I would like to see you do this test for airflow where the tube is actually slightly smaller than the fan output. it is almost certain the blower fans will handle it with near indifference while the inline blades will suffer huge performance losses.
Wish I could get a better fan for the Prusa Mini the hotted fan is noisy. Prusa use a Delta fan at 5v, people have tried to use Noctua but they don't work properly
So I'm in the Railcore Discord, and I see a note that Chris Riley has "done an OnlyFans..." Chris, Chris, Chris... Is this what it has come to? Time for an intervention? :) Nicely done.
What I always wanted to test is... Noctua VS sunon, but adjust the voltage down on the sunon until it is the same volume, then see which pushes the more air. If you still have your rig setup I would love it if you could post he result in the comments. thanks for the great video.. 😊
Great video! On the blower or turbo fan, I heat glued over where the cables that go into the engine. Under the cables, it´s usually open in the plastic into the fan wheel. Which makes the air come out and noise goes up. May be my imagination but it feels like it works better and sounds less with that hole glued shut. Be careful not to get glue on the fan wheel. It would be nice if you could try it and give an update if there is any difference.
To quieten my Ender 5+ down I put in a fan less power supply, the cooling fan for the control box I put a really big fan in then controlled it with an Arduino and a temperature sensor, the warmer it gets inside the box the faster the fan goes works great, most of my noise now comes from the hot end cooling fan and even that is set up to be off below 50 deg as per your video :)
Awesome Video Chris, really great information. I'm going to be looking for some new fans for both my Ender 3 Pro V2 and my Mingda Rock 3 Pro. I don't suppose you have a link or STL for a part cooling duct that would work well on the Mingda Rock 3 Pro? I haven't been able to find anything.
Hi Chris. This is very interesting. Of course it doesn't tell the whole story because these fans are operating in free flow mode (without any resistance or back pressure). It would be super interesting to perform a second pass (since you already have the setup) with a fixed restriction inside the tube (like a block with a hole in it _maybe 75% of the surface area of the tube for instance). I believe the results would be quite different. Blowers are known to built pressure while axial fans create high flow at lower pressure. Testing with a fixed restriction would show a larger difference between fan types and would give us additional information to help decide what is best for a given application. Either way, this is still a very interesting experiment. Thanks and Keep up the great work! Thumbs up!
@Chris Riley - What would you recommend to replace the god awful Hemera heatsink fan? I don't want to throw a noctua on it because I'm pretty sure it won't cool enough. Thanks for the great video.
@@ChrisRiley I had my eyes on this one: Sunon MF40102V2-A99. 1.11W so do you think it'll be louder than the .72W? Also I posted a video on my channel about the Hemera Fan at different voltages, and then put on the stock ender 3 heatsink fan. Just need to test to see if it pushes enough air to cool. If you could watch it and leave a comment that'd be dope.
It does not. PERCEIVED loudness is linear in dB-scale! At least this is the case around midrange, further out this is not entirely the case, due to Fletcher-Munson curves. But for dB values which don't differ by more than about 20-30dB, you might as well consider them perceptually linear. Putting two identical sources of noise right on top of each other will indeed increase the measured SPL by 3dB. However it doesn't make it twice as loud. Indeed if you had two identical fans near each other, each being about 50db loud, or 53db total, and you turned one of them off, the noise you're hearing would be slightly less loud, not half as loud. However, due to your experience, you would also know that you're hearing one fan as opposed to two, so you would know that this fairly moderate difference in noise volume corresponds to half as much or twice as much noise power. Confusing, right? It's also the same with light. Two identical lightbulbs aren't twice as bright as one, they're moderately more bright.
Loved your in-depth results however those Graphs... probably should have put up a 2nd Y-axis to separate the Sound and the Blow speed, because it's very hard to compare both along the same axis. That's done via Google docs on your chart by customizing each Series Separately on the Left or Right axis. You should unclick "Use row X as data", because its making you miss one fan each time. It feels sensible to graph the Sound DB logarithmically since DB scales that way. I've done this by calculating the DB difference between each fan with respect to the MAX measured and then changing it to logarithmic of that value. This scales the sound on the graph such that it can show whether a fan is 10 times louder than the other. I was able to draw better conclusions after doing the adjustments I suggested above.
Some experience I just encountered, I put a biqu h2 on, and I had a chance to use either an axial and a radial fan on the same duct. Where there was resistance, the axial fan didn't push the air through the duct, it cavitated, and pushed the air back on the wrong side of the blades. If you do another test, maybe make some type of venturi, to test the fans pressure ability. Either way, great data, thanks!
Love this kind of research, could add in the difference between a cfm and static pressure fan , this is useful to decide witch fan to use for what application. to cool a pc/ electronic/ chamber case its recommended to use a high cfm fan, to cool a radiator/ heatsink/using ducts its recommended to use a high static pressure fan.
To test part cooling fans, you should test them for pressure and not by flow. Try to see how much air they can make pass through a small hole could also work, and they should be much better on this them the other fans
Is there a way to check if the fan is compatible with 3D Printer? I bought a Sunon MF50152VX-C02U-A99 -24V 2.86W but it's not working at all when hooked up to the mobo but runs when connected to 24V PSU.
The should all be pretty common, just make sure the wiring isn't flipped. If you PSU say 24v then it should work. If it's the part fan you might have to turn it on in the menu.
to bad there was no default creality fan, like for an ender3 hotend, i broke a fin off mine so replacing it is my highest priority and having a comparison would have been awesome
The Hemera fan is SO FREAKING LOUD. Put one on my ender 3, with an SKR Mini E3 thinking I'd have a silent printer. Not even close. My Hypercube Evolution is soooo much quieter.
Your duct and mount prints look really clean. Cant tell if it's just the video though. Anyways, next time it would be interesting to see this done in categories/different videos of like 40mm fans with a comparison chart at end then 40mm blower fans with comparison chart and maybe a shootout with bridging, short layer times ect all tested along with different fan configurations like 1, 2 or 3 part cooling fans in different layouts. I've had great success with 3 5015s in a 120 degree layout in the past but finding good 5015s is difficult so I have resorted to over volting 5v to 8-10v changing them out regularly as a result, plus they are cheap quality to begin with. This is a great subject IMO that hasn't been covered properly in the past.
I just found this channel! Can you please redo this test but istead with 40x40x20mm fans? I would like to see Sunon dominate the table once again lol Great channel btw I know I'm stepping off boundries but if you get the chance can you test which is the best 40mm fan for alphacool 40mm server radiators
this is great, however just to tell the truth, not all sunon are the same, the part number tells a lot about the fan and there is a number that its really important, for example MF40202V2 the last 2 is the speed, this can be X super high, 1 High, 2 Medium 3 low and 4 extra low, this can change the CFM and off course the DB be sure to check the datasheet to make sure you are ordering the correct one
Can you make a video about part cooling inside a heated enclosure? I think BerdAir might be the best way to do this, but I'd like to have your opinion on this. My goal would be to do nice bridging inside an enclosure without compromising the temperature of the rest of the part much to reduce warping as much as possible.
