I very much like the demonstration of calm and analytical wrenching. No tools tossed around the shop. No foul language. No whining. Just getting to work! This is just another aspect of why I like this channel so much. You do your best to provide a good example of the right way to get stuff done. There are a lot of 'pros' that could learn those lessons too.
Well after the tantrum and wrench tossing you are all pissed off. Now you have to find your wrench and still need to fix the problem. Squatch has the best method. Just calmly fix the problem.
I'm thinking you are correct about it being an exaust seat. Makes sense with how the tick showed up when warm. Sr. Is definitely knowledgeable on the old tractors.
Getting angry, cussing, and throwing wrenches doesn't do any good and you have to find where you threw the wrenches before you can find the problem and fix it. It's just a waste of time and energy.
That was The Master at work! Many years of experience and a good ear! For those of us Senior's age it is a blessing he can still hear well enough to do that!!!
@@Radiotexas I was very surprised Toby didn't use the 'screwdriver to the ear' method of identifying the source of the tick. As you say, your ears are the best diagnosing tool of all on old machinery and the screwdriver to the ear is a great help👍🏻👍🏻🏴🇬🇧
WELL, it sounded worse when Senior turned the distributor CCW just before Squatch drove it out the door. That part really surprised me. It isn't that hard, all you need is a good ear. A carb always has a basic setting too for starting before you fine tune it after warm-up.
It used to be quite common to set the timing and carburetor by ear. The old cars that I had in my 20s were worn out enough that timing them with a timing light was a waste of time. When I listened to the engine and set it where they ran the best without kicking back on the starter, they had better power and got better mileage. I had 3 cars that would start with a quick bump of the starter if they were warmed up.
My rule is to put all tools away, tidy up, and have a beverage before a first start. This ritual keeps the gremlins away. Your shop looked very organized as usual, so I’m a bit mystified why this problem cropped up. Maybe you didn’t have a beverage?
If it makes you feel any better Toby I’m in your exact shoes. I just completely restored my ‘58 350. Engine, T/A, paint, tires, you name it I did it. Went and mowed a little to break it in and blew the head gasket on cylinder 1. Now it has to come back apart right after I put it all together.
Yes I agree the valve seat insert lossened up sounds like most likely. But do not count out a slipped valve guide. Pressing on the valve directly softens the hits of the valve head on the valve guide.Exhaust really should have tightened up an insert as the exhaust seat would be running much hotter than the head. So the insert should have expanded and tightened up. Slipped valve guides are really common now a days especially in mopar v-8's and Kohler and Briggs engines lawn tractor engines. Guides are known to loosen when the head heats up. Not experienced with an H engine as these valve guides could be ones that have a step that will prevent the guide from dropping down and hitting the value head. So my thoughts may not apply. Just trying to help. Now the question is is there a valve guide insert that is slightly larger in od? If not you maybe having to get a new head. Fixing a valve guide is easy as you a machine special valve guides. I have done this many times making special custom valve guides. There are no early model gravely valve guides so I make my own. I am hoping it is a slipped valve guide.
An old mechanics trick to find that pesky noise…..take that large flat blade screwdriver blade and put it on the suspicious area. Put you ear on the other end and odd noises could be revealed . Maybe put your palm between your ear and the handle end. Great for finding bad generator bearings. Hope you find the issue.
I bought a 1942 M with a transmission whine, wanted it fixed and had our local trusted shop go through the rear end and refresh some stuff. Still has a whine to it. Brought it home and pulled it in the shed. Went to back it out the next time and felt a binding. Bull gear spat a drain plug out that definitely didn’t belong to my tractor out through the rear case. So back it goes and somehow this plug evaded being seen by the shop twice. They had a left over M transmission from years earlier that they frankenstined together to make a new housing and internals… still has a whine to it. Im gonna assume its just 80 years of wear and tear tiredness and new gears that aren’t 100% meshing to eachother the right way
That’s exactly what it is, old straight cut tooth gears that all have wear, and when you mix/match them like I did here it’s always a gamble whether you’re going to make things worse or better lol
We were very fortunate with our '42 H as she had been hard worked in the woods and road work through a very long period of time. My dad was a stickler for changing all the fluids before book intervals, he always impressed on me that "oil is a cheap mechanic". When my brother restored her, he replaced all the bearings but the gears were in excellent shape.
I had the same thing happen in my M. What happened was the head was cracked under the valve seat, in a circular pattern with the recession of the valve seat. When the engine got a little warm, that crack would expand and drop the valve seat onto the valve head and it would hang the valve open. With a borescope you could see it hanging like a wedding ring on a necklace.
@@squatch253 Might as well warm it up, borescope it and see what ya got. If indeed the head is cracked under the seat, At least then you will have options to choose in how to remedy the problem.
Master class in tracking it down! While it’s frustrating to spend all that time getting something perfect and then a wrong sound pops up, it’s ALWAYS best to catch a valve seat “going rogue” early!
My guess would be the valve seat. If they're stellite seats, they have to be super tight on the exhaust side to keep them from expanding and then falling back out. Depending on how good the quality of the cast iron is in the head, it may not hold a stellite seat. I believe they have regular steel seats that will probably stay in better. You guys did a really fine job restoring that old H. I spent a LOT of hours on one of those when I was a kid, pulling a 5 ft. bush hog!😉
We encountered a bad batch of hardened seats a few years back. After a few years of running they would self destruct. Didn’t mess up engine, pistons got a few marks but the heads had to come off and get redone. $600 later we got them back. Wasn’t fun since it was a customers car that was stored and he wanted to sell it.
May I suggest a different gear oil to quiet the gear train ? A company called Redline, makes a gear oil that is called shockproof. The one I use in my Harley is Shockproof Heavy . It’s about as thick as 40W But has an SUS rating of 85-250. It’s incredible how quiet and smooth shifting it makes an older Harley Davidson Transmission. You won’t be disappointed 👍
Now I see why you needed the new building so you don't have to take the muffler off the exhaust system plus not having to duck when you are going in and out of the old shop
@@squatch253 cool beans 🫘 fun part is getting the concrete poured and properly finished from the size of the building it's going to take alot of concrete other thing is will you have it colored or leave it plain looking plus having power ran into it
Good morning Toby, is was brilliant how the 'H' jumped straight into action but then when that tapping started my thoughts were has something come loose. what ever that noise is I have every confidence that you and senior to sort it out. I keep meaning to ask about the seat as noticed that you haven't got the red and white striped seat on. Although I can just imagine a permanent dirty hand mark on the white stripe.
Wonder if you Could pull a plug and bore-a-scope the valve seats before tearing apart. Awesome to hear it run again tho, I know you and senior with get it figured out one way or another fingers crossed its nothing crazy.
That thought crossed my mind, but the valves are quite a ways up above the spark plug hole because the combustion chambers in the head are pretty deep.
@@squatch253 A lot of the borescopes come wiith a 45° mirror that fits of the end, to look sideways. The really good borescopes have a steerable end that can move like a snake and point nearly anywhere.
@@squatch253 Draw the manifold off her, Toby, and spin her over with the handle and the plugs out. You just might be able to see in through the ports if an insert has dislodged?
Great to see the machine back in action after all the work, amazing to see the veteran tuning the machine like a musician tuning without an instrument!
My dad bought a Farmall Super M at auction. The Super M was supposed to have about 5 more horsepower than the M we already had but it would not pull as much and smoked a lot. M has 4 inch pistons and Super M has 4.25” pistons. Some supposed mechanic had rebuilt the engine and used 4” M rings on a Super M piston. Corrected and worked as expected. Strong old tractors.
Well that stinks. This is part of the reason I don’t like painting my tractors. Every time something goes wrong you have to take touch up the paint. Between you and Sr, I’m sure you’ll figure it out!
I’m right there with you, the older I get the more I like my “patina tractors”. You can have a lot more care-free fun with those and even perform repairs without having to worry about a thing lol 😎
Ugh, sorry Toby. Hopefully this is just a minor speed bump. We are at the same point with Lefty right now and the word nervous is a tremendous understatement! 😳
Thanks for the update Toby! Nice to hear Preparation H running. Boy that seems just like my luck with that happening just like last night I had no water but ended up being a starter compositor was bad so en easy fix. Hope it’s nothing major for you. Can’t wait for the next video!
Might be the valve seat had it happen on 8 hp briggs exhaust pricked seat bore with punch JB welded back in and flat punched around top edge ran another 8 or 10 years on wood splitter finally just wore out replaced with a 12 hp good luck interested to see what you find
Is there some sort of building code that says that every shop main door has to have another building right in front of it? I see this everywhere. Big open yard, nice big workshop and some other buildings right out the main doors to the shop.
Sounded so good when first started. With that much work done to the engine one never knows what it is. I hope it is nothing to serious. I chased a noise like that on my 1945 M. Lucky for me just a valve setting. Hope you find an easy fix. Really do appreciate how you handle it. Many lessons for many years lessons you have learned. Thanks.
That thing is beautiful man! Hope you get that tick figured out and gone. I just finished tearing down a 1942 H and slowly starting from the rear working forward.
My first thought is...what tick, ha. You guys, besides teaching the master mechanics, have way more patience than I do. Sorry for the problem, but it makes for a good lesson for us viewers - thanks for sharing Toby.
Love your videos🤩 Hope not the tractor punish you with the valve seat problems because of the orange peel paint job 😬 You better hurry up sand and buff that orange peel away 😄 Best Regards from Oslo Norway..
I always enjoy hearing an engine come to life after a rebuild. It's disappointing to have to disassemble again, but I sure appreciated your methodology for troubleshooting and it sure makes sense. I'll be interested to see if you confirm your suspicions. I'm sure you and Sr. will have it resolved quickly.
It popped off after only a a couple revs. Amazing. You did a great job on 2924 pieces - it was only the 2925th that caused a problem...and maybe that piece was out of your control. Sounds like you're on the hunt and will get it to ground soon. Good luck on the fix. Hope to see you at Nowthen.
You just never know what could happen during those first starts. In the airplane world, I would be tempted to look at the seat with some type of fiber optic scope just to verify the “smoking gun”. I’m holding out for something simple though. Love the channel!
Excellent video Squatch 253 SR , JR I say hope it simple fix of bit adjustment to engine and transmission quiet down too more use it plus tweak of adjustment too!
Nice work on tractor you have done a beutimous job on the tractor don't let this little problem defeat you I know you'll gfigure it out. I would get one of those cheap horoscopes on the jungle site an take a peak in that cylinder.
I dread first starts as well, 15 years a mechanic and I feel the same as you about it. I’d get a borescope in there and confirm your theory but that was my first thought once you found it went away and came back.
Being that the noise comes and goes after it warmed up I’ll be optimistic because it’s the exhaust valve and say the valve is sticking due to too close of tolerance between the guide and stem. Either way the heads coming off.
I've been there. Call me weird but figuring out stuff like a mystery tick or knock is actually part of the fun for me. Aggravating up front but really satisfying in the end.
It’s a little bit comforting to know you guys have the same feelings about first starts that I do. I pretty much start shaking every time I do something like this! Good luck troubleshooting the exhaust valve. I’ll be interested to know how the machine shop fixes the seat if that is the culprit.
Bent push rod? collapsed lifter, maybe a spring is cracked. this is the first video i watched of the series so i dont know if you replaced those during the restoration.
You must really love to paint, beautiful work. I don't have that touch. You and I used to talk about snowmobiles back on ACMOC years ago, JoeG from NW PA. I just found your channel. It sounds like a seat to me too, should be an easy fix.
Hey JoeG 👍 I remember you from the ACMOC forum, I’m still Sasquatch over there. Good to see you again, I’ve also got quite a bit of Caterpillar content compiled in organized playlists on the main channel page here if you get tired of the Red tractors lol
I would get the boroscope out and have a look through the plug hole and watch the seat as you turn it over by hand. If it is as loose as you mentioned with the occasional dull thud, then you will be able to see it dropping.
My 1st thought was a sticky cam follower but it's an unusual one, Toby. I must have missed the episode where you mentioned the head having new valve seat inserts and when you mentioned that, I thought, aha! Very possibly a dropped insert as you say. Man, that transmission is not happy either, hope it beds in a little in time 🤞🏻🤞🏻 🏴🇬🇧
Did you hold off on putting antifreeze in to avoid potential leaks on the new paint ? I've made that mistake. In the late 60s we evidently couldn't afford antifreeze. All summer we ran water. During autumn we drained two tractors every night. We caught the water, and carried it into the basement for re-use. High lime content on the farm. The 6 volt batteries spent the winters in the basement on a board. My folks were a product that the depression. Tussen Takk !
My own personal rule is to just fill with antifreeze every time, to avoid the big “whoops” of forgetting to drain before it gets cold outside. Although I called it “water” here, it’s always antifreeze 👍
Quick thought check valve lash with it running and ticking on that one valve if it is way loose then you know its either a loose seat or something stuck on valve strange it is intermentant noise
Oh you might look at the tops of the valve guides and compare them to see if they are all at the same level or is one lower than the others. If it is a valve guide I would have all pressed out and pressed back in with locktite sleeve locker. Just a friendly suggestion,
Good first start It very well could be a insert loosening up under heat it's not likely they het up the heads when they placed the inserts in and pressed them into their recessions. Still they shouldn't be to bad and they may wear in.
WELL-L-L-L-L As my dad used to say after a long sigh ….. PLAN B !!!! At least it is just one valve & not all eight !!! It has to be something relatively minor !! Valve seat, valve guide, rocker shaft shim or bad spring, rocker arm face, cam lobe, tappet face, push rod the list goes on. One of those situations that when you do find it, you will say OF COURSE, why didn’t I do that FIRST !!! Does this engine have valve rotators ? Had one of those drive me nuts until I replaced them. Intermittent ticking at idle. Would go away mid throttle when oil was abundant.
Thanks, and yes I’m currently working on eliminating that rocker arm as a possible culprit before going any deeper 👍 And no, this H does not use rotaries but fun fact of the day - the later Super H heads and valves used them.
Thanks, yes I’m currently working on a last-ditch “Hail Mary” attempt at fixing the noise before having to pull the cylinder head back off- stay tuned! 👍
Before pulling down dismantling, do you have a bore scope that you can poke in a plug hole so that you can watch that valve & seat as you manually open and close that valve.
Well, If you DO have a valve seat that came loose, at least nothing got dropped into a running cylinder,and trashed the entire deal..... Better to catch this now ,than running it hard later and finding out the "disaster" way.... :/ Good luck guys..
Another quality no holds barred video though I’m sure you edited the expletives, I know that after all the immense amount of work you’ve put in to then have a knock which looks like a failure of a part that you had no control over must be soo frustrating. Mind you whilst this is awful for you and senior it means that we get bonus footage though we feel you pain.
