FATE OF THE LOST PRIMARCHS! JAILED BY THE CUSTODES? 

I absolutely think at least one of the lost Primarchs is down there. As cold-blooded as the Emperor (beloved by all) can be, killing one of his own sons is something even he struggles with. Look at how much had to happen before the Emperor (beloved by all) finally destroyed Horus. I know a lot of people want their fates and identities to remain a mystery but I really, really want to find out more about them.

You know, I'm fine with not knowing the ultimate fates of the missing Primarchs, but the burning question I want to know about them is what did they do? That's the bit that I keep hoping to read one day.

I got the impression that Dorn had stumbled across the _tomb_ of his lost brothers rather than their erstwhile living quarters.

Since the Emperor can see the future I wonder if he kept “Subject 11” alive to save the future of the imperium. He scrubbed or planted fake memories in their minds of all the Primarchs to think he was dead so Chaos wouldn’t find out, but has him in stasis till the right time.

Custodes 1:it's been a millennia now how's that primarch we got locked up in the basement doing? Custodes 2:we don't talk about him Custodes 1:why- Custodes 2:BECAUSE WE DON'T TALK ABOUT HIM

I've always thought that the "forgotten" Primarch simply disagreed with the Emperor on the fundamentals of the great crusade and refused to wage war on non-compliant human civilizations. He may have been given a chance to get with the program but eventually the Emperor washed his hands of him and his legion and that was the end of it.

Just a shot in the dark, but what if the terminus decree had nothing to do with killing the emperor but instead releasing the 11th?

I have a theory that one of them was sent to the future when the Primarchs were scattered by the warp. Possibly growing up on a world once loyal to the Imperium, but now ravaged by war. Where the fate of the Imperium is known to be a terrible fall to corruption and chaos. So the Primarch manages to make his way back through the warp to sometime before the HH and tries to warn his father of whats to come and after the things he predicted start come to pass, his Legion are absorbed into other legions and he is taken to Terra in secret to advise the Emperor, and all memory of him and his knowledge of the future is erased. It could even be that the "original" timeline of the Imperium was far darker than it currently is and only with the Primarchs help was the Emperor able to steer events in the most favourable direction. Its been said before that big E knew that half his sons would turn so maybe all that and his internment on the golden throne was simply the best option...kinda like Dr Strange in Endgame :) sorry for the long rant

Fairly simple deduction: Not killing them instead putting them on storage because: 1. making primarchs is a rather expensive investment and killing them just because they have an issue is not an option (see the case of Angron), 2. If E. distributed the respective legionnaires to other legions as it is suspected, they may need genetic materials.. 3. Just my own suspicion, because they have no issue, they committed no sin , they are just wildcards in a rather tough poker match with the 4 whom E had some agreements before . Having a couple of unknown primarchs hidden after making certain promises he had no intention to keep..is not that hard to consider. Just my thoughts ofc

I've always found it odd that the Caos Gods and the Herectical Primarch are silent on the Lost and the Damned. It seems to me if you are free enough to be Daemon Prince you aren't likely to be constrained about your lost brothers.

Something to consider,in the fury of Magnus heresy book, there are still 20 primarch sized villas deep under the palace hidden through the black stone labyrinth.

I still believe 2 is a blank and went into the warp with his legion sent there by the emperor and since the emperor wanted all warp shenanigans quiet, did everything he could to silence it. 11 maybe the emperors rage and wrath that he couldnt control.

The Emperor also has set a precedent for imprisoning one of his creations, The Angel. The Angel helped the Emperor pacify Terra (and potentially helped in the early days of The Great Crusade), but it became so destructive that he had to put him into an eternal sleep (hence his other name, The Sleeper). If the Emperor imprisoned The Angel because he couldn't bring himself to kill him, why not one of his sons?

I think the theory that the Black Templars are not descended from Dorn but actually from one of the Lost Primarchs since we know from the Chamber story that the Imperial Fists absorbed marines from one or both of the Legions. Rogal tells Sigismund that he was never his son and the mentality and outlook of the Black Templars is so different than the other Imperial Fists and their successors.

Considering what we know about the Custodes and about how they operate and also taking into consideration that the Custodes exist for more than 10.000 years and that their original name might have become quite slurred over time, it is perfectly safe to assume that the Adeptus _Custodian_ helped to... sweep the two lost Primarchs under the rug. I help myself out...

Wouldn’t it be cool to get more great crusades books? Before the Heresy, before the counsel of Nikes. Just legions doing their jobs. Like a novel where Fulgrim and his 300 astates fight along side the lunar wolves. Or the founding of Manacia or some of the first legions conquests. Or a series of books about the Ram dag xenosaga

I always loved reading the fan theories in comment sections speculating about the fate of the II and XI Primarchs, and the total mystery surrounding them. I honestly think GW should keep their fates untold. Every good story needs threads that never get tied up, the mystery and the discussions they create are more fun than having everything explained. What conclusion could GW give to The Forgotten and The Purged that could honestly live up to the years of speculation and fan theory at this point?

The lengths the Emperor goes to save his sons given his history of genocide makes me wonder if the Primarchs actually are pieces or are repositories of the Emperor's soul.

Would be pretty good story telling if. The two lost legions and their primarchs. We're never lost at all, but were meant as a sort of failsafe. like maybe their roles were merely ones that couldn't be known. Plus they always say their legions were spared. And we just assume that means they were mixed in with the rest of the legions. But wouldn't it be equally. Or even more badass, if there was atleast one old crusade strength legion stasis locked under the palace?

RE: not allowing Dorn to flatten the two villas. A possible that Big E and Malcador have some sort of location based wards that are linked to those villas. The personal connection etc.

I know I'm late to the party. But maybe the reason they were purged from all records is because they both transcended the physical plane. The Primarch's are considered to be a combination of genetic engineering and the Emperor's DNA. Maybe the use of his DNA was what was needed to allow Minor Gods he had collected/convinced to possess the Primarch bodies - this would explain why some of them didn't like him while others remained loyal, along with why the clone of Horus didn't have a Primarch aura and why Angron lost his upon ascension to daemonhood (his Minor God 'soul' left the Primarch's body or was subdued). Maybe the two lost Primarch's learned of what they were and spoke of it to the Emperor, who was obviously enraged and ordered them not the speak of it again due to this knowledge going against the Imperial Truth. Resulting in 'The Purged' to go against his father and continue to work on transcending back into the warp, only with greater power thanks to the Emperor's DNA. 'The Lost' could have been the one to try and stop his brother, culminating in their Legions battling and the Emperor present to witness their duel, just before 'The Purged' successfully transcended and became Malal. The reason I think this is because when Horus is being choked to death by Malachor, he tries to speak the name of one of his lost brothers and only gets out "M.. Mal.. al" before his windpipe is completely closed. Maybe after seeing the process to be able to transcend, 'The Lost' was encouraged by the Emperor to do the same to ensure his transcended brother was kept in check. Ending in 'The Lost' transcending back to its Minor God form and going into the warp to chase/battle his brother. The Emperor would then cease the fighting with his enormous psychic power and mind wipe them all before the timeline we all know - Dorn/Rowboat convincing him to spare the marines and have them join the Fists and Ultramarines, mindwiping the other Primarchs and anyone with knowledge of them and who they were. Finally labelling them as 'The Purged' (Malal) and 'The Lost' (the loyal son who may be battling with his brother for all eternity). This would also explain why Malal is able to be summoned into the physical plane, even though it's supposed to be a Minor God.

It would be awesome if one or both escape. We'll see.

Imagine your Primarch first telling you that the Emperor has forbidden using Psyker talents, knowing your primarch is definitely the type to enforce the Emperor's decrees violently, and then having your primarch come to you like "hey, do me a solid and do your psyker thing for me..." I picture a normally hyper obedient space marine being like "uhhhhhh..."

I'd say that for WH40k, calling it "subject 11" is pretty much on the nose.

My idea for one of the missing Primarchs is told by Astartes in this secret chapter which wears only black it is known as the Dark Wolves and my back story is a young aspirant decked out in armour black as night. He kills multiple altered senturys altered to exist on a radiated world guarding a secret listening post. A rickety lift takes them up from the drop sight of the first nuclear missile. The shadow breaks necks of some guards with such force he rips their heads of making the blackest of blood shoot upwards as he holds them slowly lowering the bodies to the dusty ground. In the Astartes lens he watches the radiation level rising . He arrives at the framework to the lift but the Astartes silently climbs without a sound not scratching his matt black armour. The last guards are walking patrolling the plateau where the listening station sits with aerial types picking up every voxed talk across the universe. The tracks of one show a foot and a reptilian tail supporting the guard. To cut it short one he shoots the other he eviscerated! He places explosives on to a heavily armored door .Slowly he backs away but inside a Adeptus Menchanicus Preist of the darkest evil moves towards the door his remaining part of his mind say investigate. Such a large explosion drops the adept off his rubber tracks, his thin metal arms are unable to push him up right. The Astartes whose been only a shadow as he took out sentrys one by one, the adapt finds his mind clear free for the first time in ten thousand years! Lying next to him is a figure covered in slime and it slowly grows as the Astartes fills his bag with STC information from these different listening devices! He turns as a feeling of eyes on his back. The creature came from the adopts mind and stands two meters tall. "What are you it asks ,the Astartes puts to bolt pistols rounds in its forehead. What are you as you move like Primarch Corvus, but your shooting is placed like Gulliman. I felt you running like the Kahn yet I smell Russ? What are you child the aspirant turned a faint growling came from his lips! Your built like the defender of the palace Dorn by your height is like a son of Vilkan ! The Aspirant removed his helmet with the sound of pressure seals decreasing in pressure . So my my the creature pronounced its voice female your face is of Sanguinius your one of his? The aspirant laughed we are the darkest chapter kept secret by a experimenting devout Priest on Mars you see demon my father its said was born with a little of all his family its said. But my chapter honours the wolf named Russ for when he came to kill him for saying the future for his father the Emperor who saw much but not everything. RUSS allowed his twin brother to leave with his thirty thousand warriors knowing the Emperor may punish him for giving life not taking it as well as thirty thousand Astartes brothers that was the biggest similarity of all was to leaman Russ and his lone wolf side ! My father ended his life the same way his brother lost his but he was reborn in the furthest place imaginable north where its said he lives still! As the Aspirant walked out through the bent door frame he fired every round of his bolt pistol into the creature while saying I am Achilles and a new brother of the Dark Wolves Chapter! Overhead a thunderhawk kept cycling waiting for the black armoured marine to leave . It fired multiple missiles in through the twisted door frame in to the listening machines and the creature now formed as a woman a single horn on her head and a snapping scorpions pincer instead of a hand.

I know it isn't canon but I think it would be great lore if one, or even both, of the 2 lost legions/primarchs were actually sacrificed to a man willing by big E, to ensure that big E had "soul legion" in place to fight to the fullest in warp space, thus becoming the Legion of the Damned. This would allow for the 'half' return of a loyal primarch and open up a lot of story opportunities what with the legion of the damned only being able to temporarily remain in realspace etc... Idk

For me reading 40k since I was a teenager and constantly seeing knowledge is power. I want that power, I want to know of the 2 lost primarchs. Like many people I'm always looking for new news on them. I'd rather just know at this point. Been a fan for 20 years would be nice to know before die of old age.

Comes a time when you take the reins off even a dead horse. They should move this part of the storyline along.

I know this really wouldn’t make sense because all the psych wards around but I’ve always wanted either the second or the 11th Primark to be a blank

I love the Custodes, but one of the theories I was recently woken up to and cling to is that the Custodes should’ve never been an army on the table top. You should’ve been able to use them as Agents and that’s it. Even in 30k they were only seen in small squads either protecting the emperor in force, or a small detachment along with a legion.

It seems like GW is not just teasing so we could make a fan chapter based on a mystery, like the Blood Ravens, but.... They seem to be teasing more specifically lately. Perhaps current moods at GW are open to fleshing out the story.

I know it is hard to keep this going, it starts getting hard for content, but this was dead a bullseye! This harkens back to some of your greatest videos. Well done, sir. Kudos Wolf Lord.

We don't even know what the primarx did which got them relegated down the memory hole. I think it has something to do with the Rangda. If you put both Russ and Jonson there, you have maybe the most trustworthy 2 primarchs from the perspective of the Emperor. At the time, the 1st was the largest legion it's the largest legion and was there to deal with an extinction level threat. We know that the 1st kept a lot of secrets. We know that Russ kept a lot of responsibilities and earned a reputation from somewhere. I maintain that the 1st and 6th dealt with them. It is conceivable that Russ slew one and the Lion imprisoned one.

Love these type of lore videos by you. Keep them coming

I remember reading in one of the HH books that someone punched the 11ths pod right as it was about to be pulled into the warp, damaging it. I imagine that's a huge plot point

I like to believe that in those rooms one of them has a Primarch in Stasis, which was the “Forgotten”. Because he was slowly forgotten to almost everyone via time/mind wipes/or something else like that. Due to the Horus Heresy and the 10k years passing by. And the other one which is the “Purged”, has a Coffin where his body resides, because I sorely believe this one died during the Rangdan Xenocide, and the lost of a Primarch would’ve been disastrous for the crusade. So he purged him from history.

This is genuinely creepy! Imagine being Rogal, discovering this and demanding the truth from Malcador, then Malcador tells you it was all your idea in the first place. What the heck.

My head cannon has been that one was raised by benevolent xenon, maybe even growing up on an eldar craft world. He took command of his legion and was happy to battle orcs and mindless threats, but refused to attack non-belligerent eldar, maybe even defended his home craftworld from another legion. The other I’d always thought maybe landed within the eye, and was too corrupted to be of use to anyone, maybe even the first primarch to embrace chaos. Hell, what if the rangdan xenocide was a cover story, a real event blown out of proportion to hide that the real war was against this daemon primarch and his legions of chaotic followers, with some of his legion turning to follow him. In the end this gear daemon primarch was destroyed by E (and his sword), and all memory of the event removed from the primarchs’ and legionaries’ minds

There is some lore that suggests at least some of the prisoners in the Black Cells are the other Perpetuals who turned against the EoM. They are in the cells, because as Perpetuals they are almost impossible to kill. Oh and all memory of the 2nd and 11th Primarch's were eventually removed from the minds of all remaining Primarch's by Malcador. So that they only remember they existed and something terrible happen with them. Though based on Horus's reaction to them during the Hersey. Malcador may have implanted the idea during the mind wipe, that it was probably the best option at the time. We also know it was Dorn and Guillmen who saved the surviving members of the lost two legions. Successfully convincing the EoM that it was the Primarch's that failed and not the legionaries. So the survivors were absorbed into Imperial Fists and Ultramarines. Probably after having their minds wiped and their gene-seed switch out to their new legion. But if the lost and forgotten are in the Cells or that place Dorn found. They may be in stasis for all time.

When I see a new video by Rho...its followed by an immediate click. Love the channel Rho. Great theory that I, for one, hope is true. I find the forgotten and the purged Primarchs fascinating. Hopefully we get some lore in the near future. I always hoped that at least one would have remained loyal....at the outskirts of the galaxy fighting the good fight....but Dorn's comment "if they were here now, the war would already have been lost" is telling.

Great stuff I love these parts of the lore that have us guessing and theorizing on the setting

I feel Dorn was really close to one, most likely 11 was the one, 11 being spared and how much horus reacted, it seems he was Vulcan/pre evil horus of good. He most likely they were respected, loved and cared for, which ask question...how bad was the thing he did....

Wow another great video keep up the great work love the theory all your video's a great can't wait for the next one

I think it is highly likely they are kept alive specifically because their legions were sparred and still seen as useful - because executing them would create psychic backlash that would wound their entire legion. The memory wipe might not even be specifically to keep the primarch's away, but rather is an extremely long running experiment to see if those legions will be psychically detached from their origin primarch eventually, and become attached to another primarch they don't necessarily share genetic heritage with. The Forgotten might have even volunteered for such a duty if they were not interested in leading their legion and simply refused to do such . . . perhaps even specifically created to be something of a pacifist - and for the young Imperium, him convincing his brothers to stop the crusade on morale grounds would be just as much a threat to the Emperor as them turning to Chaos . . . . but eventually after the crusade has finally succeeded, they would become an incredibly useful tool for stopping future civil wars.

Yo these videos are bad ass Good job dude

My head cannon is they were on campaign together somewhere, and the 11th was up to no good, whatever that may be. The 2nd were a rather nasty lot but were loyal and didn't take kindly to whatever nonsense the 11th was prattling on with and turned on them real quick, maybe even too quick. The Emperor heard and sent Russ to end this bloody incursion by killing the second primarch. The 11th were a pretty big legion and fairly dispersed to spread whatever shit they're up to so the 2nd can't kill them quick enough before the wolves get there and the tides of the battle turn, until russ starts to see just whats going on and realises he's killing the wrong guys. But it's too late and most of the second is dead. Russ then has to get reinforced by the only close expeditionary fleet, belonging to the ultramarines maybe even headed by guilliman. Together they crush the remaining 11th legion elements. The second legion is in ruins, they number less than 1000 marines after fighting the 11th and then the 6th for so long. Their primarch is dead or in stasis mortally injured, maybe by russ? The remaining 2nd legion are absorbed into the 13th because they, now, really don't like the space wolves for obvious reasons. And the 11th is completely destroyed and their primarch killed. The emperor, ironically, sent russ to kill the wrong guy. And then russ, ironically, did kill the wrong guy, maybe. The Emperor has to hide whatever shit the 11th was doing to state this off, because it must've been pretty bad. And he has to hide the fact that he sent Russ after the wrong guy. He also has to hide that fact that marines can actually turn on each other extremely savagely, because at this time it's not something that's happened before.

Three ideas came to mind about the meaning of those doors. 1) They are a prop meant to point readers, through Dorne, to the Lost Primarchs. It's possible there's nothing more to it, but where's the fun in that? 2) The doors have some heavy duty warding mechanisms built into them which are difficult to replace, which is why they were kept. They could be used to keep a rogue Primarch imprisoned in their room to be dealt with at a later date. If that's the case, wouldn't every Primarch's chambers be warded? Did the Emperor expect something to happen where such precautions would be needed? 3) If the purged ones were indeed executed or imprisoned in the lowest bowels of the dungeons, why preserve the doors when all other traces have been erased or 'destroyed'? Nostalgia? What makes more sense if if one or both of them agreed to serve the Imperium in secret to atone for whatever happened. Staying within the sprawling palace would give them access to people and networks while hidden passageways would let them move about unseen.

I like to think that the fates of the two missing Primarchs and their legions were tied together in some way. That there was a flaw in the purged legion’s geneseed that necessitated their being ordered purged. All but the forgotten legion’s Primarch accepted the Emperor’s decree and he tried to stop the purge and to resist the Emperor’s cruel sentence. The other Legions and their Primarchs did nothing to support this and now attempt to “forget” this secret shame that one brother and his legion did what the others didn’t have the strength or courage to do, oppose their father-emperor’s will in defence of their brothers.

My headcanon is that out of the 20, the 2nd and 11th primarchs ended up being sent to xenos homeworlds. Perhaps leading to one of them sympathizing with a particular xenos race. Maybe one of them refused an order, or maybe it was just Big E, and space Gandalf simply decided they were a liability.

The 2nd and 11th are Gork and Mork. They haven't stopped fighting yet. Emperor said they can't come out til they make up and shake hands.

The missing primarchs and legions, here’s my theory. Those two were successful in rebelling against the emperor. They were erased because if they were known and known to be successful it could inspire other rebels. Horus and the others failed, so they’re known about as a cautionary tale. If 9 primarchs failed what chance does anyone else have, sort of thing.

It is referenced in the new space wolves book- Wolftime, around chapter 19 I think that Space wolves did indeed take exterminate one of the lost legions

Why don’t we hear more about the lost primarchs from the traitor primarchs . It would be a great story line to expand some more on the 2nd and 11th . 🤔

Ive been reading the horus heresy and im on the first heretic about the word bearers and lorgar. And theres qutie a few moments where the lost primarchs get mentioned, but its always something in the line of "dont mention the lost primarchs because lorgar will get too upset with grief" which just always made me think they were just dead or turned somehow.

Also don’t forget that after the battle for Tarra the dark cells where empty and things got out…

Love this video. Speaking of Love... My theory is that there is one part of the Emporer that's not expressed in a certain way which is what one of these Primarchs would have been styled around and that's love. There is love for humanity from Vulcan and love for their legions by all of them but not a pure kind of love for another being. The other embodiment is diplomacy. That could be for say primarch 2. Here goes... I think the diplomacy primarch ends up fighting lots of greenskin and ends up teaming up with Eldar and once it really gets going he has 11 with him too. This is enough to piss off the Emporer who summons 2 and 11 back to Terra. On arrival not only has 2 created a full on peace treaty and has Eldar in his battle force but 11 has only gone and fallen in love with an Eldar Princess. Maybe even there's some wacky half elf nonsense at play. This enrages the Emporer who orders Russ and the Custodes to take them into the cells but in the commotion Russ kills 2. In know it's far fetched but it's my theory and I'm sticking to it!

I have only just begun diving into Warhammer lore, but I love these big mysteries. I hope its not just that they fell to chaos in a manner similar to Horus. I have a million different scenarios in my head because its fun to think about (to the extent I hope that we never fully know their fate, and are only given hints). But one scenario for my head canon is that one of the primarchs had something similar to techno mancy, or the ability to speak and interface with machines to such an extent that, not knowing of the history of the men of iron, made contact with a lingering AI and combined with it. And/or that this technomancy was of such an extent that the emperor ended up fearing it might damage his position with mars as omnissiah as this primarch's abilities were such that he could compete if not supplant the emperor's position. And for the other, because of the theories that primarchs have some warp entities stuffed into them, or at the very least warp mechanics going on that the emperor either stole from the chaos gods or whatever, that one of the missing primarchs was of such a hybrid between warp /soul and flesh that his specific nature among primarchs could provide the Necrons a key to understand how to finally transition back into the flesh. And that this Primarch in particular, given that primarchs seem to have been scattered to worlds that fit their natures, was scattered to a Necron tomb world and in fact was either partially or fully inhabited by some hitherto unknown necron. Like I said, all pure speculation and no doubt I'm missing something in the lore that would prohibit it, but its fun to think about.

If the memories of Primarchs can be altered why were the two lost Primarchs not rehabilitated using these strong alterations of memory

I do believe that this cells are for the Primarchs, but not in the way we imagine. Let’s remember that the Emperor not only created the primarchs to be the generals of his crusades, but also replacement for the other Eternals that abandoned his plan. To the Emperor the Primarchs (even though his own flesh and blood) were nothing but tools on his campaign we even see that sentiment when Guilliman returned to Terra and went to talk to his father, instead of a warm welcome a father would give to a lost son he loved, he treated Guilliman in a cold way similar to how someone reacts when they finally found the tool they were searching. To the Emperor the Primarchs are just tools, however they are irreplaceable tools. Now if we are to be believe the theories that Primarchs not only having some of his father abilities but their very souls are actually minor Gods of the Warp, it could explain why the Emperor doesn’t discard/replace them like any other tool, because they are way to unique and powerful. This will put into question what are the missing primarchs and what actions lead them to being forgotten. From what we know they did not betray the Emperor because if they did they would have been written down as traitors, and they were not they were called “ThePurge” and “The Forgotten”. The Purged or the Second Primarch I liked to believe that he was heavily mutated or that his body reacted poorly to the soul of the god that was bestowed on him. This the Emperor was forced to purge the body but keep the God Soul in order to try and create a new body. The IX Primarch or “The Forgotten” I like to believe that his fate was either that we was consumed in the warp when their containers were spread across the Galaxy, thus becoming one with the Warp and he manifests himself through the Legion of the Damned and he is the actual force behind the many Saints/Emperial demons instead of the Emperor himself (or one of his shards). Let’s remember another name given to damned souls is also forgotten souls. I do Believe the IX cell is the one that holds a future body of that Primarch if Malchador and the Emperor are ever in the need to retrieve him from the Warp, although at this point (if we follow my theory) his aid in the form of “The Legion of the Damned” is far more useful to them in that way. Anyway this is just my speculation, you tell me what you think.

I like to think this was another plan within a plan by the Emperor + Malcador. The two “lost” primarchs agreed to be removed from their legion and put into containment to return and help the Imperium in their most desperate hour. But the plan went wrong when the Emperor become contained on the Golden Throne and Malcador died and was no longer to tell anyone of their location.

What a great setting this would be for the next Warhammer Quest instalment - Warhammer Quest: Vaults of Terra

I imagine GW has deliberately made it so that Fabius Bile never comes upon geneseed from one of the lost primarchs, cultivated from a dead Ultramarine or IF…

A great video really asking many interesting questions 🙂👍🏻

Maybe that's why bellisario's has some of those primary space Marines followed because he used their Gene seed

I have to go to the doctor and then this dropped so here I am not moving until I’ve have my Rho for the day haha

Calling it now, I genuinely believe at least one of the two lost primarchs has to be some kind of super powerful blank or pariah. And if subject 11 is indeed a primarch I believe he would be the super blank of the two as killing a powerful and useful individual such as them would be too much of a waste and his imprisonment is basically just a way to turn him into a last resort weapon should Terra ever face a chaotic invasion not seen before in the history of 40K.

First I want to say, great video. The two lost Primarchs, The Lost and The Purged or The Forgotten and The Expunged etc. Can we all come to an agreement that the Primarchs in themselves are and were a sliver reflection of the Emperor, as if the Emperor fractured himself into 20 different images of himself of 20 aspects of himself. Each one with a separate and unique role to play in the grand scheme. If we can agree on that, than let us go to the next step. Each Primarch is an aspect of the Emperor but in microcosm, the two lost Primarch are two aspects of the Emperor that the Emperor may not want the rest of the universe know about or they themselves are or could be direct opponents to his grand Scheme either being to closely in thinking like the Emperor or in complete opposition to him. Meeting one could be so like the Emperor that the Emperor worried that he had made his own usurper without the usurper knowing that they were going to be a usurper later in time and the other would fight me at every step or be that thorn in his side every single day. One openly opposing him while the other covertly/ unconscious opposing him. So the Emperor, being the Emperor eliminated them before things got out of hand. Some would say, "Well, if he knew that about the 2nd and the 11th, what about Horus? Why wait and allow Horus to do all that what he did?!?" Simply, Horus was pushed over the "edge" by Chaos where the 2nd and the 11th weren't. Its the difference between ticking time bombs and a pressure switch mine. One is preset to go off after a perset time the other needs someone or something to push on the pressure plate. The 2nd and 11th could have been seen as Clear and Present Dangers while the others were seen as problems for another time. Just my opinions 😊

If the Legions were sparred, then it is may well be a near certainty that some of those 2nd/3rd founding chapters and chapters formed from them that are officially born from the Ultramarines were almost certainly actually carrying the geneseed of the lost legions.

All the redundancy in Primarch abilities but nobodies really a match for Magnus. This makes me think one of the Lost and Purged must be another super psychic.

Lost primarch theory People know that there are two lost primarchs, but no one knows what truly has happened with them. And so here’s my hypothesis & thoughts along with it, the reality behind the curtains. *Hypothesis* *1.* My first hypothesis is that The lost primarchs were a wayward reinforcement or free survivors. So a while ago, I had a thought that the lost primarchs were Emperor’s plan of saving the humanity from the brink of the annihilation. I hypothesized that Emperors would wage war upon the ruinous powers. Which would end in either weakening of humanity or the end of both ruinous powers & humanity. If the weakening of the Emperium would have happened, the Emperium would have required new forces to combat the ruinous powers, to continue & win the war. Which is exactly where the lost primarchs would come in. Emperor would create two primarchs and send them off, into another galaxy. To conquer it and return back to the milky-way Galaxy when the time is right. They would return as a reinforcement to the emperium in its dire time. Or the lost primarchs would perhaps return as the free humanity, who would reclaim the legacy, left by Emperium after the war with ruinous powers. When both sides no longer exist. In order for this to go as planned, Emperor, changed, altered and erased the memory of everyone else. Making everyone belive that the lost primarchs were either traitors or failures. Who were executed & expunged out of the imperial records. All of that made as a backup plan for the survival of the humanity as a race. *2.* [Warning! This is a mad theory] After watching this video, I’ve come up with another hypothesis. A hypothesis about Emperor locking away 11th primarch for the future. The Lost primarchs number is 11, subsequently it is also a sacred number of a Lost God called Malal, also known as Malice. Considering that there is a jail-chamber under emperor’s palace, with the number 11. It could have been that the 11th primarch. I hypothesis that the 11th primarch became a champion or a prince or an avatar of the lost God, Malal, also known as Malice. Which could have happened when the warp rift were opened in the lab with tubes that contained the Primarchs. Or perhaps the when scattering occurred. 11th were locked up to be cured later. When the war with the ruinous powers are over and said powers are no more. So by that logic, the warp powers within the 11th should be neutralized. Warp would still be within him, but would not have a tremendous effect. That is, if the Emperor’s plan was to kill ruinous powers by starvation. However, there is another possibility. And this is where “God Emperor” comes into the picture. Emperor locked up the 11th primarch, for the future. Because Emperor secretly knew that he must become a God in order to save humanity. As it is the only one way. So he tricked everyone into believing that he does not want to become a God. Which means that the Emperor deliberately & purposely cause the destruction of Monarchia. In order for Lorgar to betray the Emperor and subsequently make Emperium religious. Emperor knew that he must become a God, not only to save the humanity but also to cleanse the 11th. The cleansing would have happened By replacing an essence a God within 11th. For example, if 11th would have the essence of Malice within him, than the Emperor would have replaced it with his own. That would occur when Emperor would have become a God. All of that, in order for the 11th to be bound to Emperor and not a chaos God, for him to be a loyalist. (Bit of explanation. If a living being within Warhammer 40k is a vessel. Then it can fit in both the essence of a God and the warp powers. Example would be Mortarion, the primarch of the Death Guard. He is filled with warp powers but has elements of Nurgle within him. I believe that is done through imbuing Mortarion with essence of Nurgle. Thus granting, said elements of the nurgle, specifically Mortarion’s wings.) However, this also raises a lot of question. Specifically, why did Emperor lock up the 11th in a jail and not kill him. I believe that he could kill him because of three reasons. The first reason is that the 11th is his son. And so Emperor couldn’t kill the 11th Because he is his father. Which is the reason why he could not have brought an end upon the 11th. The second reason is subsequent of the first one, which is, that if Emepror would have killed his own son, as such action would have led to rebellion and revolt amongst people of the emperium. And so the emperium would have met its demise shortly after its birth. The Third reason is, Emperor couldn’t kill his 11th son, but could let him roam the galaxy. Because if one of the primarchs are a spawn of warp (a demon prince or what have you.), than the people of the emeprium would have questioned the both authority and competence of the Emperor. Thus causing quite a stir, as such would have caused a Emperium to stand upon a shaking ground. Which would lead to its demise in the long run. If the 11th would roaming the Galaxy and being a spawn of warp. It would be the spark that would ignite a keg full of gunpowder, a keg of riots and rebellions. Along with ruinous powers & warp effecting people of the emperium. As for the 2nd primarch, he could has been killed by the 11th, which is why there are no records of him. Emperor decided to expunged him too as it would hidden the truth about 2nd demise & 11th being a spawn of warp. In order to avoid the shaking ground that would have lead to the demise o the emperium. **The Reallity of it all.** But the reality is far less complex and way more boring. Both GW and Fandom are lost & confused about the two primarchs. Regarding the Fandom, people will always speculates and come up with own theories for what have happened with the primarchs. And what have the lost primars done to deserve to be expunged and executed. Or why there are no records of them anywhere. But no one will know for sure. Regarding GW, it also has information about the lost primarchs. Both within the WH40k universe and outside said universe. The reason to that is that the lost primarchs are a reference to the two ancient Roman companies. Those companies were annihilated and it is not known by who, the company numbers were lost to the history. And I suspect, since there are nothing about the lost companies that are left within the history. GW simply has nothing to write about the lost primarchs. As a conclusion to this. Of course this leaves A LOT of free space for the fantasy, but considering that GW, at this point, are confused about primarchs I doubt that they ever would create something them.

I like to think that one was a pacifist... which the emperor might see as the ultimate crime. This primarch could have been a good hearted paragon unwilling to take even a xenos life. And his crime is a ceasefire and unwillingness to massacre defenseless xenos and their human friends. The second one should be some sort of abnormality. Like a blank that threatens even the emperor. It wouldn't be hard to see why you might lock up your son if that son could someday yield a sword against you and all your psychic might would be for nothing.

My headcanon is that the lost Primarchs have incredible psychic powers that rival even the Emperor himself, so much so that they may have foreseen the events of the future, including the Horus Heresy, kinda like Dr. Strange with the Time Stone. Since knowledge of everything would obviously cause the Crusade to halt, the Emps and the other brothers sealed them away and simply let the future run its course before the two revealed information on the critical junctures of the future. The Terminus Decree, therefore, might just probably be an order to release the two Primarchs and have them use their New Game + Full Game Walkthrough powers to speedrun everything and save the Imperium.

I think they'd be kept in stasis like Guilleman was so the 11th Primarch would more than likely not have aged a day since imprisonment. Easier to handle if you're put to sleep and kept asleep.

One of the lost primarchs posed a threat even more grave than Horus My guess is some AI and STC shenanigans

I have a theory, the lost Primarchs were among the firsts found by the Emperor, BUT they were already corrupted by the forces of Chaos or other entities, so they were locked away so no one could know about what happened to them, and to keep the secret well hidden because of the possible consequences this could bring to the wider Imperium and the other Primarchs.

I think mystery about these two Primarch was nice when we player can create own SM chapter. But now I think most people nodays want to know the lore and story. I think that GW should tell the story and maybe using it to present 40k lore. If Curze, Alpharius, Omega and Horus are dead then CSM can get new primarch in their collection.

In the art that Malcador is seated upon a Throne(not the Golden Throne) also there are two skulls with the numbers II and XI.

I run and write a Homebrew chaos undivided legion. And there leader is a fallen custody. So I'm absolutely loving all the stuff you're laying down.

Malcador finding Dorn at the door of the mancave he spent the last 2 milleniums setting up, sending remembrancer throughout the galaxy to find such treasures as the Xbox 20K 4D, the Nintentony Livestaswitch 600, the full set of Premier League trading card for the 3520- 3521 season... "oh bugger, I can not catch a break, can I?"

The last mention of the II and his legion was the Rangdan Xenocides. I think he and most if not all of his legion was destroyed in the conflict. But nothing has ever been revealed about the XI or his legion as well. The XI could have refused the Emperor outright and even if he was stolen away like Angron and still refused to join the Emperor. Rather then let a Primarch run free across the galaxy he may have been sealed in the Vaults of Terra. His legion may have been put to the sword by the Wolves when they rebelled after they chose to follow their Primarch.

Maybe it's something else totally, they died because big E f'd up hard and now he regret, he kept their stuff like a parent would, would explain why the legions where spared and also intense grief and anger against big E could explain why he wiped the memory from the other primarchs

I love the character basilio fo from the siege of Terra books he is by far one of the most interesting and well written new characters

You sir, have been putting out consistently great content for quite some time. Always great analysis and explanation of the WH universe with a great voice. Now, I've been thinking about making this suggestion for a while, but I know it could perhaps come off wrong. Believe me: that's not my intent. You're already doing amazing stuff. That being said: I would love to hear what an episode would sound like in your own 'flow'. The voice is so good, but sometimes it tends to 'over-emphasize' every sentence. That's totally unnecessary: the content is so good, we believe you! Again: coming from a place of love for what you're doing. And maybe I'm seeing this all wrong, but hearing a lot of episodes these past months I really thought about that a lot. It would just be that extra-x-factor. Thanks!

I don't think they're jailed, I think they're working clandestinely. The other Primarchs were mind wiped so they could not, even under psychic torture, give up their brothers' missions.

I like to think one got exiled/escaped from the emperor for working with Xenos.

Okay, given how much it took for the Emperor to be willing to kill Horus… I don’t think he’d kill them or let them die (if he could at all help it). I also have trouble seeing geneseed problems (which seems like it’d only be a problem for a legion) being a reason to kill or imprison a PRIMARCH unless it was something that affected the primarch themself very badly. So, the way I see it, either they are imprisoned for breaking some rule (perhaps refusing to fight or some mental issue that was so bad even big E wasn’t willing to use them in combat), literally just going missing into the warp or deep space, or were killed by something else… I have trouble seeing anything at that point in time really killing them though, save another primarch or a very anti-climactic ship malfunction… So I have to imagine that if they are dead then those cells have their bodies or they’re alive and in stasis or agreed to stay there and are living a life of luxury… (or maybe one of them got nabbed by the dark eldar… which I shudder at the thought of) plot twist, they were Alpharius and Omegon all along! Or other plot twist: the terminus protocol lets them out of their cages.

Malcador and Dorn, singing: “We don’t talk about Two no, no no no…”

I was considering the possibility of the Emperor to posses bodies of one of the lost primarchs.

This whole plot is dripping with Alpharius shenanigans

Back in the late nineties I was reading White Dwarf and they had an Mechanics working on a stasis container with a black armored flame adorned space marine. He is trying to puzzle out the readings on this and the other stasis container’s and an Inquisitor comes down to see how it coming along. There was some dialog and then the adept realizes and says a loud something along the lines of, the reading are false, they are not sleeping but actually dead. That is when the Inquisitor says something like that is the problem with us getter he the best techs and then he shoots him in the back of the head.

One of lost primarch must have embodied the Emperors Will for War. The other probably embodied the Emperors Ambitious Will. That’s why they had to lock them away.

It's been written that the Emperor built redundancies among the abilities of the Primarchs; the siegecraft of both Dorn and Perturabo, for example. In that sense, there is no other truly great psyker other than Magnus. And with all of the psychic traps in that section of the palace, I think it's an excellent chance that Number 11 was the other great Psyker. I'm pretty confident about that being the truth.

I had one of my missing primarchs called Voltan and he was jailed by the emperor because he kept argueing with the emperor on exterminating Alien species. He kept argueing that some Aliens would make excellent allies rather destroying them out right. In the end Voltan went behind the Emperors back and saved some Aliens races and kept them safe in his zones of compliance but the Emperor found out and sent Horus to bring him back for trail and Russ to destroy the Alien races saved by Voltan. It was Horus and Russ that convinced the Emperor not to destroy Voltans legion as Voltan had surrended his legion over to Horus and Russ with out a fight as he did not want to fight his Brothers due to him loving them both. Voltan excepted his punishment and his legion was split up and spread among the other legions. My other primarch was called Genggis Hadesaki and he was a very brutal priatelord and had a massive space fleet befor he joining the Emperor. He was also a bit of a skitso and very brutal but some times kind and he was know for stealing from the other legions he was also know for giving gifts to his brothers and then argueing with them and the Emperor on every thing regarding space fleets. But he did admire Horus and it was only Horus that Genggis would sort of listen to. His down fall came when he had argued with some of his brothers regarding a complaince of a world and when in his eyes the complance was reciveing stiff resitance he basicly said i told you all to do it my way and you all refused so he refused to aid his brothers in the battle its only that Ferrus came to there aid that disaster was prevented Genggis was orderd to meet the emperor but he refused and destroyed the ship bearing the message. So Horus was sent and Genggis done the unthinkable and fired on Horus fleet resulting in a mega space battle. The Battle lasted a month of hit and run and all out assults but in the end Genggis flag ship went super nova with all hands onboard his fleet was destroyed or captured and some think Genggis escaped in a small skiff but most belive he died on his flagship screaming insults at Horus and then pleading via vid screen befor his ship went super nova. Either way he has never been seen since.

Linguistically, how they are referred to in lore is very telling. The "Purged" implied they were completely excised - destroyed, and all vestiges expunged. It's heavily implied in various sources that the 2nd transgressed to the point that no legionnaire was allowed to continue living - the exact nature was unknown, whether a contamination, mutation or defect - but it was most likely NOT a rebellion or traitorous act. Whatever it was, it was: -> Ubiquitous. -> Inherent. -> Contagious. -> Dangerous, even to Primarchs, maybe even the Emperor. We known this because gradual changes like the "Red Thirst," which is a slow process, and not universal in the Blood Angels, was enough to cause Sanguinius to fear they would suffer the same fate - however, was not prevalent enough to cause the Emperor to extinguish the B.A's. Likewise, the "change" the Thousand Sons underwent was certainly prevalent enough, but still did not rise to the level of danger as to be a threat - as the thousand that remained unaltered were saved and allowed to continue to operate by the Emperor. Even the Space Wolf mutation turning Asartes into Wolfen was largely ignored. Whatever their flaw was, it warranted the same treatment as malignant cancer - not just a removal of the Primarch, but a total purge ensuring it could not threaten the Imperium. The "Forgotten" is only ever used in the singular, as if it referred to a singular being. This implies the 11th had their Primarch "removed" (but not necessarily killed) but not that the legion itself had to be exterminated. Many books reference the Ultramarines as having swelled in numbers coinciding with that period, the insinuation being the non-offending legionnaires were close enough in ideology and culture to be able to be absorbed by the Ultramarines and continue to operate in cohesion. This raises a scenario that maybe the 11th is not only alive, but is known about and is active in some way. Given that the Ultramar concept and ideological root is Romanesque (what if the Roman civilisation had progressed and remained dominant into the modern era?), there does exist a contemporary parallel that mirrors such a real-world mythos - the Minotaurs Chapter. They are an unknown chapter, springing up suddenly at the behest and control of the Lords of Terra. Their iconography and customs are that of an Ancient Grecian civilisation advanced to a modern setting - specifically a Cretian motif with a very Spartan idiom. What if the 11th's homeworld was near enough to Macragge that their absorption into the Ultramar Empire was virtually unnoticed, and their culture and practices, being Grecian analogues instead of Roman, were close enough that the adoption of Ultramarine livery was not distinct enough for the Astartes of other legions to immediately differentiate between a "Minos" Ultramarine and a "Macragge" Ultramarine? How close is an "Athenian" ideal to the "Pax Romana" style governance of Guilliman? The modern iteration of the Minotaurs have many factors that lead me to believe they could very well be a chapter created by the Lords of Terra from 11th Primarch gene-seed, trained and marshalled by the 11th Primarch himself. They are exceedingly efficient and effective, being characterised by brutality, but never rising to atrocity. This is how I imagine a 40K galaxy would view a 30k Astartes. A modern chapter, trained by their Primarch, with a Great Crusade mindset would certainly fit such a description. The driving ideology the Minotaurs are motivated by would certainly match a Grecian idiom, if Sparta and Dacia were in ascendance, and the philosophy and culture of Athens had no influence on their development. The members themselves are also disdainful and scornful of other Imperial subjects and forces. Almost like the view of a once great and proud nation that no longer has a place, no longer has the part of their psyche that entertained philosophy, but is given over fully to a militaristic mindset. Being "purer" and taught by their progenitor, the soldiers would take on the "Grecian" themes of their Primarch's homeworld, and they themselves would feel "above" their 40k equivalents. Their brooding and their melancholy certainly fits a group who's father has been stripped of honour, glory and homeworld, but had not turned traitor and never been executed. They also take to the field utilising wargear that a 30k general would be more familiar with - Tartaros-Pattern Terminator suits and Spartan Assault tanks. All of their Dreadnaughts are Contemptor-pattern. They move as one chapter, as a whole whenever possible, or with as few divisions as possible - much like a legion would. All in all, their deployment and loadout resembles that of a Horus Heresy era legion and not a 40k Chapter. ___________________________________ Regarding the separate apartments: it seems unlikely that an entirely new structure, with entirely new apartments would be constructed and furnished AFTER the 2nd and 11th had been Purged and Forgotten, separate and distinct from the rest. If the Lake Retreat was built after they had been expunged, why bother to build them at all, if they were never going to be occupied? The plinths were still there, so it's not like having 2 empty residences in the lake retreat would be unusual for the others either, or they could have been simply demolished. It seems much more likely that the 2nd and 11th residences were created concurrently with the others, and deliberately constructed that far away from the others. They were always intended to be removed from the others. They were never "relocated," their quarters were exactly where they were always intended to be. Something about the 2 lost Primarchs was dangerous or harmful to the others. Then we have a Iron Fists Librarian able to sift through the psychic traps of either the Emperor or Malcador in order to gain access. Maybe I'm over-egging the Emperor's pudding, but Magnus would be the only one who would come close, surely. A Librarian, especially from a legion not exactly renown for their psychic prowess, should not have been able to get past them... unless they weren't directed at intruders. What if they were designed to keep something IN, and had the residual effect of making access difficult? What if the 2 residences were intended to segregate, partition and contain the 2 Primarchs after they had served their intended purpose?

What if the two lost primarchs were intentionally wiped from the memories of everyone like the Sentry from Marvel Comics? What if they were to be released as part of the terminus decree? Or were back up weapons?

The Dark Cells sound like they hold all sorts of objects that belong in Trazyn's museum

😁🤟 I like the mystery the two lost sons. The XI must be potent enough to warrant an incarceration for this long even the Emperor decided to take his chance keeping Angron or Curze instead.🤔 Maybe, the XI has some involvement of disbanding the II that cuase some kind of breakdown or open up in XI later, and too risky to wake him up during the the HH event without a close supervision by the Emperor. I read GW's post about the shattered II legion prior to your vids. Intriguing speculation as ever Wolf Lord.

My interest on 40k lore has NEVER been at this high of a peak... now I really want to know what's behind those doors.

One line in one book...in a world of retcons and um actually's galore, THIS is the type of speculation we deserve lol

Now i wonder if they saw something of the future with Chaos and the Heresy and if they had some way to fight it but the Emperor realized this had to happen so he kept them on ice until they where REALLY needed. Just a thought I could be totally wrong lol. Would love to find out one day