IS CONSTANTIN VALDOR A PRIMARCH? COULD HE DEFEAT ONE IN COMBAT? 

I always figured Valdor was the Custodian version of Sigismund. He’s just so good he can beat things he shouldn’t have a chance against.

Constantin may have the blueprint for the Primarch physiology, without any warp shenanigans: "Russ drew up to Valdor then. He was a little shorter, much broader, his armour stained and smeared where Valdors was pristine" (Heralds of the siege, P:331)

Yes he can match intelligence, he prolly doesn’t have hang ups so many primarchs had. Big E had a great love for Valdor no doubt.

Interesting. Remember that Custodes always let their opponent live longer so they can learn everything they can about their fighting style, just in case another of their kind turns up

I think Constantin Valdor was the last remaining descendant of the men of gold, the perfect humans, perfected by genetic engineering just before the dark age of technology. That’s why the emperor went to such an effort to find him. Now take the perfect human and give him the the Custodies treatment and you get the greatest human warrior. More perfect than even other custodies who are already pretty much the pinnacle of humanity

My understanding is that the Custodes are all each individually created, similar to a Primarch, but without the "special sauce" (e.g. trip to the warp) that went into the Primarch process. So they are vastly beyond Space Marines which are just simply genetically enhanced warriors with geneseed from their respective Primarchs. And similar to Primarchs in the sense that they are individually created and not dependent on geneseed. In terms of abilities, they are generally less than. Valdor is written as an exceptionally capable Custodes, similar to a Chapter Master of a Space Marine chapter being an exceptional Astartes. The biggest difference is that the Primarchs were designed and intended to sire their respective Legions, whereas a Custodes is their own unique warrior, considered insufficient to sire their own Legion but exceptional enough in their own right to be the Emperor's personal bodyguards. Because they do not originate a Legion or produce geneseed, I don't think they're literally Primarchs, but they are all more similar to Primarchs than Astartes.

No Alpharius fought him to a standstill without power armor, he did beat Horus during a sparring match, but as that was sparring you know. I have dabbled into the idea that Valdor may be some type of demi-primarch to the custodes, but think the Zeroth or proto primarch.

I feel like Alpharius' secretive nature tends to make people underestimate him both in and out universe. He has so few fights, but one of them is going toe to toe with Dorn, and having a pretty good showing.

I got the impression Valdor could have beaten Alpharius but was testing and evaluating his quarry, given hiow close he got to BigE.

In terms of powers and intelligence? Yes. However, in he matter of soul stuff, no. What makes Primarchs special is their souls and their powers. When making primarchs, Emps basically made his own version of greater deamons/minor warp entities. They are independent beings, while Custodes are basically Emp’s, well, deamons. Custodians are unable to rebel against Emperor, just the same way lesser demons are unable to rebel against their gods, but greater deamons like Skarbrand have the power and free will to rebel becuase they got enought warp juice to do it. Simple as.

Valdor is the Emperor’s favorite son. He was chillin with the Big E and Malcador - the Big E’s BFF - for the longest. Makes sense that Valdor is Primarch of the Golden Legion

No hes not a primarch as we know them, I always thought maybe he was an actual grandson or descendant of the emperor which is why the Emperor went so out of his way to get him. He might have been some kind of test run or something. BUT what we do know is he is more than "just a custodes" and that alone is huge. I do think he could probably beat Lorgar and maybe Alpharius.

Though I am a space wolf through and through, Valdor along with Sanguinius are 2 characters in the Imperium I highly respect. Valdor has his flaws, but he means business and commands respect from all without needing to enforce it. Does he command the same authority as a primarch, yes. Is he one, no. He's a different creation of the Emperor entirely. For me this is what I see him as and why he has my upmost respect. FOR THE RUSS! 🐺🤘

Imagine being the Emperor, and using the totality of your millenia of talent, skill, learning and psychic warp powers to create the primarchs. Going so far as to make deals with the gods of chaos. And at the same time, finding out that a human child was born into existence that was just a smidge less amazing then your 20 artificial god clones. You'd want to see it and possess it. Valdor is the pinnacle of human physiology, and the custodes are very likely picked from candidates that most closely resemble him in whatever genetic traits are necessary.

I've always thought of Valdor as the ultimate example of humanity, a 1 in a trillion chance of many generations of genetics coming together naturally to produce the perfect human which gave the Emperor the idea to create his own versions of perfection, the Primarchs. No idea how this would fit in with the timeline but it's my head cannon.

He could probably beat a decent handful of them in sparing contests, Dorn or Guilliman or Lorgar, but I really think it's a matter of intent. If the Primarchs wanted to kill him, they likely could. And if Valdor wanted to slay them, he would likely struggle.

I think valdor could have been the emperor’s first son. His first naturally born son. So he wasn’t designed from the beginning. Only upgraded once he was found.

I always just thought that the Lost Primarchs were just Valdor and Omegon. I'm sticking with that belief until they reveal the Lost Primarchs.

***makes sense as to why Malchador would force choke Horus before speaking his name. Valdor has early memories of the emp speaking to him. The emp reprogrammed and made him forget his origin. Or he could be the PRIME of the Custodes

But, what REALLY happened? Did Alpharius ever actually fight Valdor? Did he really not wear power armor? Do we take Alpharius at his word on ANY subject? These questions need to be settled. I must emphasize, we are told a story about Alpharius, by Alpharius. What do we really know?

Yes or biological son of the Big E. If you know what happens during the Unification of Terra then you know Big E values Big V...ALOT.

Would Valdor come out on top? We already know the answer, he did. Success isn't only measured in combat prowess, & although a great warrior, that wasn't his purpose. The Primarch's were built to lead the Space Marines & conquor the galaxy. Valdor was meant for greater challenges. The fact that his reputation remains is evidence that he was the best of all the Emperor's warriors.

It would make sense the Emperor would have the foresight to place a hidden primarch as a secret safeguard.

If Khaldor Drago can, I believe in Valdor's skills as well. As to whether he is a Primarch, I think not.

Well, alpharius easily would have s studied valdor before he decided to attack. So he learned his movements and training

I am happy to see my friend brotha David's artwork in your videos!

I think he’s on the level of a primarch, but he’s not a primarch. His physiology is likely as different to a primarch as a custodes is different from an Astartes. To me, Custodians are just humans at the apex of our natural physical evolution. A good example of this can be found in Issac Amisovs “The final question” Where as space marines and Primarchs have organs of cybernetic means

“Constantine is a primarch” Rogal Dorn: it is not gringe father, it is keg!

It’s weird to say this, but I never thought about CV could be a Primarch. Great idea.

Could he beat some Primarchs? Probably. However, I'd say there are at least five that could either fight him to a close match or outright kill him.

I personally think Valdor is the only non-psycher biological son of the Emperor, possibly used as the template for future Custodes. In that sense, he could be called the Primarch of the Custodes.

I think the time a World Eaters marine punches straight through a Custodes's Auramite armor and through his carapace into his chest. Followed closely by Angron holding up a titan foot.

I think Valdor is one of the 4 original primarchs, the protoprimachs. I also harbor suspicions that he might be some form of blank or Pariah that has control over his ability.

Think of it this way, the primarchs and space marines potentially could have been replaced and thrown to the side by the big E. He never ever seemed like he would do that to our golden boys and Valdor. A space marine is to a human what a custodes is to a space marine. Therefore that same line of thinking should include Valdor.

He could possibly beat a Primarch due to his skill, he could possibly get a decapitation or something. But I think he probably loses more often than not. The Primarchs are too op, angron lifted a titan off himself, logar took a direct plasma hit from a titan main gun, their bodies are just too much

It'd be cool if there was a temporal, causal loop type of thing where he was one of the two lost Primarchs who was scattered not just across space but back in time to before Unification. That could explain why the Emperor sought him out specifically, because he psychically recognized something very special about him. Then, realizing he was creating a child Valdor with the other Primarchs while adult Valdor already existed, having foreseen them being scattered by the Warp and needing to hide the influence of the Warp and his own foresight into the matter, he expunged that Primarch from the records and clouded every's memories.

A Valdor vs clone Horus might be interesting, primarch have these god like souls taken from the warp that both Valdor and Horus's clone lack and Abaddon actually defeated the Horus clone so if the Despoiler can i believe Valdor can too

If certain theories are to be believed then that was Omegon(Alpharius) who has the same powers as Big E. That is alot to unpack for what it could mean in the fight and the lore at large. Valdor could make perfect precision strike but if his target isn’t actually what he sees then he may never land a blow. Alpharius claims to be unarmored but he also says it’s all a lie, and has the ability to make people see what he wants them to see. He was the first primarch found well before Horus and trained by Malcador and the Emperor, supposedly. Omegon (real Alpharius) could potentially be second only to the emperor but will never allow people to see his divinity or unlimited power.

Valdor vs sanguinius definitely not, he would have to take on one of the less combat savy ( I say that but they are all beasts haha ) primarchs

I think Thunder Warriors would have a few choice words about him.

“I cant think of anybody that can say a bad thing about valdor” - well given that he was instructed to bring magnus back in chains and instead went all executioner on the thousand sons. Spending the strength of both legions. I would say he’s more than a little bit a muppet!

Chaos and Horus: gets to the palace Palace: Happy Custodian noises.

I honestly love the facts that your voice isn't super sped up, but maybe it's too slow haha, but I love a nice chill voice

The only Primarch I think Valdor could beat is Lorgar.I think the others would be too much for him. Great video, definitely gets you thinking about the possibilities.

Valdor is arguably the best non-Primarch Space Marine/Custodes, but *he's no Primarch.* Valdor's wariness about Rogal Dorn in _Nemesis_ (due to Dorn's annoyance about the secrecy of the Assassin Clades), and the fact that a less experienced and unarmoured Alpharius outmatched him (while he was wearing armour) count heavily against him. P.S. What's with people sleeping on Lorgar like their favourite matress? Gulliman is widely considered about average amongst the Primarchs in combat ability but he and Lorgar fought each other to a standstill in _Nemesis_ (and, no, Lorgar wasn't even using his psychic powers against Gulliman either). Even if we assume _all_ the other Primarchs would either defeat or tie with Lorgar (in pure combat, perhaps more would defeat him than not, by varying margins), that *does not imply that Valdor has a chance against him.* Even though he is the "runt of the litter" he still tanked a Titan's plasma cannon to the face. 🤷‍♂️

It wasnt that soon after Horus was found as the line is actually about Russ not taking the Custodians that seriously however when watching Valdor fight Horus his opinion shifted. For me if you impress Russ with your combat skill that says something!

The valdor and alpharius conflict was actually a test sent by the emperor, he knew Valdor wouldn't die but told him to go a little hard. I know this because some Bro in the local saloon on domanansihk told me.

Valdor was around before the Primarch project. He was around when the 20 capsules were “stolen” away from the Emperor.

It isn’t even a question in my opinion. There’s 20 (18) primarchs for a reason. It would be silly to have 10k troops almost as strong or as strong as primarchs. So I’m good with keeping primarchs levels above custodes in every way (even the best of the custodes) due to how few of the primarchs there are.

I always thought of Valdor as the 'Primarch" of the Custodes, and because the Custodes are more powerful than individual Astartes...

“I can’t think of anyone who hasn’t anything bad to say about Constantin Valdor” *Rogal Dorn has entered Chat*

Valdor fighting a primarch would be like a JCB that can move its hydraulic arms at the speed of sound fighting a CAT loader that can more quicker

Fun piece of trivia that Rho missed here. Valdor didn’t fight Alpharius. He fought Omegon. The first 2 lines of that novel are, “I am Alpharius. This is a lie”. The book is told from the perspective of Omegon, who refers to himself as Alpharius throughout the book, but tells you with those first two lines that he’s actually Omegon. It’s done to make a point.

I think the Alpharius fight was mischaracterised here somewhat. Valdor broke through Alpharius's guard pretty much immediately, then Alpharius changes tactics and tries to attack. In the time it took alpharius to stab once, Valdor stabbed, drew his spear back, parried, and turned on the spot. After the fight even Valdor calls Alpharius "almost a match". The fact that Alpharius acknowledged that Valdor is incapable of arrogance lends credence to it too. I don't think Alpharius being inexperienced is a factor either, because primarchs are born with their skills. Perturabo understands machines he's never had explained to him and Alpharius said it felt like he was born to hold a spear or some such.

Reminds me of Mephiston - in the books (I think Darkness in the Blood) they say his psychic prowess was on par with a Primarchs, high praise.

If it came down to a fight the emperor would definitely be watching great video 👍

My theory is Valdor Could be a prototype Primark, like the Thunder-Warriors were for the Astartes but not unstable, and why the Emperor went to so much effort to obtain him is most likely down to him being present in the visions of the future, where he wipes out the chaos as he would go to pretty much any length to do so, for all we know the BigE know he would become the king in yellow and may even be part of his plan all along

I’ve been wondering the same thing about Constantine since reading Penitent.

In Primarch combat a few seconds is a very very long time!

Lorgar was found as a child by "The Declined" on Colchis. Kor Phaeron beat him as a child and when he realized how special and resilient Lorgar was, he had the guards beat him with mauls. I'm not saying you're wrong based on this though. I agree completely with your thoughts on him.

I've always thought that Valdor was made to be the last line of defence against everything including primarchs. I don't think we've ever seen him go all out. I know he predates them but the emperor seems to have always planned on them, so it makes sense he would have a final safeguard.

It would be a close fight. And that says alot.

7:09 uuuuuh. He was with his legion from their inception. Spreading their webs over the growing imperium from the very beginning.

From everything i've ready about Constantin and the Custodes and Primarchs - no he's not a Primarch not at all. Is he strong enough to defeat or kill one? Absolutely he could. He is the Big E's weapon turned into a person - manipulated to be the perfect commander and soldier and constantin KNOWS THIS BUT DOESN'T CARE. He was given a spear that FORCES YOU TO SEE THE LIFE OF THE THING YOU SLAYED - every demon or thing he kills he takes upon their memories and ESSENCE and he is still WHOLE. He is STRONGER then a Primarch in almost every-single-way. He's jusut missing that key component that makes them-them the warp shenanigans because of that though he is uncorruptable and will fight until his bitter end.

Somewhat off topic, but why have you dropped the “Wolflord” part of your name? Thanks again for the wonderful videos!

It would be interesting see him take on the Lion.

He is basically the personal body guard of the emperor he could easily teabag half the primarch’s. The emperor searched for him specifically and developed him specifically to be his right hand, he is better then most in combat and also smarter then most of them.

Hello Wolf Lord!! Off topic here, but was wondering if you could do a video about the newest Warhammer game with the Grey Knights and Burgle....apparently the GK are trying to stop "the bloom" and I was wondering if there is anything in the lore about this or if it's something new that GW have come up with for this game?

The reason you can't find the quote about Valdor beating Horus in a sparring match is because I made it up years and years ago on Wikipedia. I got removed constantly and I simply kept editing it back in. I did the same with Russ and Sangiunius as well. Username was Thor12 if I remember correctly haha pretty sure I got blocked or banned. I was always getting told to add in proof. I did this over the course of a good couple of years when the blacklibrary forum was active...I was a fanyboy. People always ref it now so it's officially cannon 😃

Valdor may be like a Primarch in many ways but keep in mind that he was born like a normal human from a mother and father as opposed to the Primarchs themselves all being grown from just a clump of cells. I believe Constantin even comments on watching these cells dividing, multiplying and getting bigger in the book "Valdor, Birth of the Imperium." I'm of the mind that Valdor is a freak example of the next step of human evolution that Big E has been so fiercely trying to hurry the creation of. Constantin was just an odd happenstance that happened randomly but the Emperor was able to recognize (perhaps with his psychic abilities) hence all the effort Emps went through to aquire Valdor.

He's a primearch killer. At least that's what I think he was made for. The time when the emperor turns on the space Marines just like he did the thunder warriors he had slaughtered. Custodes exist to clean up the mess 😂

Would you mind citing the sources for all these rumors? I'm interested to go take a look myself.

I don't know much about Valdor. But the fact that he's been alive for so long and not slowing down (to my knowledge) tells me he's something else. Possibly a love child between the emperor and an eldar since no one else could communicate with him psychically he found a soul mate. Also custodes armor resembles banshee armor.

For me Valdor is top tier... Physically and Mentally capable as any of the Primarchs, with the plus of being more experience. But one thing I do believe Valdor lacks, is the "Primarch Aura" the one capable of inspire, make people few awe, fear... What make the Primarchs "perfect generals" wasn't only their ability to fight, but their ability to lead and/or well use some warp fuckery to do the job.

So I read the comments and someone made a few good points. He could be a Proto Primarch template without the warp meddling. Yes each Custodes is an individual creation but they still follow a similar template of creation i.e. modification, extra organs, etc, which is t then altered to suit the man. Don't forget that in situations like the Dark Angels. Any man that was too old to go through the process to become an Astares, went through a genetic modification process that got them close enough to the Space Marine template. This was also good enough to make Luther powerful enough to all but beat the Lion. So circling back around to if Valdor could beat a Primarch. I would say the answer would be yes. But which one is the question. My money would be on him absolutely clapping Lorgar. The Lion would be next on the list for the reasons above.

It was said he could go toe to toe with the smaller Primarchs but honestly I can't see him taking out the big ones like Russ, Angron, Sangy etc

Here’s a theory Valdor was the first Primarch the original template for the others before warp special sauce, the last natural born perpetual or a sensei or a combination of all three

im seeing the lost primarchs as a kane and abel situation. one good and one evil, valdor being the good but failed to stop the other from committing an atrocity. they were then disciplined by the emperor, the evil one being destroyed and valdor loosing his title as primarch

I like how something I brought up in a Q&A months ago came back as a topic! Woot!

Chaos with plot armor plot armor is invincible Emperor: all hail the true chaos god plot armor

Don't know if he's a Primarch, but Big E was born in Anatolia (Turkey) and Constantine was born in Constantinople (Turkey). In Birth of the Imperium, its strongly implied that the Emperor launched a super secret, important mission, to recover Valdor. So perhaps he intended Valdor as a "proto Primarch" that he could upgrade, if necessary. Primaris Custodes, anyone? I fully expect a big reveal in the last two Siege of Terra books where Valdor f*cks up one of the traitor Primarchs, probably Magnus. We've had Dorn vs Fulgrim, Khan vs Mortarion, and will get Sanguinius vs Angron. Who does that leave to face Magnus? Plus, Magnus is "weakened" now, so on par with Valdor (even if he isn't a full Primarch). It makes even more sense that Valdor has the Emperor's spear, so we'll likely see flashbacks where Valdor learns the truth about Magnus's fall to chaos.

Valdor is definetly a cut above, and I think it all has to do with his secret past. If GW is finally going to explore that, then I can't wait. I used to have a theory that the primarchs were all heroes/generals from the ancient past (think Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan) who the emperor had a run in with and became friends with, thus why he brought them back as primarchs. Anyway, old theory, but I think it could still apply to Valdor. Back to the question however, I think Valdor is to the custodies what the primarchs are to the space marines. And I don't mean that in a literal sense, but a power one. I think Valdor was given a little something extra that does put him on par with the weaker primarchs.

He is the emperor's only true born son strong but not empowered by chaos

If the Hersey had been lost and the emperor was unable to leave the golden throne Valdor would have been the last line of defence between the traitors and the emperor he would have funneled eternity gate The real question how many traitors would have fallen before Valdor did

I want to see Valdor vs Fulgrim.

Valdor could be the absolute pinnacle of the process that creates the custodes. If the custodes were unique creations never to be mass produced, valdor could that but on the level of a primarch. Never to be repeated. There were 20 primarchs, but only one Constantine Valdor.

Valdor, unlike the Primarchs, was not super egotistical or arrogant as he never needed to be called “son” by the emperor to know his value, while the 21 Primarchs all needed to have their egos stroked in some capacity

It's fairly clear that when the Big E created the Primarchs there was some warp fuckery involved with each of them, resulting in various mutations and flaws within each of them. Valdor was created directly from the Big E's own genetic material, without the warp fuckery, and that is the real difference between Valdor and the Primarchs. One can argue power levels, but the Primarchs are all warp-touched and Valdor isn't. The Custodies were also created to be utterly loyal to the Big E, whereas the Primarchs due to their creation, and growing up on various planets without the Emperor all much more independent in terms of their relationship to the Big E. Valdor couldn't conceive of being disloyal, it's genetically impossible for him to do so, which also is a huge difference. I see Valdor almost as a shard of the Emperor's soul, and a physical representation of His will.

a Vindicare Assassin can kill a Primarch, so I have no doubt that given the correct circumstances Vlador could easily beat one. chances are if Valdor was required to he would do his best to position himself with every advantage possible to aid him in winning the fight. Is he a Primarch? ... well... only the emperor knows for sure and he aint talking much nowadays :D

As the Valdor/Alpharius fight was only like 3 strikes each, its very possible that Valdor simply didn't realise that there were other beings as capable as himself in combat, and therefore pulled his punches as he. assumed he was up against nothing more than an enhanced human, after all being a master warrior and tactician, he's know that it's stupid to display the full extent of his skill in the opening moves

I think you got a few things wrong from the alpharius book. Alpharius is near grown since he’s able to wear custodies armor when he performs the first blood games. Alpharius’s first battle was Astartes uprising, which means he has was always apart of crusade. Also alpharius per his own statement never had to be reunited with his legion since he had been with them since their creation and was shown the first mass produced astartes before the battle of mount ariate.

If Valdor was a primarch, it would sure as hell make since why he disappeared. They all had a habit of disappearing after the HH.

I believe he has reached his best potential and would argue that equals him out with most of the Traitor Primarchs who had that natural ability but never reached their full potential while I would argue when they joined Chaos it just enhanced their natural ability. I do think he would be near the middle of the pack of Primarchs when it comes to the overall balance as I do think he is an overall better commander than most of them and would argue he would be a better at building/expanding a civilization then most as well.

What if all the custodes are all selected from descendants of the Emperor? 38,000 years and ol' Emps never got his jam on? Even if he only had a few children at the beginning, that is potentially a huge pool to select from. Valdor could have been one who had more in common.

Would be great to see new lore from GW on how the custodians were created and why Big E chose to develop primarchs as legion commanders instead of using Custodes.

I think that Valdor and the Custodes might be an example of what the Emperor was aiming for when designing the Astartes, and may have been used as a starting point for the Primarchs.

I always liked the theory of him being the emperors bio son There is naught evidence to support that but I just want it

Last remnants of the _sensei_ lore... EDIT - On a serious note, in _Birth of the Imperium_ , isn't Valdor mentioned as "one of the Three" or some such? Meaning the Emperor, Valdor, and Malcador. Nomine Patris, Et Fili, Et Espiritus Sancti reference maybe?

Valdor was the first to fight for the Emperor, he was raised and taught by him, if there exists anyone that could emanate the sheer capability of the ruler of mankind in combat it would undoubtedly be him.

Hmm, the idea of a secret Custodian Primarch is brilliant. I mean, a cover up to create Primarch 0, one for the Custodians, makes sense.