FF7 Remake Complaints With That Guy Bis | Yggdrasil Podcast 38 

Thanks for having me on the podcast Ratatoskr! Was a pleasure :)

20:20 Nomura was not the only director for the FF7 Remake. And according to interviews with him and the other directors he was actually the one lobbying most to keep the game closer to the original. I understand it's easy to point the finger at him because he's the Kingdom Hearts guy, but all evidence suggests he was not the one responsible for the major changes to the remake.

I think Aerith’s death is a good example of why I find the direction so annoying, because one of two things will inevitably happen: Aerith will die, or she will not die. If she dies, it’ll feel like all the teasing of changing fate was pointless and was just to create artificial intrigue. If she doesn’t, it’ll be such a dramatic change to the story that it will genuinely be unrecognizable as FFVII. Neither scenario is ideal for me. If it were a straight remake with no major story changes and just a fresh coat of paint, I’d be able to look forward to how that scene gets portrayed and how it’ll affect people who haven’t played the original. I’ve got plenty of other problems but this podcast made me think about that.

I just wish they'd called the first one "rebirth" instead of "remake". Calling the second game "rebirth" is a baffling choice, considering things were reborn (so to speak) in the previous game. It would've cleared up the marketing and been a better title for the series, I would've been perfectly happy with rebirth part one, two, and three. It makes it very clear that things will be different

The issue I have with remakes, especially with video games, is that they inherently become replacements years down the line. Games almost always age worse than books, music, and movies. I understand that the original game will still exist but newcomers will undoubtedly flock to the remake because its a more modern game with a higher degree of graphical fidelity. I know that FF7 isn't a true remake but it does sell itself as one. I wonder if any of these new players will know that it's not an actual remake and if they will go back and experience the original game. I think of FF7 as one of the classic stories within the media and it would be a shame if this remake trilogy becomes the more notable FF7 experience

Never thought i would see a podcast episode with Ratatoskr and the guy who said that Radahn is the worst boss in fromsoft history

Happy with the comments here explaining some basic facts that these guys really should have known

I think a lot of people need to understand that making games has changed since the '90s. It wasn't a purely creative decision to expand and drill into moments like the tunnel claw and the ghost train. They would've spent over a year of work and 25 artists on those areas alone, to get to a modern graphical fidelity. They're forced to wring the towel and get the most they can out of these huge endeavors. It's not the '90s where 2 artists spent a few weeks making entire zones. We were NEVER going to get the entirety of FF7 in one modern game. I think they did the best with what they had.

the creation of this piece of art - the trilogy adaptation of FF7 og - is a continous process in which they are playing a magic trick on us, they are delibirately decieving us, trick us to make us have a certain experience. I believe that the experience they want us to have is one of playing FF7 for the FIRST time. if you read the script, the movie scenes arent going to hit the same - so what do you do if the script is out there? you change things - everyone is on the same page, 90% of remake was enhancing and true to form of the og. those other 10% are meant to trick us into having the same experience/story that was there at release in 97. that's the only reason I can see that makes sense, if they have reverence for OG and WANT to actually make it's remake. I don't think this was a purely corporate decision laid upon the devs and their cold hearts and cynical minds are changing things for arbitrary reason and their own selfish goals of making creative pieces of art... just look at all the chapters of remake not influenced by the whispers. and also, I compartmentalise it and separate the new stuff AS a sequel but I still recognise that they ARE remaking the events and experiences of FF7 but with a twist - in order to make things more like your first playthrough in 97. think about it, they are making Sephiroths motivations nebulous and cryptic and his powerlevels "unknown" even to players and hardcore fans of the og. losing Aerith was unexpected and happened too fast - so they are changing fate making everyone of us at least DOUBT that she is going to die. it being a trilogy, they are gong to have to somewhat resolve the nibelheim incident and Clouds crisis differently from the og. start REbirth with the flashback they are going to have to resolve it AT LEAST with Cloud finding out his retelling as Zack is a lie but in the og you don't get that until North crater... which makes me think that they are moving everything to the ancient city to make the finale super jampacked narrative wise.

The leading complaint being more or less semantics is so funny

@22:00 Maaaannnnnn, It's clear what they're setting up to do. I can't believe people cann't see it. SEPHIROTH IS GOING TO BECOME A GOOD GUY! He is fighting to change his DESTINY(break free of Jenova's control). THE THIRD VERSION OF THE TRILOGY IS GOING TO BE CALLED "REDEMPTION", because it will be Sephiroth's redemption ark.

In the ending cutscene of the OG FF7, before the lifestream pops up to stop meteor there is a Shot where marlene gets out of bed and goes "the flower girl?" before looking out the window. It seems she always had some kind of sensitivity to this kind of thing. Thing is, as far as I know, we never learn who Marlene's mother was. In addition to receiving memories from Aerith, I find it a real possibility that Marlene may turn out to be Cetra as well.

11:20 ... could you not argue thats Sephiroths role in og ff7? So many are saying stuff like he isnt supposed to be here yet... so hes only resolved at north crater, 60% into the game.... we only get to know of the reunions true purpose there... same with the whispers, we see them around like how we saw black robed figures in og and it only gets resolved much later in the game...

Looking forward to this one. As someone who enjoyed both the original and remake, it's fun to hear why people do and/or don't like the current direction of FF7R.

LMAO reading the characters wanting to avoid the original timeline’s future, which involves mass death and suffering, as a meta commentary by the writers on how they prefer their take over the original, is a REEEEEEEEEAAAAACH😂

18:00 "It just doesn't sound like Final Fantasy to me anymore" I can't think of a single Final Fantasy where the theme is defying fate. Except maybe 1, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15 and 16. But yeah. Definitely just a Kingdom Hearts thing.

1:03:09 Marlene's had that weird sense of the lifestream since the OG FF7 in the final scene. Those scenes from Remake / Rebirth trailer are just expanding on this.

27:30 wow this is actually super interesting to listen to, it makes perfect sense, it would be kind of lame to try to surpass or just recreate the old stuff, so I really like the idea of them taking liberties and doing something new, because they know it would either be wrong to try to recreate it, that it just wouldn’t work well, or because they just wanna make something new. I was pretty against this new remake rebirth stuff, but I actually am pretty excited to see what the new stuff will be and I don’t know what to expect. I also can’t wait to play as Yuffie, her animations are so cool in Integrade and I didn’t get to play that.

10:00 the only other case I can think of are the Evangelion X.0 movies, which, like ff7r, are very much just sequels that initially pretend to be a "remake of the original"

I have a different take on the marketing as someone who really liked the game. The fact that FF7R is not a remake is a plot point. Its an actual in game revelation and twist. Personally, I feel like it would not have hit me as hard if I had known about it before hand. That's why I view the misleading marketing as part of the experience. Its kinda similar to what Kojima did with MGS2.

Here's my biggest gripe about FF7R - the sidequests are absolute trash. Game would've been better without them. Same with FFXVI. Square Enix can't do sidequests. At all.

Having played FF7 in my teen years, and having been a devout FF7 fanboy since, I was pleasantly surprised with the direction FF7:Remake took. I do agree it was marketered in a particular way, as to come off like a bog standard remake, and not a reboot/reimagining, but that made the surprise of the changes actually hit. If they had called it "reboot" or "reimagined", more people would have seen this coming. I am really excited to see where the series goes.

The Racket & Clank remake of the first game also completely changed the story, for the worse.

38:11 I agree that the bombing mission was presented well, but it also ended with the first crack I noticed in the story. They make a point to show that Avalanche's bomb was not meant to be that powerful and it is revealed that Shinra actually made the explosion worse, costing many more innocent lives. I really disliked how this change affects the moral ambiguity compared to the original.

I generally agree with most of what you guys said but you did talk yourselves into a corner at the start with your arguement that it isn't a remake and then you say that nobody knows what a remake is, and that there's many different approaches to how to do a remake. I just think if you can say that nobody knows what a remake is then surely you have no right to say whether something is or isn't a remake.

This is off topic, but I'm super excited for that Etrian Odyssey video you said you were working on. Hopefully that comes to fruition!

13:09 I really didn't have that big a problem with the ending and I am a near lifelong final fantasy VII fan, at this point. I ended up receiving it as things that they initially intended to do but didn't actually have the space to convey but I could be wrong about that. It seems as though they are going out of their way to add and do all the things they wanted to do the first time around that they didn't get to and I would expect that. They made some unexpected changes and it rubbed a lot of you the wrong way but it just didn't irk me and I'm also the type to complain if something does, evidenced by my totk comments so I dunno. I get it but it also seems somehow so inconsequential overall.

"The unknow journey will continue ..." And im into it.

I'm in the position where I know enough about the original game that I knew immediately what the remake is doing, but I also never played the original game, so I'm not as attached to it. I'm fine with things going a different direction, but I do worry about it getting crazy convoluted. If there are multiple timelines (Zach is apparently in a different one than the rest of the gang) and they converge in various ways as the game goes on, I can imagine this getting very convoluted, confusing, and messy.

The remake films for evangelion actually change the story a LOT and they were the first thing I thought of when I heard you talking about how FF remake is changing things

Thank you for this! I've been ranting like a madman to my friends and family about everything you both talked about with this "Remake" FF7-1 has been my favorite game since it came out in 1997, and I play it at least once a year, and FF7-2 is a totally different game.

i dunno. the ending to the original ff7 was pretty bleak, at least from the characters' point of view (what with aerith dying and all that awful stuff that happened) so to me it makes sense in Remake for them to not want that as their future. the whole plotline is very hokey but that part at least made sense to me.

Only a single hour of complaining? Damn, you two must really love this game.

Resident Evil 4 is the perfect remake but FF7 cannot pull off the same quality from a 10 hour game compared to a 50 plus. FYI the OG FF7 ending was actually a cannon 'bad ending' so it makes sense the remake is trying to actually 'fix' things

I feel like they could save it for me if they turned it into the perfect "choices matter" type story. Like if you do everything perfect you can have the nice outcome, but they let/make you fuck it up and get Aerith killed all over again. Hell, make it a new game cycle where you can't save everyone till you have played the game 3 times (unless you play perfectly or something) and to make genuinely interesting and different story/world building depending on what events take place. I know that's a pipe dream but hey

I played OG on day one in 1997. I loved remake and I’m pumped for rebirth. Was I shocked with the changes the first time I played remake? yes. However, it didnt take away from my enjoyment. I’m pumped for rebirth. The demo was great. One question I have is how would you have wanted them to market Remake? They never said “1:1 remake” or experience the OG with modern graphics. There was no way they could’ve marketed that the game the way you guys seem to have wanted them to market it without spoiling the ending, unless they just said it was a sequel. I believe they thought it would have more impact if you didn’t know the ending would change. Also Nomura came out and said he was against the ending, particularly fighting seph, was outvoted, and finds it funny how people think he changed it. That’s the problem I have with that argument.

I'm glad I bugged Bis to hop on the podcast with you Ratatoskr, Knew you two would have a lot of interesting things to say!

18:14 I suppose I also never expected it to be a one-to-one remake - there was never really a time where I ever had the notion that it would ever be the exact same game where they didn't change it massive amounts so i guess my personal expectation didn't make it sting so much? I was a bit bummed as well that it was not a one to one because that's what I wanted as well - especially on the soundtrack - but again, they at least it didn't completely and totally butcher it which was what I expected. they ended up actually putting out some really iconic andd catchy new tracks which i appreciate

This is my 4th time listening to this, It's so good!

I have to say - watching a streamers first playthrough of KH series - I think that KH3 merging ALL of the games stories and the narrative of all three trios being resolved by beating Xehanort and Sora being the one to do it. but that's me following the games in order, with ALL information laid out within the span of like 4 months, not 10 years.

u know i typed the name of your channel into the search bar and i had to scroll past 8 videos before i finally one of yours

I realize that voicing an opinion in favor of FF7R isn't very popular. But, I also think that I'm probably in a relatively silent majority of people who quite liked it for what it is. I slept on playing FF7R for about a year. Don't get me wrong, I totally bought the steel book version on release. But, I was still hesitant to play it at first. The primary reason wasn't because of any of the story changes, that I later heard about when "this is the final betrayal" talk started floating around the internet. As an aside: this was the big betrayal? Not 13-1, 15, or the countless low effort remasters? Even within the FF7 canon, Dirge of Cerberus was a systemically bad game. And, my tastes are clearly deviant since I adored the likes of Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter (which, is still maligned even more than Dirge to this day). If anything, the unknowns in the story are what actually made me push past my reservations and put the disk into my Playstation. What I was actually nervous about was the action combat system. I wasn't a huge fan of the combat that they introduced in FFXV; I was similarly concerned that a much larger play area would end up feeling like the empty feeling trecks from that same game. Now that I've played FF7R-several times now, mind you-I can say that my concerns were unfounded. The Remake did a really good job at preserving the strategic elements of the combat system with the hybrid ATB system they developed, the hard mode bosses did way more than just pump the stats for the sake of difficulty, and the world felt comfortably lived in. We even got a taste of some of the combat refinements and future story teases that the dev team would debut in Intermission; namely, fantastic aerial combat, the begginings of team combos, more dynamic boss encounters, and various improvements to the engine and graphics. I'm happy with what I got, even if the marketing was deceptive. I basically expect it as a matter of course, because we live in this capitalist hellscape. For the first time in more than 25 years, I don't know what happens next; and, that delights me in a way that I didn't know I could happen again with these characters. FF7 was the first video game that I bought with my own income. And, it's the first game that I couldn't put down until I rolled credits. The same thing happens with Remake, and I'm going to cautiously optimistic that it'll continue to manage that in the upcoming entries. Yes, the company executives at SquareEnix don't give a rat's ass about anything more than how much money they can squeeze out of their consumer base. But, I don't think that Kitase, Sakaguchi, Nomura, or the rest of the devs responsible for the direction of FF7R are creatively bankrupt as a result. I barely play any games outside of the indie and AA space anymore. Mostly because of the creative stagnation that's plagued the AAA industry in the last 10+ years. Occasionally, something special comes out, and FF7R was one of those for me 🤷

Great stream as you explained your stance well. I don't really get the: "it does not damage the OG" argument so many have. Have you ever played a prequel or sequel? All expanded media affects the perception of the OG. Prime example is the compilation of FF VII Remake and how it changed the perception of Cloud and Zack. Not to mention the "um, actually in the X..." arguments.

Tifa is Cloud's girl and Aerith is Zak's girl. Them being together doesn't hurt anything. THAT'S THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE! Advent Children let you know that. FFVII Even made that known. Anybody who has a problem with that is a 🤡 that shouldn't be listened too.

What do you mean by «objective definition»? Definitions are something we humans make up to communicate meaning.

I think they just didn't want to tank the performance of the game before it even launched. People are clamoring for a remake for years, the higher ups give the OK and it gets announced, but at some point along the way the direction changes slightly. If they really wanted to string old fans along, they would have made part faithful, maybe with the Zolom as a final boss fight or something, but then change it later. Instead, they kept quiet before launch, but still made it clear in game that this isn't a one to one remake. And it's my opinion that they could even still follow the story to the letter, but they're making it seem like it's not so that they can still surprise existing fans.

It was definitely a case of false advertising, there is zero doubt about that. And frankly like I said many times, what makes this far worse besides the lies and absolute disrespect to the fans (and giving in to Sony's greed and not releasing Yuffie DLC on PS4) is that the game they made is in and of itself the proof that their arguments for wanting to fundamentally change the story are horseshit, the best moments in the game are the ones that are almost 1:1 from the original, which shows they don't even understand their own game or audience anymore, absolute shame!, specially they wasted such an amazing combat system on this game, and didn't even push for it to be used in other FF games like FF16, like more wasted potential. This Remake could have been an amazing unprecedented experience, but they had to muddle it with immersion breaking meta horseshit that undermines the story and themes of the original, driven by hubris and their surprising resentment towards the fans, this game existing means we will NEVER get a proper faithful remake of FF7, and that's the worst crime they did.

I’m thinkin that rebirth will be more about choice like if you want you can take the path of the original or you can change the story to your own liking! But I could be very wrong

Final fantasy tactics wotl adds a whole new end cutscene changing a whole character arc.

The problem is the people who are angry are the loudest. I dont think most people hate ff7 remake. Final fantasy is my favorite franchise and i love ff7R. People can go play the original if they want a 1:1

16:01 I actually just felt a little bit lucky they made it at all and didn't completely and totally butcher it, which is what i had expected

I can agree it wasn't fair marketing to advertise it as a remake when it's really more of a sequel. However, the effect the end of the game had on me was to make me way more excited for what was to come since I no longer knew how it might play out. An unknown adventure with characters and a world I already love being handled by many of the same people who made the original is way more exciting to me than a true remake. If I had known it was a sequel, the ending likely wouldn't have had the same effect on me as it did. I'm sure there are others who like the direction of the remake trilogy who would agree. At the same time, the people who didn't like it wouldn't have felt so betrayed if they knew what to expect, so there's a downside either way. I'm not sure how you would even market a game that plays out at least 75% like the original as a sequel without giving away the plot twist at the end. For both those reasons, I'm not convinced advertising it as a remake was purely maliciously motivated.

13:00 i feel like you cant look at 90% of remake and gleam from that some sort of resentment from the developers against the og... All communication they ha e put forth is nothing but praise and intent to give us the first playthrough of FF7 but made better with better combat, graphics etc... but to do so it cant be a 1to1 remake.

To me saying that FFVII is just now making the FFVII series something different or "kingdom heartsing it up" is blissful ignorance. The series has been ongoing all this time with games like crisis core and dirge of Cerberus, as well as the advent children movie.

I’m a fanboy of the original and am happy with all the changes. Now we’re left guessing a little. I like this way more than a 1:1, especially given 90% is the same.

26:21 fully agreed, it has been about cash for them all long - same for Nintendo with zelda

Even if they made an exact remake people would still be bitching and whining. I enjoyed the original ff7 when it came out, and i thought the remake was fine, it's it's own body of work. I don't hsve a horse in this race. But if i know one thing about the finsl fantasy fan base, they will always bitch about something. I literally dont think its possible for them to be completely happy. No remake of a game thats burned into their brain via nostalgia will ever live up to how the original made them feel.

Obviously a remake is going to vary from the original but when the party suddenly fights a giant monster that is the physical manifestation of destiny and then the timeline is changed so that Zack is alive then you've gone so far off the rails that it can't reasonably be called a remake anymore.

Love this. Not sure what other people think about it, but I'm so conflicted about the Remake OST. Some of it is amazingly well-done and it's awesome to hear some of the gorgeous new versions of certain tracks. But I feel like the OG soundtrack did such an amazing job of storytelling & musically communicating themes, the moods or vibes of locations or particular plot moments and was such an enormous component, I feel like this element got a bit lost in the modern approach to updating the score

Love this podcast. You should make another episode about Elden ring

I like the direction its going, a remake in the sense of its retelling the story but "rewriting" it in a wait to give us a surprise even if it is still gonna be the same events regardless. I mean if you played the OG your gonna know exactly what happens. And now we dont know if Aerith is gonna die or not (she will) or if itll be Tifa. In fact the Rebirth trailers show almost exactly what i thought itd be, the next part but slight changed with added and moved around things. feels like RE4make honestly. If RE4 was a 1:1 remake idk if it would have hit as hard. Some enivorments was like "idk this area, oh wait a minute.... yeah i do! WOW" I started with Crisis Core, then beat the OG on PS1, and then tried all of the ones i could, watched the movie, and ive even been studying metaphysics and stuff and honestly a lot of the stuff makes sense. Lifestream is just Aether Quintessence of Alchemy. And makes perfect sense with everything Time related too. The people saying it makes no sense just dont understand a lot of it cuz.... part 2 and part 3 will explain everything for one and 2 they just wanted the PS1 game remade 1:1 and either way youd have people complain. square Enix couldnt win. but this is the best way they could do it. make a sequel while using everything they have to "remake" the game. Youd be surprised how much stuff you can figure out by learning metaphysics. Most media is based on some form of it in one way or another. The DNA liek stuff you see throught FF7remake is also something that holds a lot of evidence that its gonna play out VERY Similiar. they are gonna not change any actual plot points but suggest to us they might. Is aeirth gonna die? yes but square is gonna make us think its Tifa. Is Zack alive or dead? Someone in your last video mentioned " at 0:55 I wonder if this is why so many fools think it's multiple timelines/universes/worlds. "World" is a common term in Japanese to refer to one's life separate from others. To merge them, such as Sephiroth taking over Cloud as he once did in the OG, is to merge two worlds.. It isn't literal, and for the entire compilation there's nothing suggesting the world having parallels. What is there, is a LOT of references to the ability to move through the past memories and future memories of the Planet through the lifestream." Aether and Quintessence can hold not just Time and reality but also memories, its basically the life stream. It has to do with metaphysics and alchemy. But think of it also like the Erd Tree in Elden Ring. "We will become apart of it one day" Sephiroth is talking about becoming one with the UNIVERSE ITSELF. The whole Dirge of Cerberus not being talked about but Advent Children also can show this being a thing, cuz Aether also has to do with not just the lifestream and universe, but OMEGA Weapon. What was he to do? take the lifestream to another planet through the cosmos. Aether is also close to a persons name as well..... Aether? Aerith? again the DNA related stuff is EVERYwhere in the compilation. Its not there for no reason. HIGHLY recommend getting Sleepzi on. Man i dont even want to explain how wrong you are about Nomura and how hes been working on FF since Final Fantasy IV aka "Light and Darkness the Final Fantasy game" but that doesnt feel like Final Fantasy. He was a debugger on that and did so much to move through the ranks. He did more than his job. Thats why hes a director. And with the whole Kingdom Hearts thing? how can you think the game feels Kingdom hearts when literally the concepts in that game are used in the older Final Fantasys. Its apart of Feng Shui, and the whole Aether Quintessence thing i talked about earlier cuz japan has their own form of it. Kingdom Hearts has "all things must return to darkness, and all came from darkness" its the void in FFV, and its also the lifestream in FF7. its the same concept changed and reused between games. Final Fantasy 1 literally is a TIMELOOP.... Kingdom hearts concept of Nobodies, Heartless is literally the concept of a Soul, Spirit and Body, 3 of which is also related to again alchemy and metaphysics. which Aether is also not "real" but could be. And if it is then its more than likely Dark Energy which is related to Dark Matter and also getting into some Einstein related stuff....lmao But dark matter is basically the heartless. a Heart is a soul. so your soul is stolen by darkness aka aether aka dark matter and your body and spirit split apart. your body becomes a "nobody" and your "heart aka soul" becomes a heartless. Your spirit? well it goes to the afterlife as shown in KH3. KH1 is Darkness KH2 is Nobodies Kh3 is The intro to the Afterlife And btw keep in mind the Heart if its the Soul, the Soul holds our personality and memories. So in FF7 if we pass onto the life stream, our memories go into it. Sephiroth Keeps saying "ill never be a memory" and keeps himself, his consciousness intact, inside the life stream instead of becoming one with it. And if the lifestream has the memories of all that passed, and thus the memories of the world itself...... Just imagine what one can do with that kind of power. He could become a GOD. Like he did at the end of FF7 Safer Sephiroth and Bizzaro Sephiroth. What is Bizzaro Sephiroth in Japanese? Rebirth Sephiroth. Theme? Birth of a God. Sephiroths name is also based on Medieval Sephirot that is also on Alchemic scrolls in ancient times. Whats the Sephirot? "Sefirot meaning emanations, are the 10 attributes/emanations in Kabbalah,through which Ein Sof (The Infinite) reveals itself and continuously creates both the physical realm and the chain of higher metaphysical realms. The term is alternatively transliterated into English as sephirot/sephiroth, singular sefirah/sephirah, etc." "Metaphysical" Metaphysics Sephiroth is acting like a God. The ghost train i assume would relate to the same concept just expanded upon to help explain the lifestream in more detail probably in the sequel. The Motorcycle guy? yeah idk bout him lmao thats def filler lol man i dont even want to get started about Karma, KH4 Verum Rex and what Karma is in real life but i will "REBIRTH" aka buddhist tradition of the six realms Whats the sequel to FF7Remake called? Its also inherently Shinto. Which is HEAVILY influenced in MANY games in japan. Tears of the Kingdom. Kingdom Hearts, Persona, and many many more. Naruto and DBZ included, cuz its also in many other stuff too. Metaphysics is wild when you start seeing how a lot of things connect when you dont see it before. Real eye opener. No math required. Ive been doing research for a alchemy Zelda video and man i found myself a rabbit hole lol Metaphysics is wild but its so fascinating cuz the Multiverse is actually based on real Metaphysics too. Sucks Marvel popularized it and gave everyone fatigue with it. Its been a thing in media for years but suddenly its an issue cuz its to "Marvel" as if marvel invented it. but i dont get the Nomura slander at all. cuz what your sensing isnt "nomuras mark" your sensing something COMPLETELY different and getting mad thinking its "nomura" changing things. Get mad its not a remake. I get that, its marketed as a 1:1 remake and its a sequel. Be mad or happy. That doesnt bother me. Everyone can have their opinion with that. Just please do some research. Oh still getting a Like cuz i still like your content and how ya get new people on the podcast. Been LOVING this! cant wait to see who you get on next! And also sorry for sounding like i was getting heated, i was but also just wanted to clarify that, not everyone knows all this. I mean its metaphysics. I didnt know this stuff at ALL a few years back lol

i love remake .. thinking it was a remake.. and then realising its a sequel.. still love it.. .. and you realise early on that its not a remake but a sequel because of how the story unfolds... the first time Sephiroth appears infront of Cloud you know something is not right... so please dont say things like i didnt know till the ending that its not a remake. :) Dont mean to sound rude but I truly dislike it when people make things out to be worse when they are not while sitting in an echo chamber. anyhoo back to watching

The ONLY way I could see this multiverse nonsense working is if it turns out that Marle (the old lady) is actually Marle/Princess Nadia from Chrono Trigger, and she's skipping around to other realities trying to find spawns and/or ancestors of Lavos, since Lavos and Jenova seem to have similar modus operandi. (Incidentally, this is also my headcanon for Lucca appearing in Xenogears; the Frozen Flame and the Zohar seem to have a lot of similarities...) My biggest problem with the remake is that the ideas it seems to be presenting (changing fate) are entirely at odds with the central point of FF7. (Sakaguchi coming to terms with his mother's death, and learning to accept death as a natural part of the cycle of life and move on.) Changing fate, on the other hand is VERY much in line with the themes of Chrono Trigger/Cross. The remake comes off as a repudiation of everything FF7 stood for, but I could totally accept it as a stealth Chrono sequel, that just happens to also be a crossover with FF7. The whole time I was playing, I couldn't help but feel like a character having the same name as a major Chrono character was just too much of a coincidence to pass up, and my hopes that something would come of this was the only thing that kept me pushing through all the Whisper nonsense.

I agree about the filler. Most of sections of the game were dragged out. The intro feels quite tight and well done, and I think the game as a whole needed to be a bit more constrained in that way. You mentioned section after section that felt dull or padded out until I realised that was probably about 50% of the game, if not more. The side quests at the start, the bike part and developing Jessie and Biggs and Wedge, the Corneo mission, the train graveyard, the mini-games with Aerith. So much of it felt artificially extended. And the whole presentation of the final act was not really done effectively. I didn't care when Jessie died despite so much time wasted developing her as a character. More time was given to the plate dropping but it felt quite melodramatic. Then the best part of Midgar in the OG where you awaken in the prison with the doors mysteriously open only to discover blood and corpses everywhere was rushed through all to have Barret's fake death and a bunch of madness about whispers. Don't get me started on the ending either. And while most of the voice acting was solid, I didn't really like Aerith's voice actress. There are some great things about Remake, the music and boss battles, and seeing the plate from underneath was incredible for the first time. (The sight of the plate from below was one rare example of justifying a remake and showing us something important in a new way which we couldn't see in the original, but there wasn't many other examples like that). But I'm not very confident either that Rebirth will improve dramatically upon what they did with Remake.

Sephiroth kills Zack

The best FF is VI

47:52 My man

even og FF7 was a little bit too much convoluted for me so yea my eyes rolled on the floor when I finished Remake. I don't plan to play Rebirth at launch its in the ballpark of FF spinoffs and sequels for me. Too much Nomurism as I call them

What compelled them is project scope - it's cheaper to chop and change the story to have fewer environments and set pieces total. Pad out the ghost train segment, truncate whole sections post Midgar in Rebirth. They already had to chop out Midgar into a single full priced game

Rat you kind of lose credibility saying there where constant re releases of the same games in the lead up to KH3 1.5 was announced before 3 even got announced and was a remaster of 1, Re:Com, and the cutscenes of Days 2.5 was announced after KH3 was announced, but continuing the necessary job of bringing old games to modern hardware. It was a remaster of 2, BBS, and the cutscenes of Re:Coded Then 1.5 + 2.5 was simply a combined port of those 2 releases but on PS4, which was pretty necessary since Kingdom Hearts III was going to be on PS4 and they wanted all the context for the story on one system And then 2.8 was a remaster of DDD, which also had a movie set during the mobile game and prologue mini game for KH3 to give us a taste of the new engine This is functionally 3 remasters to bring the important stories of the first 8 games on to the console that KH3 was releasing for, which where pretty nescecary because a lot of people skipped the games that came out after 2 I don't think any fan of the series who was paying attention during that time period would agree that they where stringing us along and baiting us with Kingdom hearts 3, since no first hand sources said anything about KH3 until it was announced in 2013, when the initiative to remaster all the past games had already begun I can respect your opinion that you don't like anything after KH2. But saying there was remaster after remaster of the same games is blatant misinformation born of ignorance, and you are better than that

This is the same as evangelion rebuild movie series.

Square Enix makes the stupidest, most baffling decisions in all of gaming. The company made some of the greatest games of all time and the current leadership has no idea what to do with it, whatsoever

@40:32 95% of it was sooo faithful... Like Get The Eff outta here. More Like 65%. After the begining bombing run mission the game goes off the rails.

Try 6, it's just as good as 7. Chrono Trigger is better than both IMO.

He said who dies this time?... The Answer is KNOWBODY!!! 🤣 They're trying to make the game a forever cash grab. They're gonna Milk it for all it's worth. I doubt there will only be three versions as well.

58:45 - well... to be fair, Tifa holding all those thoughts to herself is the one quality about her that's really, REALLY bad! and now they are changing it, letting us see how even right after, she is comfortable in her relatinoship with Aerith to bring it up at least. and that makes it less Tifas fault for not dealing with Clouds mental illness before heading against Sephiroth and literal war... because in the OG, she was the only one with that information so it's ALL on her that Cloud wasn't even warned ahead of time. which facilitates a great tragic story but within the world, she was being neglectful and dangerously ambivalent to help her friend. she's being more of an antagonist through her actinos than a protagonist in regards to Cloud. in remake they are changing that - good

My viewpoint is - its not a remake, it's an adaptation. However, they are trying to illicit the experience of the original and to do that, they have to throw us for a loop. For someone who beat ff7, how do you make Sephiroth an enigma? With powerlevels beyond comprehension. You can't with a straight up remake. How do you make Aeriths death hit you... if you know its coming, when on a first playthrough it was snuck upon you. You make it clear that the future is uncertain, not set in stone. Which they are doing. Lotr lost Tom bombadil to the adaptation to the movies. But it adds so much for character when you can see a live human emote and act on screen. That's how I think about their approach to the remake.

I think square not being upfront is ballsy but I actually respect the balls on them for doing so.

I'm a like metaphor and subtext. Not so much when the subtext is "hey, audience, I hate you. By the way, thanks for the money, sucker".

Mortal Kombat 9 is a remake and a sequal. It is the events of mk 1-3 all over again. Some love it some hate it. Now with remake and a true updated ff7. Its still not going to be 100 but they did make a mobile updated version of the full ff7 timeline. From ff7 to advent children. I dont like mobile gaming but thats me. While i do like the remake i totally respect where you both were coming from. I feel similarly in regards to the marvel movies. I love the characters and the stories but i feel like the film adaptations are shitty.

You didnt like being able to play the kingdom hearts games not on a ps2? And now its on steam?

You NEED to play ff7 with the echo mod. It's the coziest vibe of all time and makes the game feel alive imo

@42:05 They didn't "HAVE" to do anything. Midgar has 8 EFFING SECTORS and if you include the bottom and Top plates that is 16 Sectors. They could've made Midgar this open exploratory sandbox and have you travel to different sectors, really flesh out MIdgar. Use that 40 hours to explain so much plot holes of the original game. Instead they chose to pad out the game with nonsense filler sidequests and annoying fetch quests. THAT IS PURE LAZYNESS! Lack of creativity.

What is the point of a remake, if not to make changes? Not trying to defend any of Square Enix's decisions, nor do I even necessarily disagree with your points, just trying to understand that part of your argument. You could argue that an ideal FF7 remake would just improve the visuals and not touch anything else, if Square Enix could be trusted to do that. (At least, that's what it sounds like you're implying.) But I think that's already a fundamental change from the original game; you're making it more accessible to a modern audience at the cost of, maybe, the original atmosphere, or the visual gaps that were originally filled in by the player's imagination. If the goal is to create as "faithful" a remake as possible, I don't really get why that would be a worthwhile project (see Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl) besides serving as a way for the original publisher to sell an old game at a higher price.

Also Bis talking about how he doesnt want to take away the joy from the people that enjoy this game and how Square should of done it in a tasteful way is a bit of a hypocritical thing to say since if you guys watch his video on this topic all he does pretty much is slam Square and the directors for this with sarcasm and childlike critique.... and here he sits backpedaling... ok sorry that was my rant :) back to video :)

Dudes really saw a trailer where Sephiroth shows up everywhere and they show Barret getting stabbed all the way through the stomach by him, and they really thought “yeah this seems on the up and up, probably no big changes here from the original”. They honestly only have themselves to blame for making an uninformed/unresearched purchase

FF7 Rebirth is going to be a strong candidate for GOTY!

Remake is not a description of the contents. It's part of the title. Did Demons Souls, Shadow of the Colossus or any true 1 to 1 remake of an older game have remake in the title? I feel as though they would have simply called the game Final Fantasy VII if it was to be the same as the original.

11:25 Ok, from Aeriths room to the end is NOT 30 minutes, that's quite an exageration. Also pancake man is assuming kind of a lot about the devs motivation. I mean I guess I can't fault you for feeling that way, but that's not how I interpreted it. Also, I thought this since FF7R came out, but if you feel represented by the plot ghosts, that's on you. All they ever really do is be mysterious and try to keep the plot on-track, I don't see why that would indicate them specifically as a metaphor for old fans or why people think they're a portrayed in an especially negative light. They're neutral, they stop Cloud from murdering Reno and then stop Aerith from falling over, they murder Wedge and save Barett. And on the topic on that scene at the end, when they see the future before stepping into the Destinynado, they react to the really tragic parts, not the part where they actually stop Sephiroth at the end. ON THE OTHER HAND, I have grown quite a dislike for the marketing. They really kept it close to the chest that Remake was a sequel and now in interviews they keep saying "it's gonna stay the same for the most part" which I think is a straight up lie. They're far too precious about keeping the BIG SURPRISE close to their chest. I mean I'm glad they aren't spoiling stuff in marketing, but the insistance on the story "not changing much" is increasingly distasteful. 19:42 I think the confusion about Nomuras level of involvment comes from his own comments, the one that comes to mind first is something along the line "he was told he was the director and he had no idea". Ultimately none of were there, so we can't know where each idea came from. Wikipedia says the writers were Toriyama and Nojima. 33:07 Fair. If Rebirth shits the bed it'll be heartbreaking, and I'll have a hard time getting over it, but if it's bad, it's bad. Maybe I'll need Rata to drag me off the copium. 44:22 If there's one thing I can't agree as a label for Remake it's soulless. I get that you don't like the new characters, but that doesn't make them soulless. Except Chadley 'cause he's a robot. But maybe he gets a soul when you finish all the VR battles? No, it's definitely when he sees Cloud in a dress. And Roche is funny and I like him. 54:59 For me, the biggest worry is not how they're gonna top the Remake Sephi fight, it's how they're gonna top the music! This, to me, is the best version of One Winged Angel to date and it lives rent free in my head. And in the end, despite everything I just wrote I know in my heart if I watched and talked about the live-action One Piece series (that everybody seems to love) I'd have the exact same kind of complaints as OG FF7 fans have about the re-trilogy. I get where they're coming from even if I disagree with some of the arguments.

Rata: "I don't trust them to remake the original." Also Rata: "The parts that were great were where the just remade the original."

I think the changes are great and like the fact they didn't tell people about the changes. I don't care who it upsets. It adds to my enjoyment of the game. If you want the same game with just updated graphics that game already exists. Go play that.

43:00 I disagree - I think it's purely narrative that they ended it there. 1. they've said that they didn't know if it was gonna be 2 installments or 3 or 4. 2. the narrative of Clouds crisis and him being an unreliable narrator starts with the flashbacks and thusly has to be resolved in the same game - that being at least showing that his retelling of events AS ZACK is a lie. they can revisit it in the third game because the whole sequence in the lifestream IS recapping all of that anyway. but if they don't resolve it in the second game, then before we get to Sephiroth showing the truth, they are gonna have to have a flashback to the flashback from a game ago..... 3. I'm pretty sure that Sephiroths endgame has shifted from summoning meteor to something entirely different, if Cloud had seven seconds to change events and save Zack and Biggs [and Jesse] then Sephiroth surely had time to change things LIKE - his body being in northern crater - maybe he even healed it from being stationary and he's roaming the world...

Dude keeps saying the final fantasy 7 remake. It’s Final fantasy 7: remake. Completely recontextualizes things. They were definitely being coy with the marketing I just think it’s awesome and hilarious

Hard Drive put it best when they said Kingdom Hearts nonsense is just Final Fantasy nonsense

17:16 Well it's not that people are being completely oblivious to what's being said by the characters, of course. What I believe (and I think many others as well) is that those are supposed to be red herrings, and you as the player will not be able to change fate at all. Making the franchise not deviate as much from the original while still having new things to offer. Not being able to change fate is a relatively common trope after all. Edit: Also, I want to touch on something else. You guys have said that calling it FF7-2 would have worked anyway, but decided to fool the fans for no reason. Listen, I'm not going to justify them tricking their audience, but you have to admit its plot works better because of it. Nobody would be surprised by plot changes, and people would still wonder why is it called FF7-2 if it's just mostly the same. You just can't please everybody when you decide to go in that direction.

There are people who exist who LIKE the story changes??

I feel like this guy fundamentally misunderstood Remake as a piece of art. An actual 1to1 Remake would have been the "money hungry" approach. These are creative people who do not want to make the same art they once did years ago but prettier this time. This could obviously still turn into something that misses the mark but I'm way more excited for this than a simple remake that wouldn't have ever lived up to my memories of playing the original game in my early teens. The fact that he constantly says he doesn't trust the artists on their own art to deliver him something interesting and seems to take ownership of the original game that they made is just so weird to me. I also think he's completely wrong about them basically "hating" on the original by having the characters say "this can't be our future" it's obvious they say that because none of them want Aerith to die. I'm sure the original game is still something special to everyone who worked on the remake and I trust them to at least take us on another interesting journey if nothing else.

You youngsters starting with FF7 or FF10... I grew up with FF4.

Nomura hater detected opinion discarded He was the one that wanted remake to be as close as it is to og ff7

Turning a classic into marvel style multiverse bs to milk money from fan boys. Zero creativity, maximum profits.