All the evidence could work, but what doesn't sit well with me is her motivation. Why does she need to kill her demigod offspring? It is not required in order to shatter the Elden Ring if that was premeditated. Why specifically and foremost Godywn? If it's to remove a future Empyrean who might replace her if her plans to destroy the elden ring failed, why kill Godywn who in fact was not an Empyrean? On the flip side, Ranni's motivation would make sense albeit for personal reasons, to remove her Empyrean flesh, a motive Marika could allign with. In regards to Maliketh , Marika's betrayal could just as well mean she had premeditated doubts about the Greater Will and the 2 fingers, and that even in sealing death away through Maliketh, ultimately she concocted a plot that would use the Tarnished to rid the influence of the Greater Will, which would be betrayal. Perhaps she utilized destined death being sealed away as a means to insure the tarnished who died outside the lands between could return through her guidance of grace. Who knows, would they have still remained loyal to her in the chaos and confusion of the shattering?

It's crazy how I wrote an entire document depicting this type of betrayal from marika 2 years ago and my friend said I was looking too much into it. Now as we get closer to the dlc the current accepted canon is getting closer to my theories.

I been saying marika n miquella where part of the knight of black knife assassin. But niether miquella nor marika wanted godwyn dead tho. Seems that was something ranni planned herself. Also miquella evidently knows ranni somehow since she had the 3 wolves n knew of torrent. Also of torrents former master. Seems miquella is kinda like a black zetsu of Elden ring

7:34 This part NEEDS a content warning before it. Please don't surprise people with descriptions of horrifying child murder.

44:16 i burst out laugh ngl LMAO

And why a lord is need it , why a god needs a lord?

If only we had a remaster pc port we could have modded to something perfect today. Sony could be happy with that new crap of a game and we could be happy with the first and best soulsborne game.

Rato and Crunchy's half-assed justifications for their ridiculous hate-boner for Kitamura reminds me of Peter Griffin saying the Godfather insists upon itself. Dudes could not come up with a legitimate reason or example of what they meant, and when people rightly pointed out the great music she has written, they're just like "it's one of her better ones, but she just sucks". They literally complain about Elden Ring having a homogenous sound but Kitamura is the one that wrote shit like Rennala and Regal Ancestor, stuff that doesn't fit into that archetypical style and stands out beautifully, but of course they downplay facts like that. I don't like throwing accusations out like this, but such a huge amount of hate with no well-reasoned justification to a woman that simply writes music comes across as pretty misogynistic, or at least *extremely* up your own ass for people that have, as far as I know, never written any music professionally before.

Anyone know what the music being played around the 3:40 mark or so?

I might be misremembering things, but I don't think there's mention in the game that anyone else has ever broken a great rune (not sure if Ranni and Miquella's divestment counts) except Marika who shattered the Elden Ring itself. It would track that Marika would be capable of breaking a piece off of the rune of death.

The problem is that this doesn’t really address her actions around shattering the Elden Ring or the games descriptions around it and later events. It’s also possible that we are Marika’s betrayal around destined death as WE set it free guided by grace and can only read the item description of the soul after having done so.

Huh? no community more involved? tbh this is probably the first time I'm hearing ppl are that involved in the story. Whenever I think of story craze the ones that come first to mind are FNAF and related (poppy time, neighbour etc.)

The only people sus of Miquella's rizz are the people writing item descriptions (Golden Order historical revisionist fanboys who also smear other creatures and past regimes) and Gideon Ofnir, professional wrongman. Team Trina all the way, baybee! Smack me on the ass with that haligtree paddle

My original thought way back when I first started the game was that the entire story is Marika's elaborate plan to orchestrate her own suicide. Trapped by her service to the Elden Ring, the Golden Order and having been long disillisoned with the Greater Will, her sending the Tarnished away to become almost "battle-hardened" in order to return to "kill a God" screamed to me that they were being fashioned into a weapon themselves. Hewg, for instance, while he's not willing to share the particulars of his imprisonment within' the Roundtable, is implied by most of his dialogue and his purpose that he's been set there in order to create a "God-slaying" weapon for whatever chosen Tarnished happens to step up to the plate. He has some lines in particular about the "sheer terror of HER", which I assume to be a reference to Marika. This was my impression on my first playthrough and seems to only hammer home with videos like this and the DLC trailer that Marika was a much bigger mover of the chess pieces than we think. Her splitting into Radagon in order to quell the Carian royals could have been with the ultimate end goal of creating Demigod children, cut from a different cloth for specific end goals. The betrayal spoken of here could be the sealing away of death, however a shard was kept to herself, as a backup or indeed always intended to be given away in a plan with Ranni.

Amazing video. Elden Ring's Lore is given TONS of credit because of the medium it is delivered through: The A+ art style, gameplay, graphics, and even voice acting is all so fantastic that it's tempting to assume that there is indeed a coherent and interpretable narrative. After all, how many YT channels exist to "explain the lore" to fans? I believe that it's not entirely crazy to assume that the game's developers just added things "because it made the game cool", and not because it fit with the other elements of the story.... and that's exactly how we ended up with the patchwork lore that we see in Elden. Got a plot hole? Add another proper noun that's loosely associated with a previously established proper noun. Admitting that understanding the lore is futile would hurt many YT Lore Channels... so I really love that @Ratatoskr has the stones to critique it (even if he might not fully agree w my comment here).

why did you remove the video "There Are No Objective Reviews"? I was kinda interested from asmongold's reaction video... I cant find it on your channel...

One of the best things about souls games for me is feeling myself get better at it, and this game gives you that feeling in spades. Nothing more rewarding than going into new game plus and ruining a boss that gave you hell in your first playthrough

Love the Shadow of the Colossus music in the background. If I hadn’t played recently, I would have totally thought it was Elden Ring ost.

Long time lore theory consumer, first-time lore theory contributor, responding to the call for unhinged, shizo, wacky Shadow of the Erdtree theories. I've decided to throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. Here be swaddling cloths, a Marika Gloam Eyed Queen affair, Rune reincarnation and more. And with it all, a new-found appreciation and respect for the great lore channels that have inspired me to put this together. Your time is valuable so I've added a trailer reaction and just a small introspective on what these games mean to me. Enjoy! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AVGs8J-7z2M.html

I think that Ranni and the Black Knives turned on each other because Ranni losing her corporeal form wasn’t in “the script” so to speak. Imo she was intended to die for real that night and slipped the net by becoming a soul without a body. The Black Knives only attack the manor when Ranni goes to kill her two fingers - ergo, when she reveals herself.

That's gotta be the most unhinged thoery in the famdom. People have two arguments to defend this point of view, Marika's personality (which we don't really know, and this applies to any demigod), Peninsula's ghost who says she had an unwanted child (in reference to a the demigod killed during the night of the black knives) and the description of the black knife assassin set. A clear example on how people create theorys based on flawed interpretations. The assassins being close to Marika once, does not mean that she is in charge of them. It makes it more tragic that they would betray their liege by adhering to a sercret societ that wants to get one back at the current order. People just pretend that Marika is this 5d master chess player that knows everything that is to happen and set failsafes along the way in order to keep winning. Truly just when did u see a G.R.R Martin character be that? The shattering of the Elden Ring is always depicted as a impulse born of a moment of desperation at the loss of her son. Just what Marika wins by killing Godfrey? And why would she need to use a secret assassin order to do so, she is the god-queen of this era, with a shadow that is THE death of demigods, why not use him instead, if she wanted someone dead? It makes no sense if u just start asking why...

I always thought Marika shattering the ring, when it was constructed in her current ideal way without death, giving Maliketh his purpose, was the form of her betrayal to his role. Maliketh directly questions the shattering: “why shatter…?” I thought it was the sense that Marika betrayed everybody she promised would be fine under her ideals and her rule, by choosing to forsake said rule. Maliketh knows she did it, while the general public doesn’t, only that it was shattered at all. I mean, Maliketh being given the role of guarding Death itself does make his job among the most important figures in the whole of the story. No wonder he was betrayed even above others. But yeah, between highlighting the connections in this video and fadedraven’s comments, it’s a good possibility worth chewing over. Well done as always!

The skeletons around Leyndell are actually gilded, much like Ensha's bones, which leads me to believe he was the lord of that people around which Leyndell would one day be built, at the time when that area was inhabited by Marika's predecessors.

Crunchy’s take on kitamura is so arrogant and ignorant. Actually pure buffoonery. Stick to lore discussions.

Oh shit... is Marika pulling the strands of runes out of Godwyn's dead eye?

Got 100% achievements in lies of p without learning how to parry. One of my fave souls likes

My biggest counter point is, "why Godwyn?" And I think most people think the same. Her shattering of the Elden Ring is also another open ended question on the matter, why would she destroy what she wish others to conquer? Who is the God she wanted Hewg to forge a weapon to kill? Did she want to die, be killed? She's such a walking contradiction. Being this legendary conspirator who predicts everything that will happen is so in odds with the heap mess in a stake we meet at the end of the game. Did Ranni outwit her? Is she aligned with the Greater Will? If not when did she stop? Why seal destiny death in the first place? I have trouble accepting she is that "smart" that "far seeing", instead of bumbling along and making spur of the moment decisions. Like "go away tarnished, you are useless now, if I ever need you again I'll give your grace back". "oh btw myself, let's marry and have children". "oh time to kill my bastards sons and my precious first born, UwU". "stupid ring let me shatter you, I need a new handsome lord". "let me seal destiny death to scawy, ooops let me steal a little bit back". "I like being God, no death for all! love you Greater Will!" "I hate you greater will, everyone must die a true death now *smiles*" She's so all over the place it annoys the shit out of me.

bad woman marika

What could have been a hype trailer breakdown video was ruined by the super long section shitting on kitamura. It really heavily detracts from the video and I hope you’ll avoid making content like this in the future. Disliked

I know the evidence is compelling However I personally don't like the idea of Marika being this mastermind who did it all. I prefer characters who are flawed and prone to emotions. I find it more compelling that Marika "had enough" and after Godwyns death didn't go as planned. This was the straw that broke the camels back, after all she had done. Then she had a mental breakdown and shattered the Elden Ring consequently.

If it happened to them because they failed and were forsaken then how was godwyn killed? He is presumably a strong demigod Also, maybe malikath is talking about death roots? Marika has been off track since her children died, maybe she tried to revive godwyn against the will of two fingers and ended up spreading destined death across all the lands between. Doesn't explain how ranni got a piece of destined death tho

The only thing that gives me pause with the conclusion of this video is why would rani or rykard need the blasphemous claw if Marika just got it for them?

What if the Unwanted child is Mesmer instead? Maybe the mausoleum is linked to Mesmer?

I have heard it pronounced black knife “tee-sh” and they way you pronounced it threw me off for a second lol 😝

I got the impression on my first playthrough that Marika, Ranni, and Melina all have this tie or shackle to the Outer Will, and they have to go through great lengths to set plans against it like 'divesting themselves of flesh'.

I've been saying this since day one! Not only she was involved she orchestrated the whole thing

I haven’t felt alienated in quite a while Ratatoskr, are you okay?

Hey rata, great video as always and excellent background music choice. @g4meplus did a great video also on a similar color of your video, highly recommended

I've never seen anyone have a hate boner for an OST composer before, that's crazy P.S. - Sakuraba is the GOAT for sure, better than Kitamura, but to say she's bad is a bit wild.

The one way I could justify Marika wanting Godwyn dead is that he represents Gold, has links with the Sun, a perfect system/arrangement for the Elden Ring (which is a goal of the golden order fundamentalists) and he would be the perfect successor of the power in place. He would be the next god / lord that would perpetuate the golden order as imagined by Radagon and the fundamentalists, eternal life, gold, glory and all that shit. The removing of Death is the ultimate flaw in the system of the universe, and Marika understands that, because she is the one who did it. If Marika was indeed aware of the failures of the golden order, of fundamentalism, against Radagon, she would want to kill Godwyn, her most perfect son, in order to avoid the plans of the fundamentalists, to stop the Golden Order. Goldmask ending is a perpetuation of the fundamentalism plan, a sun, perfect golden order, and Goldmask recreates it, with us tarnished taking the place of Godwyn. Then, maybe Marika's plan was to make him a sacrifice to Destined Death, Godwyn original Fate, that would create, I think, the true version of the mended rune of the Prince of Death, that Destined Death would be restored into the Elden Ring, mending her original mistake, her sin commited at the creation of the Golden Order, that we see in the new trailer. Fia's ending is a restoration to the original plan foiled by Ranni. And this is why the fundamentalists, like D, are so opposed to those who live in Death, opposed to Fia, because of course, its the opposite of what they want. This can also justify why Melina is here, to help the tarnished to restore Death in the system, because Eternal Life was a mistake. If she is either the GEK herself, or her daughter, or an offshoot like Millicent is to Malenia (maybe Melina died by fire originally during the Messmer war) she would help bring Destined Death back into the Elden Ring. Before we burn her, she says "this world is in dire need of repair, and Death indiscriminate". Marika would use the power of her old rival, the one she betrayed in the shadow land, to restore Death. Ranni, with no love for Marika nor Radagon, only loyal to her mother, would foil both the golden order's will (killing her flesh and the two fingers) and marika's plan restore death, setting us into a new age away from the gods, only guided by the system of the Cosmos, the sky, and guiding light of the Moon. In conclusion, I think Marika could have tried a first time to mend her mistake by killing Godwyn, restoring Death, and when it failed, she shattered the Elden Ring in desperation, as a last resort, knowing she would betray the Golden Order, Radagon and the Greater Will (and I don't believe the GW totally fled, it just abandonned the two fingers, because they were tasked to each demi god, helping them to restore Order, and they failed, the Shattering war was akin to chaos, so they were left behind. The Greater Will is still with Radagon, as the Elden Beast, supporting his status quo, a semblance of Order.) Marika's ultimate plan would be using the graceless, long dead, banished lineage of Godfrey, linked to the original system, the crucible of the Great Tree. Beings of might, power and potential with an experience of Death, that could come back, take the shattered runes of the bodies of her sacrificed children, in order to create a new Order. Death would come for a God, no matter how, no matter what, because unleashing Destined Death and burning the Erdtree would be the only way to get to her, to fell Radagon, fight the Greater Will incarnation of Order, and become Elden Lord. As a final note, it is possible that Miquella tried to restore Death in the Elden Ring by giving Godwyn a true death, but failed. His motivation is that with Death in the system, he would stop being an eternal child and maybe Malenia, his dear sister, would stop to decay eternally and finally die, not becoming the goddess of Rot, foiling her Fate. His plan with the Haligtree failed too. Did he planned to get taken away by Mogh ? Was the ritual of the Formless Mother a way for him to shed his empyrean flesh, or was it a betrayal ? Did he become a spirit before being taken away, and Mogh's plan was to only use his body to power himself ? Nevertheless, Miquella found a way to go the Shadow lands, to the source of the creation of the Golden Order, of the plucking of Death to finally get the answers and power he needs, to the beginning of everything, to the Crucible Dynasty, the time where Marika (and possibly the Gloam eyed Queen as her rival) competed to become a God.

Lol the golden order needs to stop blinding people. Don’t they know the less you see the more you find through feeling?

I don't believe Marika's endgame was merely *an* elden lord. It was an elden lord Tarnished, who'd kill the Elden Beast and free Lands Between from Greater Will. The details of the pplan weren't clear to her at the time she took the mantle of GW's Vessel, but the end goal was there, from the beginning. As she continued to slay or imprison other Outer Gods, now under the banner of Golden Order, she plotted and put in motion the plan to break her shackles. The Shattering wasn't an act of grief. It was the final push once all the dominoes of her plan were in place, Radahn's stars arresting fates of all except Tarnished, forcing GW to summon them in order to find a way to fix the Elden Ring, despite its (justified) hate for their kind... an action which misfired, burned the Erdtree down, brought the Elden Beast down and replaced Golden Order with a random alternative exactly as Marika intended. The Fingerslaying knife's description says why you can''t use it, but Ranni can.

Basically he wants a remaster instead of a remake🤣

One interesting thing to note with the "unwanted children" line from that ghost by the mausoleum, is that the wording was different in the 1.0 version of the game....he uses the term "Marika's bastards " instead

I mean yes the theory of QM being behind our play through as a tarnished been going on since the beginning. Almost as if she sees the future and plans everything. Now the big question is what does Miquella wants? And I believe QM is terrified of Miquella, her own Son. I believe QM broke the ER and did what she did to protect everyone from Miquella and his terrifying plans

Is it possible that she gave malekith a fragment of destined death and gave most if it's essence to messmer?

It’s Numens, all the way down…

So then why would she sacrifice Godwin for this aim? He possibly fits the mold she's aiming for more than anyone.

i always thought marika was saying her children will be sacrifices, but if they dont make anything of their lives they will be ONLY sacrifices. but still sacrifices either way

I still think there is a miniscule chance miquella was in the plot aswell. then again you dont believe he can manipulate peoples intentions magicly. if he can maybe not marikas but maaybe rannies ..