Film Theory: Spider-Man’s Biggest Threat is… the MCU?! (Spider Man Across the Spider Verse) 

Now that you mentioned kingpin isn't miles goal the same as him in the previous film. Risking the fabric of space time continum for their family

@@Johnnyupside And we come full circle back to when it all started

Also Scarlet Witch’s goal in Multiverse of Madness

@@danteloparco6708 Yeah! I thought the same thing, people crossing over to other universes to find a one where they can have a family.

Yes! Although Kingpin wanted to _take_ that substitute family and bring them into his own universe. Whereas Miguel just took the deceased version of him's place instead. It's a more sneaky, but arguably more ethical(?) way of doing it.

There could be a future captain close to spider Gwen that ends up dying tbf

@@Thesuperduperbooster Then the same could happen if Miles stops his dad becoming captain. While Miguel tried his hardest to stop.

❤

@@pingpong607 if anything that just further proves that Miguel’s theory has holes in it. He hasn’t learned about what happened with Gwen and her dad yet. So if the same could happen to miles, he wouldn’t know and still is in his mentality that these events are destined to happen

In the first spider-verse movies rifts from using the particle accelerator are mentioned, creating holes through which one can travel creating laying the groundwork for the events of the second movie.

Suit in spider's anime universe that got destroyed in first movie

Yeah, but it's not a huge canon thing.... Or wait, maybe it kinda is? Since that Peter met Miles, he turned his life around. That wasn't supposed to happen in the canon, right?

It’s a hard claim because Sony could just say Spiderman is suppose to have kids and part of the cannon. The motivation doesn’t really change things.

Oh, so one time it wasn’t a spider bite one time a bunch of spiders eat peter parker, and the spiders became Peter Parker so it doesn’t always have to be a spider bite. You have to be spider related just a quick note.😂

I just realized that the punk-spider called the baby an anarchist and approved of it. So did he know? He'd also been trying to prevent Miles from seeing Miguel and saying things like "we don't follow orders". I'm curious about his world.

I completely agree

I agree. He needs therapy. And a lot of it. I don't know if that makes him a "Bad Guy" though? I just think he's traumatized and needs help. There's a difference between an antagonist and villain, and Miguel O'Hara seems to fall into the "antagonist" catagory for me. He's not Evil. He's just trying to a good thing in his view, for the wrong reasons, and trauma and what must be a MOUNTAINLOAD of PTSD are obscuring his judgement.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting!

⁠@@PsychicSiren7he’s pretty evil He literally used Thanos Logic like everyone else did during the thanos run of the MCU and tried to justify it to miles cuz He gave up trying to find a reason

@@dereklouther9372 Miguel watched not only his alternate universe daughter, but an entire Dimension collapse around him. And the entire dimension, including the planets, the earth, every life that could have existed there doesn't exist anymore because of what he did. (This is what Miguel believes.) So in his grief, he comes up with that theory because he wants to ease the guilt on his conscience, Because he believes that he's responsible for wiping out an entire dimension of people and sentient lifeforms. He's probably got a lot of ptsd, trauma, survivor's guilt, and who knows what else under his belt. So when Miles comes up and basically throws it in his face that " I'm going to do what you couldn't, I'm going to change Fate and save the person that means the most to me", all Miguel can hear is that this kid isn't listening to his experience and is continually insisting that he can do what Miguel couldn't, and change the fate of how these things are supposed to work. This doesn't fly. Miguel sincerely believes that what miles is going to do will wipe out his universe and all sentient life within it. And while the chase scene might have been a bit of an overreaction, Miguel did it try to talk miles down before throwing the force field at him. I still believe that almost all of the spider people in the spider-verse movies need some sort of therapy, but this just proves my hypothesis that Miguel O'Hara needs therapy the most out of all of them. Not only because of his unique issues in the comics, but also could stem from his feelings of inferiority, because he believes that he's not a true Spider-Man due to him not having the same origin story. But to answer your original question, I don't find Miguel O'Hara evil. He's just someone who's been slotted into the category of antagonist. If anything Miles should fear the Spot more because at their core, Miguel and the Spider Society are still spider people and stand for the values that Spider-Man stands for, while Spot has promised to take everything from Miles, and hasn't hesitated to cause damage. While Spot won't hesitate to cause damage, Miguel is trying to fix things, he's just trying to fix things from a flawed viewpoint and perspective of how things should go.

Multiverse of Madness was a crap movie and you can't change my mind

Godzilla had a stroke trying to read this and died

Hey Mozart, I'm a huge fan

I thought it was good

now this is an avengers level threat

Spider ham wasn’t either

spider-racism

lol yeah when i watched the movie im confuse about that, mainly because of the spider sense

​@@thegrandatm1844at least he got bitten by something

Was it explained in the film, or is this from the comics?

I mean just because she's from 3145 doesnt mean that someone couldnt have started the universal unravelling

@@Cera_01 true but realistically she would be the first the be affected. Change the past, change the future. If that makes sense

​@@MyNameBeeKayychanging the past doesn't change the future, it just creates an alternate timeline extruding from the sacred timelinelike the tva feared of.

@@rf8u that doesn't apply in the spider verse since there can only be one variant of each spider, they consistently interfere in separate dimensions, and just about none of them are NOT parallel in time. They meet outside the confines of their time periods and dimensions. That's an MCU concept and I'm glad it doesn't bleed over. Plus the fact that it's a character verse and not a timeline or universe kinda implies that each spider is already an alternate "branch reality" from the original human being but by a superpower inducing spider. Which is why it's represented by a web and not a stream or tree. They're supposed to meet each other and be part or an interconnected story

so the spot has tht same protection as a add on to his powers and is noone gonna mention tht girl tht the scarlet witch was trying to kil whos powers are MULTIVERSAL TELEPORTATION

@@Lucia-Katuendji Actually, we don't know if Spot has that protection or not. After all, that might have been an incursion after his jump into Spiderman India's world. I would assume America Chavez has some sort of protection built in to her teleport as well, since she's not apparently leaving wakes of destruction behind her. It's possible the mechanism used to do the teleportation is important - some are more destabilizing than others.

⁠​⁠@@MasterTMOwell he won’t have to worry, because since he merged with the collider from Pavitr’s dimension, he became almost like a God. And that’s going to destroy every canon in the multiverse unless he is stopped, if he isn’t, this could be the end of all Spider Man everywhere all together.

@@MasterTMO Feels great knowing that I’m not the only one who subscribes to that theory that Incursions can be prevented in the MCU’s portions of the Multiverse if you have the right protections. Now that I think about it, the theory that I had about Doctor Strange and Scarlet Witch being unable to cause Incursions as a result of their inter dimensional (or, perhaps more accurately, interplanar) travel spells kinda doesn’t really work because Sinister Strange and 838 Strange exist.

This theory has flaws

I think I actually saw his recreation of Leap Of Faith, although I didn't know he made more scenes.

@@supergamerconnor4355 I think at the time of his last episode or before that, he was making the lego scene for Across the Spider-verse.

@@artechstorm that guy was only a teenager 😀

@@scratchgaming111 yeah. Respect to him

The guy is 14, I feel like trash

And literally did it better

@@lodestar3984 Actually speaking the truth rn

@lodestar3984 Because they didn't try to waste an entire show just to set him up as an antagonist. Also didn't try to make him sympathetic. Also had him acknowledge how he was wrong for his actions.

@@sullyschwartz2365 Exactly. He was a much less fractured character than Wanda, since he was new. If not for Wandavision, I think Wanda would have been much more interesting.

I also think its really similar to Kingpins character.

iirc gabriela was supposed to become spiderwoman after his death too

thats not a plot hole, thats the whole point of the movie. miguel is wrong

The "police captain close to spiderman" does not technically has be her dad though

EXACTLY

But also by removing a Spider-person from their universe doesn't that cause problems because now theres no spider-person in the universe. Assuming that one big canon event is that there's a spider-person.

@@movienerd9362not at all Miguel is just fucking lying

@@LetsPlay4Freebut she doesnt have anyone else in her life that is a police captain, so i feel like its heavily implied that it was supposed to be her father

Nice svryva

👍

👍👍

👍👍

Nice

it wasnt the original idea but he was glad it happened. stop lying

Well, no, that's not originally why Stan or Steve Ditko have included the mask. Stan fully admits it was not intentional, but it's a great happy accident in retrospect.

I wonder if one of the background easter egg characters for the next one will be Man-Spider. From a universe of arachnids where a researcher is bitten by a tiny radioactive human.

@@aston4763 More people need to learn from Stan once your product and character is out there in the public it can change and adapt...It's not something to fear or hate but to love that people loved your character and story so much they wanted to improve, add, critique and copy it. It's literally the very example of something becoming beloved and becoming more than the sum of it's parts into a legend.

A shame that the movie is w@ke.

I wouldn't say no one noticed, Miles himself noticed in the movie. When Miguel tries to pin the blame for the incident on Miles breaking a canon event, Miles rightly points out that it was Spot's fault.

@@ramonandrajo6348 Woke? Lmao you people are really triggered by anything. What exactly makes the movie woke?

@@saucevc8353 Demasculinized male characters, female empowerment and/or mistreatment of male characters based on the third wave feminist agenda, false "diversity", and so on.

​@@ramonandrajo6348 we are woke ourselves, shut up.

but it didnt glitch before the canon event was broken

If this theory is to be believed, the canon events start with Spider-man being bitten. If Spider-man never existed in E-42 then maybe they don't get Spider-man related canon events. Also, as for how E-42 Uncle Aaron was able to tell that it wasn't HIS Miles, a theory I've heard is that because Jefferson dies in E-42, Miles is raised by Rio alone. This is why he has more of a Hispanic accent. You can hear the difference in the way the both pronounce "Morales".

​@@LiIDruk Enough of your lies, Shocky x Sparky. Now, get off of RU-vid and take your spam bots with you.

True

@@h0m3st4ryeah

A master of his craft

How to sum up MatPat in one sentence.

TRUE

Not only that. But also Mattpat clearly misremembers what was causing incursions in Multiverse of Madness. What caused incursions wasn’t a person coming into another universe. Instead, it’s someone constantly and excessively dreamwalking into into their counterpart’s head in another universe. The reason being is that the film reveals that people’s dreams are actually events that a counterpart of theirs are experiencing and they are viewing in their subconscious REM sleep. In 838 Strange and 616 Wanda constantly dreamwalking, the boundaries of the universes are significantly eroded by them consciously inhabiting the body of their counterpart in another universe for a long period of time. That’s why 838 Dr. Strange mentions to the Illuminati that he caused an incursion when he’s “dreamwalking.” The fact that dreamwalking is a dangerous thing to do is further emphasized by 616 Dr. Strange inhabiting the corpse of Defender Strange and coming to Wundagore where Wanda calls him a hypocrite. It’s dreamwalking that is causing incursions rather than people stepping into universes.

thats what i was thinking like if incursions are the case then why hasnt their spiderman-filled world not blown up yet

@@rohithdhar7755 Yeah thats what i really dont like about this theory, but I have another thought that im really surprised that nobody has mentioned. In the show What If, we see Dr. Strange try his best to break an absolute point in time, the success of which causes the universe he lived in to vanish. Vanishing makes more sense than an incursion because it's confirmed that's what happened to the world that Miguel went to. The point that I really want to make is the fact that, in both stories, a super hero tries to do something to change the thing that drove them into being a super hero. Miguel would have stopped being spider man and Dr Strange would have never become the Sorcerer Supreme. This doesn't explain the hole created in the universe that Indian spider-man was in, but I think it's really worth noting. Also the containment fields used to hold prisoners, rifts, etc, look very very similar to the bubble that the What If Dr. Strange ends the episode in.

so glad someone pointed that out

wha- oh is it like non-violation measures or smth like that?

@@sanjanaakotyada4753 No, it's just a joke showcasing how Miles world is a step left. Instead of the police being the NYPD (New York Police Department) it's instead the PDNY (Police Department of New York).

If I remember correctly, wasn't it also The Spot who technically started this mess in the first place? He brought the 42 spider into Mile's world which it turn created the chain of dominoes that lead up to all of this. Spiderman didn't really create the Spot, Spot created himself by making a new Spiderman.

Miguel is probably jealous of Miles because he is ok "being an anomaly" while Miguel couldn't all these "canon events" are bull, Miguel didn't disrupt that when he pulled a Rick and the spider 42 was going to be the second spider event for Peter from Miles universe

@LucarioNinja92 Certainly you are right but, Miguel O'Hara started telling Miles that he wasn't supposed to be bitten and become Spider-Man but Dr. Jonathon (The Spot) was the one bringing Earth-42 Spider to Earth-1610 causing Miles Morales being bitten and becoming the anomaly of Spider-Man, and it wasn't Miles' fault cause then he wouldn't be able to get his knowledge all about the canon-events. Technically from another universe, Earth-42 Miles Morales became the prowler but falls for Spider-Man, and he's not suppose to be bitten either from that universe if Dr. Jonathon (The Spot) brought the spider and chose to bit Miles in Earth-1610. From the conclusion: Miles Morales from Earth-1610 deserved to be Spider-Man, Miguel O'Hara started arguing Miles Morales on what Spot did to him, and what Wilson Fisk did with the collider causing some spider-people being brought from another dimensions. Miguel O'Hara started acting hostile against Gwen Stacy for whatever Jessica/Lyla did with the portal, and she did nothing at all if Miles followed her through the portal where Jessica/Lyla opened. Before Peter Parker died in Earth-1610, he started insisting Miles on what he needs to do with the goober, and in the future, Miles Morales saved the day against the collider and Kingpin, and sending every spider-people back to their homes. (In Spider-Man: ITSV, Miles told Peter that he doesn't want become one, but Peter replied to Miles that there wouldn't be any choices but he'll go through his head.) Edited: Spot was the one making Earth-1610 Miles Morales an anomaly. And Miguel O'Hara should've come there and help Miles Morales to get rid of his nemesis.

​@@LucarioNinja92if you are saying it like that why couldn't spots mother be the one who started it all

Well there's a reason he didn't tell miles in the first place, he only told him after he completely lost his cool

basically hes a non-temporal being, detached from the laws of time and space and able to do anything without consequence to the fabric of the multiverse. coincidentally, all of these incursion events could literally have been spots doing this whole time.

He isn't the correct miles that was bitten. It was supposed to be Earth - 42 Miles.

That still should mean Earth 42 and his still should been wiped if it's truly canon events surrounding specific spider people, so I still think the incursions make more sense. And there's a LOT of universes: not so good guy Spider-people, vastly different lore, etc. The whole point of timelines and multiverse is the infinite possibilities, paths, etc. So it would make sense that two universes that weren't supposed to meet getting crossed into causing the problem a good origin. My question is why didn't the other multiverse events cause glitching effects? Does magic protect them where tech doesn't unassisted? Albeit not forever or at least repeated travel still building up to a problem if the person themselves is fine (travel destabilizes, and foreign universe presence makes it worse over time, aka it's not just you glitching it's also the world around you even on micro levels that could spread especially if you're subatomic particles get scattered everywhere).

@@davidsmith3687 Maybe Miles didn't glitch out because the Spider that bit him is from that Earth originally

@@jrbudoybudoy if it was canon events, not having a Spider-Man should've ended world 42 and many things should've ended Miles's world: the original dying, having two Spider-people even if temporary, etc. Just shows that it's not canon events, because you could drag in the game lore with Miles and Peter too whom didn't have a multiverse spider but new experimental ones. Then there's the fact Miles DID glitch in Earth 42 where the spider came from, and the spider glitched in the first movie on his earth.

The only real impact they left was fighting the villains. They didn't cause much damage and their glitches weren't forcefully stopped. Miles is really the only one that did any important stuff there and the collider may have had an impact on the chance of an incursion

@@ThatComputerGuyRyan Good point, but your forgetting in the other movies, the collective were afraid of Dr strange's very existence, giving us the impressions that incursions are pretty delicate. Also, they did fight the big boss guy, which should count as an action

Maybe the more they play with multiverses the less stable they are?

My personal theory is that their arrival was a Canon event, and Miguel isn't looking at the whole picture, because there are Canon events caused by anomolies

@@danielloewen2857 That is also a good theory. However, that just defeats the whole definition of "canon events". It is very rare for a universe to be invaded by three spidermans who are not local, which means that canon events aren't even canon events anymore

I don’t think Hobie was supposed to be totally correct in his reaction to the situation. His game is anarchy. His decision to go against Miguel wasn’t made out of care for human life, but for his own personal entertainment. Don’t get me wrong, that actually makes him a very interesting character, but I don’t think he’s as good of a person as you may think.

@@d00mshr00med you're completely wrong

I just like that Hobie was set up to be this "rival" for Miles in a "love triangle" only for the film to toss it away to show that he DOES care for Miles. And given his background as an anarchist living in an authoritarian version of the UK, it is understandable why he wouldn't give in to the Spider-Society's mindset.

@@devofficialchannel If you think about it, felt like the movie was trying to make Hobie a trope / love triangle as some Spider-Man comics / shows do have that going on with characters involving Gwyn or his other love interests, but our rebel is such a strong believer in going against the system he broke away from that and helped Miles out instead. Dude is awesome.

@@koramil0693 he himself says he is not a hero cause thats not a term he wants to go by.

Yeah, but all those "emergency" spidermen that came to control this dark matter and Miguel himself talked like they seen it way before Spot became a threat. Plus, they had equipment to control this matter, and they knew how to use it.

@@szymon2109 because Spot's dark matter is still dark matter. With the appropriate technology, it can still be reversed, not to mention dark matter being what it is, means it is very much obvious what it is. Unlike how Miguel's world fell apart, it glitched like the time the Collider first fired back in the first Spider-Verse movie. Anyway.. Spot himself is out there somewhere in the multiverse now, plotting to do something with all that dark matter he's amassed, something to do with Miles specifically, and he's pretty much a multiversal threat now.

@@szymon2109Yeah but the canon events are pretty arbitrary if you really think about it and in the comics there are actually characters who are meant to hold the spiderverse together so it’s clearly not Miguel’s job. It’s heavily implied Miguel is a synthetic Spider-Man. So even the first canon event, the one that makes Spider-Man “Spider-Man” doesn’t even happen to all of them. For example, Spider-Man India was given his powers by a shaman. And Spider-Punk wasn’t close with the police, he was the one who k*lled the police force in his universe because it was an authoritarian police state. Miguel is literally just acting based on his own traumatic experience. Edit: Also that tech to control the dark matter could have come from two places. Both of which prove it may not have even existed and they created it on the fly. 1) Every universe with an Alchemax was experimenting with dark matter as supported by the Spot using interdemensional travel to go to Alchemax and increase his power (which is multiversal travel using dark matter) so they took it from Alchemax. Or 2) They synthesized it using tech they already had which is supported by Spider-Punk creating his own multiversal travel watch from parts he took in Nueva York’s Spider-Man HQ.

this is exactly what I was thinking, especially since the simulation of the "canon event" Miguel experienced has a different look to how it appears when we presumably see it happen with Pavitr's universe

THATS WHAT I WAS GONNA SAYYYYY. like what if since miles did it it was different and all that matter was was spot opening another portal on accident to let more villains through.

Miguel, Jess, and Ben Reilly (all in this movie) were also never bitten. I don't remember if Peni was bitten or not. Spider-Ham was a spider who was bitten by a radioactive pig.

@@JackHaIrowjust stop living.

im also 90% sure that miguel got his powers from alchemax and not a spider, so unless there was another spider before him, his universe should be gone.

@@TiniTillerCorrect. He’s literally part spider, hence the claws, fangs, enhanced eye senses and no spider sense

@@TiniTiller There usually is a 1960-2020 or whatever current year spider man that's a part of history in spiderman 2099 universes from what I've heard

That's a doubt I also had with this theory but tbh I'm sure the writers would've thought about this if it was actually the case. So I don't think this theory is true, but it makes a mot of sense (beside the spider society in 1 dimension)

My guess is they built it in an incurred universe kinda like evil doctor strange in MoM they can’t cause an incursion because the universe is alread incurred

@@timmcguire653 that would be a good explanation if there weren’t civilians living in nueva york (miguel’s new york). since incursion wipe out the people native to their earth, these people can’t be civilians of an earth that experienced an incursion since they would all be dead

@@timmcguire653 Maybe it's the one that Miguel lost his family in

@@timmcguire653 Maybe it's the one that Miguel lost his family in

Miguel has to believe his theory is correct, he found closure with the fact that he caused the death of his family. If Miles proves his conclusion wrong, his entire operation loses its meaning.

This. This exactly.

​@@Mediados Exactly. Which is something they'll have to help Miguel get past.

One could argue that Mayday would have probably been born anyway; it's possible Peter B might have gotten his life back together later had he not met Miles but that's probably not the exact case.

@@shadowwriter4538 Yeah, but by the same token, Original 1610 Spider-Man could've wound up dead with or without Miles there in the first movie. One can't say for sure he screwed up fate in one place, but was totally unnecessary in the other. The causal chain cuts both ways, you know?

Oh definitely. The dude is gonna be the downfall of the multiverse.

That’s why he needs to be dealt with ASAP

@@anonimoose165Unless he is stopped. The issue is that he is so unpredictable at this point no one knows how. I just wonder if he is solved in the end of Beyond or just the solution gets found at the end of beyond

​@@ThatComputerGuyRyanmy theory is that he will be defeated in the beginning/first half of beyond, and then the rest will have Miguel as the main antagonist

i believe his powers have a preotection against tht just like other power and wat about tht girl from doctor strange with multiversal powers to wat if their powers grant them not to be detected cause the anomol is due to confusion of the universe in the first place

That's what I thought. in the first movie they call traveling. through the Spiderverse an "aunotomous multiverse jump." I think that means that they act seperate from their universe, with the device.

agree with ya, but i thought bout it for a bit... most of the those spider ppl are inhabiting miguel's universe for not more than a day i guess, we havent any spider dorms or any of the other spider ppl being there for too long, propably each spider is going by, taking a task, grabbing a few more spidies and head out to the mission and report back to the HQ. maybe the incursions require for people from other universes to stay there for the long run, like migeul had with his family (it could have been years man who knows)

Yeah I think it's the devices. Every time we see an incursion there was someone without a device. Miles didn't have one when he saved the Indian police captain. I think that that might be the trick, and Miguel is going to be so mad when he discovers that he had the tech to avoid the problem the whole time.

@@mr.cookiecutter the problem is that when Miguel went to the universe where he had a family he had the device since he wasn't glitching out while he was there. Meaning that the devices can't prevent it.

@simeonbachev5323 yeah thats what I was thinking, perhaps the devices just delay it, I really don't know

Amen to that. In a nigh infinite multiverse, there are nigh infinite possibilities.

​@@ramonandrajo6348ah yes i "wake" movie, if you wanna say woke you should not use the instagram symbol.

@@ramonandrajo6348It IS woke, Hobie’s few lines are woke af, if you’re a bootlicking cuck it might offend you

To bad Miles will lose his mother in this look at her hairstyle

@@jbutarbutar1817 RU-vid, dude, RU-vid. ;)

For an incursion to happen in Mumbattan, Miles would have needed to do something that “left a large footprint behind” on the universe, which isn’t exactly defined. If Miles saving a life leaves a footprint behind, that hole in Mumbattan is the start of an incursion. If it isn’t leaving a footprint behind, then it’s the Spot’s “holes”.

The “watches” (or whatever you want to call them) have a list of things that are pre-labeled as “canon events”. That’s why they say “Canon Event Disrupted”.

This! I was focused the entire time!

i literally told my dad we had to stay in case there was an end credits scene, i stared at the credits for like 3 minutes without anything happening, but i was still so invested

They have mf-ing climaxes within the first half hour-Gwen leading up to the title drop? That was an ENTIRE story arc BEFORE a fucking Title drop. Do you know how immaculate you have to be with pacing and editing? The soundtrack is immaculate as well, incredibly immersive and fitting every moment; Part of why that Gwen arc's climax is pulled off so well is thanks to the amazing music as Vulture shoots up out of the museum

Matpattis my inspiration. My parents said if I get 10k followers They'd buy me a mic for recording..begging u guys, literally begging.

@@LiIDrukworthless human garbage

So she's responsible for the hole thing.

Now you have to wait like 3 to 5 years

@@shruqabdullah5036 Have you not heard it is delayed and we have no idea when it comes out it is at minimum that not coming out until early 2025 because we know Sony movies coming out in 2024 so it is definitely not coming out in 2024. I know it sucks

@@shruqabdullah5036 yeah it was confirmed in a tweet that Sony made about the time line of when the movies come out.

It's only supposed to be a year it's fine 😊 my family was bummed but personally I'm very satisfied. Instead of being sad that I can't see the next part now, I'm so happy with the two hours we got this year and I'm super excited for the next movie! Hopefully we will be able to see it soonish!

​@ryanRosenblatt I didn't realise it was delayed that long. Imma go cry now

@@SkyDerechothe comment was talking about what if, not endgame. In what if the universe does end when dr strange breaks a fixed point which is basically the same as a cannon event. The problem though is a fixed point is universe specific as not every dr strange had to have his wife die. This means that Miguel’s logic is still flawed as fixed points are universe specific so he can’t apply his canon theory to every universe.

@@SkyDerecho I totally agree, infact I remember hearing that MOM was originally about the villain nightmare instead of wanda but I suppose they really wanted to do the multiverse stuff which is pretty disappointing because I think nightmare would've been a really interesting antagonist. Not to mention that I don't even think marvel knows what a multiverse is since they use it almost interchangeably with alternate timeline as if they are separate universes.

​@@SkyDerecho It has nothing to do with Dr. Strange being the best of the Avengers. It's because he saw only one possible outcome of beating Thanos. So giving him the Time Stone was part of that.

@@BigPunDude But canon events ARE universe specific, just like fixed points. That's why it doesn't literally have to be "Uncle Ben" dying, it just has to be an "Uncle Ben figure." Each canon event is more about the IMPACT they have on the character and not the exact event itself. So in the case of Strange, both the death of Christine (What If version) and the injury to his hands (MCU version) lead to the same result: Strange turns to magic and becomes the sorcerer supreme.

I was also thinking this too when I was in my bed thinking about it.. I kinda wanna write a quick RU-vid video or something else.. I still believe what’s staid in this video could be right.. this could also be something to think about.

All i need from Spiderverse 3 is some kind of Tengen Toppa Sp//der Leopardon, i don't even care if it's dumb or unnecessary.

AYYYYY YAYYYYY

But rlly does it matter at all he is a power anger rip off it’s boring soo I ask again who cares?

I need Japanese spiderman to fly in out of nowhere in his spaceship and blast some minions soooo bad

@@uwuface1828 A lot of people care, and it matters because it will be fucking hilarious. He is a Power Rangers rip off, but it's funny.

That’s a really good one, I would have never thought of that

🤔🤔

the way he described the universe it sounds like he didnt have a family in his original universe or already lost them

the universe where the spider socity is in, it's his universe

he didnt have a family in the original one, they died.

I mean it’s not that deep it literally happens in any time travel or multiverse movie or a lot of movies in general of “your fate is in your own hands”. Heck even god of war ragnarok states the obvious. Anything could happen canon events don’t mean anything

Tbf that could literally just be explained away as him not being the captain that eventually dies

​@@117MasterSpartanin Marvel What-If, doctor strange tries to change a canon event but it just keeps happening over and over.

@@Zombatt that doesn’t affect anything of the MCU or spiderverse because it’s a what if

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-SAmmlQZJf98.html Finally it’s here🤠

@@LiIDruk​​⁠ You put it 2 times to really show that you agree ? 😅

​@@IdentifiantE.Sso what

@@IdentifiantE.S its a bot

I think they’re gonna be forced into being allies, and then hopefully they’ll have character development because of each other’s point of view and influence

I think the spot not being subject to glitching might be a huge power

@@hastalasopasequemo3645at first I thought he wasn’t gonna be a big problem & many more villains are gonna come but I was wrong I guess he’s the main villain 😅

​​@@wins._7 Bro is gonna grow so powerful he would be eating Marvels Gods for breakfast. Not even the infinity gauntlet can change Spots reality because now he would be every and nowhere at the same time, a walking Schrodinger. (This is sarcastic btw, I know how powerful Galactus is)

bro has the death touch

I think the whole canon event thing is bullshit and Miguel might just be a control freak maybe

My farts are better than Matpat’s farts 💨 💨

@@megaegg2285 I believe that the canon events are real, just not how he thinks, I think there are set things that must happen, but I don’t believe that they all have to have a dead uncle, no parents, dead love interest ect

So why didn’t it work for Miguel a second time?

@@sr_aron Every other case allows for adaption. A replacement will allow for the events to follow them and their lives instead, but if you are a replacement for yourself, it cannot adapt. It’s essentially just trying to follow the same path twice, after it’s already confirmed to be a failed path. Since he did so, it led to its inevitable collapse. Most events have to happen but it’s never explicitly stated any order, but at the same time if most events already are set, then changing that without an immediate fix to the problem that is still not the identical thing, then it results in that collapse as well. This is probably why it collapsed in on itself as soon as miles saved that dude, but also why it collapsed when my man tried to replace himself after death

Yeah i buy that. We havnt been given a scale for just how powerful spot is now. It could be that spot is the one destroying spiderverses by visiting them, or he's doing it intentionally. For all we know, after the collider scene Spot could be time travelling, killing off spidermen from different universes, doing all kinds of things that would cause incursions. We'll probably find out he was behind the death of Miguel's family and the destruction of his next reality in revenge for something Miguel will do in the next movie.

Yeah also the way the destruction of Miguel's universe was portrayed is a lot different from what happened in pavitr's universe

One thing Matpat mentioned was the size of the “footprint” crossing over leaves. Until the events of the movie the spider society were hidden away at the top of that massive skyscraper, not really leaving a footprint on the area. If the theory is correct we could see that change in Beyond the spiderverse since so many people witnessed and were affected by the chase scene 🤔

​​​@@johnathanowens2560also we see that Miguel has an algorithm that calculates how much the canon event is disrupted (shown at the beginning before they stop the helicopter) which is equivalent to how much footprint they are leaving in that universe.

Alright to debunk this; Miguel is right. Miles was not destined to become spider-man as proven by the end of the movie where he is sent to the spider's universe and not his. He glitches out because he doesn't have a stabilizer like he does in his home universe. The first being Kingpin's collider and the second being the Spot. These are what keeps that universe stable because the canon can't be repaired. In the universes where it can I believe they make events happen to provide some level of emotionally impact to still occur that strengthens said Spider-Man and if that fails then the universe dies

The spider that bit miles also was glitching out in the first movie So this was a set up from start

Omg, like an Immune System

Except no such thing happened in no way home or multiverse of madness, the logic is completely inconsistent

@@DarthVader-wk9sd exactly. and in miguels world theres literal hundreds of spiders and no incursion. I don't think he put much thought into this theory

@@DarthVader-wk9sda case could be made for the difference in how they got to other multiverses, the collider incident is definitely a far less sophisticated way to travel to other universes causing some form of dimensional feedback not present it’s magic

Such a great point. TBH Laurel was always kind of a youthful infatuation, and she's pretty fickle throughout the show. She's kind of impulsive and immature. Like I can cut her some slack cuz she goes through some crazy stuff, but it makes me feel less bad about Oliver not ending up with her. What I HATED was how Felicity and Oliver legit ride off into the sunset and are happy, and then they just chuck it out the window. Felicity is super immature throughout that whole arc, and they could have brought Arrow out of retirement in a better way. A much more natural/organic transition that gives the storyline the space to contend with the tension of playing it safe vs going to help people (plus other similar themes) would have been way better. OR....just end the show on a happy note! Shows CAN END. SHOCKER! And they can continue to have Arrow guest start in other shows and just hang a lantern on it and Oliver can say "just this once" or something. Anywho, end of rant.

*Doctor Strange 2 looking awkwardly from the corner*

@@samcochran8203 Doctor Strange 2 wasn’t good tho

That's what was implied by his comment

@@mr.bulldops_9352 yeah, I thought before viewing it that it had the greatest chance to stand out from the typical modern marvel drivel Disney had been pushing out, but I was sadly mistaken, and the film was just left me with a feeling of meh. I loved the raimi cams and the jumpscares, but that was the biggest part, the better parts after that were most of the ones that included strange, because a lot of his scenes were bogged down either by America or Wanda

I actually thought it was the Spot trying to destroy that city until it was said that it was something to do with the "canon events" stuff

Somebody also mentioned that Miguel's universe disappearing matches the visuals of when kingpin's machine blew up

​@@badsaturnz23 Oh yeah, now that you mentioned it. It could be possible that Miguel wolrd was destroyed by Miles's Kingpin. In that universe, Miguel's Kingpin family was still alive, then Miles' Kingpin use the collider to pull that family away, resulting in an unstable universe. Miguel infiltrate that wolrd make it worse, thus the unstable wolrd collapse.

yeah its just the spot

I swear in the movie they mention that they’ve dealt with this before and so it’s surely similar to ‘breaking the canon’ and not due to the spot using his power

I think you mean by a gizmo, and gizmo is a navigation watch where you could go to any universes, and can prevent you from glitching.

I'm not sure what the spider society is, because it might be a different plane of existence instead

spider society is Miguel's home world, I think, it's future new york(2099).

​@@CreepDestroyer it was Miguel's universe

@@mamamo96 no? No it wasn’t.

Not all events are the same.

⁠@@blackmanwithcomputer Ok but there really aren’t many variations to “Getting bit by a spider” Miguel had his DNA experimented on. Ben Riley is a clone and was basically *born* as Spider-Man These aren’t variations of the spider bite event. They are completely different. And if the variation in a canon event can be THAT wide, then the whole concept of canon events wouldn’t exist.

I find it funny that Matpat used all the cannon events that could be opposed by 'Timing doesn't matter' while leaving out the event that was called out by name as necessary, will obviously never happen to certain 'cannon' spider-men, and is arguably the most noticeable discrepancy in the film.

@@thefnafdetective Japanese Spider-Man was given a power ranger morpher. Pavitr was blessed by a Spider god. There's not a lot, but there's others. The canon events are just variations of events that are similar amongst all of them, but he didn't every event is the same for all of them. It's a meta thing, because most of all the different variants are based off the OG Peter's storylines. Miguel would obviously have no idea why these things happen to them, but he knows it does because he's been studying the multiverse for over a year obsessively trying to find out why that universe was destroyed. Countless hours of observation and interactions have had him come to the conclusion that certain events are too important to be stopped. Maybe that version of his daughter was supposed to become a Spider-Person, but her father needed to die? Hopefully we'll find out in Beyond, because I find it interesting that two major antagonists, Miguel and Jess, clearly didn't have their origins and backgrounds clearly explained. Whereas everyone else has been explained.

@@blackmanwithcomputer Those are not variations of being bit by a spider. They’re so ridiculously different that it’s stupid to say that they’re the same as being bit by a spider. If being BIT by a SPIDER is a canon event, then all of these examples break canon. None of these spiders were bit.

That makes a lot of sense Good job

Wasn’t Miguel supposed to die? He’s the one who changed his universe

The original debunks incursions

Then miguels and pavitr's dimensions shouldnt have collapsed

exactly my point!

Especially when he realizes that he's been telling thousands of spidys to let their loved ones die because its "cannon", like with Gwen

I'm down for this

Imagine if he discovers someone put a virus in his AI friend that gave him false information

Yeah exactky, or somehow the watch thing prevents it somehow.

Yes, I came here to say this.

Seeing how the watch prevents them from glitching across different dimensions and that it warns them about those "canon events" , it probably plays a part in preventing incursions.

The watches prevent glitches. I'm not sure how they work exactly but due to how they match the character they're owned by or made by, (Shown when Hobie makes one for Gwen so Miguel can't track her) I think it allows you to travel dimensions, prevents you from glitching, but more importantly, stablizes the spider man and simulates them being in their own universe. That or the 2099 World of the Spider Society works off of the same technology the watches do just larger scale

@@eisuke4966 @mohamedabdelhalim21 But then what about in the first movie when all those Spider people were in Miles' universe without watches?

With matpat 2 cent. This now includes themselves 😂

​@@drlovec6925They are not changing the universes. They are just stopping the mistakes. The incursion in the second secret wars was caused by Amadeus Cho or whatever his name was of Earth 1610 maintain the portal from the Spider-Men comicbook open, which cause the multiverse to converge.

Ironically, while Miguel calls Mile an anomaly. He himself is one. and he's a very dangerous one as his meir presence destroyed a reality. I honestly think he going to have to die to fix all the damage the society has done because if it wasn't for him. The damage wouldn't have been this bad.

@@kratkartan1486 Miles became an anomaly and Miguel himself isnt an anomaly he just made one by destroying that world

@@asd-dv7dq You literally just said the reason why Miguel himself is an anomaly. His presence alone caused an entire universe to die. If you're going to call Miles one for those things happening, then you have to say the same for him. Miguel is a massive hypocrite.

This can be easily discredited though. Remember the post-credit scene of the first movie? Miguel makes the first dimension travel watch AFTER the events of the first movie, which he's literally watching on screen. Therefore, Miguel CANNOT be the original anamoly since the spider that bit Miles crossed universes first.

I feel like Miguel probably sees himself in Miles and doesn't want him to make the same mistakes he's made

Wait didn’t he say that he was the first anomalies? Miles asked “how do you know what an anomaly looks like?” And Miguel said “… because I was the first” or smth

YOOO TRUE TBH

I thought something similar to this after miles line "claws? Are you even spider man?" It just stuck out to me

good point there

Poor MCU Peter, he lose Tony, May, Ben, Zendaya, reputation and probably soon his best friend.

And He was dusted 5 years, maybe ITS Like a Stop Button for the Countdown to breakdown

Toby McGuires best role ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-d8U6sXScREc.html

​@@EndyMiTsonhe didn't lose zendaya yet, but emotionally he did

I was under the impression he got sent there because the machine read the spiders' home universe rather than the persons, and Miles was just the first where it wasn't the same for both

The machine reads the spiders dna not the person. This is said earlier on in the movie

Yeah you’d think he would be able to survive in both dimensions without problems, I guess they needed to make an obvious show that he was in the wrong universe and put a deadline on him being there without assistance in Beyond

@@M_k-zi3tn them how does it know where to send villains?

When you're talking about the laws of the multiverse itself, I think it goes a bit further than just DNA. Even if Miles' DNA is from Earth 42, he didn't originally come from there. Perhaps there's some sort of invisible bond between a person and a universe that isn't related to biology

in other words, the incel brigade is somewhere throwing this movie into the whole "wokeness" pot lol (I'm assuming plenty of them are already bitching about the mother in THE FLASH being of what seems hispanic descent)

@@kevinw712 They literally accept Miguel as a Spiderman. The logic against them is fucking trash in every perspective.

One of the better conclusions I've seen yet here

or its just spots erasure power at work

If people from different dimensions can cause incursion (without the band) then miles universe should be destroyed in the first movie due to the presence of multiple people from different universe in his universe without the safety band.

​@Thejus Incursions aren't always 100%, they've been explained as an event that could likely happen, not as a guaranteed thing

Interesting take. I saw it the other way around: the bands are *causing* the universes to collapse. In "Into", everyone in the wrong dimension kept glitching, and Doc Ock mentioned that the longer they stayed, the more they'd glitch until they disintegrated. So it seems to me that Miguel's bands, by preventing the *people* from glitching, create a sort of fallback effect where the *universe* glitches/disintegrates instead, and the longer they're there, the more it falls apart. It doesn't explain Nueva York being stable, though... But then, your idea doesn't explain why Earth-1610 wasn't collapsing in "Into", so I think both options have questions that need answering.

While I think the same thing for the most part I can’t help but go back to Miguel saying that they can’t always fix it, feeling like an implication that it has happened before, more than once outside of just his story (but again it could be a lie?)

​@@gobocarterI doubt he would lie about that, especially considering there were other spiders present who likely could know otherwise and become suspicious of him, so I think he told the truth there

I think he might be wrong on the incursions as wouldn’t the spider from earth 42 crossing over create one since it caused Peter to die and miles to become spider-man. At least that’s my thinking

I'm not entirely sure on how incursions work, but wouldn't they have a butterfly effect like with the Earth 42 spider? If Miles had his entire destiny changed to be Spiderman, then that would spiral into everyone who Spiderman meets into having THEIR destinies changed, and before you know it, Earth 1610 has a giant tidal wave of incursions all originating from a single spider. If this thought process is true, then that probably means that all the other Spidies that Miles met / changed indirectly through the supercollider not being shut off in time, will have their universes in danger. Noir has a world where the knowledge of our colors exist for example, that seems pretty major with all the research that might be done on it.

@@shibainu2528 fair point. MatPat can brush over this stuff from time to time

What if like all the Spider-Men jumping into his universe causes his universe to merge with Gwen and Peter's as an excuse for Miles to spend more time with them.

Sense all the spider people are in Miguel's universe wouldn't that make an incursion?