Film Theory: Spider Man Saved NO ONE (3 Spider Man No Way Home Theories) 

I don't necessarily think it would be unethical to force a cure onto Green Goblin. The Green Goblin is not Peter's patient. Norman is. And Norman definitely wants to be cured.

This movie was literally something out of my greatest dreams, and yet it was still even better than I could've imagined. Willem Dafoe was astounding in this movie

Can’t wait for the horror movie spin off: “ Spiderman: *I’m in your home* “

Didn't Spiderman appear at a function that Aunt Mae's charity was putting on during the second film? My memory is a little fuzzy but I'm pretty sure that happened near the beginning. That would explain how Happy and Mae met "through Spiderman". Neither of them would remember knowing Peter, but both of them would remember having a professional relationship with Spiderman and meeting each other at that fundraiser.

If they were just seconds from dying, it was pretty much near impossible for them to convince their spiderman that they've changed without sounding like a desperation ploy.

When did the memory erasure happen?

Funnily enough, Spider-Man could have avoided this by just telling Dr. Strange to make the world forget the NEWS REPORT AND VIDEO, as opposed to making them forget SPIDER-MAN HIMSELF.

One thing that was left out was the look on MJ's face AFTER Peter leaves the coffee shop when he stops himself from bringing up any memories he had written down. You see her get that look on her face as though she DOES recognize him but not sure WHERE FROM. We all know that type of expression: the "I KNOW them from SOMEWHERE, I just can't remember where." Or that "I've seen their face BEFORE, but WHERE?!?" look. So there IS something that the new spell DIDN'T entirely remove. Ned never physically SAW Peter so his memory hasn't been jogged yet. But MJ's HAS to some small degree.

The saddest news is the fact that everything Sony related won't be connected to the MCU as you've said. They just teased us to mess with our feelings.

To be fair, Peter isn't the reason they got into MIT. He's the reason they may have gotten BACK into MIT after they were rejected because they knew him. He never existed, leaving it to reason that they got in the first place.

The real question is, what about the other spidermen? Are they forgotten too? Peter's wish was for everyone who knows Peter Parker to forget about him. But he's not the only Peter...?

Yeah, this was my one main complaint here. Except! Doc Oc. armed with the information that he did die and how, Along with presumably the core from the printer stands a chance of shutting it down safely. Goblen being sane means he won't fly his glider into himself. Also means his son survives in theory. Electro without the power to pull all that electricity and overload himself may survive. Lizard is a wash as he survives and is cured anyway. And Sandman lives but is just not mutated. Oh and some of the missing characters may have been there but just lost or hiding as Venom was.

If you go by how the spell works in the comics, then everything makes sense. In the comics, the spell isn't a one time erase, but rather a permanent block. In the comics, when somebody is reminded of something that was wiped, the spell blocks them from re-learning it. So based on the comics, Mysterio's footage would still exist but if anybody watched it again, the spell would block their brain from actually retaining the information so after re-watching any footage that connects peter to spider-man, they would just immediately forget it again. That's why MJ still has her necklace and peter can get an apartment, because nothing physical has changed, people are just now brainwashed into being incapable of being able to remember blocked memories.

You missed one thing: MJ and Ned were rejected from MIT because of their association with Spider-Man. With that association erased, they would have been accepted.

I always assumed the memory spell worked by merging existing alternate reality in an adaptive way that would fit the requirement. That would allow the writers to make easy retcon for upcoming stories and would also explain why it ends up messing up the multiverse.

If I remember my comics right, they could be continuing the Civil War plotline connections where everyone's memories are still "there" just blocked. In a couple instances (the one that stands out in my head right now is the Human Torch) people spent enough time around Spidey after the spell that they began to realize that they used to know his true identity, but can't remember it now. Once he revealed his true identity, all the memories came back. Physical evidence was marred (a statue of him somewhere had the face become weathered to the point of being unrecognizable), so it could be that the full Mysterio video exists, but when he says "Peter Parker" the audio is muffled, or it glitches, or gets hit with insane compression artifacts so that the name is no longer recognizable. It wouldn't be the exact same as the comics, because (again, if I recall correctly) Peter Parker still had his personal connections, as did Spider-Man, it was just the link between them that was obscured, but it's close enough that I think it may be at least the vibe the screenwriters were going for.

Well to be fair, the MIT part could be explained by saying they would’ve gotten into MIT to begin with. The main reason they didn’t was because of the reputation of Peter, not necessarily that they had bad grades. So that one isn’t necessarily Peter’s doing. I agree with everything else though

Actually, I think the Vulture not knowing Peter's identity probably works out better for us. Originally Vulture wasn't willing to give out Peter's identity. Not only because Peter saved both his and Liz's lives, but also because Liz was affiliated with Peter, which could potentially lead to villains trying to hurt Peter through Liz. But now, all Vulture knows is that Spider-Man put him in prison, and ruined the life of his family. If anything, Vulture has *even more* incentive to take out Spider-Man than he ever did before. No knowledge of Spider-Man's identity = no threat to Liz. No threat to Liz = no reason not to form the Sinister Six and take Spidey out.

Also, while casting the spell the first time, Peter told Dr Strange, that Aunt May, MJ (girlfriend) and Ned ( best friend) should still know, so basically, they were taken out of the equation

What if the villains were sent back to their universes but at a later time? Like the time the spent in the MCU occurred in their own universes before they returned? It could solve a lot of their deaths as well. Norman would have come back after his glider almost killed Spider-Man, Doc Ock would have returned after his machine was destroyed, etc. It would prevent them from going back to just still die.

Just pointing this out here but it was always my personal headcanon that when Doc Ock said "I will not die a monster" he decided to sacrifice himself to plunge the Fusion Reactor into the river with him along with it since he knew he would lose himself to the tentacles again so if he's cured he'll just plunge it in there WITH the help of Spider Man and escape to live another day.

Actually, the Dock Oc point fixes one of my biggest problems with the movie Doctor Octopus is from, that being why he had to drown himself with the machine. The answer is, because he knows his ability to control his arms is temporary and if he doesn't drown himself he will revert to a villan eventually. Now he doesn't have to drown himself with his machine.

Doc Oct was still a bad guy when he had him by his throat. the lizard wasn't cured yet, and Osbourne wanted to be cured, it was the Green Goblin that didn't want to be cured. It's all about when in their timeline they were pulled into Holland's universe. Clearly, they were pulled from different points in time from their universe.

Honestly, now that they’ve loosely confirmed that there’s going to be another Tom Holland Spider-Man Trilogy, part of me expects that they’re going to pull some sort of Xion and have the memories be recollected from data and other memories.

the whole "only villains" thing can be easily explained. Peter and Strange weren't looking for everyone who crossed universes, they were looking for everyone who crossed universes that would cause trouble. Take Eddie and Venom for instance, They crossed universes, got drunk, and then were sent back when everyone else was. It's very likely that it wasn't just villians who crossed universes, we just didn't get to see most of the ones that weren't relevant to the plot.

With the whole “saving the villains is futile” point…this is admittedly a flimsy counter argument, but the best way around that is to say the villains after the end of No Way Home actually become time variants of their prime counterparts, essentially just creating an alternate timeline within their respective movies.

That was highly appreciated. I also thought the enemies still died and wasn't too put off by that. Thought it was cool, tragic irony the characters never considered. But the VERY end? Does he have an identification? Did he never go to their school? Was everything erased? How does she have the necklace? I really, REALLY appreciate you offering really sound possible explanations for that! 🥰

Also for those who confused Peter had to swap out his suit because the system remembers him as Peter Parker not Spider-Man but she knows he's Spider-Man but mainly knows him as Peter Parker if that makes sense which is why he was in a different suit at the end of the movie

If the last spell in the movie applies to Dr Strange as well, then in the events of The Multiverse of Madness, Strange doesn't immediately know why the Multiverse is fractured...because for him to remember the spell, he would have to remember why he cast it, which would mean he would have to remember Peter.

To be fair to Tom's Peter, he could never predict that the villains were inevitably going to redeem themselves or be killed. By the time the other Peters came into the frame, Tom Peter's decision was made and Aunt May had died.

It was a great movie, Willem Dafoe was fantastic, and Tom Hardy plays Venom SO WELL

A small suggestion (and I am telling this only because I love the MCU ): But could it be that no one noticed Doc Ock's transportation to Tom's Universe, he got cured here and went back to Tobey's universe, realises his mistake, and finally makes the decision to save the city by sacrificing himself. It would explain Doc Ocks sudden change of mind and be a way cooler ending to THE OG Spider-Man 2 Film. Just a cool theory I thought about. But hey that's just a theory. A mini theory. AAAND CUT

If I remember correctly, when we first see the box, Doctor Strange talks about how he contained the spell, but "a few of them slipped through." This could also explain the villain thing, conveniently the villains and Spider-Men made it through but no one else.

"Why only the villains" Honestly, the plotline I was thinking about during the movie was if Andrew's spiderman finds an alive Gwen and becomes the Star Lord of the film.

I liked how electro was portrayed. He wasn't necessarily evil He just wanted what he wanted and was willing to do what was necessary to accomplish that. He continuously tells Spider-Man not to make him murderer or don't make him do something he'd regret. He genuinely doesn't want to do it but it's fully prepared to do it. otherwise you wouldn't have said anything he would have just done it

Depending on when the Lizard was transported to the MCU, the Lizard cure could possibly save Gwen and her father. If the Lizard was transported to the MCU before he hurts George Stacy (Gwen's father) he would come back as normal Curt Connors and George would survive. He also told Peter to keep Gwen away from danger, so he would probably stop her from getting involved with the fight and save her life. (I know this video was made a while ago, but I still wanted to share) Edit: I also just realised a pattern. All of the villains seem to be transported a little bit after they learn Peter's identity. For example Peter takes his mask off before asking Otto how to turn off the machine. Then Otto gets mad and grabs him by the throat. Electro is transported when he is absorbing power in the grid. This point in the movie takes place just a little bit after Gwen calls out Peter's name. So if the pattern continues the Lizard would be cured and transported back to before he killed George Stacy.

I'm impressed with how MatPat was able to make everthing about the plots and background info click together. Hats of to you sir.

I'm honestly not surprised that Spidey and Strange botched the spell, considering Strange is too eager to dive into stuff he shouldn't and is far too used to just "getting things done" so he didn't even consider that Peter might wanna exclude some people. Then, Peter just realizing he has several people he still wants to keep in the loop mid-spell in a typical "my actions are moving faster than my thoughts" way just made for a beautiful recipe for disaster. I do sortof wanna see a alternate script where Peter managed to specify he wanted everyone to forget everything regarding Mysterio, as that'd cover his identity and the false murder charges.

I think the main thing with ‘Make everyone forget I ever existed’ applies to all the media, the texts, the book, the application, everything. It erases all notions of Peter’s existence.

I think they could explain it away (with a little slop maybe), by saying the spell took the shortest route to rewrite memories, with as few changes as possible. So it would depend on how well the person knew Peter and whether they thought of him primarily as "Peter Parker" or "Spiderman" whether he was suited up or not. Happy and the other Avengers would forget Peter Parker but remember Spiderman pretty clearly, because they mostly know "Spiderman" and think of Peter Parker as Spiderman's secret identity. In other words, the memory files in their brains would think of Peter Parker as a subset of Spiderman. It would make their memories tend to skew towards Spiderman as the main identity. So maybe Happy remembers that Aunt May was related to Spiderman as a caretaker, but not Spiderman's real identity because it's easier to overwrite that way. Like he'd remember Aunt May saying "That's Peter [Parker]'s room," but now he thinks of it as "That's Spiderman's room" when he recalls it. But People like Ned and MJ, because they were so intimate with Peter, would have re-written all their memories of Spiderman with Peter's identity. They wouldn't think, "That time Spiderman saved me." even if they didn't know his identity at the time. They would have thought "The time Peter [Parker] saved me.", so they'd have a lot more memories overwritten. Like it could depend on whether you think of Peter Parker as "Peter Parker" the person who happens to be Spiderman(whether he's in costume or not), or "Spiderman" the superhero with the secret identity of "Peter Parker". Sort of the way fans from our world would meet Peter Parker and say, "Dude! You're Spiderman!" because we think of him as Spiderman with his costume off. Like if he died and someone else became Spiderman, we'd think of Peter as "the original Spiderman" rather than the human being who was Peter Parker. But for MJ and Ned, he would always be Peter Parker.

I think it’s possible that Otto survived after being returned to his timeline. I always interpreted the ending of Spider-Man 2 as Otto choosing to die with his machine, since we know that he was having thoughts of suicide before the arms convinced him to rebuild. Without the arms influence, he would have a clear enough head to get himself out of there before he gets dragged under, saving himself.

I literally just got out of the theatre the timing with this video was perfect lmaoo

I know you’ve done a Bee Movie theory before but, hear me out, I think a theory estimating how many bees would actually be needed to hold and fly a plane would be very interesting to watch. (Or if it’s even possible for any amount of bees to do so)

I’m so excited to see how they’re going to continue Peter Parker’s character. I personally think one of the avengers (or the guardians of the galaxy) are gonna drag Spider-Man back (because he’s still an avenger) and Spider-Man is going to fight with them again. Maybe dr strange will remember who Spider-Man is. The avengers at some point are going to know who Peter Parker is, and how he was associated with Tony Stark. I’m super excited for Peters new role in the MCU

My only criticism on this theory is that he helped them get into MIT. That was only AFTER they were denied due to "recent events" involving their close friend, and said relationship. So if anything him being wiped would just, by default, give them better chances.

One question that I had was: Does the spell of everyone forgetting about Peter Parker only affect the Tom Holland "Peter Parker", or does the lack of specifying which Peter Parker is targeted mean that the spell affects any and every Peter Parker in the multiverse?

But Peter doesn't need that GED book at all, he's a genius.

My problem with this movie was that in the final moments where Tom Holland was asking strange to make everyone forget about him, strange just warns him that everyone that knew him and love him would forget him, like, dr. Strange could've said that the first time peter ask him for the spell, it would've avoided peter tampering with the spell and the whole movie's then useless. That's the story line of the movie, ik but if you think about it, it can be a stupid reason.

My head cannon for Doc Ock is that during his time being cured in the MCU he had more time to think of a way to take down his machine in a safe way where he doesn’t have to die. This isn’t stated in the movie at all but I feel like it’s a cool thought and it’s what I like to believe.

The real question: Shouldn't MJ still remember the existence of Dr. Strange? Wouldn't this make it more plausible for her to believe the story about the spell, and so easier for her relationship with Peter to start again?

It’s funny how the morbius thing wasn’t a fake out and the vulture is working with him in order to get back to his universe, he still knows peters identity due to being put in a different reality before the mind wipe

I think Peter's friends still crossed into the MCU, but they never encountered the main characters. Kinda like Eddie Brock at the end of the movie.

"That leaves Electro andGreen Goblin, neither of whom want to be cured." True, but what the movie considers important is that Norman Osborne does. In fact, it's his desire to be freed from the Goblin that causes Peter to try to save all of the villains in the first place. Both the Original Spider Man as well as No Way Home make it clear that the Goblin acts as a sort of second consciousness that can take control of the body from Osborne, which leads to the question of who you would rather help, a mentally strained man desperately clinging on to the sanity he has left, or a murderous psychopath responsible for the trauma of the former. The answer is so obvious I shouldn't have to finish this sentence telling you what the right ans- A similar argument can be had for Electro. The ethical nature of your decision becomes rather redundant when dealing with someone who's thrown out ethics to begin with. That and yourself and others will likely die if you don't cure them. Human lives lost tend to be a big factor in decisions like this.

Why doesn't Peter's spell affect the other spiderman as well to where people in their universe forget about them too?

Matpat being surprised by a new cutout of him is genius

Spoiler: Doctor Strange said, "yeah we did the same thing with Peter Parker" or something like that in Doctor Strange 2 so does he remember Peter, and does Wong remember too? Also are all the Peters in every universe forgotten too.

I literally had the same EXACT question right after leaving the film with my granparents. I were telling them about all of the unexplained things and they were just confused lol

Problem with the "doc ock still dies" thing: 1. In the movie Spider-Man asked to help stop the reactor and Otto said that he would do it alone. (with the new timeline, maybe he asked Peter for help that time.) and 2. He basically committed suicide since his last words were "I will not die a monster". (and because of his experiences in the mcu and if spider-man help him with the reactor, that could mean that he doesn't die there.)

It was so crazy in Morbius when Morbius paid homage to this video predicting him by his famous closing like, "that's just a morbius, a MORBING morbius, thanks for Morbing"

I think there is one more major problem with this movie. How curing and sending back "villains" to their universes, would affect their realities?? My point is, Dr. Strange failed the spell and bring the "villains" to his universe, that mean that they are from past. And if Peter #2, Goblin, Sandman and Doc Ock are from same universe, and the "villains" are ripped out of their universe, wouldn't that affect future Peter #2 that we see in movie?? Same with Peter #3, Lizard and Electro. I mean, Lizard is ripped out of the past, before being cured. If that would affect Peter #3, he wouldn't remeber that he already cured him once. My problem is, that how could they go to Peter #1 universe, when most of them are already dead?? Cuz both Peters are from present. That would mean, that the spell didn't only destroy the realities and Multiverse but time as well?? I just don't what to think about. Because I think, if they are somehow coming from past, that it would affect Peters. My theory is, that they are all from different universes. Seven universes. Each for one character. "Villain's" are not from past, but their universes. That mean that what is gonna happend and it's happening in their universes, is not affecting Peters. Peters know what happened in the past of their universes. And "villains" are just living it now. I think it make sence. For me. It's just a idea.. so if you disagree, I get it.

11:00 That conversation actually happened the other way around, but whatever, not important. The reason Aunt May is still connected to Spider-Man without Peter Parker is that Spider-Man was FEAST's mascot, FEAST being the homeless shelter that May ran. He helped out a lot, did speeches, that sort of thing, and if you take Peter out of the equation that all still checks out.

I think Vulture's actually more of a threat now, as his sense of honour probably got lost alongside his memories of Peter, meaning him forming or joining the MCU sinister six is very much on the cards.

WOW!!!! Extremely well done theory at the end there!!! Like holy moly, that’s so impressive how you were able to define the peter parker spell. It seemed way too tricky to me!!! Great job!!

I've always thought that Sandman died. After Peter forgave him, he finally had peace with himself and then moved on to the afterlife. The only thing keeping him from disintegrating into sand was his will to live.

It’s actually happy who asks how Peter knew May. Peter’s response is “through Spider-Man” which is vague enough to really negate all follow up questions happy might wrestle with.

I think it’s very possible the reason only the villains showed up is because the other characters didn’t draw attention to themselves, it’s a bit easier to point out someone with 4 giant mechanical arms than, say Mary Jane

Up to this point the best explanation I had for Electro knowing Peter’s identity was that “he absorbs data and figured it out right before” explanation but Matpat’s further analysis of it is REALLY GOOD. My head canon for the villains after being sent home is that they make new branch timelines where they potentially survive, it depends when they were plucked out. Sandman and Lizard would obviously survive, they never had to die. Electro could’ve survived afterwards now that he’s just a regular human so he wouldn’t be stuck to the grid absorbing energy eventually exploding. You’d think Green Goblin would die because he was plucked out right before his death by the glider but his suit at the beginning of the movie is completely clean while his suit is damaged in that final scene so he must’ve been plucked out to Tom’s world before the final battle with Tobey so he could survive. Doctor Octavious is sadly the one who would probably have to die either way unless they figured out some other way of dealing with the current problem at the end of Spider-Man 2. I think this theory also explains Peter’s identity and how that works too, great video all around!

i honestly just think the spell would make all of the things Peter Parker did, under the name of Spiderman instead, so mj, ned, happy hogan would remember being "girlfriend of spiderman", "best friend of spiderman", etc. so all things peter did, is still there, and all things that happened to peter still exists, but just under the name of Spiderman

What the spell does in the comics is that it puts a phycological block on anyone who knows Peter Parker. Anyone researching into who is spider man wouldn’t be able to figure it out even if all the evidence points towards Peter the spell stops people from making the connection. Happy would remember all his time with Peter but would remember who he is thus he might know that Spider-Man is a relative of May. Depending who the writers take it Ned and MJ might remember their times with Spider-Man and their relationship but they wouldn’t know Peter

In my own head cannon, I like to think that everything that Peter had a direct physical influence with just becomes Spider-Man. Instead of “Peter did this “ it’s “Spider-Man did this”. He still has a social security and all that, but anyone that knew him just either can’t remember the more personal stuff, or is replaced with a Spider-Man memory. After all, it’s Magic. EDIT: I just watched to the end and yeah I agree, or if it was really personal again it’ll just be replaced with Spider-Man or forgotten entirely.

I actually think it's more like they just don't recognize it. In 5 kingdoms(amazing book series btw) when they shift dimensions, people forget they existed and everything that was there was just not recognized in there eyes. Idk, that's what I think

I think the memory wipe is the whole Gaster thing It's all deleted, but people still remember some things. Some tiny little fragments persist. Things like the necklace and MJ's deja vu for peter and the core and DT extractor for Gaster. But things like texts and videos just glitch out, photos and books still exist but peter's face is destroyed, and anyone who remembered him no longer remembers him. Sort of. After all, Sans and Papyrus, who literally spent their entire lives under gasters influence, figured it out. It's all been RESET. But the world still remembers the most important parts.

Maybe girlfriends, best friends, aunts also appeared in this dimension but the villains just make more mess so it's easier to know they're here. Nobody knew other spidermans were there because they haven't done anything publicly. We know they were there just because there was used a spell to locate them (because the spell didn't know which Peter Parker was supposed to be found).

One of my favorite parts about this movie was the social commentary that kids these days aren't taught about what options they have for their lives. Specifically, I'm referring to how shocked Peter was that he could petition the college. In fact, I also learned about it for the first time watching this movie. I was never taught in in high school nor is it something I would even think to look up. Maybe a family member would have taught me if it became important, but that wouldn't help people who don't have a family that would help them with those sort of things. Of course, the actual entertainment aspects of the movie were also great, but this part just stood out to me since I didn't expect something this real to be included in a superhero movie.

The way they marketed this movie was genius too. Before I went to boot Camp for the army in October, they hadn’t released any trailer & the movie was set to come out Dec. 17 which was the day it came out. Two months before release & they were teasing w/ a leaked audio of the trailer. The 1st trailer came out sometime in Nov & when I saw it when they let us make our phone calls, I was hyped. Lucky for me, I was the last class of that year to complete BCT for 2021 & arrived the 17th & I went straight to the theaters instead of going home cause it was my sister’s bday that day & she was just as hyped as me 😂

Great movie!! Might I also add, the spell brought the villains who knew Peter Parker was Spiderman… So how did Eddie Brock and Venom get there? Is there a Spiderman in his world we haven’t seen or heard of?

One question tho, didn't curing them and sending them back to their realities make new branches in the multiverse? And don't people have to forget Tobey's and Andrew's identity too for the spell to work?

Remember, in Far from Home, May was holding a charity event at the feast center for people brought back from the snap, Spiderman showed up as a esteemed guest, and happy was late bringing a check from Pepper, that's how he knows her through Spiderman Also that's how it can work that peter knows may through Spiderman, because happy is actually the one to ask

Continuing matpat’s train of thought. What if the reason Spider-Man chose not to talk to MJ and Ned is because of the side effects on perception from the magical spell? For example, the magic spell didn’t change anything just people’s perception, so Peter trying to talk to people who is under this perception nullification about his identity contradicts this spell. So the spell also subtly changed Peter’s idea of finding and explaining himself to Ned and MJ. Additional clues, Dr. Strange overheard everything Peter, Ned and MJ said about asking Peter to find them and fill them in, and still acted and responded with a “good knowing you Spider-Man” showing that he believes this is a permanent change.

I think that the villains both come from and go back to different universes from those we saw in the previous movies. That explains the minor inconsistencies about them dying fighting Spider-Man or knowing his identity, and allows them to go back to their universes as cured people without messing with the timelines of Raimi's Spider-Man or Amazing Spider-Man.

I felt that "curing" the villains was effectively more of just taking away a deadly weapon from someone who had a history of violent crime

Just for my own sake, I like to imagine that part of the spell is that people affected by the spell do not question how an event caused by Peter happened. The best example being the necklace, MJ would know the necklace is important to her and know roughly how she got it, but for some reason not question who gave it to her. I also hope they continue to reference past events in future Spider-Man appearances. It would be nice if Peter just knows certain characters better than he should and it confuses them, just as a joke or something.

i got to say mat, i have never seen a better explained theory so far. Good job

1:12 lol you even added the thing about ice skating uphill from blade

I've got a darker theory for you. Strange's spell affected the entire multiverse, meaning that everyone in every reality forgot who Peter Parker is. As sad as it was to see Tom lose his MJ imagine Toby going home and discovering that the love of his life for the last 20 years no longer remembers him....

Given how much multiversal and time altering shenanigans happened in this movie I think it’s perfectly reasonable to think that maybe they were transported back at least a couple minutes before they died, giving them a chance to redeem themselves before their final moments. I do think that an equally interesting question would be whether or not each villain being sent back resulted in their own split timelines or if they were somehow all sent back to a single timeline which adjusted itself so that all of them could survive at the same time. Taking the Raimi (Tobey Macguire) films as an example, if Goblin suddenly had a change of heart at the end of spider-man 1, there’s no reason to believe that the events of the second movie would have happened, and they almost certainly would not have happened in the same way. Therefore, when Doc Ock was sent back, he would be in yet another universe which wasn’t his own since Osborn would be alive despite Ock remembering his death. Not only would that be extremely convoluted, but the mcu already established in Endgame that it uses a split timeline system of time travel, so it’s safe to say that they were sent to split timelines. That means that this movie created a total of five timelines just from the Raimi trilogy alone: One that played out like the original movies, One where Osborn lived and the fates of Doc Ock and sandman are unknown One where Osborn died, Doc lived, and the fate of Sandman is unknown, One where Osborn and Doc die, and Sandman is cured, And one that plays out exactly like the original trilogy except that there is one very confused Peter Parker at the end wondering why nothing changed.

we will all miss you matpat so long soldier

7:34 ish Doc oc, I heard from an explanation that made sense to me was that, the explanation in the film, helps explain why he had that reason to be a hero. He tells his arms to listen to him and they obey. He's taking back control of his arms. 11:55 great theory! that makes so much sense.

While I may not like exactly how "No Way Home Ends" I do love how it sets Spiderman to not needing anyone else's help and him becoming his own hero without Iron man/avengers. Peter making his own Suit with a sewing machine fixed a small problem I always had with MCU Spiderman and Can't wait to see how he is developed from here on out.

I find Electros talk being "in the grid" similar to the other villains. It's probably a different fight, later on, or their universe is different. Maybe he was attempting to become a super intelligent being, by fusing himself with some massive database, which led to his mind being over filled with info, causing him to lose himself and go insane. Thats why his "memory" ends there.

In the end of the movie we see Venom from the Venom universe. How is this possible if the Venom universe doesn't have a Spiderman/ Peter Parker?

Here are a couple of thoughts for you. The thing with Dr. Octavius being seconds away from changing his mind and destroying his reactor, as mention in his discussion of holding his Peter by the neck and he was pulled out at that very second. In No Way Home they repair the inhibitor chips. Maybe the reason he had a change of heart in his original universe can be explained by the fact he was pulled out of that particular moment and into Tom Holland’s universe to have it repaired and then when he got sent back, he went back with the repaired chip and he realized that he needed to make the ultimate sacrifice. And as I typed that, one could argue that same line of thinking for that universe’s green goblin. Mr. Osborn went back cured just in time to get impaled and realized if Harry found out he went crazy it would be devastating to his son prompting him to say “Don’t tell Harry”. The other thing was that you said Peter had a direct hand in MJ and Ned got into MIT, he only had a hand in it because of the controversy of his outing as spider man the school declined. If his outing had never happened I am sure they would have gotten in anyway so that can still happen despite Peter’s involvement.

I kinda thought while watching this, “Didn’t they say in Endgame that changing the past doesn’t change the future? How do the villains survive?” I knew I wasn’t the only one.

In the comics, when a person's memories are wiped and they come across something that whould have made them remember something, they simply say "I'm not allowed to remember that" and move on. This way, everything connected to Peter like his student records, the Happy-May connection and the necklace can still exist, but people can simply not remember why these things exist because they are 'not allowed to' by the spell.

11:05 it was the other way round. Plus when happy says "same" its probably just for a joke because hes trying to fit in

What I believe is that there will be a vulture coming back movie. Vultures first interaction with Peter was through spider man, he may not remember the identity of spider man, and the interactions of that identity, but he does remember spider man thwarting his plans at certain points in the movie. An argument for that is that Vulture still saw peters face towards the end when he got defeated, making it so that the memory wipe would’ve made it so that never happened. But in my opinion, the fact that Peter first fought him wearing the mask, and then it came off during the fight, could suggest that when vulture was finally defeated that he ended up forgetting Peter after he passed out, resulting in him correlating Spider-Man with Peter to be forgotten.

The second half reminds me of how memory wipes happen in Doctor Who. Maybe everyone has a hole in their memory but simply don't investigate it as they are wired to ignore those holes to the point they don't realize they're there. MJ doesn't question where she got the necklace through the spell's filtering of those kind of thoughts. But that's Peter's way in. Once he gets her or Ned to question the connection they'll realize they do have holes in their memories that it would then begin to fill as the details come back.

I'll have to disagree on this theory when it said it was a lost cause for Sandman. Yeah, he doesn't died but he does gets to return back as a physically human being. Which leads him to spend time with his daughter while aging alongside her until he dies first by old age.

There's also the possibility of all the girlfriends and best friends making it to the MCU universe, but just not having been on the radar; the bad guys were on the radar because they were wreaking havoc. Second pointer on what's also a possibility; Peter Parker manages to get that appartment either- after a lot of hard work to get his credit score and ID... -or- probably more likely considering the legendary Peter Parker bad luck; it's a very shady landlord, but the only one willing to let him rent.

I personally think it actually explains why Doc Ock turns good, we don't see him leave in the original movie it's was just seemless and he returns to his original state before going thru the multiverse but his mind is still ok for a short time but he dies within second or minutes before he turns back to evil in order to save Tobey's Peter in order to have this happen all over again. Or just we didn't get the original spidermen and since it's a multiverse and he got ones with similar timelines but with small differences or also them getting pulled into Tom's universe was a branching of their respective timelines