Hey everyone!! Just also wanna give a quick thanks to all the anonymous people who helped me with the Angeldust segment. Gonna be honest, I’m not the best at wording things and I’m very dumb. But the conversations I had with you guys were easily some of the best and most interesting I’ve ever had, both in agreement and disagreement of the show’s quality. I’m just glad I was able to make something as respectful as i could, and meet so many unique voices in the process!! I put together as much feedback as I could (obviously i couldn’t include everything) and I’m glad so many people were able to help me. It really made me reconsider some of my own views on the subject and just reinforced to me that no matter what, humans are fucking cool. Tldr idk if y’all will see this or if I said everything correctly, but thank you so much. 💖💖💖
when Mr. Hazbin said "it's my fucking hotel and shit!" and verbalase exploded all over the place I shed a tear of joy. Truly the masterpiece we all deserved.😢😢
Viziepop's biggest issue imo is that she gets too invested in her characters and has them just "hanging around" instead of actually building to the larger narrative organically.
Yeah I can see that, to her credit though characters is a pretty strong suit of hers but plots and general story not so much, and by extension that limits her characters also.
@@redpanda6497 I disagree. I think most people, even in the industry, agree her character designs are pretty stellar. Her silhouettes are great. Her writing is definitely questionable but her art is👨🏻🍳
“A used-to-be indie animator’s show that now runs on a major streaming site, that has lots of interesting ideas, but has no idea what the hell to do and the plot loses itself when it tries to go big” Why does this remind me of RWBY a lot, like down to the world background intro with the silhouettes?
Because the writing on RWBY was never its strong suit, and the show was entirely built around monty oum fight scenes (the best part by far) so when he died there was literally no point to the show.
No because that bothered me a lot like a lot..because like how do you treat one character that is a sa victim serious yet make a joke about another character being sa'd..
I got into an argument with people who defend that scene, either by claiming that it wasn't an SA joke, but the framing and the fact that people used the "well, he shouldn't have said he wanted to have s3x with everyone" excuse. Some people seem weirdly defensive about the scene instrad of just admitting that the joke is terrible and is a sudden whiplash from a show where SA is depicted very seriously in an earlier episode.
@@devofficialchannel him saying “I’m having sex with everyone!” In a very awkward almost joking tone and then very clearly being forced into a room while scratching and clawing at the ground and not wanting to participate is pretty clear what’s happening. Not much room for reading in between the lines on that, that scene should not exist or at minimum have just as much warning as the poison episode did in my opinion
@@MBSMythic Also, people seem too quick to assume that "someone saying that they want to have sex with everyone" = "okay to be forcefully dragged by tons of people into a private room". Again, it somewhat makes sense that the denizens of Hell have zero respect for boundaries, but the fact that Sir Pent's situation is played for laughs while Angel's is played more seriously comes across as hypocritical on Viv's end.
@@devofficialchannelwell it's because he's not a protagonist obviously.. in the show that's entire thesis is "sinners can be redeemed, and hell is an unnecessary and cruel punishment"
Hazbin Hotel just feels more like a compilation of """""powerful""""" moments that lack the necessary buildup that would've made said moments powerful.
It really feels like TikTok esque style of telling a story. Super fast, super condensed, throwing as many big moments as possible but lacking any structure or coherence.
@@blacksesamecandies That and the deviant art character design. All the characters look like a professional version of something 15 year old me would of drawn during my "edgy phase".
Fun fact: there is a fanmade Serbian dub of Hazbin Hotel that is unironically 10 times better. Not even a normal dub mind you it changes background text into specific Serbian references and it's own cultural inside jokes. It feels more like an abridged than anything. It made me realize that certain things work much better in certain cultural contexts, in Serbian you don't notice the constant swearing because we just do that. It's like watching the Mexican Simpsons.
Yes the pacing is way too fast. But I don’t blame the writer, there is this whole eight episodes every 2 years in streaming culture. And Hazbin hotel is just too complex of a series to be able to cram 2 seasons worth of storyline in 8 episodes. This type of show needed 25 episodes a season just like the older shows.
@@oceanexblve884 I dunno I feel like 13 could've done the job but I agree that 8 episodes is pretty short especially if they are only 20 minutes long, like Invincible also releases their shit under the 8 episode format but at least their episodes are almost an hour long so it's like they have 16 Hazbin episodes worth of material. Though I heard that apparently they weren't confirmed a season two till much later into production so part of the rushed pacing might be them going all out in case they didn't get a second season.
I think the creator of hazbin listens to Fans a lot because the fans told the creator they didn’t want offensive jokes in the show and now there’s no offensive jokes in the show
@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq well everyone and i mean like 90% of people on twitter critiqued the movie for how much swearing is in the show and viv got very unhappy. I genuinely think there was just a lack of creativity with the humour. Although i could be wrong.
As someone who was a fan of the original Hazbin Hotel pilot, I can't help but feel cheated and disappointed. I was promised a character-driven comedy about shitty people becoming redeemed and their struggles doing so, maybe delving into their pasts on Earth a little bit, not this big grand epic stuff about war with Heaven and all of this nonsense. This show succeeds when it is character-driven, save for the absolutely vile mishandling of Angel Dust's SA, but falls flat on its face when it tries to do anything else. The pacing is exhaustingly breakneck, and it feels like I'm watching an ADHD-riddled ten-year-old child's idea for a cartoon, only with sex and swearing.
I agree. I was very interested in HH after seeing the pilot years ago, and watching this... it immediately disappointed me, and only redeemed a few aspects. Most of it is just a downgrade from the pilot, which is the opposite of what you'd expect since they actually had a studio backing it this time around. But no, it was just worse...
And DON’T get me started when Sir pentious got SA’d at episode 6. Which was 2 episodes apart from episode 4 when angel dust gets SA’d. Tbh, it felt it was worthless of what episode 4 was trying to portray when they just casually made a SA joke of sir pentious even though it’s a very fucking serious crime. Not to mention, sir pentious was drunk when he said that he wanted to have sex with everyone.
I really respect how quickly you can go from the funny meme shit in the beginning to having an actual serious conversation without making any ironic jokes about it or ruining the mood. Amazing video dude.
I once heard the advice for animators, writers, and the like: tell, don't show. You can imply something, but don't have to spell it out, make a visual of it. It's sometimes so much better for the story to imply. I'm a survivor of SA, and personally had to skip most of the episode and the entire Poison music number due to having it shown, rather than told.
@@jinglemybells And that's your choice to make, but they don't need to tell the story the way you want it to be told because it makes you uncomfortable. It does not make the show 'worse' or imply that the writers are bad at storytelling, just that it's not to your preference. There's a reason they put a warning at the beginning of that episode specifically. Did you think you were special and that it didn't apply to you? Or that your trauma - and opinion - is somehow worth more than others'?
@@sweatygoblin2335 woah, woah. I am a HUGE fan of the show and I do like the way the story is paced personally, this was pretty much the only gripe I had. I watched the episode before the warning was put there; immediately after the episode came out. And never once did I imply I was special for my opinion, nor that my opinion was worth more than others. I know I’m not special for it, and that my opinion ultimately doesn’t matter. But I still have the ability to share it and, even when Hazbin Hotel is one of my favorite shows at the moment and I have an unhealthy obsession with Sir Pensious, I can still be critical of the one moment that I was unable to stomach due to how it was told.
@@jinglemybells Sorry you had to go through but you are allowed to skip through those parts. You don't have to agree with imagery and if you don't agree then that's perfectly fine.
25:08 As a SA survivor I will say that I had the same thought as you with the scene of Angel Dust getting SA. I feel like if the song was muted and less glorified, I think that would make a better representation of SA.
@@SpringyGirl69 NGL while the song is a bop I can see why it rubbed people the wrong way. The only way I can imagine to get more people to accept the intention while keeping the lyrics is to make it less upbeat (or change it to a minor key but I'm not a musician)
The joke itself was relatively mild. It wasn't so much of a diss and more of a "[PG-rated show] if it was written in the style of [R-rated show]". Like I remember watching those videos of "If Star Wars was R-rated" where Jar Jar blows up into pieces and blood and organs spill out. The "written by Vivziepop" joke is meant to somewhat be like that.
As an S/A+pedophilia survivor, I felt fairly represented by poison, but as i was literally watching the show with my serogate Mom I would have prefered it a BIT less explicit, and understand others opinions on it
and hazbin fans rolling their eyes when SA survivors have a criticism on how Angel's AS was handled in the show, along with how Sir Pentious SA scene was treated as a joke. @@BeesOfInk
To give a uncharitable summary 1. demons look like furrys 2.characters say F*ck every microsecond they get the chance to 3. Half descent music 4. Angels look like monsters with eyes 5. Underwhelming relationships (main character and love interest) 6. Weird daddy issues 7. Undercutting a serious topic such as sexual assault with a inappropriate music number 8. Generic character that aren’t fully explored or reinvented 9. To many sex jokes Need I go on
Need to add has no idea Abrahamic philosophy is. How can one write a story about redemption, “highlighting, religion hypocrisy without understanding the fundamentals of said philosophy.
The scene where Angel Dust is getting uh. Thrusted into by force.. made me feel some type of way. I am a survivor of sa, and honestly I like Angel’s story and really hope we see him getting away from Valentino but that.. should’ve had a trigger warning. I cried after that “music video” for a really long time. Just idk, feeling pity for a fictional character may be weird to you but I didn’t want to see that. I knew the implications of what Angel suffered already. I really didn’t need to basically see it happening without any warning. It was almost like a jumpscare. I love the song, I liked the idea of Angel making a music video. I even really liked the video outside of those specific flashes, but Vivzie DEFINITELY should’ve handled that better in my opinion
Oh you know what fuck that I just finished the whole video and Vivienne is a complete asshole. I ain’t watching that shit anymore. Wow. I cannot believe she speaks to people that way publicly and thinks that it’s okay.
@@joeymalaria4702 but there are better, non-triggering ways to do so. That video could've sent someone into a flashback. It could be very harmful to someone's mental state..
As someone that very much enjoyed Helluva Boss, I agree with most of this video. Hazbin Hotel just feels very rushed... and that's sad considering how long this has been in the works for... it does make me wonder if it would have been better if it stayed a RU-vid series with the fans backing up the show through merch and patreon. Oh well. I give it a 7/10 max as it stands now. I'm just disappointed with how fast we went from opening the hotel, to the first execution day. Could have learned a lot more about each character if they got some episodes each that focus on them, + the world around them/society of Hell. You meet new groups/factions so fast... more foreshadowing could have helped a lot. Not to mention the Pilot... I feel like it should have been episode 1 or at least incorporated more into the actual show. You get stuff like Alistor talking about how he named the hotel Hazbin Hotel but that was at the end of the pilot...
It absolutely should’ve stayed as an indie YT series, when I heard how it was acquired by A24 and will be on Amazon Prime, I dropped interest right away and I thoroughly enjoyed the pilot.
Like how in the hell is it possible for a show to be developed for 5 years? And instantly coming out looking like slop? Viv was NOT chefing up at the kitchen that even Gordon Ramsay would be ashamed.
@@mrspeki characters, animation, writing, all over the place. People wanna praise the show but never look deep into it lmao- like what is happening??
@@Lajos_Kelemen I'd agree. I mean Helluva boss is a YT series and does fine, with almost the exact same animation and quality(at least for season 2 it is).
hazbin hotel fans after dying and ending up in hell only to realize that satan isn't a quirky progressive and is actually there to eternally torment them
As someone who followed Viv all the way from her Zoophobia days, i agree with the 5/10. I have characters i love, and even some songs, but I'm not going back to rewatch episodes. Viv says she was inspired by Bojack Horseman, but if she wrote that show, BJ would be trying to off himself by episode 4😅
Addict was way better than Poison. Like it wasnt graphic at all when it came to SA scenes. Only Valentino forcefully kissing him. And that was ENOUGH to imply he was just a victim of SA and hells ruthless soul system. Cherri was abused in her past life, Angel is getting sa ted in his after life. They were besties who can forget about bad things they experienced by spending time with eachother like dancing and fighting together. Nothing graphic, good vibes only😚😚✌🏽✌🏽 Also if the scene where Cherri comforted Angel could have been a message to SA survivors if explored further, like in a way to say that they are not alone, it wasnt their fault and they should never be ashamed. And we would get to see Angel and Cherris dynamic further, friends should comfort eachother when the one another needs it. Also I like it when male and female friendships doesnt evolves into something romantic, like Brett and Reagan from Inside Job. Anyways live laugh love Hazbin Hotel Pilot.
@Pencil-Paper poison is a better song but addict handles its on screen depiction of SA more tastefully, I feel that with some toning down of the imagery in Poison could've gone a long way in making it less controversial.
The spoof using Bioshock's intro is so on point, it's almost a perfect criticism in its own right. This show got my ire because it literally doesn't hold its plot together even with duct tape and dreams, and then there's the biggest meme that sums up the show's entirety; "Hazbin Hotel; A show about Hell. No Muderers No Racists No Robbers No Corrupt Politicians/Dictators No Heretics/Pagans/Non-Christian groups No Evidence of the Betrayal of God by Lucifer Just Homosexuals and horny demons... what did VivziePop mean by this?"
To my recollection Angel Dust gets robbed in the pilot, the Vees are basically evil politicians, Katie Killjoy says some homophobic shit in the pilot, and there's there's bunch of people killing each other as well as a whole neighbourhood of cannibals, but those are mostly singular instances and it is still kinda sanitized in general so you're right. Though toning down hell does go into the idea of Hell and Heaven working like a system handled by fallible creatures as an allegory for *SoCiEtY*, as cringe as that may sound, and it also makes sense of the idea of redemption being maybe possible. I still agree it's pretty toned down for hell, but I think it makes more sense to look at hell as kind of an allegorical favela/hood while heaven is the privileged city government keeping the status quo out of belief in its quality, this clearly isn't particularly accurate to the bible though it gets obviously inspired from it just like how films based on Greek mythology take the source material and do whatever the fuck they want with it. And the whole show seems to be about getting second chances at fixing your mistakes, with Lucifer creating sin being framed as a mistake that he got punished for from the other angels who already were disapproving of his eccentric ideas potentially messing up the armory and absolute order they wanted to maintain. I still think it should have delved more into actual unpleasant sins but there's barely enough time for the story so that unfortunately wasn't gonna happen.
@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qqthen you absolutely did not watch the show Alastor isn't grey, none of the V's are grey, Adam isn't grey, and the rest of hell where they show them murdering and eating eachother, aside from Rosie and Carmille, aren't grey either
20:25 thats actually an interesting point you made. I never thought about that. One of my closest friends was a victim of SA when she was young and she was a usually happy and bubbly person but she said the word "rape" A LOT. Like a lot a lot. Like how gamers used to talk in 2005. Everything was getting "fucked" or "raped" when it came to her. It was funny most of the time but once you noticed it's frequency, it did get alarming. Like she would flirt aggressive like that too, which was admittedly funny to witness but again, sad in context. She told me what she went thru it was chilling to hear about.
vivz is a fujo because i use to follow her back. I'm a sa victim. On her twitter she's always liking val x angel stuff plus a storyboard artist of hers sexualizes rpe they've said it themselves, they have a rpe kink, they also post val x angel shit even tho they work for the series. Vivz also defends people who favorite valentino. She named him after her cat. She also had to make him "attractive" for obvious reasons. You can still portray sa respectfully but still fetish it. She makes merch off of angels rpist. I feel offended by her portrayal of SA especially when she defends her rpist oc by saying he's fake so people could simp over him
@@FolfahNot garbage shows. A lot of fan bases suck. Steven Universe and Hazbin are good shows. Star Wars is objectively good but we all know about that fanbase
The segment on episode 4 was extremely well done, and I applaud you for reaching out to actual SA survivors like that. I've seen other RU-vidrs handle the subject horrendously, so as far as I'm concerned you set the example here 🙏
As a survivor of SA, I actually appreciate how the subject was presented in "Poison." I can understand why some victims didn't like it as it's very graphic and confrontational, and their opinions are 100% valid. One observation I had was that "Poison" is very similar to the song "All You Wanna Do" from the musical "Six." Both use pop music and flashy aesthetics to convey the singer's state of mind/environment while also communicating the toxicity, danger, and anguish their abuse creates. I also think that some people misinterpreted the tone of "Poison". many people forget that the last singing part of the song shifts the tones to a more sad and depressing tone. The entire song is basically a juxtaposition.
I love this video! I’ve been critical of Vizie’s work for a while even getting into a small argument because I said there’s only two ways to handle criticism. Reply in a mature way or ignore it which she didn’t like my opinion on that. A possibility for Angel Dust is maybe he makes a lot of jokes to hide from the trauma he’s experiencing however them showing the SA scene was fucked up, they could have done something similar to Moral Orel like you showed where they didn’t show the assault just implied it and showed her having a panic attack because of a Trauma Response. I’m not a survivor however I don’t blame anyone if episode 4 insulted them. I wish Viziepop would understand that instead of being so damn hostile all the time. Plus just a personal opinion, I don’t like that there’s multiple songs in every episode it feels so overwhelming. Still love the series but there’s a lot of problems
@uardogomesribeiropen324 Survivor here and they make some good points. They totally undercut the servicable serious moment of AD getting beat up with a catchy pop song. The person who storyboarded it is a known rape/non-con fetishist that ships Valentino/AD and did porn of it. Which is who Vivzie is defending so harshly in those threads. The fetish artist was *not* a survivor and Vivzie lied openly about it to win an arguement. There is lots of ways to show it, but the key point is to showcase how awful it is. Mixing AD doing a porn movie that has hardcore bdsm to him partying, dancing sexy and having (seemingly) consensual sex he is enjoying is weird. Plus Hazbin Hotel goes out of it's way to tell it's own rape jokes showcased right along the "serious SA stuff" so it's extremely tone deaf. The way Angel Dust was handled was just like they tacked on him being abused as a quirky sad thing, instead of with the serious gravity it should've had. They *could* have written Angel Dust being hypersexual in a way that wasn't bordering on sexual harassment, but still funny. Instead of hitting on lots of people who are for the most part unwillingly. Why didn't they show him taking groups of guys into the hotel? Then bragging about it afterwards? Nope, instead they make him harass an unwilling grossed out Husk then try to ship it romantically. I think Dumbsville had a great point, its Hell but a very santized version of it. Like, sure there is rape, genocide, cannibalistic murdering, slavery ect.. but it's all so quickly glossed over and rarely gives any time to sink in. The *only* time they did it was when Valentino bead up Angel Dust then they completely ruin that scene with the Poison MV which just destroyed the mood.
It's a safe edgy show for no one, it's not for adults because it's not funny, it's not for kids given the content presented and it's just a bad show all around. I used to not care too much about Vivzie but she's the epitome of failing upwards, given all these opportunities just produce shit.
I’ve known about vivzie pop since high school and I found her stuff insanely annoying and unfunny even back then. My thoughts were “an invader zim hot topic girl made a show for everyone else like her”
That is a pretty good description given that I think she outright listed invader zim as inspiration for her stuff. I don't find it that much annoying, but her stuff can be rough as fuck around the edges and hopefully she can learn to improve, and get off Twitter and I don't say that to spite her I say that out of giving genuine good advice, her life will be much less stressful if she makes peace with the fact she doesn't have to respond to every bit of criticism.
The plot is so unfocused but the best part of the show is obviously the songs, however sometimes those lack the depth they need like with You Didn’t Know where is just a Hamilton like ballad with under development. As well as the Song with Charlie and her dad which is a very emotional song you’d want near the end but they just spit it out in episode 5. The songs are great on their own but I’m context leave a lot to be desired. Respectless is a bop tho
Not everyone would agree with what i will say, but the pilot episode where they explain that Lucifer is a misunderstood badly mistreated being that just wants good for the world that even heaven regrets to banish him, is just disgusting to adapt Lucifer in that way. Like i have no problem if they use the Devil for comedic purposes, or showing him as a anti-Hero, as long as they don't reference too much out of the bible lore. If it's just a generic Devil or demon that is very very loosely based or even no mentioning of the Bible lore. Then i have no problem with it. But they reference it anyway and put him in a good Light, and that pisses me of. It's like making an adaptation about Adolf Hitler, saying that he was a Hero and wants good for the world, and that the Americans and other countries that fought against the Nazis, regretted the decision they made, and are sad that they fought against the Nazis. I get it, it's an adaptation. But altering the story just to make him out as the victim is just awful, and also very misleading. Edit: fixed a few grammar mistakes.
For me the design of Valentino makes everything regarding the abuse…look silly? Like, the only way they thought they could depict S/A was a stereotypical 70’s pimp, that’s SO goofy. Literally giving old school drug PSA vibes. Might as well give him a white van with FREE CANDY written on it to hammer it in.
Good video in my opinion. I loved the show but it's not perfect obviously. Plus, As a SA survivor. You did good man. I actually like the song Poison. You made some really good points about the segment. Thanks for that. Have a amazing day.
Regardless of your opinion on this show (which I actually enjoyed all besides the horny humor and the terrible pacing) I respect the fact that there's finally negative criticism of Hazbin Hotel from people who actually bothered watching it instead of jumping on a hate wagon.
Yeah pretty much, theres a fine line between laying out your critcism in an honest and straightforward manner, and just hating something popular just for the sake of being a contrarian.
As a CSA victim, I don't think I've ever felt more seen in a show. However, I do think that it was treated a bit insensitive by the writers, not just because of it being a song number, but how we never see angel's recovery process. We are only told that he's been trying to heal, we were never shown. Which it's quite bazare as we are shown the SA, but not his process of healing from it. I know it's due to runtime, but that's why this whole topic should've just been planned for season 2 in general. The lack of a proper warning is also very insensitive, and I would be lying if I said I didn't get resurfaced memories. I can handle it, but I know others can not. I actually don't mind it being a musical number all that much as music in art is a way to help express extreme emotion and a character's way to vent out that emotion in ways that talking can not. Musical 101. But I still get a weird feeling about it that I can't quite pinpoint. I don't feel like I'm being exploited by the show all that much, but I can't say the same for how Viv handled the topic outside of it. She said she has animators that have been SA'd but it turns out that she was only saying that to deflect criticism and dosen't actually know. If the artist on the team has or hasn't been SA'd, I don't know, nor is it my place to speculate. However, what I do know is that one of the animators for the "Poison" scene has a non-consent intrest (i actually don't care if people have these turn ons or not. Kinks are kinks) that sort of poisons the scene in general for me. Yah they were animating bassed off the script, but still, I really don't know how to feel about that. Viv saying she's trying to represent all of us ultimately leads to not representing all of us. It's like autism representation, not all of us are the same. The same goes with SA victims. I don't mind it being shown in art, in fact I believe that it can expose the real harm behind it. But for me, it really boils down on how it's shown and the artist intentions. If the artist is an SA survivor and is venting it through art, then I don't see a problem. But they still require a blatant warning. But if it's an artist who hasn't gone through SA and is showing it, than I have sour tastes towards it. Especially if their intentions are for shock value.
You think it is for shock value? Viv went through SA herself. She stated multiple times she wanted to spread awareness. You wanted them to just play it down? That sounds more insensitive
The thing that I think is the main problem concerning the pacing is that Vivzie didn’t KNOW if Hazbin hotel would get another season. She had a bunch of really cool ideas and stories to tell, but she had very little time to tell it
The way she said how a lot of victims of SA develop kinks to cope doesn't make it better or justify the song. It IS fetishization. Some victims even MAKE it into a fetish to downplay the horrors they went through but that doesn't make it okay! Even some victims who went through SA as kids make THAT into a fantasy and harm kids themselves. Tf is wrong with her?!
Am I the only one who thinks otherwise? I got the impression that it wasn’t fetishized, but that it was made out to be not pretty, and they succeeded on that end.
@@Xanthos307 I think the main issue is just that these kinds of situations are placed in pop songs where there's a lot of glam in general that most people misinterpret. It's great that you among others see it, and I very much appreciate your comment, and then there are others who see this and actively seek out this type of relationship because they wish to relate in some strange way or want the same glam and gloom (gloom is often fetishized in a way as well). It's an odd phenomenon with people who are healthy but wish to be sick from seeing these things. For those who went through such tragedies, they understand it can turn into an addiction, yet they had no choice. Hopefully this makes sense, and I completely understand your take.
Yeah well they were only given 8 episodes which is below average for most cartoons. I can't really hate them for that. It's something that hopefully is fixed with the next season.
@@maltemejlstrup4746 to be fair, Helluva Boss (the YT spin-off) also has both seasons ending with the 8th episode. Not sure what to make of that, but it makes me wonder if there were any influences by A24/Bezos Prime on Helluva Boss as well or if it's just a coincidence.
COnsidering they did get renewed for a 2nd season pretty easily they could have easily adjusted the writing so that everything we got could be spread out for 2 seasons and give characters the time for development they desperately needed. @@maltemejlstrup4746
COnsidering they got a 2nd season pretty easily, they could have adjusted things to spread all this out for 2 seasons and used the time to help establish the characters better.@@maltemejlstrup4746
so as a SA victim myself, i really didnt care going into it but hearing the implications actively did something to my brain. watching it made it worse too, especially without a single warning. i hadnt really processed any of what i went through which tbf is neither the show nor my fault. obviously i cant speak for all SA victims but it made me start thinking about it extremely excessively. a lot of viv’s fans arent making it any better and seeing is extremely romanticized makes me feel violently ill.
As an SA victim, I feel like “Loser baby” is …a little inappropriate in context?? Like I get it, the song is basically just “same bro” manifested as a song, but saying that to a sex worker who is literally 🍇’d and owned by a sex trafficker is..uh. not really a great way of comfort?.. I understand that Husk is trying to relate to Angel by comparing their situations together, but their situations are pretty different and… not really comparable?? Husk is like, owned by Alastor, and the only moment of Alastor actually threatening Husk that I remember is when Husk crossed a line of mentioning how Alastor is also owned by someone else, other than that, he seems to be chill most of the time While Angel Dust is owned by Valentino, gets abused, 🍇’d, gang 🍇’d in alot of horrible ways ( “You know, Val… he’s in this waterboarding shit now- It’s. It’s a kink.” - Angel) for a long period of time, 16 hours straight (I hope I heard what Angel said at the start of the angel court ep right) “I sold, my soul.. to a psychopathic freak.” (Btw just say 🍇ist dude it’s not that hard) “Haha, and you think that makes you uniquee???? Get out of here man.” ?????????????
Well the similarity is pretty much “we are both trapped by people who just use us” So while in gravity I agree it’s not the most comparable. In terms of their situation I’d say it works well enough. Just because we see alastor be chill does not mean he hasn’t abused husker a fair bit. He 1 is at a hotel having to maintain a somewhat nice demeanor due to Charlie 2 alastor as a whole might be the most conventionally “evil” character we have in hazbin hotel. I think another unintended side effect is people going through SA are always gonna give that situation more gravity than someone who doesn’t. So having a pivotal character moment be a connection with someone who at best probably only has it just as bad could seem off. But surprisingly it seems from all the SA’s victim talking in the comments it’s kind of a mixed bag with most people enjoying husker’s number. Which I think may be because if in the situation where husker is just completely left field for using the lyrics he does, that’s realistic, it’s often those with good intentions that can’t convey it the best you turn to (not to say everyone does that, or that’s what people do during SA, I’ll never have the experience to know what it’s like an don’t want to downplay it, just convey my thoughts) because them kinda fumbling shows you they care enough to try.
Side note the universally agreed on thing is how cringey certain parts of angel’s musical number is. Which I find kinda funny because in this moment people (even people who don’t entirely like the show) actually find interesting is one of the moment the lyrics in the music are kinda mid. Whereas for some people most of the show is the other way around.
I'm really thankful for you taking your time and actually speaking to a variety of victims and taking their views into consideration, i'm one myself and i cant even count the amount of times ive seen people on twitter being awful and completely disregarding how we feel about the Poison thing. I'm also thankful for you understanding that everyone reacts and deals with their trauma differently, some survivors are very sex-repulsed while others may be closer to hypersexual and in the end is kind of a huge spectrum, and all of these individuals deserve equal respect. Coping mechanisms aren't always beautiful and "pitiful" and many people (again, mostly on twitter) dont seem interested in recognizing that Personally, i feel like the show handles it "okay-ish" the biggest issue really is the absolute jumpscare of a tone shift the series has compared to the other episodes, i completely understand why the music number being a flashy pop song can be seem as distasteful to so many people, even if character-wise it makes a lot of sense, its the mask hes putting in in order to deal with everything and its completely valid HOWEVER i think you described it perfectly with the word "yassified". Its treated much more like an aesthetic itself than an actual attempt of showing how one might view and deal with their abuse. Its kinda absurd how the show just kind of just "goes back to normal" after that ONE episode tho, thats the thing that bothers me the most, as well as what you mentioned of Angel Dust being only a comedic relief before that.
@@dumbsville Buddy it’s downright wrong of you to call the Angel Dust Scene bad. I’ve seen several actual SA Victims who liked it. They have been through something neither of us can imagine and you have no right to say anything about it. SA victims have said positive AND negative things about it and BOTH are right. It makes sense they would have lots of emotional responses to it. But sorry, not all of them were negative.
@@xvx_k1r1t0_xvxkillme7 He didn't say it was bad either, he even said some people he reached out to say they appreciated the scene while others did not.
@@xvx_k1r1t0_xvxkillme7 He didn't say it was bad either, he even said some people he reached out to say they appreciated the scene while others did not.
Bro, the Death Stranding references! I just started playing it this week! Also, as an artist, I loathe the character designs. There are so many bow ties and suits and fluffy hair. Also, the designs don't have clear character motifs and you already have to be a Vivziepop fan and have to have seen her livestreams to understand her characters and lore. Like, according to the livestreams and fan wiki (I can't make myself read/watch them); Alastor is supposed to be Creole, from the 1930s, and is supposed to be a deer. Husk is supposed to be a gambling addict from the 1970s, and Angel dust is supposed to be a spider from the 1940s?!?! I have to understand what a character is supposed to be just from looking at them. To reference Death Stranding, I can understand Sam as a character just from looking at him. He's packed up for any situation, he is tired of the world (eye bags and tired expression), and he doesn't connect to others well except for a few (uncut hair, necklace from Amile).
I dunno, Alastor clearly has deer motif with his ears and antlers that at times get more evident when he gets all spooky and distorted and his gloves or hands resemble hooves too, and so you can tell there's a deer motif mixed with early 20th radio speaker vibes with his spiffy outfit radio gimmick, and demeanor. Angel dust has multiple arms and can pop up to 6 which makes for a full spider amount of limbs, but he's nit meant to literally BE a spider just like how Alastor isn't a deer their designs are just inspired by the imagery to reflect something about their personality and whatnot, like Alastor basically being a wendigo, or Angel Dust being hyper sexual mobster with his slutty mob outfits and heart motifs on his body, and the tommy guns he uses to fight which are spider web themed, and Husk's body is outright covered in card symbols with his general color scheme also playing into the gambling motif, and him only wearing suspenders and a hat gives off a bum look which is made sense of as you watch. These are a lot of things to catch but even if you don't look for them they still subconcipusly give you a basic gist of what the characters are about while showcasing extravagant eye catching flair. Also i find criticizing her for recurring design quirks pretty weak too, sure it can be overused but every artist has some kind of through line of recurring design elements, especially if they design all the characters, Death Stranding for example fucks a lot with Sci fi elements mixed with modern day normal fashion just as much as Metal Gear did with many characters also wearing suits and such. Hazbin's hell is treated like a more fantastical version of basically "the shitty part of the big city" so it makes sense to designs would be more modernish though some are more old fashioned than others to reflect the diversity in sinners who died throughout various centuries, and there's plenty of characters that have no fancy jackets or fluffy hair so to claim it's too homogeneous isn't accurate. I'm not against criticizing her, but I feel you didn't make good points here, the artistic department is one of the few elements that uncompromisingly knock it out of the park, it might not be your cup of tea but Viv does undeniably have a knack for character designs.
Lol you hate Hazbin Hotel but like pretentious shit like death stranding?! Jesus I’ve never seen a less subtle, more confusing, own-farts-sniffing, boring game in my entire life!!
@@user-x7dc2pq7nI disagree because while these "professional" companies can put out a few gems, they usually end up ruining it with like 20 pieces of slop made for a quick buck. At least with the indie projects you can see a genuine passion in them, even if they are a bit misguided. I'd rather have something that's misguided with passion over something that's just made to make a quick buck. Anyways, that's just what I think and as long as you respond respectfully I won't have a problem.
@@uzi_the_drone Well yeah, bad shows made by professionals are worse than bad shows made by some guy on the internet. I do agree with that but that doesn't really say anything about the quality of the best thing they can both produce. Good cartoons you'd see on TV had both passion and competence, meanwhile I've yet to see one of the best indie projects not have atleast 4 glaringly obvious flaws on most aspects. (and i'd happily retract my statement if I do)
thank you for being one of the only creators I've seen actually critiquing and analyzing this show (unlike SOME creators just ignoring the critics...). The show being rushed as hell, along the plot being all over the place, combined with Viv's lack of critical thinking when it comes to her social media proves to me that she does not know what the fuck she's doing when it comes to being a professional creator. Getting involved in your own fandom, becoming worked up over criticism and even reacting to light jokes made about your art is not it, and it's certainly not a good example to set for possibly young creators who hear about your chronically online Twitter shenanigans.
@@Noelle_Holiday Yeah but then i'd have to witness revengence difficulty a third time and i don't think i have the courage for that, senator armstrongs two shots still give me ptsd
Highlights: 6:29 Screaming 9:54 Lore that looked more unique 10 Years ago in a Kids ago. 11:29 Vivzie Pacing 12:36 When good Ideas are used not good 15:47 ...Okay? 27:29 To be continued?
@@xvx_k1r1t0_xvxkillme7 Umm.. Just because I like it doesn’t mean I can’t make fun of it or laugh at the flaws of the show with Dumbsville. There is still such a thing as being a fan of something yet also criticizing it
This is such a Tumblr show. "Yassified" is such a good word to describe it. You know the types of people who play games like The Coffin of Andy and Leyley are just schizoposting about this show because it's their version of Patrick Bateman "literally me" content. Also, the creators seem to be those types of artists who draw men just like women with short hair and just dressing them into suits... And kudos for Dumbsville for handling the subject of SA arguably better than the show did. I find how it depicted it as... I dunno, it just gave me vibes of them either doing it because it was some sort of an "obligation" (le woman show with le woman characters) or even worse: That they found it "titillating"... Maybe it's the "hypersexualization" of the show, with the bad sex and vagina jokes making the entire humour of the show come out as tasteless and... Icky. It makes me question if they had the purest intentions... I also agree it's VERY questionable that they show SA happen in the show, when it's very clear most of the diehard fans of the show are teenagers...
How is it a "tumblr" show? Yassified doesn`t make sense either, the only character even close to that is Angel lmao. What people are you talking about exactly? People I see that are fans of it are mostly sane. Eh....no, Adam for example looks very different then Lute. I don`t see how this fucking meme filled review handles it better then the show did. What obligation? This was SA of a male character. Titiliating? So you can`t even think of the possibly that they just genuinely wanted to tackle this? Just because it is sexualized as a show doesn`t mean their intentions aren`t pure when this was treated seriously. Bruh....the episode was very clearly rated 18+ and despite what Twitter said had a trigger warning too, that else did it have to do? The only time it handled SA badly was the one joke with Pentious but while that was in poor taste it doesn`t overwrite the bigger effort they did with episode 4 and with Angel.
If you haven't already I would recommend watching Angeldust's other music video "Addicted" I feel like the topic and tone of SA was done way better in that song in comparison to Poison (minus the part when he looks in the mirror), the ending to that song specifically is important idk why she put it after the credits like some kind of "secret scene"
Weirdest thing is I genuinely do not care about the main cast at ALL. I only like Adam, vox and lucifer. I love the music, hate the pacing, don’t find many of the jokes funny, but I think the show is cool and I find it inspiring, how it went from a small indie project to a full on show. I hate most of the fandom though. But hell yes I’m excited for season two. 7.8/10 basically just an 8.
@@pjdixon6199 popularity doesn’t really correlate to quality. We’re also entering a indie animation renaissance, I’m excited to see what the future holds.
Every Hazbin joke that enters my awareness makes me shrivel up inside. I can't stand it. The unfunniest shit on the planet to me. My sense of humor can be very gallows. Absurd escalation of violence can make me laugh. And this is a show about Hell. The opportunity for that is... right there.... God, this hurts.
@@Noelle_Holiday I actually went to see that one in theaters just on a whim because I was bored and there was nothing else to do. It was a good way to kill an afternoon, but I just couldn't sit through it on a re-watch I don't know how I did it the first time.
I don't know, I really liked it when I watched it not too long ago, but that's likely due to the fact I have watched the entirety of helluva boss so the edgy jokes and swearing were just normal to me. I also just appreciated the world getting fleshed out more, even if it went too fast. Helluva boss does this alot better as it isn't a "one and done" kind of story, as it's premise can be continued on for a long time, giving the show more time to actually flesh out its characters more and make a better show overall. The only real gripe I had with Hazbin Hotel was the sheer number of musical numbers. I'm pretty sure there were at least two in every episode, and they were all just normal dialogue, but the characters sing it? Why? Regardless, the show seems to rely on you already being invested in the world from helluva boss for most of its humor and story, which really hurts the experience for new watchers. Tl;dr: Good for long-time watchers, bad for newcomers
I feel as much disappointment people do for Hazbin for Helluva Boss. It's early episodes establish it's "demonic hitman on humans business" premise and ideas pretty well, but leave them behind for exploring the relationships all the characters have with each other. It's to a point where relationships progress or improve, but the characters don't actually grow, because the main cast moving forward with their premise. Character relationships are so focused and numerous in Helluva Boss. To a point that the writers ignore or forget to tie the character driven premise of a freelance business to its central characters, because resolving broken traumatic relationships outside of any relevant plot development is a "great" idea. And like usual, the the resolutions to each relationship conflict is rushed and undeserved. It's to the point that there are less episodes about the hitman business, which had just introduced the stakes of being discovered by the human government. Which is super interesting! But now it's all about backstories and introducing broken relationships.
As an SA survivor, which was not public knowledge until now, so ha, it means a lot to me for you to talk so sensitively about this and present your viewpoint on how poorly it's handled here. I didn't watch episode four (I watched episode one and found it so unfunny I quit) but I'm a huge SH2 fan and loved that you brought up how Angela is depicted. Everything about that is absolutely well-done, and so is your discussion of the topic. Cheers and know you've done well by at least one of the normal humans you respectfully talk about.
When the name of the show is a location, and the location barely relevant, something is really wrong. Halo: location is a type of artificial ring shaped planet. Whole lore of the series revolves around it, good! Silent Hill: the town in which every silent hill games takes place, good! Hazbin Hotel: a hotel which is barely relevant to the plot, the fuck?
I watched the pilot and got a feel for the tone of the show, and while I've not seen the actual show, the SA scene here feels like that one episode of Family Guy with Quagmire and his sister's abusive boyfriend. It's a really jarring shift from goofy antics to actually harding hitting shit, and I'm not sure if it really fits
Really interesting how VivziePop will go out of her way to mock furries who like her characters in the 3rd episode of Helluvaboss, while she’s admitted to breaking down crying over words said about her online. Another interesting thing is that one episode of Helluvaboss is just dedicated to mocking LA as a horrible City, literally called Hell on Earth by the characters, while Seth Rogan, someone who Vivzie has described as a huge inspiration, loves LA and goes out of his way to defend it on Twitter. …does none of this seem hypocritical or uncalled for to Vivzie?
Because despite having pretty furry ocs she never actually declared to be apart of the fandom moreso have an actual furrsona or be humbled enough or cringe and let loose enough to actually admit that she is a furry Secretly and would rather take the internet bonus points making fun at the expense of furries *while she actively profits and literally steals designs from furries within her fanbase* It's pretty fucked up to listen to pool interviews with her and realize she is not a very goal oriented moreso able to handle the capability of being in industry let alone her own company????? 😅🎉
Helluva Boss has a lot of the same problems as Hazbin Hotel though, mainly when it comes to humor, pacing and lack of focus in the plot. I do agree it's better tho, especially the first season. Season Two feels just as messy as Hazbin's first season, if not a tad worse: breakneck pacing with no apparent build up over anything, and no real character development. I feel like Season One did these last two things better, and you can tell the difference between seasons.
great video. you really hit the nail on the head as to why the show just isn't good. the fact that viv was arguing on threads with SA survivors WHILE SHE WAS ON VACATION IN VEGAS. chronically online lmao. i appreciate what you had to say about ep4 and you handled it with tact, unlike others. i wish you delved more into the characters and your thoughts on them bc it would have been hilarious
