Finnick & Tigris's BIG Secret | Hunger Games Film Theory

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Today Ben dives into the chaotic world of Panem to reveal WHY Tigris betrayed her cousin: Coriolanus Snow! How did such great friends turn on each other and what does it have to do with Finnick Odair?!
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Edited by :: Riley Murtagh
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3 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 535

@SuperCarlinBrothers Год назад

Finnick FOR LIFE!

@EnderDragon5655 Год назад

I always thought he was a really cool guy

@riley4251 Год назад

Keep making hunger games content plzzzzzzzzz

@tribute_eagle6176 Год назад

I would not be surprised if he had some royal blood in him 😂😂😂

@HeatherNickless-vt8zr Год назад

Its Coriolanus with a hard "A" not a long "E" kind of like the word "Land" but minus the letter "D"

@TVNerd3 Год назад

Finnick is so awesome!! HE RULESSSS!! ❤❤❤

@VictoriaJRFreitas 10 месяцев назад

I never read the book, but at the end of the movie, when Tigris says Coriolanus was looking just like his father, Crassus, I understood as her realizing that he wasn’t the good cousin she had worked so hard to protect and care for anymore.

@TheBizzle1984 10 месяцев назад

Exactly what I was thinking, especially since it seems like a callback to when earlier she had talked about how his father's eyes were full of hatred.

@jamiegdubois 10 месяцев назад

I agree. The way she delivered the line, it did not sound like a compliment (although Snow may have taken it as one knowing his mindset). She sounded very disappointed.

@justmeok2 10 месяцев назад

I thought it was obvious, he looks like his dad. She said his dad had dark eyes

@lenakataeva7525 10 месяцев назад

@@justmeok2she didn't mean appearance, she was talking about attitude and inner self. In the end of the movie she realised that Coriolanus has the same dark and power hungry mindset as his father

@loganso6550 10 месяцев назад

@@justmeok2 nah, she said her dad's eyes was full of hate.

@christiandouglass2225 Год назад

I’d honestly like to see a sequel to a Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes to see Snow and Tigris’s falling out and Snow’s political career

@marionbaggins Год назад

Same

@scaper8 Год назад

Same, but I don't want the world too bogged down with stories focusing only on a handful of people (I'm looking at you _Star Wars_ franchise). The four current books are good enough that I think Collins can pull it off, but just one more book, really. I think your idea of Coriolanus's rise to power would work. Tigris becoming disillusioned with her cousin would certainly be a good secondary plot, but I don't necessarily feel that the actual falling out needs to be spelled out, just foreshadowed.

@WendyDahling3 Год назад

There’s definitely room for 1 or 2 books before The Hunger Games.

@christiandouglass2225 Год назад

@@WendyDahling3 agree, I’d like see them revolve around Snows rise to power

@rainstorm571 11 месяцев назад

@@WendyDahling3or maybe even more from different characters

@cloakalley5921 Год назад

My theory: She went to far with the transformation to make herself LESS appealing/attractive so as to never have to worry about being used in that manner again.

@sarisrq06 Год назад

I was thinking the same! A way of protecting herself

@biteme109 Год назад

This is what I was thinking too

@Szallejh Год назад

Same! It would make total sense if you ask me, to distance herself from the people who once found her admirable. Kind of building a wall high and sttrong enough to protect herself

@MythStarFire Год назад

But sadly as twisted as the Capital was there would be those who would have gone after her because of the transformation.

@SingingSealRiana Год назад

Quite obviously, makes the most sense

@82krissyk 10 месяцев назад

I think we also have to remember that Tigris knew what Lucy Grey means to Snow. So when she is looking at Katniss she is seeing Lucy Grey just like Snow. So she is intrigued and I think entertained that a girl from 12, a girl victor from 12 would be the death of him.

@devonstallworth6351 9 месяцев назад

How would she know about Lucy Grey because I doubt he came back talking about her. Plus the fact this is when their relationship started to sour as she seen he has become his father.

@TheGabyFe 4 месяца назад

@@devonstallworth6351i think Tigris is introspective enough to realize or assume why Lucy Grey would leave Snow. And have grown to see the change in Snow

@ariadne_off 10 месяцев назад

You said Tigris doesn’t understand the truth about snow in the ballad of songbird and snakes but I think at the moment she says “you look just like your father” is when she understands he’s gone on the wrong path and he understands she will not support him in everything he does.

@adrianaavila8853 10 месяцев назад

Yup that last chilling line of hers from the prequel. Epic!

@iontalk-pj7ro 10 месяцев назад

She knew, the whole vibe of snow changed throughout the movie and Tigris noticed. She noticed the change and it only projected her father.

@iontalk-pj7ro 10 месяцев назад

His father *

@seyvnpentagrim 10 месяцев назад

when shes refering to his father she mentions mainly anger that led to his demise. I think she understands then that he is on the same path but had no way of knowing how bad is it really gonna be. She wasnt aware that Coryo's father was the one who enablied the games in the first place (unless Coryo tells her that later)

@Procrastination21345 10 месяцев назад

Especially since she says Coriolanus instead of Corio that speaks volumes

@tasmiatahia_write_dream_change Год назад

This theory is really well reasoned and I'm happy to know that poor Finnick's terrible life as a young victor actually played a key role in sowing the earliest seeds of detractions from Snow. Finnick was one of my favourite characters from the original trilogy. It pained me so much to think about the horrific life lived and when he finally found happiness, his life so cruelly cut short. The actor in the film really managed to capture the anguish and hurt that book Finnick experienced.

@yureiNekoX 8 месяцев назад

if its any consolation, that is the one thing Suzanne Collins regrets. in interviews she has said she regrets killing him.

@CassieTranthesuperfitbabe 3 месяца назад

@@yureiNekoX True, plus her fanbase will collectively forgive her if she writes an alternative ending where he is happily spending time with his wife and children post-Hunger Games

@xen4787 11 месяцев назад

I think Tigris told finnick all the “secrets” he knows. He says the capitol citizens who would buy him would pay in secrets but i think tigris might have told him a lot of it. Potentially bought him herself to protect him and snow found out- realising that she sympathised and kicked her out.

@showtelll 10 месяцев назад

This is genius!

@minaunknownwolfsbane 10 месяцев назад

Agreed 😢

@temujinbear911 10 месяцев назад

Yeah this is a better theory 👍🏼

@jillianedouglas730 9 месяцев назад

That tracks with what I was wondering....is it possible snow mutilated tigress to the point she was naturally kicked out. We know they forced surgeries on tributes so I wonder if snow did so she would become unrecognizable as part of his family. S

@Songbird96000 3 месяца назад

@@jillianedouglas730that’s a good theory, but if it was forced on her I don’t think she would lean into it that much, with the fluffy cat slippers

@tasmiatahia_write_dream_change Год назад

I was listening to the audiobook of Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, and when Tigris's name came up early in the story, I gasped so hard. It gave me so much satisfaction to know that part of Snow's downfall was orchestrated by his cousin, who seems to be one of the only people who ever loved him selflessly. The casual mention of selling herself horrified me at the time, but to see it in this light, it makes sense that it was that trauma paired with watching tributes face the same fate that broke Tigris.

@chellerounds7608 9 месяцев назад

This makes me love this character that much more!!! The weight of the burden all she had to bear makes my heart hurt!!

@mistyb1183 Год назад

I think President Snow found out that Tigres sympathized with a Finnick’s, and so he kicked her out of The Hunger Games because he didn’t want her to sympathize with the tributes like he sympathized with Lucy Gray and by her sympathizing, he might’ve figured out what she had to do all those years ago and hated her for it

@blueblossom3384 10 месяцев назад

Finnick's siguation after the hunger games could have been a punishment as well.

@rissaallen6298 Год назад

Super Carlin Brothers are in their Hunger Games era and I’m HERE FOR IT 👏

@michaeljbuckley Год назад

Agree SCB are the best creating theories and walking through general ideas.

@megellen5357 Год назад

Definitely! (Still waiting for the PJO era)

@clemz9013 Год назад

Facts, me too 😊

@stephenadams8712 Год назад

If they are adding hunger games to list of fandom store they should make a candle called catching fire

@rissaallen6298 Год назад

@@megellen5357 OH. MY GOODNESS. Had not even considered this. Don't know if I could handle that. Wow. Yes, please. Petition to make that happen.

@saanvitammana271 Год назад

The timing for these hunger games theories is perfect with the new movie coming. It would have been so nice if Finnick could have survived to see Tigris.

@AmyHoldaway27 Год назад

Omg nooo it slipped my mind for a minute that Finnick died 😭😭😭😭 this was a sad reminder lol

@saanvitammana271 Год назад

@@AmyHoldaway27 😢

@LoRosa0224 8 месяцев назад

Didn't he die literally right before they got to her shop??😭

@SSDarshkin 5 месяцев назад

@@LoRosa0224yea 💔

@cceats1744 4 месяца назад

Is it really Tigris tho, I mean it never says that

@lucypreece7581 Год назад

Didn't the Capitol also try and "buy" Johanna as well? I am not fully sure of which games Johanna competed in and won but ifbit was around a similar time to Finnick then maybe Tigres knew about Johanna as well. And like Finnicks girlfriend Annie was also a victor and ended up with severe mental health issues. It is not hard to see all the reasons why Tigres would switch sides.

@AshR24 Год назад

Not even buy, their loved ones are threatened. Snow doesn’t get johanna because there is nobody left she loves but Finnick still had Annie. Haymitch’s family also died super soon after he won and I imagine it was because he refused to comply with Snow and allow himself to be traded. Finnick found a way to profit from his exploitation by trading in secrets.

@danielasarmiento30 Год назад

Yes! Johanna refused and as punishment they killed all her family. If Tigris found out about that, it would certailnly leave her with a sour taste

@madisonhuttman467 Год назад

@@AshR24it’s said that the reason why his family and his girlfriend was killed in the books is because he managed to outsmart the capitol by using the force field to kill his fellow tributes

@saxs3351 11 месяцев назад

She won the 71st Hunger Games but you're right. We see that the capital has been going after the victors since at least the 50th Hunger Games. It's also implied that they try to 'buy' Cashmere as well.

@Marylsa 9 месяцев назад

I think every handsome or pretty victor was being used for this.

@tinymeanginger6293 Год назад

I want a book on Tigris. I want it to be from her POV as the games are changing due to Snow and maybe even the year she mentored and decided she was done. I always thought Tigris was a cool character and was happy she was put in the 3rd book and then even happier she returned for the 4th with that plot twist 😏

@zedi528 9 месяцев назад

The first g

@diabolicallink Год назад

17:35 I think it was more than enabling, I think he was the one doing the selling. Finnic was forced to do it, I feel like it was snow who forced him, not just allowed it

@skelemanbrie Год назад

That’s the only way I can view it, too. He was powerful enough to force people to commit suicide. He could absolutely have forced them into prostitution

@allisonhoff5805 Год назад

He was definitely behind it because if they didn't comply (like Johanna) he had their loved ones killed. Random citizens couldn't do that.

@DoesItMatter141 Год назад

Didn't Snow have Johanna Mason's family killed when she refused to be sold?

@enerioffutt1881 Год назад

Finnick does mention at one point that if you didn't do what Snow wanted, he'd kill a member of your family or someone you cared about.. As Johanna says in the Quarter Qwell, "I'm not like you. I don't have anyone left I care about."

@laurencazeneuve6136 11 месяцев назад

@@skelemanbriebut to what end

@neen2660 Год назад

Since I’ve read bosbs I’ve had the understanding snow cannot and will not let any tributes get away with what he and his family could not. Tigres had to resort so such things, so did they.

@prestigemultimediagroup6436 Год назад

Songbird is one word... ya dont need to include the b

@jesnerdingout Год назад

I think Coriolanus was not necessarily a "bad" person until the events at the end of the book transpire on TOP of all that childhood trauma and upbringing in the way - so Tigris will not know him as evil until he grows into the person he becomes and she realizes he is not the cousin she remembers

@StarryEyed0590 Год назад

Personally, I think he was a bad person from before the beginning of TBoSaS, but he was more of a bad person in the way that, say, Effie Trinket or Casear Flickerman in The Hunger Games (the first book, not the whole series, necessarily) - a product of a messed up society and a willing cog in a horrendous machine. Like Effie through the series, he goes through experiences that reveal how messed up his society really is and present him with a series of choices about whether he will contribute to and benefit from this society or turn against it because of its evil. He makes the opposite choices from Effie.

@Lo0serx3 Год назад

@@StarryEyed0590more than that, he's bad in a narcissistic way. he only really cares about himself, what will make look good. even after it turns out the jabberjay confession got Sejanus killed, he didn't have remorse for that. he killed Mayfair so she wouldn't rat *him* out for being there.

@StarryEyed0590 Год назад

@@Lo0serx3 Yes, exactly. First, he makes choices to do decent things that benefit him. Then, he declines to makes choices to do decent things that DON'T benefit him. Finally, he makes choices to do evil things that benefit him. It's all about him. He was never a decent person. He only occasionally found it expedient to act like one.

@blueblossom3384 10 месяцев назад

He may not have done anything bad, but I don't think he was good. If you look for it you can see how twisted his mind is. Tigris never believed in what the hunger games was doing, but Snow believed it was necessary. Thats what pushed his loved ones away.

@kathrynbaker7278 10 месяцев назад

Lots of people experience severe trauma and do not choose to kill people because it’s expedient. He may have been standing on a precipice at the beginning of the prequel, but he made choices. He was no longer a child or a victim. He did not kill as a form of actual self-defense, but to preserve his positions. He chose to be a bad person. Life is full of choices.

@eris6514 10 месяцев назад

I would just like to add that while Tigris generally looked at Snow positively, I think that Tigris more so already saw the corruption lurking inside Snow way earlier than Finnick's victory. Tigris and Snow would occasionally bond over their lost relatives, specifically, Snow's father. To which Tigris saw Snow as a little boy who desperately wants to follow his Father's likeness. Tigris would then proceed to warn Snow of his desperate attempts of being just like his father. That for her, his father might be dignified, smart, and revered but whenever she looks in his eyes, all she sees is anger. During the ballads of Songbirds and Snakes, Tigris was the main witness to Snow's descent into evil, how Snow's exposure to the real world corrupted him. In the last part of the movie, Tigris who was oftentimes running towards Snow to give him support was seen faraway behind the table, cold and distant. It was far from the close and intimate moments previously where Snow's failures and successes where celebrated and grieved together with Tigris. When Snow asked her "How do I look?" Tigris would then respond "You look just like your father" implying that Snow achieved what he so desperately wanted to be. I believe that as years went by and as Snow grew to have more authority, the more they grew apart from each other. Until, Tigris who at the start wanted to make sure that Snow does not stray off the wrong path, just now wants to see his destruction. That maybe, its the most merciful way to save Snow.

@Kilamwatkins Год назад

I love in Ballad Tigris references to Cena. Which leads me to believe he was once Tigris apprentice

@StarryEyed0590 Год назад

Which would then further the idea that Tigris and Cinna were both part of the underground Capitol resistance movement

@SilverSugarwings 10 месяцев назад

When did she refer to him?

@erinw1256 Год назад

Alternative theory. The Snow's had the help of the Plinth's at the end of Songbirds and Snakes. Maybe they somehow helped Tigris to get the stylist job for the Hunger Games. Or at the very least, got her a better job in the field that helped pave the way to that job. Also, I could totally see Tigris doing that job because she saw it as a way to help the tributes in some way. And she knew that Coriolanus had helped the tributes with some of the things he suggested and did when he was working on the games during the 10th Hunger Games. So between her gaining fame from the games and the help from the Plinth's, Coriolanus was able to gain power. And Tigris, still believing Coriolanus was a good person, thought he would slowly make the games better. And in her mind, that probably meant trying to dismantle them. But instead, she realized how he treated the victors, and left the games. Maybe even somehow finding out about all the other things he did to gain power, and realizing how he's not the person she thought he was.

@auki_8808 10 месяцев назад

Oioo is😊

@ClaireDonovan-q5p 10 месяцев назад

I remember from the film ( but not the book) of Mockingjay that Finnick is extremely clear about how he was offered round the President’s allies as ‘thanks’ for supporting him. Meaning top people in the Capitol and Districts would offer intel and so forth to Snow in return for time with their favourite victor. Unlike the others, Finnick actively engaged with these people and got them to tell him what secrets they’d traded him for. I also think this is why Snow is so obsessed with Katniss and Peeta showing they are in love - he can’t sell either of them to his allies on the tour. I think that train on the tour contains a carriage which in previous years was used to put together the victor after their abuse in each District

@marcyc1695 7 месяцев назад

Can you explain the part about the train?? I couldnt understand

@michaelodonnell824 Год назад

The only problem with this theory is that when Finnick reveals the truth about how he was bought and sold, Katniss turned to Haymitch and aske him, "Is that what happened to you?" Haymitch reveals that because of how he won the Hunger Games, Snow had his mother, brother and sweetheart killed within the year. "I became the warning to Enobaria and Finnich" he says. Haymitch wasn't the only of even the first Victor abused by Snow, so why did it take till Finnick for Tigris to discover what Snow was?

@samantharawson8996 Год назад

I suppose a large part would depend on who was "her" tribute - because she'd only really see in detail what happens to the tribute SHE has. Which gives her a 1/24 chance of seeing this (higher in all likelyhood, as she probably got "better" districts), but realistically, that means "her" tribute probably only won 4 or 5 times MAX. Many of the career districts were probably brought up to understand this, and so might not have had as big objections to it. And most were probably not as wanted as Finnick. So until she gets Finnick she doesn't really see that it's happening, because she wants to believe that her cousin is mostly nice.

@alexiswelsh5821 Год назад

@@samantharawson8996 Snow could have made sure Tigris either didn’t know, or just played it off as “accidents”. Giving her as much denial as possible until she was confronted with the truth.

@Wandervenn Год назад

I dont think that's an issue. She may not have been the stylist to a winner or privvy to what happened until someone like Finnick came along. She may have even kept her distance to her tribute, but someone like Finnick is charming. I dont think he'd allow anyone to ignore him. Or, maybe she does know and it takes a while to finally break her. Each year she turns herself more amd more into something inhuman.

@SingingSealRiana Год назад

Last nail in the coffin and that was way more personal to her... With haymitchs family, it was ambiguous, he knows what happened, the Victor's close to him do... But no one else really knows....

@diaryofahotchinesetwink 10 месяцев назад

I don’t think Haymitch was bought and sold though. Weren’t his family killed because of the way he manipulated the forcefield into a weapon during his own games and thus winning? Snow didn’t like that and killed his family. But I don’t think that Haymitch himself at any point was sold but I could be wrong.

@callistamccracken3744 Год назад

This is a great theory. I remember when reading songbirds and snakes I had to literally put it down and walk away for a minute when Tigris was revealed to be not only his cousin but close friend as well. Like it was mind blowing and then trying to understand why she turned on him was the fuel for many of my own theories. Never put together the idea that she would be angry that he exploits others the way she herself had to be exploited.

@l.c.7955 7 месяцев назад

We already knew that. It was not a revelation.

@jamieadams4730 10 месяцев назад

In the movie, Tigris recognized and acknowledged who Snow was at the end when she told him he looked exactly like his father.

@piratemann5098 Год назад

Here’s hoping that the next trivia night will have Hunger Games questions

@nicoleb581 Год назад

You did an amazing job talking about this tactfully. In covering Disney, superheroes, and wizards, I'm sure there's part of your fan base that's too young for this topic. You spoke about it in a way that gets the main theme across for the essay, but doesn't explicitly stray into the nitty gritty of what Fennick and Tigris were doing if you didn't know what they were doing, ya know? I wanted to applaud you for the verbal gymnastics. It was well done.

@dovshiff1939 11 месяцев назад

You forgot that katniss and peta did watch old games to learn about their ennemys in the second book. So one of the oldest games she can recall would be mags'

@juliecampbell860 Год назад

I don't know that it matters who Tigris was a stylist for, because so many victors were treated poorly after they won - Haymitch being a known example that Tigris would have seen before she quit. Plus add to that fact that Tigris would have had at least one of her tributes killed in the games unless she was extremely lucky and managed to be assigned/pick the winning tribute each year. Maybe Finnick's treatment was the final straw, but I suspect that Tigris would have started becoming disillusioned and uncomfortable with the whole Hunger Games before that happened.

@kriscordero8033 10 месяцев назад

There are 2 key moments with Snow and Tigris, that let us know she recognized the star of Snow's falling into evil. She tells Snow about he is more like his mother and how his father's eyes used to look, full of hate. At the very end Tigris called him Coriolanus instead of Coryo and told him he looked like his father. I think, though her path to the "dark side" is not shown in the movie nor the book, she saw Snow's change and probably just got involved in the Hunger Games out of fear of Snow's new evil nature.

@deborahcooke4815 11 месяцев назад

After reading the book my take was that Snow and Lucy Grey were the paternal grandparents of Katniss Everdeen. It’s highly unlikely that Lucy Grey could have come back to district 12 to stay, but she was more than capable of a temporary visit to ‘doorstep’ her baby with the Everdeen family. Everything we know about him (Katniss dad) points to his being different to other people from the miners background. Not just the singing that stopped the birds, but all his behaviour. His open way of showing his love for his wife, of bringing gifts to her. His open love for Katniss herself. This was a patriarchal district with ‘girly’ girls yet he includes Katniss in his own pursuits of hunting and foraging. This is not the picture we get of the other men from the miners part of 12. Even Gayle. A side thought here - this is why Katniss falls in love with Peeta, he is actually just like her dad in his way of being openly romantic. It could also explain how Snow recognised the threat Katniss posed without consciously knowing why. After all, Lucy Grey was the only other person to get the better of Coriolanus Snow. More by luck than judgement he wasn’t entirely defeated by her. After that he had everything his own way till Katniss pulled the berry stunt at the end of her first games.

@boulderboy2001 11 месяцев назад

He posted another theory about Katniss and Lucy being related, and though it is possible she snuck back in to 12 to drop a baby on a door step she has a cousin who also has similarities to Katniss. I like the theory that Lucy’s cousin is the mother of Katniss’ dad, but also find Lucy and Snow having a secret child that was probably dropped off with her cousin who married a Mr. Everdeen very intriguing.

@christina4012 10 месяцев назад

I think her grandmother was Maude Ivory

@lisar655 10 месяцев назад

Lucy Gray is Maude Ivory’s cousin. Katniss is maude’s grandchild

@fielding6096 10 месяцев назад

It's a plausible theory

@EtanChamare Год назад

I love how much you're covering the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. It's my favorite book and I just love hearing people talk about it.

@crazyalaskans5 Год назад

So my question is how did the underground get started? Did Tigris start it then? Did she recruit Plutarch? Did she help recruit the other victors in the 2nd book? Or when she left the games was she recruited by an underground that had already been formed? I really think another book is going to have to answer this question.

@StarryEyed0590 Год назад

Maybe a Haymitch era book? Because you know a HG book is going to have to have SOME version of the Hunger Games happening.

@FairbrookWingates 11 месяцев назад

@@StarryEyed0590 I think a lot of us would eagerly read a book centered around Haymitch's time in the arena and after, ending, in my ideal, with a bit of his perspective of first taking on K & P.

@Taupod Год назад

I think that Lucy Gray Hung herself in the hanging tree and expected Snow to join her. When Corolianus arrives at the tree he can, at first, not see her and then he suddenly does. Everything that happens after that reads like a fever dream. At the end of it he's suposedly made the trek to the lake back and forth, but when he gets back to the base his bunkmates hasn't even woken up yet.

@itszekira Год назад

somthing feels so off about that whole sequence I kept starting over thinking im was tired or somthing

@jessice293 10 месяцев назад

Ooooh I like this theory!

@adrianaavila8853 10 месяцев назад

Yes! I haven’t read the book but I did see the movie. I assumed something like you said happened a bit later. The point of reality vs. not. I thought it was when he gets bite by the snake trap she left him. From that point on, the earring he found tracing her footprints and him loosing control shooting at the mockingjays in the trees thinking delusionally that they’re jabberjays cause he can hear her voice and song… I thought the ending was unusual. This … this is interesting!!

@trinity9792 10 месяцев назад

I think that was one of the origin stories of "the hanging tree" in the Mockingjay book

@jaymeegrayson4662 9 месяцев назад

He has the snake bite and the scar it left on him?

@louisacoote2337 Год назад

My theory is that Tigris took the modifications to her face and/or body to become more cat-like too far and it eventually was considered too much by the Capitol and was dropped as a stylist. Katniss mentions something about it in the books, I believe.

@Yibambe. Год назад

I think Gaul forced the modifications on her as a test of Snow's loyalty. He abandoned his cousin in order to further his own ambitions.

@patrickdematosribeiro1845 Год назад

@@Yibambe. I don't think the timing works for this theory. Catniss remembers Tigris looking less grotesque. So at least some of the changes were made when Catniss was already alive. At this point Snow was already president so Gaul was in no position to test his loyality.

@elevator3 Год назад

@@patrickdematosribeiro1845i agree but i think that gaul is dead by this point anyways, she’s described as an old woman with frizzy gray hair, she couldn’t have made it 55 more years

@Boundwithflame23 Год назад

@@elevator3 Ye and if by some chance she was still alive when Snow became President I’ll bet anything he took steps to ensure she didn’t live much longer after that.

@StarryEyed0590 Год назад

Tigris does already have a predilection for raw meat when we first meet her. I feel like that could be related to her turning herself into an actual cat person

@dylanfry7978 Год назад

Crazy to see how far these guys have come in just 7-10 years. How much they’ve accomplished. Makes me feel old.

@JesusProperty-nd9jj Год назад

I am loving the Hunger Games content!! Any chance you could do a J vs. Ben Hunger Games video?

@SuperCarlinBrothers Год назад

VERY GOOD CHANCE

@lex9313 Год назад

@@SuperCarlinBrothersSCREAMIN

@Lauren_210 Год назад

PLEASEEEEEEE@@SuperCarlinBrothers

@stephanieclark8327 Год назад

I think this theory has merit. I hope we get another Snow book, the last one honestly left me wanting more.

@artofjessirenee2617 Год назад

I think Snow sold her too. Any of the victors or stylists that were beautiful and desirable... So Tigress modified herself to be "grotesque" and unwanted by buyers. And was let go from the games as a result.

@leelahasan3988 10 месяцев назад

Corolianus Snow would never sell another Snow in that way unless he had to for their survival. He contemplates it at the start of the book, and it fills him with horror/dread. He's far too much of a narcissist to do something that would reflect so poorly on the Snow name, because most of the horrors he commits are done with the express purpose of restoring the name and by extension, his rightful place in power.

@haylinpm8973 9 месяцев назад

That'd be sick and dark but it'd tarnish the Snow name wouldn't it?

@evelyn_r Год назад

my concern is that she didn't sell herself, more that she was forced and then had to accept silence in return for food and protection otherwise face herself being killed and dumped like trash. because selling herself, undesireable as it would be to most people, is knowing the fact you did something to protect and keep your family safe, the other, she had no choice as her death would not keep them safe.

@FairbrookWingates 11 месяцев назад

She seems to frame her 'disgrace' as a choice she made though, which would imply selling, not force. She expresses shame for having to make the choice she did. While I don't think she should be shamed either way, I can see her feeling choosing to sell herself to further the Snow family as shameful where as choosing to stay silent to live, as you suggest, would be basic survival anyone would do. Also, I suspect Snow would pity Lucy if she had experienced force, where as he feels disgust that she may have made a distasteful choice. In this, Tigris clearly feels a connection to Lucy, further implying choice over force. In so far as either Tigris or Lucy's circumstances allowed them this 'choice', of course.

@Jessica-oz5bm Год назад

I love that you guys are finally delving into The Hunger Games! Hoping this means we will see some related questions on the next trivia night live stream🤞🏾

@lillipup_tamer1148 Год назад

This is such a good theory. Totally here for the Hunger Games content since I just read the Ballad of Songbirds and Songs.

@MSgt5J071 11 месяцев назад

Interesting theory. I like it. Wouldn't be surprised if it was accurate because it makes so much logical and chronological sense. Only one thing that I would add: I seem to recall Tigris saying to Katniss something to the effect that she was a stylist until "she wasn't pretty enough anymore," with a heavy implication that someone else made that decision for her -- maybe Coriolanus? So maybe he poured salt into an open wound by using her until she was of no more use, at which point Tigris would see how little value he placed not only on her life but the lives of others. Just a thought...

@chellerounds7608 9 месяцев назад

You are absolutely right, I believe it was Mocking Jay PT from or PT 2 after they her home and took shelter.

@wasumoto457 Год назад

I read this book so quick I couldn’t put it down so I’m hoping the movie will do it justice I WANT THE FULL COVIE

@lucygarrett9785 Год назад

Same! I love the book so much!

@elevator3 Год назад

100000% same here!

@bjhorselover2016 9 месяцев назад

Tigris’s story to me is so sad. She helped raise her younger cousin. She loved him and did her best to care for him. Yet in the end he betrayed her. I don’t know her whole story. Just bits here and there that Iv heard and idk which ones are cannon or not but she definitely seems like a sad soul. Used till she had no more use and then cast aside. The Ballad of Songbirds and snakes showed me more of that. I absolutely loved the movie. The whole of hunger games

@annalachelt7441 Год назад

That line made me sick! "And what on earth would she possess worth trading for it? Only one thing - herself -" Where do you get off being upset about your cousin maybe selling herself for your shirt when however many years later you're selling a FIFTEEN year old CHILD into prostitution??

@clover2739 Год назад

Obviously snow is sick but I mean… to be fair he obviously would be upset with his own cousin who he was close to at the time selling her body which isn’t hypocritical at the time because he hadn’t done that other stuff yet

@quizzlybear 10 месяцев назад

I wouldn’t say he could be “bought”. Finnick was very loyal to his wife, I’m sure if it was just money he’d turn them down. This wasn’t a case if being “bought” but rather “do this or your entire family dies”. Finnick wasn’t given much of a choice.

@nomad_sofficial 10 месяцев назад

At the end of The Balad of Songbirds and Snakes, Tigress says to Snow "You look just like your father" says it all. She sees that he has turned evil and disapproves of his ways.

@theultimateusukfan Год назад

really cool theory. i wish finnick survived long enough to meet tigris again.

@cisio64123 11 месяцев назад

There were 64 years in between the prequel and Katniss becoming a tribute so many things could have happened to have turned his cousin Tigris against him. Clearly something or even many things happened that made Tigris totally despise Coriolanus enough to actually want him dead. Coriolanus was so obsessed with getting and maintaining power that it isn't so much a stretch to think he possibly resorted to using Tigris if need be. She likely would have seen too much of who he really was to not be poisoned in her view of him and slowly start to hate him . Her career boost as a stylist for the games might even have been a reward for her cooperation. It would make sense in the timeline that knowing about his use and abuse of Finnick might have been the final straw that turned her against him forever. With Tigris against him and no longer useful she was discarded as a stylist by Coriolanus which given how she earned it by helping him rise to the power he enjoyed made her out for his blood . This is her total motivation to help Katniss and the rebellion later.

@soulslayer1421 9 месяцев назад

Don't forget to add into the theories as to why there was an opening for a hunger games designer for district 12. Perhaps since Plutarch was already working with Tigris that he arranged for her to step down or be cast out by snow since he had his ear, and that allowed for a designer slot to open as the others moved around and cinna was '"chosen" for district 12.

@claudeyaz 10 месяцев назад

I don't know it makes me wonder if snows subconscious actually wanted catness not only to succeed, but also to succeed against any other tyrants that stood up, I think he was really disappointed by that childhood friend and thought he had a symbol for hope, and that's why he kept testing the symbol of hope that was cat ness

@claudeyaz 10 месяцев назад

So Tyrus made this decision on behalf of the snow that she used to know before he had changed and gotten much darker and his selfishness was exposed, th man he either used to portray or maybe the man he used to actually

@Yibambe. Год назад

Gaul mutated Tigris to test Snow’s loyalty. She likely did not do this to herself. That’s why she hates him. Tigris hated the games by the end of Songbirds and Snakes; it’s unlikely her participation was voluntary.

@lenakataeva7525 10 месяцев назад

I like this theory

@dammitmandy1166 5 месяцев назад

Katniss also said that prostitution went on in her district and had it not been for hunting, she might of had to line up at Commander Cray’s door with the others …

@paigedunne7905 8 месяцев назад

Coryo and Tigris are similar in age. If snow was too young to remember how bad it was, Tigris was too young to ever be able to forget.

@TheNin-Jedi 9 месяцев назад

We see Finnick and think of his 20 something self. Yet when he won he was 14... The youngest victor. And was passed around like meat. At 14.

@Mandylove1000 Год назад

This made my heart hurt so much cause Finnick and Tigris are 2 of my favorite characters and I cried so hard when finnick died

@katnissever-meme9318 5 месяцев назад

ooooh, this makes a lot of sense. I had always theorized that she was his stylist for the same reasoning as stated in this video (the timeline for the Games Katniss remembering her from lining up), but I wasn't sure how to fit the pieces together once Songbirds and Snakes came out

@meesletter6326 Год назад

Omg i love the hunger games and read it like 10 times, how did i never come up with this, such a cool theorie, good job guys!

@SuperCarlinBrothers Год назад

Thanks!

@aurorasilverthorne Год назад

Finnick is a hottie for sure. What if Tigris did the physical modifications on purpose to avoid being recognized? She'd be able to get away with helping the rebellion more due to her cousin not realizing it's her. Snow would've been more likely to act against her or retaliate if he knew it was his own cousin "disgracing their family name" by aiding the rebels.

@michaelwarren5895 10 месяцев назад

I thought the line in the movie "I think you look like your father" or something along those lines was maybe a nod to this? They had a discussion earlier in the film where someone noted his fathers' eyes were full of hate and that she didn't want the same for him. Then at the end of the film, she notes he looks just* like his father? Probably reaching but it was the very first thing I thought of while watching. I really liked the dynamic Tom and Hunter brought their relationship on-screen.

@trinigarcia3588 11 месяцев назад

In the ballad of songbirds and snakes, no it’s actually a decent human being. So are most of the people, who refuse to watch the hunger games. Snow doesn’t really become evil, until he becomes a peacekeeper in district 12. Before that, he even hates Dr. Gaul. A good portion of his classmates dislike the hunger games. In this book, Tigres knows Cornelius to be kind.

@deborahwahl2946 20 дней назад

One point you don’t touch on is in Song Birds and Snakes Snow says he detests the body modification, and Tigris knew about this. I was so excited when SBaS ended because we were going to see the rise of Snow. Then she said she wasn’t going to write any more. You can imagine my excitement when she said she was writing about the half quell. More about Snow, more about Haymich, more about Tigris.

@antonboludo8886 Год назад

If they can do all that, then they can fix Snow's chronic bleeding mouth problem.

@evilempryss Месяц назад

Katniss and Peeta watched recordings of the Games as far back as Mags & Beetie (or further?) in preparation for the Quarter Quell, so her "memory" of Tigris as a stylist could have gone back more than 10 years.

@SommerVideos Год назад

awesome vid! i am about halfway through ballad of songbirds and I am now so excited to finish it. thank you for picking out such small details! i think youre def onto something here. really smart analysis and theory

@KyleOttenhoff 2 месяца назад

One of the things you get to see in the movie is Tigris does in fact see her cousin. Halfway through the movie, she looks at him and says she doesn’t see hate in his eyes like his father had. But at the end when he asks how he looks she can barely look at him and says “you look just like your father.” Indicating that she knew he was no longer the person he was prior to the games.

@prospermodestyspirit94 11 месяцев назад

I think tigress choose those modficaion so she can never be looked at by capital and also not be noticed by snow for any future resistance.

@temujinbear911 10 месяцев назад

How is there only one video talking about tigris betrayal of snow? Its kind of a huge part of the story

@danielamorones9153 10 месяцев назад

For some reason I actually imagined that Tigris selling her body was somehow to dr Gaul, being one of her experiments

@amazinglytoxic1399 10 месяцев назад

correct me if i’m wrong, but the entire film tigris only refers to snow as corio, until her very last scene when she refers to him by his full name, coriolanus, when saying he looks just like his father. i think that was supposed to show us that tigris saw how snow had changed/what he’d become. but that’s it? i definitely wish that tigris was more involved in the story. i thought she was going to be the first stylist for the hunger games but oh well.

@marquesbowden0130 Год назад

1:24:13 The Ultimate Warrior will always be my favorite wrestler. When I was about 9 or 10, I had my face painted for Halloween as the warrior. I think that when he was inducted, you could hear a level of peace in his heart. Sometimes, when you let go, then it gives a measure of peace to move on. RIP...I will never forget how lit I was when that them sing came on.

@joni--bologna 7 месяцев назад

Our Marcus Theater just played all the Hunger Games, so it's new to me, but i loved it. So, thanks for this information. Very cool.

@hollycomfort 10 месяцев назад

I think that she saw what he was at the end of the movie when she comments on how snow looks like his father. She tells him earlier in the movie that his father had mean or cruel eyes and I believe that her comment at the end shows that she saw what her cousin had become.

@bookishtheory 10 месяцев назад

The fact that without the story of the Star Crossed Lovers and Peeta, Katniss would’ve probably had the same fate at Finnick. Maybe even Peeta too!

@Gamman612 Год назад

I always wondered what happened between them. That is very interesting...sick but interesting

@lotusjewell9984 11 месяцев назад

Honestly, I haven't read the Ballad of Snakes and Birds or..... Birds and Snakes.... yet. But I have always wondered about Tigris. Not just because I love cats and she looks like one, but I've always wondered what her connection to Snow and even to the Rebellion actually was. This clears up quite a bit. Still leaves some questions needing answers, but hey, I'll take what I can get.

@lucygarrett9785 Год назад

I know you’re just making more hunger games videos since the prequel movie is coming out soon but DANG these are good and I want to see more!

@123Its_just_me 4 месяца назад

In book 3 when Tigris protects Katniss and those that were still with her. If Finnick had still been alive when they went to seek help from Tigris, they would have acknowledged one another if they were ever apart of the same hunger games and that would have held a whole new level of interest and intrigue.

@Jana-ho9mu Год назад

I’m so glad you’re covering the hunger games

@rizqieio Год назад

I need to reread and/or rewatch hunger games. I though Tigris already appear before transformation, together with Effie on celebration

@rook9860 Год назад

I loved tigeras role in ballad personally

@beltAroundMyneck 8 месяцев назад

Tigris did see the bad in Snow in the end. Sometime mid film she had told him she didn't want to see the hate she remembered in his fathers eyes.. and in the last scene she says, almost bitterly, "you look just like your father" I totally forgot about the tiger lady in the older movies! Yes! It's Tigris!

@chanbang378 6 месяцев назад

Yeah but you need to remember this video came out before that before, in the prequel book this doesn’t happen. Tigris doesn’t say he’s like how father and we don’t see her start to see bad in him

@kimheim4494 10 месяцев назад

well, Tigres does acctually recognise the evil in snow. In the end of the movie he askes her how he looks and she responds saying that he looks just like his father, which in another scene she said was a horrible person...

@dammitmandy1166 6 месяцев назад

I would LOVE to see a book on Haymitch’s story!! It’s such a sad tragic story. But we all love Haymitch he deserves his own book … if yall have t read the original books … go get them!! His story is….very reflective of Katniss first time in the arena.

@GameMakerRob Месяц назад

Near the end, when she says that snow looks like his father, that's supposed to be the other shoe, I think.

@peoplearegray3893 10 месяцев назад

she definitely recognizes the evil within him. in the beginning she says that she always thought his father had hate in his eyes. then, at the end of the movie, she says, that coryo looks like his father. so she recognizes the change and sees that same hate in coryos eyes that she saw in his fathers eyes before

@XanderDavis237 Год назад

So glad that you made this video. Addressing some serious topics that affect us today in the real world revealed in the artistic fandom’s we all love.

@marianaurrieta4634 10 месяцев назад

I think we did get to see Tigris' disappointment in Coriolanus because at the end she says "you look just like your father" with a concerning look on her face, and earlier in the film we saw her telling Coriolanus not to lose his essence because all she saw in his father's eyes was hate. It was sutil but I think it's a great start for her character's development and for an explanation on how their relationship will eventually change.

@rebeccaq7291 5 месяцев назад

I think Tigris used to turn a blind eye but it got to a point where she couldn’t do it anymore. Her transformation is her subconscious way to distance herself from what she had become.

@DianeVann 2 месяца назад

Maybe it's already been said here, but I also wonder if snows treatment of Haymitch might have contributed to their falling out. She was a genuinely sweet and gentle person so the killing of his girlfriend and family would have upset her very much.

@thezestypirate3815 Год назад

This is about the most realistic and believable theory yall have come up with, great job

@Jenvick Год назад

The original HG book gives a one line mention of her as a stylist.

@anushkakumari1575 5 месяцев назад

No but weird thing, snow is 82 or smth in the hunger games 3 and since tigris is like 3 - 4 years older, she should be like 86. And oh she doesnt not seem like a day older then 40 in this movie, or even written in the book

@MeredithHagan 10 месяцев назад

Your theory is heartbreaking but sound. And it gets even more messed up when you realize that Tigris was 11-years old when the war ended. 😢

@LaurenGrieb-mg3vz Год назад

Can I just say that the second I start reading the hunger game (for the first time) supercarlinbros start posting hunger games videos

@MartinhaR 10 месяцев назад

Maybe its tigris who tell him that snow got on top with poison

@AeSunfyre Год назад

I completely forgot about the cat lady until now xD

@HELLOEARTH1MILLION 5 месяцев назад

No one every truly wins,you never truly leave the arena.Your trapped forever.

@LukeK813 10 месяцев назад

"I think you look just like your father" was the only line we needed to show how she really felt. I'm glad they didn't spoon feed us answers, I enjoy the subtle world building.

@YourRyeBread 6 месяцев назад

Thank you for giving all this info strung together because I can't read the whole series right now (or maybe ever I’m not sure if the triggers would be too much for me)