The idea of an hybrid jeep that gets good fuel economy is kinda neat, especially with 35 inch tall tires and off road accessories. But I'm not really sure the current version 4xE is anything more than a gimmick.
I've had my Wrangler 4xe Rubicon for almost three years and I love it. When you are accelerating, you are telling the jeep you want to move faster and the horsepower in the smaller motor is not enough to move the way you are telling it to with the accelerator, so it supplements power from the gas engine. So I consider that a safety issue. Electric mode is most efficient at speeds under 45. I have a six mile each way commute, so unless I go on a longer trip, a tank will last me 6-8 weeks. But the real bonus, and the reason I bought it, was for the power! (375hp and 470 TQ) 0-60 in 6 seconds, and passing on the highway is unbelievable because it uses both gas and electric. It's like having a nitrous shot of 130 HP.
Electric mode is for around town (milk-runs) and not waking people up at the campground at night. Hybrid mode is for the freeway and distance off roading. E-save is for when you want electric power at the campground. But as I understand it hybrid mode gives you the best combined MPG/E.
I've driven Hybrids Daily for the past 7 years . This Jeep is a Hybrid and the 'All Electric' mode should be for in traffic or in town low speed driving. You will get a few miles at 2 lane road speed but if you ask for Highway speed by matting the throttle, the Jeep is going to respond by firing up the engine and giving you the power you're asking for. It's not really designed to use all of the battery and leave it empty. I have a '21 Honda CRV AWD Hybrid. Not an off roader but I need it for the traction in the rain + crappy country/gravel roads here in NorCal. Why are you always draining batteries, lol. j/k man
It's not the motor that's insufficient under aggressive acceleration, its the ability to get the energy from the battery to the motor in a way that doesn't cause problems. So the engine and generator fire up to boost the power going to the motor.
This is correct. To get deeper into the weeds, the 4xe has a 17kwh battery which is pretty small, and a 100kw motor in the transmission. Battery (cells) have what is called a C rating- for a 17kwh battery pack 1C would be 17kw. Depending on the specific battery cell design and chemistry, a rough ballpark example of the max continuous draw would be something like 3C, and for a short burst you might be able to do, let’s say 5C. If you want to use all 100kw of the motor with a 17kwh pack, you’d be around 5.8C. The more you push the batteries, the harder it is on them too, and will shorten their lifespan. So the gas motor kicks on to generate more electricity. It would be interesting to know if the gas engine is running at a constant (most efficient) RPM and just driving the generator when this happens, or if it’s actually providing proportion power as well.
Motor takes power. Engine makes power. I am a diesel guy, also an electric guy. Just don't like lithium so don't currently have plans for an EV. I would consider a diesel electric hybrid if there was a better battery. Would try a hydrogen electric, if there was fuel available here in Canada at more than 4 places in the 2 provinces I run in. Am still considering an Edison conversion for my Cummins powered Ram.
@@darrinrebagliati5365 what exactly don’t you like about lithium? I presumed it was related to safety which LFP is regarded as being quite a bit better.
Had a Chevy Volt for awhile. Had no complaints about it. Acceleration was really good and during the summer we never bought gas (The wife only had a 10 mile round trip to work). It had a maximum range on battery of about 50-60 miles on electric. Took 8 hours on 110 to change a completely depleted battery. In the winter we had to buy gas more often as everything in the vehicle was electric, the heater the air conditioner the power steering etc etc. when we occasionally went on long trips and the engine ran for prolonged periods we still managed 45MPG. Really good for a full size car. On the highway you could runit on just battery and the engine wouldn't kick on unless you went up a steep grade or asked for a bunch of power all at oncs. I turned it in at the end of the lease and haven't had a desire to get an electric replacement. Couple of reasons why. One yuo aren't saving the environment with one (Only one of the monster trucks they use to mine the ore to make the batteries burns 600 gallons of diesel fuel per hour. Than you have to dispose/recycle the old batteries when they are used up). Two they have proprietary maintenance and so only GM can work on them (Allowing acess to technology would lower the price of repairs and the parts). Than there is the orice of replacement batteries when they wear out, tens of thousands of dollars, crazy. Ok, I'm done venting. Oh a note of inerest, in Alaska all the stores and houses have outside 110 outlets (At least most of them). Great video by the way...
Lots of misinformation there bud. First off, they are better for the enviroment, quit getting your info from fox news or the oil companies. The batteries are recyclable. The battery in hybrid is usually under 1k and most you can replace individual cells for super cheap. Any shop can work on it, we work on them all the time. We've yet to have to replace a battery that went bad from use, it's always been accidents damaging them. If you were talking about tesla, it would be more believable.
Hybrid tech really needs to be explored more. All electric needs to be for efficient commuter cars and hybrid for trucks and SUV use. I’m now on my third week of driving the F150 PowerBoost. It is an amazing set up. It’s a Prius when driving sensibly and a race truck when you spool up the turbos and watch the gas gas drop. 😂😂😂😂
The motor you're talking 26:17 about that's Incorporated in the engine isn't, it replaces the alternator and is belt driven and it provides power to the electric motor in the transmission, even if the battery is depleted. That massive torque and horsepower will always be available whether the battery is charged or not. I have the 2021, love it. Although about half the time I never charge it but still take advantage of the extra kick in the ass from that electric motor plus the turbo 4. You won't get as much range if you're running 35-in tires as you would have staying stock but it's still worth the upgrade. What you didn't talk about, that jeep always has available 375 horsepower and 470 pound-feet of torque. Does it matter whether the battery is charged or not. That's a lot more power than you get from the V6 Jeep.
Nice to hear your take on it. I would like to see a fuel generator with full electric, what some are calling range extenders. Not sure if companies could do a diesel generator without DEF though, diesel would be perfect and way more efficient since it would never get above 2K RPMs as a generator. The weight of the 4xe is a negative, but it's not much different than the Ecodiesel weight penalty, but much better balanced (center instead of in the nose). 🤷♂
We have a 2023 Willys 4xe. It does make a lot of weird noises because everything is electric: HVAC, Power steering, brakes, water pumps for the engine cooling system AND the water pumps for the EV cooling system. These may have to continue running when the gasoline engine is not running. This is good for cooling the turbo since the engine will cycle on and off a lot more than a traditional ICE vehicle. The cooling/heating system for the EV battery may cycle on during very hot days or very cold days.
It’s nice that people can do some cool things to a 4xE now. Can they also park them in their garage again or do they still have a tendency of catching fire? It seems worse than a Pinto as they self explode with nobody hitting it from behind. Also, it draws 10 hours of electricity to drive 25 miles. Say 40 minutes of driving. They call it MPGe. So how many kWh did it take to charge it and how much money did it consume plugged in for 10 hours?
Buying gas is still cheaper than charging the battery. Here in Los Angeles would cost approximately $34.56 to charge a 16 kWh electric car over a 4-hour period at $0.54 per kWh. FYI- Jeep battery size is about 16 kWh
@@Ottoaerialkilowatt-hours are kilowatts x hours. You could charge at 1kw for 16 hours, 4kw for 4hr, or (theoretically ) 16kw for 1hr (though the onboard charger wouldn’t take that much and your house wiring would supply that much). Either way, you’re still getting billed for 16kwh
2023 was the last year for the Diesel in the Gladiator. The Eco-Diesel has 3 generations, and FCA kept trying to fix the problems they were having in these 3 different generations. The Eco-Diesel did not have very good durability in the Ram 1500. Maybe the engine would do better in a lighter vehicle like the Jeep, but the Eco-Diesel was rumored to be originally designed to be used in a car, not a truck. These Eco-Diesel had pretty small bottom end bearings and don't last under heavy use... in fact, the Eco-Diesel in a Gladiator is rated for a lower towing capacity than the 3.6 Pentastar engine. Some people have had good experience with the Eco-Diesel, and some have broken them. I personally don't want one they are definitely not the durability they should be in a 4x4.
I’ve got a Ram 1500 with the first gen Ecodiesel, and the experience has made me want to never buy another vehicle from FCA/Stellantis/whatever they call themselves now. It’s overly complicated and has absolutely no thought put into servicing it. But when it’s functioning properly, it meets my needs extremely well (occasional hauling light, bulky loads long distances) so I want to keep nursing it along. While it was at the dealer for two months this winter, (DEF systems issues, covered under the emissions cheating warranty), I bought a Chevy Bolt as a daily driver. It’s been great and now I can take my time doing things like chasing down the massive coolant leak on the ecodiesel.
@JeremyMakesThings sorry you have had to put up with all that. Honestly, the emissions systems now required on these diesels are a big part of what ruins them. I personally wouldn't buy any diesel with the current state of things on the emissions part.
@@adrianw3985 “clean diesel” is definitely still in it’s infancy, hopefully it survives and matures. But there’s also a massive lack of thought given to serviceability and durability on these. I’m in the process of replacing the coolant line to the turbo. It’s under the intake manifold, and getting that out is a major job. Want to actually take the turbo out? Gotta remove the cab of the truck. That trends is probably across all brands at this point, but I still don’t like it.
As far as I know, a motor uses an external force (think power) to move, whereas an engine creates its own force (power) to move. If I remember correctly from a long time ago...
I find the 26 miles of range kind of limiting. I have a 52 mile round trip commute. If they can get that range up to 50+ miles I would consider one so I could commute on battery but have the gas engine for longer weekend trips.
Not surprised. With all the technology involved switching back and forth, from electric to gas, and Stellantis has issues with electronics in Wranglers anyway
I wonder how much that has to do with private shops not wanting to or able to work on hybrids? I would say 40% of the work we do (work on everything) is Jeeps.
I’ve wondered that, and in theory you should, but I’m guessing the computer(s) would need reprogrammed (ok…ECU, tcu, and who knows what else anymore!….thats why I still have my TJ!)…and when I say yes, you would have to remove the entire transmission and replace with standard one…the 4XE will sometimes go into a mode where it only runs on gas if the gas engine hasn’t been used enough…so again, in theory yes…
It’s a jeep, you can pretty much do anything, but it is incredibly impractical. Some have mentioned ZF makes a 200kw motor version…if same dimensions you could replace that, but again, then you would need to redo all controllers, electronics, wiring, and likely batteries. Again possible, but why in the world would you?? 😂😂😂
They can keep it! I’m not interested in something that costs more money up front and costs even more for charging and maintenance. Still don’t understand why they can’t come up with a gear driven generator that kicks in when the vehicle is in motion.
We have a 2023 Willys 4xe. It is not an EV. I learned quickly that it is a Gasoline Hybrid so the ICE engine will be your main source of power. Our 4xe will force itself out of electric mode when we are at freeway speeds for too long. I assume that the engineers didn't want the electric motor in the transmission to be overworked/overheated. We have learned to just put it into hybrid or Esave before even getting on the freeway. Luckily my wife's daily commute is usually less than 21 miles on surface streets so she rarely uses the ICE engine.
The Motor vs. Engine thing is a pet peeve for me. For talking about hybrids, saying gas=engine and electric=motor is absolutely a good shorthand way to keep it straight what you’re talking about, but it’s not correct. With out going into definitions and etymology, they way to think of it is “all engines are motors, but not all motors are engines.” No one buys a car from General Engines or Ford Engine Company. You don’t go to the Department of Engine Vehicles to register it. When was the last time you heard someone talk about Enginesports or riding their Enginecycle? Remember kids: Internal combustion engines ARE motors, electric motors are not engines. Rant over.
Safety is a concern. But its pollution is the main reason. With its longevity following real close. They are trying to tell us that an EV is better for the environment when there is only a finite supply that comes from an open pit mine, is toxic in any form, can explode releasing deadly gasses, is completely useless after 10 yrs, cannot be recycled or repurposed, makes cars heavier than the roads have been built for and if everyone had one there would be no way for them all to be charged within any infrastructure currently available. Never mind the fact that where I live the battery life expectancy is 1-2yrs and I couldn't use it for one third of the year because it doesn't work in the cold. And the battery replacement cost is three quarters the cost of a replacement vehicle.
Fred, I think along with you on diesel/electric, but it's a dead end with current emissions requirements for new diesel engines. I don't mind the low / no sulfur diesel but as noted the "cat" piss is the diesel engine downfall now. The "rolling coal" jackasses haven't helped ether but hurt it more.
When I found out that the g pad an electric battery. I almost bought one. yet. I was appalled when I found out That it was 😢only twenty four miles and by your estimate or like twenty one. I will stick with gasoline or diesel power right now. Until dean otherwise and when the cost comes down immensely
I think a hybrid is better than straight up electric but this is not impressive. Probably not a cheap conversion but Edison Motors of Canada is retro fitting diesel electric not only in semi but also pickups. For me a real trip to a town of any size is 75-80 miles so I would be driving in gas mode most of the way. Across town commute would be okay on electric except when it's below zero.
Thats the fallacy of the "instant torque" philosophy. You have to have the quantity of torque available in relation to the vehicle mass to feel it. So 300 lb-ft of torque in a gas engine will feel different than in an electric motor. This is also based on the mass of the vehicle. Likely your electric motor doesn't have the torque to provide the acceleration that would be expected out of a pure EV so the electric and the gas combined make it to where you can accelerate up to the highway speed. The way hybrids were explained to me was to provide the acceleration off the battery then maintain motion with the gas but that could have easily changed by now.
As a leased commuter car electric is nice. In California toll lanes are discounted and you get to use carpool lanes, for now, that is going away. No trip to gas station, company has free hookups. In my wifes case the lease payment is way less than what she spent in gas and tolls. As a Jeep with all the extra tech in something you are probably going to purchase and want to take off-road this makes no sense to me. Jeep may also be doing it to get down their federal “carbon footprint”. That was the entire reason they sold the electric fiat 500. So they could sell Hellcats and still be compliant. They lost money on every 500e they sold.
I think it just a novelty, I don't like electric vehicles. The technology just isn't there yet. But I'm also 69 years old and I've always been a gas engine guy. 21 miles isn't much of a range in my opinion.
I'm right there with you I'm 54 and , I'm not into all this portable chemical fires waiting to happen and for so little range , I worked for GM/Delphi in 2011 and got to drive a Chevy volt and the battery didn't last longer than the engineer to drive it to the plant and was done after the first group drove it .
The worst part is Jeep raising 4xe prices to gobble up that tax incentive. I had to grab a 2023 with an older build date last year just to avoid the increase for zero extra features. Watch those maroney stickers if you look at 2023s on the lot. Also, check your income to make sure you can still get the tax incentive.
After all the nightmares friends and family of mine have gone through with Chrylser/fiat products, I would never buy one. I'm sure some people have Stalantis products that are reliable, but I don't anyone that has.
I wish they sold chassis... and then they sold Powerplants.... Drop in a V8, pure Electric, or some sort of hybrid... more Lego.... batteries should be standardized and swappable.... should be able to connect any engine to any transmission to and drivetrain.... I like the idea of electric... I don't want an appliance that is ewaste in 10 years...
Living in the west, I’ll never own an EV…sorry Joe! Not practical for off road overlanding when distance is the name of the game. Also, when crap hits the fan and you need to bug out, you’re screwed with an EV. Ask folks evacuating hurricanes how well that went!
It’s hybrid not a full electric so you do not have a motor big enough for it to be full electric, you would have to swap engine for motor for those kind of capabilities. do your research on full EV they cannot regen power while highway driving so that’s why engine is coming on a lot on highway. EV is best made for dense city stop and go traffic and low speed cruising
Is this an EV? I guess technically It's PHEV, but I hardly ever run in anything but a hybrid. It's more like battery assist. Much like some of the newer Porsche, Ferrari, Toyota, etc etc.
Living in DC, I’ve been able to get up 26 - 27 miles in summer, but as low as 16 - 17 miles in winter with what on. Also at 1% you get more than typical miles per 1 % . The large 100 kW motor is in the transmission, and the 40 kW motor as part of the engine… Yes would love a diesel hybrid, but that would even add more weight, which might be why they aren’t combined…but purely theory…
Referring to your electric and gas comments around the 7 minute mark, for the EV Jeep, is the juice worth the squeeze regarding the cost?? "25 miles" just seems laughable, honestly.
Let’s be honest electric cars are doing nothing for the environment. Electric vehicles are fine. hybrids or standard gas/diesel are def a better choice for people who have a decent commute. Buy what you like and enjoy your life. I drove a 2024 Willy’s 4xE for loaner, that 2.0 sounds like a 1970’s lawn mower. The 110v charger was finicky with where you plugged it in. No thanks
