it's amazing flash is back and playing again but i think it's just as nice that we have you still active and sharing all of this with everyone, thanks for doing these man, they're a highlight of my mornings
It seems like he wants to figure out for himself to find a better way to play in the current meta instead of just copying the meta Terran builds. And that is something to be respected.
@@TheSuperappelflap it looks to me that he really likes to have the upgrade adventage. and he is trying to push the limits of that build to make it work.
I didn't really understand how early academy can be greedy, though. Normally, a "greedy" play tries to get a lot of resources (extra workers or bases) or sometimes high tech early at the expense of army size or base defense. To me, a greedy play can be punished with some sort of early attack or harass, while an overly cautious play can only be punished by expanding. But early academy is sort of the opposite: getting early base defense at the expense of early resources. You can punish a _late_ academy with DTs, but you can't really punish an early academy, except by getting incrementally more resources.
Arty. Thank you. You are so good at explaining the terrain side of the matchup. I watched flash games on another channel and their play by play was fine but they do not have the depth of knowledge or ability to explain it like you do. You should always cast terran games. You know so much about this matchup. Cheers
Thanks for your casts, my understanding of the game improved a lot over the last months. SC1 was the first game that I bought (was eight years old) and though I haven't played it myself for a long time, I now enjoy watching casts now more than ever. PS: again, the eight carrier win condition hits.
Great point about the unique opportunity of watching Flash re-adjust to the game. Will be excited once things balance out again and we watch other players (I loved the Flash interregnum for that reason!), but still such a treat to deep dive on one player. Hope you feel better soon!
Let's gooooooo, nah but seriously these games are awesome. I love how you can really see Flash's thought process throughout the games, almost every action he takes has a rationale behind it. Really informative games.
as opposed to all the other top level pros who spin a wheel of fortune to decide their every move, with zero rationale whatsoever. only flash is capable of planning things. what a god.
Artosis, I sincerely hope you are going to keep these flash games continually running. I'm way too invested and way too far into the rabbit hole to stop any time soon. Kind regards from an old xds fan
Artosis… Why wasn’t Flash targeting carriers directly, instead of fighting interceptors? Also… Would it have been a tough transition to add ghosts + lockdown? Lock half of fleet, get EMP off, and direct target carriers with goliaths? Forgive my ignorance, I’m just a spectator and haven’t played BW in 15 years. Please keep up the Flash casts! Thank you.
I’ve noticed a principle in broodwar that the weaker race cannot allow the stronger race snowball out of control in macro otherwise they just lose. Zerg wins in ZvP if Protoss leaves Zerg unchecked. Zerg greed goes further than Protoss greed. Same here with Protoss vs Terran. Protoss greed will always go further than Terran greed and Protoss can trade even with Terran and as long as they trade army for siege tanks or high quality units Protoss will rebuild army easier and faster. Same with Zerg if Protoss loses their high quality units and trades even with Zerg, Zerg is ahead.
You're backwards. Protoss win in all matches if literally any race lets them go unchecked. Also your statement is kind of a tautology because this is true in literally any situation. And not just on Starcraft. Imagine playing Undead and just letting your Human or Night Elf opponents play completely unmolested.
@@ollaitsrealgood Well, Undead if left unchecked and free to expand is the strongest race in wc3. Human and Night Elf need a second base to really get going. Orc can only snowball if their heroes get high level. But Undead has good units, although expensive, and amazing heroes. With a strong economy they snowball the hardest. The only thing they dont have is strong midgame units, past where crypt fiends are effective, and super late game air. Frost Wyrms just cost too much supply vs stuff like the Human hawks that can disable enemies and web from the Orc.
i really like the way flash is playing that second game, i think he is going to figure it out sooner rather than later i personally think that something terran players should start doing is to move a group of vultures ahead of the army and start picking off zealots
My issue is dealing with carriers. Seems ever toss goes carriers. I can be smashing them and carriers always happens. How does terren players deal with this? Just mass glitches? A group of clocked wraths?
Please keep the flash train comming! Lovely videos as always Artosis and wish you the best with your sore throat! :) Could you maybe up the video resolution though if not too much trouble? HD looks a little blurry. :S (youtube has low bitrate even with premium, 2K res maybe? 🤞)
The big question in my mind, is why not to go simultaneously to ghosts with locks and Goliaths? You already cut his mining base, just kill what’s coming in carriers, and you still can win. But it seems he had no interest in fighting and ggs…. (Sound of scratching my head)
You know, those supply depots just remind me of like, the early days with BoxeR like, blocking off ramps that wern't his or locking units into his base and stuff. That's the kinda meme shit that got me in in the first place.
Actually, this has already happened. Lu Xiaojun, one of the best weightlifters of all time basically started from scratch after not training at all for the longest time and video'd the whole thing. He got caught by a doping test before the championships tho
Hey artosis, I noticed that you do analysis of games at the start of the next game. Is it possible you do the analysis at the end of a game, thus the start of the next you can explain openers/reactions?
So I’ve been critical of Flash since he’s come back…. but I kinda think he’s playing possum. He’s playing bad on purpose, just to test shit out. However…. I used to be much better than I am now and as I get older I suck more. So is this really Flash sucking or is this Flash doing mind games? I find it hard to believe that Flash “devolved” to not being able to target with his tanks. He’s intentionally dying in my opinion…, Or he’s using strats he knows are bad but he’s just working it out.
One silly question. Do Flash and other pro/semi pro find themselves in a lobby and arrange matches, or do they simply queue? I ask because queueing at high level can still produce shitty pairings with hackers, cheesers and what not. I would hope there is a lobby (like the CPL discord) and they arrange matches there.
Flash keeping making those adjustments. 1st game it looks like it just needed a better fortress, either with more vultures or mines or some buildings (supply depots for ex).
Do you think Bisu sending those 4 Templar to die into that group of vultures was intentional to mislead Flash? Makes Flash think Bisu supply is tied up on making new Templar etc instead of recognizing the carrier push ealeier
Hey Artosis, Thank you for keeping me entertained and giving me a moment of relaxation as I'm currently trying to build a political party on "the Map" called Sweden. We are a terrain race, with the spirit of Apes and hope to build a horde and go on the offensive like the Zerg. Thanks again, I hope our Party (The Global Party) might be of some service in the future to you and your subscribes. Just know you are to great help at least for me, if not other members of the party to. Kind regards, Your friend ("Kamrat" in swedish) Karl Mitra Samarasinghe The Global Party
I think Flash doesnt use mines at main base, because perfect protoss with a shuttle takes 0 damage from mines. To reword it mines are gamechanging against lesser players, but unreliable vs Snow or other top ones.
bisu de3finitely plays less greedy than some of the other protoss but it just felt like he had control of the whole game, even when attacking poorly trading 50 supplies for 10
Why is not more T players using Ghost and Lockdown against Carriers? Also, I don't see the goliaths targeting the Carriers itself, almost only shooting at the interceptors - why?
If Flash's build already invest in early starport maybe 1-2 wraiths for anti shuttle defense is worth it? Yeah 2 wraits is 2 less tanks but usually lose more than two tanks when a reaver gets it. Goliaths pathing is too clunky to be effective from little i've seen.
I can't help but wonder if this could be a rare case where one of the more extreme ways to combat carriers could be viable. Such as lockdown and nukes or cloaked wraiths and killing obs. It seems Flash was in a winning position when he scanned the carriers at 32:25, with the carriers being the only way for Bisu to comeback. Yet as it plays out, goliaths only seems an inevitable loss in this situation.
The problem is that carriers are a tier 3 massive investment for protoss and terran players lose to it because they dont get their own high tech out fast enough. Battlecruisers with yamato destroy carriers and they are equal tech compared to protoss carriers with the interceptor upgrade.
@@pandabearguy1 Well let's check. Covert ops and lock down take 25 and 63, ghost 31.5, they start with 50 energy need 100 for lockdown. Maybe around 30 minutes when Flash was winning he could have made a prophylactic covert ops for just 50/50 resources. a round of carriers takes 88 and 104 to make all 8 interceptors. Nuke silo and nuke only take 50 and 63.
@@SpiderWaffle Lots of if's. I'm not saying its impossible, but I'm not a pro either. I'm just a game theory expert, from MIT. Ghosts die way to easily as well. Cloaked wraiths seem to be a good choice if you see the carrier switch before any carriers are out.
@@pandabearguy1 ya I don't know what' viable or best necessarily. I do think some sort of precautionary step should be made by T when they're up significantly enough late in a game and realistically only one thing could beat them. More ports is a big investment compared to covert ops + maybe a couple defensive barracks, which T already like to made more than one of for walls sometimes. But ya, the wraiths have been shown to be more practical than lockdown. Mixing in some Goliaths is also an option, or Valks. Maybe in a large numbers of interceptors and goliaths, valks do well to help kill more interceptors. A control tower, and some goliaths isn't that much cost.
Ah my daily window into the Broodwar people by the anthropologist himself. What will Flash have learned? How will Bisu react? How does it differ to what these people thought the optimal strategy was one year ago? How will it be in a year?
