Mineral boosting 100% adds more depth to the already most in depth game of all time. Great cast today artosis you were spot on. Especially about the 400 account trolls 😂
@@DirkyDiggz basically there's little tricks you can do to slightly increase the rate at which your workers bring in income in the early game. Or when you have low worker counts. You can move larvae to the left of hatchery to have them spawn closer to minerals, you can line up workers or place buildings in a way that causes workers to travel in a more direct path from mineral to main base or you can hit the return cargo button at a certain moment to cause the worker to travel faster. There are videos that go into exact details on how to do all of that. If anyone wants to be the best at starcraft they really need to learn all the little tricks in the game because it all adds up.
Forgg is a really nice dude!! One of the hardest working and most humble RTS players out there. Takes time to message fans back. Glad he got his tourny win back in the day. Great casts as always RT. Thank you!❤
Mineral boosting gives a microscopic advantage anyway. For bots it does matter, because they can do it perfectly at every patch for the whole game, but even then it's easy to exaggerate the impact. It's a truly tiny increase in mining speed, and of course it won't get you any more minerals out of a patch in the long run. I'm sure it's still worth it for the pros to practice a little, because they spend a trillion hours a day practicing anyway, and every microscopic advantage matters. But it's just not a big deal and won't meaningfully affect the games from a viewer's standpoint, or even from the standpoint of players really.
wc3 has similar mechanic to mineral boosting. you can get ~100% gold mine efficiency with 4 miners if you manually send the worker home after it collects. Grubby does it in his streams, its a very cool mechanical skill
Regarding this aspect, mineral boosting is a classic example of “complex” but not deep. The game designer can add many such things that create skill expression. But apm tax is boring to do and watch.
Flash essentially plays TvT as a Protoss, which is quite fascinating! Tanks are Dragoons and Vultures are Zealots. You want to retain as much of the former as you can while the latter serves as meat shields. Goliaths are... just there, I guess.
1) If ForGG had been more disciplined with not throwing away tanks I think he might have a good chance. 2) my favorite series of all time is actually from Arena MSL! Kal vs ForGG Ro8. I'm not sure anyone but me, Kal, and ForGG remember it, but it's a full clown series featuring DT rushes vs vulture drops, proxy 2 gates, and multiple games with scouts.
I wish ForGG kept the wraiths alive a bit longer each time. There were some dubious trades there. I think the idea was good though, and there existed opportunities for value even at the end game for the wraiths.
Grubby had a great video on his channel GrubbyTalks this week where he ranked different games (mostly RTS) by their depth and complexity. I liked his framing that you want high depth, whereas high complexity by itself is just a cost or a disadvantage. So when you mention that mineral boosting provides depth to SC:BW, my thought was more like: That sounds like it just adds complexity without adding any depth, and that's bad.
All the tricks you learn as you play are added into your toolbox, even the little ones. Mineral boosting will not make or break you on average, and even at the highest of highest levels it's not going to completely decide a match, but at that level you want every little advantage you can find anywhere at all. They do add depth to the game, something that detracts from starcraft 2 for example is the pathing of units and the ai of units being a little too good, but a negative for starcraft one is if you are moving down a ramp for example you need to click upwards of 15 times sometimes to make sure they all get down the ramp without going backwards, that I would argue is pretty bad. Something like trapping a worker/selecting an overload in your mutalisk control group so your mutalisks can stack up in a ball to make sniping targets better and avoiding focused damage is depth.
@@kizzagaming6523 It really doesn't add depth to the game. It's not interesting. It's just an extra thing you can do to get a tiny advantage. Like imagine StarCraft came with an extra button you plug into your PC, a big red button with a USB cord. And all the button does is make your workers mine 1% faster for 1 second every time you press it. So you sit there pressing this button over and over just to mine faster. What do you think the game reviewers are gonna say about that? It's stupid and it adds nothing to the game! If you didn't spend your APM on that you could spend it on something else and the game would be more interesting as a result
It does add depth because as you get further in the game it becomes less and less worthwhile but where that cutoff point is depends on the players skill Also its not like you have much to do at the start of the game so it adds something to the early game that you can do to give you an edge And that argument with the button is just a fallacious argument imo Its just an ad absurdiam that doesnt actually relate to the topic at hand
You don't play Brood War, so you have no idea what you're talking about. In your little world of limited knowledge, I can see how you think you're making sense. But you're not making sense, because you don't know anything about the game.
There was a point where forgg had 8 damaged wraiths, and was against only two goliaths at a time with tanks do clear, but he doesn't engaging because two goliaths. I see it as he should have been repairing them. I feel that the wraiths had a big enough number advantage they could have sniped the gols quickly and kept picking off tanks. I still think he loses in the end with that scv disadvantage already, but still. I feel it would have kept him even army for much longer. What do you guys feel?
What's meant by being a "technical" player - i.e. in this case Artosis said that ForGG was a technical terran player? Does that mean very precise builds or something?
The return path from some of the patches is not straight. Hitting the return cargo button at the right time straightens out the return path of the worker, which increases mining efficiency
Having watched Tosis for a while, it feels like a lot of BW's depth comes from exploits and quirks turned features, because the game has been played and studied to death.
Also because it is impossible to have the apm high enough to play anywhere close to optimally. So players have the freedom to choose which exploits and tricks to interact with. There are also very few exploits that are considered a must have, like muta micro.
Something I always wonder when I watch these games is, how do they know its Flash? You say "he knows it's Flash", but how did he even tell? I'm super lost with the whole thing with the barcode names too 😅
Artosis has mentioned 'hotkey mapping' as an identifier of players. He likens it to a 'fingerprint' that is impossible to other players to duplicate. I think it must be some computer program that maps the fractions of a second between inputs in the game and creates a pattern that is then confirmed with games we know Flash played.
@@MyNewSoundtrack in this case, they see the barcode with the vv at the end. Those at the high mmr level probably get to know each other since there are fewer of them
@@addlemm44 I remember the hotkeys point yeah. So basically players are all aware of this barcode already and they just recognize him right away. That's something I'd only expect from pro BW players lmao
I know it's a Flash game but have you seen Sn0w's probe micro??? Imagine you are a mere mortal T vs Sn0w's early game P... Any and all of us would lose before the 10th minute...
To be honest this was a little bit boring game out of all the matches Flash had so far, but I did like the playstyle difference between the players and it made it somewhat interesting.
There are different techniques for different patches. You'll have to watch a vid for in-depth, but for e.g. sometimes you can fix it so a worker continuously mines faster, or you press return cargo at a particular location to fix the mining path, making it more efficient.
"Mineral boosting adds depth to the game" Yeah and if they had to do long division in their heads it would also add "depth" to the game It's a question of what skills you want the game to test Personally I'm interested in overall strategy, army composition and unit control but not macro technique so I find battle aces pretty interesting and stuff like this the least interesting part of starcraft Sirlin's Game Design Podcast Ep. 13 on SC2 LOTV is a good extended discussion on this that mirrors my thoughts Difficulty and complexity that enables more nuance in the core skills you want to test is good or at least defensible Difficulty/complexity that doesn't really test core skills is... hard to defend (but you can argue fiddly micro control in order to macro optimally is a core skill to you)
The mineral boost argument is absurd. You could also make every scv be manual and that would add "depth"... its still makes unhealthy control requirements and artificial barriers to entry.
Its not a barrier to entry because you dont need to do it Acting like you cant play the game because of something like mineral boosting is quite absurd, And its not even that hard to learn but it matters so little that you dont have to do it until you are at the top of the ladder A mechanic that only matters at the very top is by definition not a barrier to entry
