My wallet was so hopeful for a viable alternative. Gulp Grubs remain the undisputed champions.... but I am going broke. I wish they would just make the tails stronger. Porgies love them.
I have a Plano waterproof case and keep my gulp with their juice in there, but I will mix other soft plastics (NOT Z MAN!!) and let them absorb the juice as much as possible. They still don't work as well as Gulp, but they work better than stock! It at least helps spread the cost of that gulp. I usually just buy the gulp shrimp and mix it with other plastic grubs (HR Tackle) and bass style flukes (Zoom Super Fluke). I also make sure to get packets with a lot of liquid.
Cocahoe minnow is a great sub. Use on 1/4 ounce jig. Use 3 inch. Strawberry white. Chartreuse firetail and purple yellow tail. I only ever needed these colors but got a handful others too.
I don't think one is worse than the other. John, you surely know that sometimes you have to match the hatch. It's really about providing them something that's in the area. I think the shrimp scent wasn't good for the fluke up north. We only have small grass shrimp. The fluke must not have been on that bite at the time and went more after the gulp juice, which is probably menhaden and other things like squid oil.
did the same thing all summer in mtk hoping the zman would win because of its durability , gulp outfished everytime no contest with the fluke. the seabass didn’t mind as much . gulp still got us john lol ... 5-8 dollars a bag
Gulp is undoubtedly the best scented bait on the market. Zman is definitely in it as far as durability and action though. As good as procure is I don’t feel like flounder like it as much. Then again I haven’t tried it for that. Pro cure has a flounder scent and the inshore one which is my preference.
So, I fished gulp for three years in Korea, and for some reason, only damiki jerkshad out fished them 1 gulp per 20 damiki. Same looking halibut/flounder, but they prefer different baits based on different water. I’d love to see you fish using the same technique across west coast and different countries to see how they varies. Very educational video!
@@JohnSkinnerFishing I’ve lived and worked in Japan and Korea for several years, and most of the fishermen there used Damiki armor shad exclusively like we use gulp in the states.. I found some 5inch armor shad via tackle warehouse.. definitely check it out.. I’ve used it to catch black seabass but no luck with flounder yet due to weather conditions here in Delaware.
I have found the same here in Texas. I have tried more durable baits with scent gels, but I have a hard time beating Gulp. Unless the fish are very active feeding, the Gulp typically wins.
I love the part when you say "there gonna ride me the whole time" I get that alot from my fishing buddies to because I like to experiment with different baits and you know what works best if you don't try different things.
I fish in the pamlico sound for flounder. I have had mixed luck with Zman on the flounder. Some days they will hammer the Zman and other days the only thing they will hit is Gulp. I tend to use Zman more because I am also catching Redfish and Speckled Trout. Color seems to play a bigger factor where I am fishing also. They like a white body with chartuese tail. I am only fishing in 2-6 foot of water. Great Video!!!
I’ve found out fishing a normal fluke at the bottom with a 1 1/2 or 2 oz bucktail off bottom with a 4 inch gulp at the top works amazing for me! The bigger gulp is just a waste of $$$! Great video, John!
I found the same as you regarding the 4-inch gulp vs larger when I fished Long Island Sound between Riverhead and Wading River. In the ocean and Peconic Bay, the larger grubs rule for us.
I noticed you are retrieving Z-man the same way you fish Gulp. I fish both in Tampa during different times of the year. Zman tail action lures do best with a straight slow retrieve or a single - double 6" rod tip pump. Gulp on the other hand is stiffer and denser. A different type of polymer. I have to give a more erratic rod action with multiple small pumps to give it action. Similar ideology to fishing topwater plugs with a whippy light action rod vs a stiff light action rod on hook sets. Could you do an underwater video of the 2 in the future? Incredible video. Look forward to you trying to catch the flounder here in Fl this winter.
Spent a lot of time fishing Z-Man jerk shads for striped bass in mid-late October, and I had fluke pouncing on them even during night hours. Several people I know have had very poor feedback from using PlugBait..... so personally Gulp and Z-Man wins in my book
John: I started using the Z-man product (once I could find it) this summer after your success in Florida. This year we caught almost as many keepers as last year but maybe 10% fewer shorts overall. It was a tough year in LI Sound. I got sick of sea bass, sea robins, dog fish, etc chewing off the tails and generally ruining the Gulp, so I tried the Z-man tails. I apply Smelly Jelly Squid flavor paste to the Z-man a few times each trip (it lasts a while). My friend stuck with the Gulp. We used similar colors most trips unless fishing was very slow and we just decided to experiment. Overall, the Z-man tails caught just as many fluke as the Gulp did. We didn't catch any big fish on either bait (largest was 24.25", 5.5 lbs. on a Z-man) However the only Z-man tails I needed to replace were those that were on rigs when I snagged bottom or that got bit off by bluefish. They are indestructible otherwise. Since we saw no difference in fish catching ability, and there is definitely an economic advantage to the Z-man tails because of their durability, next year we're going to just use the Z-man tails. Voluntown Ray
Thanks for sharing that! As I said in the video, I'm sort of a fan of the ZMan stuff given my Florida experience. There are situations down there where you simply cannot use Gulp. Which ZMans were you using?
@@JohnSkinnerFishing I've used the same style you tested, teh Z-Man Doormatadorz. Their color choices pretty much match the Gulp colors I use, they're also 6" long like Gulp, but not only are they really tough but they seem easier to thread on the hook, due to a somewhat different texture. The only drawback I see with them is that once you put them on a hook with some kind of barbs to keep it in place, they are so tough that they tend to hang up a little, but even that doesn't seem to have any bad effect on the bait's life. I'm pretty sure I've had fish that hit short and were holding onto the tail until they let go half way to the surface because I've found tiny punctures in the thin tail but they've haven't broken one yet. I wish we could find some big fluke like I see out at Montauk in the Sound to try them out on. Good luck.
Interesting video John. I wouldn't give up on the Z-man just yet. I was just out this past Sunday implementing the tactics you taught me in your fluke mastery course. Using the 6" gulp white grub on the bottom bucktail and the z-man doormatadorz in atomic sunrise on the silicone skirt teaser, I boated about 30 fluke in 4 hours. About half were on the z-man including both of my keepers. Also caught a 15" sea bass on the z-man
The fishing expertise is 2nd to none but I’ll be honest as a west coast native I tune in just to hear the east coast accents poking fun at each other! Lol
Had great success with z-man 5" inch jerkshad in the backbay today, and yesterday, always recharge with procure before casting, I find the z-man works better when working the bait 1-3ft above bottom, almost like fishing striped bass, couldn't used gulp as the snappers were destroying them instantly.
caught many nice keepers on gulp but my 2 biggest fluke were over 12 pounds one on dark side fluke belly and a spearing the other on a one once white spro bucktail and a 4/0 gamakatsu octopus hooks above the bucktail as a teaser with 2 spearing on it. the 12.50 pound fluke took the teaser with 2 spearing.
Wow interesting! I was fishing on a party boat in 75-100 ft of water, used gulp the whole time , but noticed 90 percent of the fish caught were on gulp with either spearing or fluke belly
I fish Gulp always now for fluke. But it makes me wonder because I used to kill the fluke on a bucktail only tipped with a old school purple worm I used for freshwater bass fishing as well.
John, Have you ever tried charging the ZMan grubs in the Gulp liquid? Then you may have a grub that catches fish and doesn't fall apart. Curious to know.
Never used either brand Same question came to mind Gave me some ideas for Alaskan Starry Flounder Caught one once it was almost 3ft I'm dyin ta go fishin right now!
how long were your drifts? The gulp grub is like a sponge and it holds the scent longer so it works better for longer drifts, the z-man doormatadorz have great action as you stated but the pro-cure will wash off after a couple mins down there so they work better for short drifts. Plug bait is a joke, the shredder crab oil comes off the grub before it gets to the bottom.
Drifts are mostly 10-15 minutes. I disagree that the scent washes off the PlugBait. I know that because of one that's sitting on a table in my garage. It was fished, hosed off with the rod, and although not oily, it still smelled like the scent. The proCure paste did not wash out of the bucktail either. In fact I tried to wash it out of the bucktail when I got home but can't get it all out.
@@JohnSkinnerFishing Although your plug bait may still have a scent to it in your garage, I think that's only because there is a residual film on the plastic and the smell is strong, the oil is not soaking into the plastic material and underwater that scent could be very different. Yes the procure does hold better on the bucktail hairs than the plastic grub and I have had almost equal success using procure "menhaden" on the bucktail vs gulp but again there is a large difference to applying an external oil to an impervious material vs a "water-based" scent that is contained within a sponge that when squeezed (by a fishes mouth) releases that scent. As you said in the beginning, this is only one trial, more research/experiments are needed but thanks for doing this John, love your fluke fishing methods!
@@JohnSkinnerFishing Thanks John. Our grubs do indeed absorb the scent fairly well. We did cut down the oil in the bags and jars which was way too much. PlugBait 2.0 has the grubs merge with the oil with a machine that accelerates the absorption vs. just letting them soak/marinade. Hence, the new packaging has 90% less oil. We went way overboard on the oil. It also provide for safer fishing since oil can no longer be spilled. Live and Learn. If you run a test of PlugBait again please use our pink. Also, some chemist put up a side by side comparison of PlugBait and Gulp! www.blueoceangraphics.com/post/all-about-the-scent-inside-the-success-of-scented-soft-plastics-like-berkely-gulp-and-plugbait
What about adding the Zman doormatadorz to your gulp juice cocktail?!? Put the grub and matadoorz in one rig, switch them up between hi and lo and there's your true experiment! Assuming of course that the doormatadorz can absorb the gulp juice equally as grub.
I wish Berkley would go back to the old formula for gulp - I use minnows for trout and bluegill. I got the original on ebay and you could catch a few fish on 1....I got more from BPS but the count was in the lower right (the softer compound) and you are lucky to get 2 fish. I wonder if leaving the baits out in the air to dry a little (how long - who knows) would harden them up....then when you put them in the dip they would soak up more of the good juice?
I would be interested to know if you think it is the material, or the juice, that makes the difference. Perhaps phase 2 of this experiment, to further establish cause/effect, would be to charge these alternatives in the same juice as the gulp (maybe the otter tails as well) to see if the scent is the determining factor, as well as see how the scent presentation holds up over time with these different materials. The reverse would be to fish with the gulp that has been depleted of gulp scent charged up with the recharging products of the alternatives. I would volunteer to fish with these alternative presentations with you so you don't have to be the guinea pig and lose out on fishing time, but could still observe the results of a variety of presentations to drill down on the data. Might be very revealing...
Two weeks ago, I witnessed 3inch Gulp outfish the normally better 4inch version. Also beat Zman on that trip. Sometimes the jighead color is key. This in NC. My boat limited four days in a row.
John good job following through on the experiment. I’d have to agree the action on the new bait is better. Have you considered trying washing off the sent and soaking them in the gulp juice to see if you can have the best of both factors ??’ I’d love to see this if you’re willing to continue the experiment a little further.
I wonder if the procure you were using was the ideal type of scent? I don’t have the experience on the water with fluke fact is only caught them with gulp or bait. I know the menhaden one is striped bass candy. I never tried the inshore procure one I think you mentioned you were using the shrimp scent. Obviously so many variables
Great video I would be interested in you doing an experiment like this with the new fishbites fight club DIRTY BOXER CURLY TAIL and see what happens they have done well for me fishing from docks I wonder how the would do on the ocean.
Hi john I went back to that dock and got 6 keepers I used gulp grub and also fish bites they seemed to like gulp more I did catch one on the fish bite the fish bite there tail seem to get bit off easier to me..
First i want to say im a huge fan of your videos. Im addicted to fluke fishing. That being said I have a question I live on the Susquehanna flats on upper Chesapeake bay and im looking to go beach fishing in new Jersey for flounder. Can you please point me to a good spot in southern Jersey. Thank you so much
Maybe recharging in gulp juice?? I’ve tried alternatives as well, but always switch back to gulp when the others don’t produce. I guess the old saying “if it ain’t broke why fix it” applies..
I tried that on informal previous attempts with both of the alternatives in this video. The Zman grub that I left in there for a couple of weeks melted. The PlugBait held up fine. I saw no increase in catch. I agree with the "if it ain't broke...", but what we're looking for is a more durable bait than Gulp because we have a lot of Gulp grubs torn by seabass.
gidday from New Zealand! we fish very similarly to you over here for snapper kingish and occasional gurnard, loving the videos mate! could anyone enlighten me to what rod he was using on the kayak? warm regards Terry Clynes
I wonder if you soak the Zmans in gulp juice if that would make a difference. The stuff that the plug bait is scented in is finesssence shedder crab oil
I feel the density of the gulp mullet was reduced a few years ago, making it a little softer. They might have realized their product was 'too' good and changed the manufacturing. Anyone else feel like 5 years ago you only needed 1 pk to fish an entire session (surfcasting/inlet/jetty)?
The older packs were certainly tougher,but I think it was just that they WERE old and toughened up with time. Always had a few old packets lying around with assorted leftovers and you could tell from color and consistency.
I had about the same result as you did . I have come down to adding a little bit of squid to my rig with the plug bait . My biggest complaint is the jars leak like crazy.
