Flying VFR through RAIN & Getting Fussed at by a STRAIGHT IN Cirrus & Cool WWII aviation museum -Pt3 

This is a bit misleading the way it's edited. It's important to note that the Cirrus pilot did not have to go around and that we were pulling into our parking spot when he was exiting the runway. There was plenty of room or I wouldn't have made the short approach. If there wasn't enough room, the Cirrus pilot would have been forced to go around, please note that did not happen. 2 miles out is not short final (even if you call it that) and just because he was surprised we "turned in front of him" doesn't mean we "cut him off". He just slowed to normal speeds and landed after we did, which was the "traffic permitting" he asked for. I make power off short approaches all the time and knew that if he were two miles out there was plenty of time to do that (even if he didn't slow down). So I think his comment on the radio made this seem a bit more controversial than it really was.

Seemed to be an ego battle here: "Mr Straight In Cirrus..I don't think that is such great idea."

I have zero problems with straight in approaches when done properly. Lots of pilots flying to unfamiliar areas fly an instrument approach, even in VFR conditions, to help guide them to the runway. That's a long final. The key is to listen to the radio and not just talk. Ask the other guy their intentions. Formulate a plan together. After flying hours upon hours across the country, what's a few more minutes to extend the downwind behind the straight in? Be the bigger man and yield, even if you have the right of way. I've had traffic cut me off and I've just gone around. I've extended downwinds for long finals. We are all in this together. Follow the rules as best you can, but sometimes a little give and take goes a long way.

Lots of great debate in the comments here. I'm glad that there is some focus on the straight in approach especially in light of the recent Watsonville crash. Looking back, there is lots to think about!

First I want to say, the pilots should have worked this out. "Hey Cirrus, can you slow down a little as I will be down and clear before you're on short final?" Also, when I hear another plane heading for the same runway as me, I don't delay communicating with the other pilot as soon as I can. In this case, the Cirrus did say "traffic permitting" and traffic was NOT permitting, and the P210 should have communicated expediously with him. If the Cirrus knew when he was 5 miles out, slowing down a little bit would have created a big seperation. I looked at the Flightaware for the P210 and he was doing over 100kts in the pattern. Based on where the Cirrus ended up, the P210 would have had to extend downwind by up to 2 miles. That really isn't reasonable (or safe), but he also did NOT give the Cirrus pilot enough information to come to the same conclusion. While the Cirrus pilot did say "traffic permitting" he REALLY didn't mean it as he didn't work out the seperation until the last minute. I am not sure both pilots realized they were both in high-performance aircraft arriving at high speeds. Regarding straight in approaches, my Tower Controlled airport does NOT want me doing pattern work in my T210. I have to fly straight in approaches which are easier for him to coordinate all the SLOW trainer aircraft into. With my STOL kit, I can do 75kt approaches (full dirty), but the tower really likes 90-120kt approaches. Meanwhile, all the trainers in the pattern are doing 75-85kt patterns. BTW, I typically just do RNav appoaches for all my landings now as it is easier then flying patterns, especially with other aircraft in the pattern. BUT, I work out with other traffic in the pattern where I am. None the slow trainers do NOT want to pull in front of me and I have had one do a 360 to let me go ahead of him. I have ATC have an aircraft on an RNav approach 1 mile in front of me do a 360 to let me go first. I expect that the Cirrus could be just as fast as the T210 and has gotten used to flying approaches as well, but he should have worked out with a fast plane in the pattern. I didn't get the Cirrus Tail number, but here is the FlightAware for the P210 flightaware.com/live/flight/N731HR/history/20220801/2319Z/KENV/KMCC If you could provide the CIrrus N-Number, I would like to see the Cirrus FlightAware for that landing to show that you were clearly in front of him with enough seperation for this not to have been an issue.

Good discussion about decision making in adverse conditions, including IFR, and terrain.

There’s absolutely no way I would have turned base-to-final when another aircraft was calling out being on final regardless of having him in sight. You set yourself up to be dependent on the pilot on final having you in sight as well and having adequate skill to avoid a possible collision. Being right doesn’t always keep you alive!

I will go ahead and say the difficult thing here. I am a big fan of both you guys and I agree that the Cirrus should have joined the pattern, however I believe you put yourselves at risk especially because once you made that base to final turn you had zero control on what he would do at that point. What if he made a mistake and overran you? It is my humble opinion that I would have extended and maybe yelled at him later if I had to but not turn in front of him to prove I'm right.

I've noticed the straight in approach at non-towered airports is becoming ore and more common - and when you call out the straight in pilots (alerting them to other traffic established in the pattern) they become indignant. Like we're all supposed to clear the way for them. I was taught that if there was any traffic in the pattern at all (anywhere in the pattern), that straight in was a no-go and that you should join the pattern. It was also stressed that even when there was no traffic on the radio or visible, you should still join the pattern because there could be NORDO traffic.

Love that you explained the correct options to enter the pattern. Always be careful and expect the unexpected from others. You may be right… but dead right doesn’t feel any better.

Was just at the airport today watching a Cirrus owner make an ass of himself, tune into my favorite RU-vidr to see another one 😂😂😂

I used to fly straight in on my home airfield (non-towered) LHBS, nevertheless when there is any traffic I made it a new habit to join the pattern. Much better to get some understanding the position of the other aircraft and join accordingly.

Showing pictures from the handbook to show you're right and he is wrong doesn't justify making an unsafe (I would say stubborn) decision in the air. If he is not willing to give way then you should have. Fly neighborly even if they don't, land safely and talk to him on the ground about it if you're actually bothered enough to do so.

Carrier pigeons- the OG Twitter!! Absolutely beautiful views in the last stretch there before landing.

As much as the Cirrus pilot was in the wrong and being a douche, Jason let his own ego get in the way and made a really short approach, turning in front of the Cirrus he knew was much faster. Not sure if he was trying to teach the guy a lesson or what, but it was a bad choice, I think.

I really don't feel great about your decision to turn base when you knew that there was another plane on final. Listening to his radio calls, it was apparent to me that he was going to continue and I don't see how turning base anyway was a better decision than extending downwind until he passed you. Yes, you would have been out of gliding range but in my mind, that risk is lower than the possibility of a midair collision. I'm very open to counter arguments!

To echo an earlier comment, it does seem like more folks are flying straight-in VFR approaches lately. A few weeks ago, I was flying into Friday Harbor, and joined the pattern with 3 airplanes already established in an acceptable way, and 2 folks called straight-in approaches with 4 of us in the pattern - totally bonkers after Watsonville. Glad nobody was hurt here, and although some folks have a sour taste in their mouth because of what feels like bravado on the part of Jason, I appreciate his advocacy for doing things the correct and safe way.

I would have extended downwind and not cut in front of the cirrus. Was the cirrus stupid? Yes, but I'd rather be safe and let the idiot land first then just fly the pattern and be right. Also if you have already some coming in blazing on a straight in despite traffic being in the pattern that tells you already about the attitude of that pilot, I'd be especially careful in that situation.

If there’s traffic in the pattern. Don’t be a rooster ( other names are available) and go straight in. Just join the traffic, join overhead standard and be safe. I was flying once and a pc12 was coming in. Tower said he would hold the pattern traffic for him to come straight in, but the pc12 said no I’ll join the traffic and come in “in turn. Great airmanship.

How rare a cirrus cutting others off in the pattern.

I did my 1st solo in the 172 today. When I turned downwind from crosswind a twin turbo prop called in a 10 mile final. I was thinking ok we're good. When I made my base call he called the 5 mile final. I went full oh shit moment and Watsonville incident came to my mind. When I turned final he was 2 miles out. I hurried that 172 in and did a shortfield landing and cleared as fast as I could. phew!

Only time I’ve used straight in is during training activities or after making calls and checking ADSB that no one is near the field. I am very aware at the non towered I fly into on a regular basis in the mountains as some Jet traffic do use a more straight in approaches due to terrain. It is insane how many arrogant pilots are in the air and expect others to get out of their way. My last CFI was constantly on the radio barking at pilots who were cutting his students off at various points in the pattern. But a great lesson for me to NEVER assume anyone will ever follow the rules in the air.

You guys have a lot of guts keeping this video up. I think it is helpful to see how mid-airs can happen. We can all learn from this video.

Straight in at non-towered airports is always a bad idea if for no other reason than the possibility of NORDO traffic ,,, I was actually getting a little anxious watching this ,,, glad it worked out!

Here in British Columbia I always fly midfield and join the pattern at non-towered airports, because you never know if there might be deer (or other wildlife) on the runway, maybe someone on a lawnmower beside the runway, etc.

You should extend downwind

Cirrus is 100% right in this situation. Traffic on final has a right way. It was very easy for you to extend the downwind.

Y’all repeated the same mistakes as in the mid air in Watsonville. Announced position but did not effectively communicate with each other and deconflict. Don’t matter if you have the right away if you’re dead. He was not supposed to do a straight in but we need to communicate directly with each other and deconflict. Announcing positions doesn’t do that effectively and turning in front of an aircraft zooming in on final probably not the best no matter who’s right.

so you guys were there. you know the timing and i respect both of you as responsible pilots. if i’d been in that situation myself? i’d have done a 360 on downwind. simple, easy manoeuvre buys you two minutes for straight in guy to get onto final and you can slot in behind him. yes, he was wrong and you were in the right. but it doesn’t help if you’re both in a smoking hole short of the field. i’m really glad that where i fly (south africa) long straight in approaches are not allowed. everyone joins overhead and fits into the pattern. if you’re doing a VMC termination of an instrument procedure, conditions are VMc and you can fly the pattern. if they’re IMC then do the rnav because there won’t be visual traffic in the pattern.

You were in right. But if there was even a slight chance for a deviation or collision, get add power, get flaps off, and extend downwind and let the cirrus come in. Always best to preserve your life over your ego and correct knowledge of standard operating procedures.

I have to agree with the unpopular opinion of some of the other pilots on here. Cutting off the Cirrus was absolutely the wrong call here. You can survive an engine out on downwind. You can’t survive a mid-air collision. Shocking to see this from a very popular Aviation RU-vidr and CFI. That said, we all make mistakes and hopefully acknowledge and learn from them. Still love this channel and the content.

I am a big proponent of the straight in approach with conditions. The obvious conditions are of an empty pattern, no one talking on the radio, no one on ads-b and a clear day where I can see the pattern empty with my eyes. If somehow you hit someone on your straight in with previously listed conditions then you were just as likely to hit someone flying over the airport and entering the pattern. Now if the previous conditions don't exist and the pattern has other aircraft I start negotiations over the radio to make it work out in the favor of straight in if possible. Your main tool to making it work besides negotiations is generally just to slow way down. This is even possible in my 310 when I drop gear and 15 degrees of flaps. At that point the 310 is no faster than a 172. It's not hard for the aircraft already in the pattern to work in your straight in when I am practically hovering out there at 110 mph 😉

Can’t think of a better example of how both parties can be wrong at the same time. While the maneuver was legal, it was hardly wise, especially in light of the nonchalant attitude that you can see/hear during the 60 seconds before the turn to base. I still appreciate you showing us this on the video instead of redacting it - the dialogue is has sparked is extremely relevant! 🙌🏼

This reminds me of a trip from St. Louis to Joliet Illinois while between cloud layers and we could see bottoms of above clouds and down below to the top of the intervening layer it was raining so hard it was unbelievable. And in a brand new C150 with 5 hours on the clock. Dumb and I was with a CFI with a instrument rating. Not enough instruments…year 1969.

Another great video, sir. Thanks for sharing. I had a similar issue on my last x-country: while landing at an unfamiliar ap, I entered the pattern the exact way you just showed... there was someone on the RNAV approach... I heard the 10 mile call as I was approaching the ap, didn't hear another call until I was about to turn base, then I hear: "XXX, that's not a good idea, I'm on a 3 mile final", so I did the 'courteous' thing and made a right 360. At that point, right of way makes no difference, I gave way to the straight-in traffic just to avoid a bad situation. As a very low hour pilot, I'd rather continue learning than be another statistic. Love watching you two fly together. I can imagine it's a pretty situationally aware cockpit. 😉

IMHO, there is a human factor operating here. Jason, you admitted you were fatigued and would not have embarked on the journey leg had you been without the support of Socal FM. Correct me if I'm wrong but the sight of the airport was a relief to you both after a long and tedious journey requiring much concentration. I can't help but think you would have ordinarily extended base for the Cirrus had you not been so exhausted. The take away for me here is that when we are tired, we need to be aware that we might just take easier options and cast aside some good practices we have exercised over and over as pilots. In this case it was to positively sight and communicate/confirm landing order and also taking the time to allow an aircraft on an established approach (even though he was in the wrong and also that his speed was very high) to continue that approach and allow your tired self the same grace of an easy approach which would have seen you give way to him. I don't like what the Cirrus did but I think as the CFI, you should have set a better example. Having said all, I love your channel.

One thing I like to do when I find myself with straight in aircraft as CRJs are always flying into my airport while I'm up with students, is to go into slow flight in the downwind.

Eric, your work is wonderful and it exposes all kinds of folks to the experience of general aviation. As a hobbyist videographer, I appreciate the need for some editing room dramatic effect. But please release an uncut version of this approach and landing so we can all judge for ourselves. It’s an important conversation and people on both sides need to dismount from their high horses. Let’s point fewer fingers, let’s own our mistakes, and let’s LEARN what this lesson has to teach us all.

Thank you sharing and no I stay away from straight in approaches unless it’s some airport in the middle of no where with no traffic.

There is so many pros and cons of decision personally I would have done slow flight or a right 360 on downwind but I am also super nice in the pattern and will always do this or extend even if person was on 5 mile final

It unfortunately often seems to come down to a game of aeronautical “chicken”. In addition to be a commercial pilot, I am a professional road driver and the case is no clearer in point than here - defensive driving (or flying) means instigating actions earlier rather than later. Anticipate, slow down ahead of time/widen the circuit/conduct an orbit, being the “smarter” pilot often means coming in second, and demonstrating a higher level of airmanship. The bonus here is you get to tell the tale afterwards... love the C210, did the majority of my SE flight time in them and had the luxury of taking a P210 on a few trips to the flight levels...

Cirrus must have had a different definition of “traffic permitting”.

This is an interesting topic. I fly at a busy non towered airport, which is also used for Instrumented approaches. It is not an uncommon thing to have someone call a 7, 5, 3 mile final Instrumented Approach, which ultimately disrupts an already full pattern. To me it’s really no different if it’s a straight in VFR approach or IFR because the result is the same. FIgure the plane is there doing what it’s going to do. Do I like it, no not really, but it’s sort of a common theme at my home airport. I also think in some cases I have found my self calling a VFR straight in, but only if the chance nobody is in the pattern, or I have no visual of anyone there in the pattern. In this specific scenario, with a clear mind, would have possibly just extended my downwind a tad further, or until the straight in plane passed parallel to my position before turning base. Do you think with your long flight, and maybe/possibly some fatigue was setting in you were just eager to get down? Just my 2 cents for the masses.

I do straight in VFR approaches on occasion. Usually, I do them as part of an instrument approach procedure. If I can't make it work out then I'll just join the upwind and try and work my self in to the flow. This is what the Cirrus should have done, and maybe he ultimately did.

Since you asked...I don't land straight in at uncontrolled fields, ever. I'll enter upwind and fly the pattern every time just to get set up, make sure the runway is clear, etc. I think it's the safe thing to do, even if you don't hear any other traffic. It only takes 90 seconds and I like flying, so why not?

Straight In at non towered airports ONLY if straight in aircraft has declared an Emergency! There might be someone without radio communication in the pattern and miss your hot rodding straight in, ie. Watsonville recently. Thanks for the ride along. I learn something every time viewing your channels.

Hey, you guys landed in California about 2.5 miles from my house! Great channel BTW!

Should the Cirrus have slowed down and let you guys in? Yes. Did he, seems to have. Should Jason have kept an eye on him and come in behind? I'd think that would have been more prudent and better ADM. I find it's better to keep the idiots in front of me so I can see what they're going to do. I'm not often (or ever) defending a Cirrus, and not here either, but I'd rather be right than right and dead. Maybe it was the editing of the situation, but I wasn't impressed by someone with that much experience playing the, "I'm doing it the FAA way" over the practicality of keeping someone who isn't in clear sight with controllable (by you) traffic separation.

I do straight in approaches all the time. Similar to the Cirrus pilot I throw in something about ‘traffic permitting’. I also approach at 120 knots until about 2 miles out. If I hear traffic in the pattern I will slow down or 360 to not cause them to have to change their pattern. If I’m going to a fly-in at an uncontrolled field or the pattern is full I’ll go ahead and deviate to fly a standard pattern. In general I tend to give way to other traffic rather than increase the risk. In this scenario I would have extended my down wind and came in behind him. That way I remain in control of avoidance. FAA recommendations are great, but their not regulatory and you can’t expect everyone to abide by them and ultimately you’re only in control of you’re own aircraft and should have your safety be the #1 concern.

Guys thanks for publishing this. It’s putting a spotlight on an aspect of my training that’s perfectly timed and sorely needed as I will solo in the next couple of weeks. Thanks again

The cirrus pilot was role playing a jaded corporate pilot flying rich boss in the king air. Never have seen one fly a pattern.

May i ask the backing music @ 4:18? Thank yo so so much! Happi. Flying!

In my opinion straight in are fine, of course depending on the traffic on the pattern. Usually I rather give away for someone on a straight in as it’s much safer than cause an accident because someone is in a hurry to land an airplane. But that’s just my own personal preference.

Defensive flying is like defensive driving. You need to be the one to control your situation and communicate and extend your down wind. It is okay to define and confirm what the other is doing. The cirrus guy obviously is nervous to configure and fly the cirrus at pattern speeds. He probably does not like the flight characteristics and profile of the cirrus a slow speeds and it makes him nervous enough to try to race you to final. So get out of his way. Besides that 210 with 10* on the flap and gear down is just like flying a 172 in pattern, so just extend. Also, I am a lucky to be a third generation GA pilot. I was taught by my dad to give way to T-storms by 40 miles due to outflows. Even at 25 miles a T-storm outflow can get you and bend or break you a/c.

I probably would have extended my downwind or executed a right 360 to join the left downwind again. You definitely had the right of way but when other people are making poor decision I tend to air in the side of caution.

Lots of folks out there want to have, "But I had the right of way", on their tombstone. I'm not giving anyone an opportunity to kill me. If anyone is going to kill me, it's going to be me or my mom. She did bring me into this world.

It's always more challenging when flying with a Brian

The Cirrus guy is 100% wrong on this one. Straight in only works when it would cause no traffic conflicts. He even says "traffic permitting", which it was not. Good Reference on the Watsonville crash. While tragic, it is a hard reminder of how much pilots need to follow the "see and avoid" method. Pretty wild to come blazing into the pattern and act entitled and annoyed when you were the one causing the conflict.

When the straight in says TRAFFIC PERMITTING that means he’ll yield to traffic in the pattern. You guys had the right away. That being said, if you knew he was “screaming in” I would have yielded to the jerk in order to not put myself in jeopardy.

Your willing agressive arrogance is dangerous. You speak in hindsight which is a gift of the living.

Again those cirrus pilots 😵‍💫💥

I suppose to each their own- if its more important to land with possible of a mid air collision or simply extending downwind to live another day. "out of glide range" is not an issue with a working engine compared to the option of colliding with a fast plane on short final. Here things worked out fine otherwise there's the possibility of watching this on Probable Cause youtube channel. my 2 cents on the field :-)

Another way to look at it is in a standard pattern and descent there is a 3 mile descent until touchdown. When you are abeam your touchdown point on the downwind you are 3 miles from touchdown( 1 mile downwind past the touchdown point, 1 mile base, and 1 mile final). If the Cirrus was on a 3 mile straight in that would be the same as the Cirrus being abeam the touchdown point. So to be turning to final at that point would be plenty of time. Also to the comments about how you should always do a go around if there is the slightest chance of a deviation, there is a higher chance of there being a deviation when an airplane is holding short of a runway while you are on final than an airplane being 2 miles behind you when you are on short final.

Better to yield and stay alive than to be right and dead. With you in a high wing and him in a low wing, you're just taking too big a risk to pull in front of him on final. In my not-so humble opinion.

Once that guy was inside 3 miles, no chance I would have turned.

If you saw the Cirrus driver on the ground, I hope he didn’t cop an attitude w you. Fly safe!

I’ve had this same thing happen but with 3 of us in the pattern. Forcing a straight in. Also recently had a cirrus enter in front of us on the crosswind(!) when we were climbing out after takeoff. It’s becoming the Wild West, I don’t know how other pilots are thinking it’s a good idea to muscle their way in and try to force pattern traffic out of their way. Or enter on whatever leg is convenient.

Better to use the pattern as a rule. Mind you, I've seen people get totally confused about just which pattern they're joining ... they'll cross midfield from the north for left downwind runway 8, but they're really on left downwind runway 26!

My opinion…straight in is fine when little or no traffic and longish well maintained runway. For shorter out of the way destinations I like to take a look first.

The thumbnail basically encapsulates the entire story

Honestly I don’t mind straight in landings as long as there is no traffic in the pattern. If there is traffic I go right into the pattern and wait my turn.

The cirrus was listening as he said “looking for traffic”… I think he was hoping to sneak in front of you…. I cannot fault either of you… because I enjoy watching you both so much… That being said …after that last pattern crash, I will be negotiating all of these…with clear Communication. “cirrus we are in the pattern …please enter the pattern or slow your approach to allow us to land…please reply”. If he says “nope” then I go around, but most pilots are cool and will slow down” Keep making content you are both great.

Australia seems to be very different with straight in approaches compared to the US, for here, Regulation 91.395 requires a pilot conducting a straight-in approach to give way to any other aircraft flying in the circuit pattern.

Jason, you said on Probable Cause with Dan that you would not teach this the way you flew it, why not? (Do as I say not as I do?) Furthermore, with my experience at Salinas, and Monterey airports there is no way a controller would allow down wind traffic No1 to land with traffic on a 3 mile straight in final approach. Be safe!

I've enjoyed watching many of your videos with you flying along with your family. I previously watched Dan Gryders channel where he interviewed Mr. Miller. I am a CFI/CFII/MEI and have been teaching since 1999 when I graduated from ERAU; additionally in my 20th year with the USAF as an instructor / evaluator in various airframes. I have to say I was disappointed in the hazardous attitudes displayed by Mr. Miller in his interview with Mr. Gryder. As instructors, we are ambassadors - we have a greater responsibility than others in cultivated a culture of safety. This needs to be a part of everything we do from personal flying to teaching. The perceived arrogance that was exuded during the interview was not the type of personality I want teaching any potential pilot. The inability to admit that the actions taken were not the "most conservative" and did in fact pose a hazard and increased both of your risk. We have to be able to take criticism and learn - in the military and at ERAU we debrief each sortie/flight thoroughly and always try to learn from every flight - without arguing or justifying our actions. Just from the Gryder interview Mr. Miller was - "Anti Authority - didn't want to listen to Gryder/dismissed his input and justified actions by arguing the validity of the straight in; Impulsive - decided to make a short approach without verifying the position of the aircraft on final before making base/final turn; Invulnerable - accidents happen to others not me I always make short approaches whether I know the aircraft on finals position or not; Macho - with a high level of confidence in his ability he took an unneccessary risk by not visually verifying the position of the aircraft on final. These are 4 of the 5 hazardous pilot attitudes we all preach against. Hopefully yall both can learn from this and kudos for putting yourselves out there for criticism. But don't take it as criticism take it as Learning points and takeaways from a thorough debrief.

We have people flying straight in approaches at our un-towered airport quite often. Right into the middle of student circuits. They always seem to think their IFR practice approaches negates any need to follow VFR patterns. Even though they are jerks, I will almost always extend and let them get in front because I would rather not get run into, also 9 out of 10 times they cancel their approach and don't touchdown.

Straight ins are a big NO NO NO NO. It usually just take 5-6 minutes extra to set yourself for a nice entry to the pattern. You MUST spend that extra time, there is just no excuse.

Strange airports no straight in ever. Home drome usually will fly straight in unless there is traffic in the pattern either visually or on the radio. Of course having a tower is preferable but still not a guarantee against potential conflict. Welcome home!

I was taught at non-towered airports assume there is traffic without radios and fly the pattern. In this case, the Cirrus pilot knew there was traffic. Straight-ins increase risk. conscientious pilots always look to reduce risk.

And no one had a problem with Jason ballooning that landing? Maybe unstabilized because he rushed to get down. 🤔 Great series Eric, and thanks for sharing! We can all learn from this.

Pilots who do straight in approaches when other aircraft are in the pattern irritate the crap out of me. I fly into Catalina Island occasionally and I don't know how many times I have called out that I am on downwind and right after I do, I hear another pilot call out that he is on straight in for the same runway. Catalina has a specific pattern and it's rude and dangerous to ignore other aircraft who are doing the right thing. Great video as usual.

This is a great case that defines the difference between good and bad airmanship. The Cirrus put his needs ahead of years by cutting ahead of the pattern. Not necessarily unsafe, but not very good manners.

Here in Australia there are very fuel actual rules when it comes to the pattern/circuits, but straight in approaches must yield/give way to all other traffic in the pattern. Everything else is a recommendation.

DON'T DO STRAIGHT INS AT NON-TOWERED AIRPORTS. Just don't. If you say "traffic permitting," that means you will yield to traffic entering the pattern or traffic that is already established in the pattern. Cirrus man did not follow his own "traffic permitting" call.

Yeah, you guys should have extended your downwind

Seems like an unsafe decision to cut in front of the Cirrus

KSGU is non towered with Skywest regional jets constantly coming straight in from the north. As a result it is pretty common practice to have folks coming straight in especially when there is light to no other traffic. I don’t think this is a one size fits all conversation but from what I saw on this video my decision would have been 100% to have extended downwind for the Cirrus.

Been cut off and passed and cut off by numerous cirrus pilots in traffic patterns multiple airports. Once turning final had one pass over me less than 1/2 mile from touch down me in a 206

In Canada you can only do a straight in at uncontrolled airports if there is an MF with the unicom providing a traffic advisory.

Very disappointed in the decisions and attitude you and Jason exhibited but am very grateful you published this content, I do think it will spark needed conversations. Jason's defense of his decision while on his call with Dan Gryder is disappointing, he explicitly states he "Would Not" teach this to his students -- case CLOSED, it was a bad decision (rules for thee but not for me), just own up to it and learn! I truly would have liked to see their handling of this same scenario if the traffic on final announced "student solo on 5 mile final" rather that "Cirrus on Five Mile Final". It was like "Cirrus" triggered their egos... Sad man...

Straight is fine 7 out of 10 times in my experience. The problem is 3 out of 10 is a high number. So I am always fully prepared to enter the traffic pattern for any reason at all without any hesitation about it. Certainly no entitlement to straight ins should exist.

It's clear that these cocky weirdos are abusing the system by ignoring courtesy and best practices to push other traffic out of their way. The FAA has to step-in and require all airmen (not on emergency) enter any existing patterns at uncontrolled fields. This has to stop.

Another great video. Editing can certainly change the perception and get some pilots feathers all ruffled, like that Dan guy. Makes them be able to build their narrative and allow them to take the bully pulpit. Careful story telling to advocate for one's own position without being defensive is another learning point I've taken from all this drammer. Keep up the collabs!

If there is traffic in the area, I do the pattern. I try to ask other traffic where as I get near crossing over the airport so that I can space myself.

Hate to say but not untypical for a Cirrus driver. He should have maneuvered for traffic pattern but when faced with that situation, I would have extended downwind as to not risk a potential midair or near miss. I have see many a Cirrus driver come blasting straight in at 120K.

I would have extended, but I also would have said something like xxxxxx willing to extend, is there a reason that you need the straight in today? Listened to predictable continuation of hazardous attitude and then confirmed I was extending

Nice flight, I’m not sure why you didn’t use the best tool at your disposal. The P210 loves the low flight levels it goes faster gives you more glide distance and you probably would have been on top of the overcast with the cells clearly visible. Thats just my opinion you guys did fine good decisions.

Given that the conflict between pattern approaches and straight in approaches increases the probability of mid air collisions, why are straight in approaches EVER permitted?

My instructor many, many landings ago was very vocal about straight in approaches on non-controlled airports. Basically NO.

They are called patterns for a reason. Patterns are repeatable & patterns are predictable. Patterns expand & contract naturally to accommodate new arrivals based on every one in the pattern having the same situational knowledge & goals. Pilots calling a three mile straight in are a collision risk to the plane in the pattern on base. The base pilot has little information to base the closure rate of the straight in (as your cirrus driver demonstrated by “slowing down” and as the Cessna learned as that twin clipped him at 3 miles a minute at pattern altitude).