Ford 335 engine family 351C, 400, 351M 

Deep Purple Highway Star?

I had a 1972 Cougar base model with the 351C 2V automatic. It would spin the tires as long as you kept your foot on the floor. My 60 year old mom borrowed it one day. She floored it to get across a busy intersection and spun the tires all the way across. She told me she went back to see the mark. She loved the car and was sad when I traded it for a Duster 340. I'd choose the 1975 Thunderbird and the 1975 F150.

Windsor and Modified/400 crankshafts do not interchange without a lot of modification. Back before stroker cranks became common used to use a 400 crank in a Windsor. Was a good bit of work. Counterweights have to be turned down, and some machine work has to be done at the back and front of the crank. Would need a lot of mallory metal to balance.

I had a 1977 F-250 4x4 Hi Boy with a 400/4speed manual, that truck wasn’t fast, but it would pull a trailer better than any truck I’ve had other than my Ram/Cummins. People like to hate the 400, but I loved mine.

Can't wait for the Australian Cleveland episode, very interesting engines. Australia only produced a 302C and the 351C in the Cleveland family. They were produced at the Geelong plant in Victoria. I have 3 vehicles fitted with 302 Cleveland's and have own 8 vehicles over the years fitted with the 302C 2v and 1 with a 351C 2V. If you need any info on the 302 engine or 351 engine I do have some info I can send you.

My favorite Ford engine episode thus far; these are the engines popularly used in many of the cars I regularly worked on in my first decade of wrenching. My father had a ‘79 Lincoln Continental Collector Series with the 400M in which the crank shaft actually broke!!! We bought a used 400M which was in a 1975 full-size wagon from our local dismantler and I installed that as a replacement. Worked just fine for many years. Thank you Jay!

It’s amazing that we become attached to things simply because of random nostalgic memories. I developed an attachment to the 400 engine for no other reason than the fact that my parents had a 1974 LTD brougham with a 400. I was 10 at the time. It was their FIRST EVER New car. They kept it until I Became a driver. So it’s engrained in my memory. I even remember the fact that I could floor it , and it would shift out of 1st at 40mph. I remember I was able to get it to 110 mph before I chickened out. I remember it was one of few cars that could spin on takeoff. Of course my parents never knew their 16-18 year old son did that in their car 😂 . Anyway, i somehow feel a bit personally attacked when people criticize the 400. I know it makes no sense 🤷🏾‍♂️

Don’t forget the 302 Cleveland, it is a 335 series as well. By the way you aren’t rounding off, the bore is 4 inches and the strokes were 3,31/2 and 4 inches. The 302C used 2V ports with closed chambers.

Yes Cleveland production started in Australia in 1973 and the Ford Australia Geelong Casting Centre cast 302 Cleveland's and 351 Cleveland's from then untill the last Aussie Clevelands in 1985/6 in Aussie F100 to F350s and 1983/4 for Aussie Falcons , Fairlanes , Fairmonts, and LTDs.

When I was a kid, my Dad had a '77 Gran Torino. I'll take that.

An engine family to consider doing is the Ford 'Pinto' 4 cyl SOHC. It was used in a lot of US/Canadian Ford models, including at first the Pinto.

I remember the 65,and newer Olds V-8 engine family used the same timing gear integral cast housing and the fuel pump mounted to the housing with the flat metal cover behind the. Fuel pump.

Although there was no direct replacement, the new for ‘82 3.8L 90 degree V6 shares design with the C and M motors; canted valves. The 385 series BBF was discontinued in ‘79 in passenger cars and redone that year for trucks until phased out in the 90s. External balanced, and new casting cores. The later blocks are very high quality compared to pre ‘79 castings IMO.

Hi Jay! It's too bad the 351C wasn't able to stay around longer. Along with the Boss 429 Semi-Hemi and the Ford 427 cammer, it was one of Ford's most technically advanced engines. Finally Ford had something to compete with the 350 Chev, and they let it wither on the vine. Shame. WYR's #1 Lincoln, Baby! #2 1977 Ford Truck. My daddy drove a '77 extra cab LONG BED. That was one LONG truck! Was a baby puke tan color. It had the 300 cubic inch six in it, and was EASY to work on! Lots of memories of that truck! Never did drive it, though. Was a three-speed manual!

This was a particularly good engine family video, Jay. Well done. I once had a '73 Cougar XR-7 convertible with the 351C (2V). That car, even with its extra weight, would really move! I've also driven a '73 XR-7 hardtop with the 351 CJ (AKA "Q" Code), which was a real barn burner for the year. One thing that everyone neglects to mention about a lot of V-8 engines during this period; even though horsepower ratings were down, torque ratings were still usually pretty good. And I'll take the '78 Cougar XR-7 and the '82 F-150.

The 335 series and the Windsor series still had the same bore spacings cuz the first kind of valve head on a small block came out on a 302

Two stories: my best friend had a 70 Mach 1 w/ 351C-4v. It was a pretty fast car. He rebuilt the engine to Boss 351 specs, including the Boss ca & solid lifters. Now, *that* was a seriously fast car! (Altho, a 440 Mopar blew us away, making us feel like the brakes were on). The 351M (the M is for Modified) and 400 engines were real dogs. Mom had a 400-2v in her 72 LTD, and it was gutless. I did have a customer with a 72 LTD wagon with 400, and it was astonishingly fast. WYR= any of the trucks. None of the cars would even fit in my garage!

I worked on a Lincoln that had a 430 in an it was a nightmare trying to find parts... ended up 460 swapping it ....Iv worked on the 430 an the 352.... wired stuff

I have a 1978 Ford LTD ll with the Sport Appearance Package. So I'll keep that over the 78 Cougar. For the truck, a I'll choose the 1979 F-150. My LTD ll has the Cleveland based 351M and it suits me fine...as a cruiser. Even though it's low on the horsepower, it has plenty of torque. It ain't a drag racer by any means.

Would You Rather 1: 78 Mercury Cougar XR7.

What I find really cool is how you could order these engines from the factory to the extent demonstrated here back in the day. Car builders selling to people that wanted to modify their engines and treating them accordingly. Name a car company that does that today.

I had a 351C in a Torino wagon and a 400 in an LTD. Both of them were smooth running engines with great torque. Gas mileage wasn't great.

WYR: 1979 Lincoln Mark V, 1982 F150. I have to say I’m learning a lot from this series.

The term "malaise era" is bit of a misnomer. Yes, mixing exhaust with a leaner air/fuel mixture did rob some power. Things are always less efficient when government gets involved. But the main reason for the term is many compared power stats, '70 vs '71, unaware. There was enough power if you selected the right vehicle. Quality is where the industry failed us the most. You could not go wrong with any of the 351s. For all the struggles that experimentation the malaise era brought, look how it's paid off in power and mostly in efficiency.

75 Lincoln 82 F 150 351 Was a good engine but I feel the 350 Chevy probably was way more popular.

I would take the 1979:Mark V. My first experience with the 335s was a 351M (for Mediocre) in my parents 1975 Mercury Montego wagon. I’ll give credit to it in that it had decent torque, but either the timing chain broke or oil pump froze screwing up the distributor. It got traded quick after it got out of the shop. My dad never did say what was the problem but indicated they wanted to drop in another motor. May have had something to do with a 16 year old manual shifting and such but the 335s did occasionally have those aforementioned problems. I bought a 71 Cougar XR7 for $500 in 89. It had an H code Cleveland. I added dual exhaust and a cheap aftermarket air cleaner with double stacked elements. It was not a Boss or Q code but it ran pretty well considering it was high miles. It would scratch 2nd up until it got close to 150k miles and the FMX, which had allegedly been rebuilt at some point, started showing its age. Nevertheless it was still running and driving when I sold it. The H code with an automatic in a Cougar would get around 14 mpg on regular. I remember in a couple of occasions when the tranny forgot to shift it’s self into 2nd when my foot was glued to the floor and it revved past 6k. It was still pulling and didn’t come apart.

The 335 engine family was introduced in 1969 for the 1970 model year. In 1969, if you got a 351 it was a Windsor. Right, the "M" is for modified. The 400 c.i. V8 always a big-block bolt pattern on the rear and when the 351M was introduced it also had the big block bolt pattern. As a side note, the 300 c.i. inline 6 also had a big block bolt pattern(big block refers to the 385 series. Usually the 351C-4v used a C-6 automatic. Because all 351W and 351C shared the same bolt pattern with the 302, they used a special C6 known as the small-case C6. The 302's came with the smaller C4, but we would swap them out for the small-case C6. We would have to modify the drive shaft. My parents special ordered the new 1974 1/2 Gran Torino Elite, with the 400 c.i. V8. Yes, it had lots of torque and did decent burnouts, but because of the square engine design, it didn't rev as well as it's 351 brothers. Never had a problem pulling my Ford 302 V8 powered ski boat, but acceleration was another story. I had to plan my move if I intended to pass another vehicle. All those '75 Ford cars were turds and the largest engine you could get was the 400M. I'd go for the Lincoln Mark V. It had atleast another year of that body style, so you just change the Mark V emblems to Mark VI and nobody would be the wiser. It was about the same as when someone would put the Lexus ES 250 or ES 300 emblems on their Toyota Camry's. lol

How about an episode of the F head jeep. Came in both 4 & 6 cyl. I worked in an automotive machine shop ( Napa) in the 70's and 80's. Saw a lot of goofy engines. Thanks for the video.

71 mach 1 m code 4 sp car 351 have had 40 years is wild animal 😊

You know I want the Thunder"chicken" !!

It's about time you covered this underrated engine. I asked you to cover this before you even did engine episodes. I had one of these engines in my 1970 Montego. I would usually run into a guy with a 70 Torino on my way home from work at midnight. We would race up the avenue for about 2 miles. I usually one, but it was close. I grew up, sold it for a beetle so I would have no temptation to drive crazy. I'll take the 77 150. Thanks.

Would You Rather 2: 77 Ford F-150. It can still run on regular fuel (no catastrophic converter).

Second because I was watching the 6cyl “Milage Maker” Ford video

The Ford 390 HP 1961, and how easy it was to adapt the parts to a later 390 or the 410 FE 1966-67 Mercury.

That's a new one on me! I didn't know the 351M used or could use Windsor parts. I also wasn't aware that it was actually a 352, rounded off. WYR: I'll take all the pickups, and you can keep the cars. 😊 Toodles, everyone! Until next time.

I could never understand why the 351W was so different than the 351C ! It made finding - ordering and replacing parts more difficult at least for me ! But i prob would take the 351C over the W !

The real meaning of the "M" in these engines is "mistake" 🤣 I've heard from several sources that Ford needed more basic 351's than 'Windsor' could make and that upcoming pollution standards required something new, both of which don't really make sense. But whatever, the "M" series came along and just added more confusion to the 351 game. One major difference between the 351C and the other 351s was main bearing size; the Cleveland had smaller main journals which was better for high RPM's, as the 3" mains in the others saw a bearing surface speed pushing the limits of what plain bearings could do which limits their redline, and spun mains are a known issue when you rev them really fast. Relatively few Clevelands were performance versions- most were 2V grocery-getters with 2-bolt main caps and tons of 'fake' performance versions exist. Those (and even the 351M) can be built to give some impressive numbers, but the 4-bolt 351C will always be king of this class of engines. Some later Ford 'crate' motors had the "C" main journal size done with the "W" block, and those can rival most 351C builds. The "M" series did well enough for it's intended uses but fuel mileage was always poor with these engines. On WYR I once had a 75 T-turd, bought on the cheap when I was broke. Mine had a 351W 2V, a small trunk, a smaller fuel tank, and a tiny back seat in a too-large car. It's only virtue was a smooth ride with lots of legroom up front. I wouldn't choose it or any of the others; they are all turds. On 2, I like the looks of the 79 best, but they had plastic grilles which to me puts them out of the 'classic' era. NTT "Highway Star" is one of those songs which will live forever- a great choice from you.

71 Torino GT 351c 4V 4 speed premium fuel

One minor point of weirdness, the 351C has the Windsor (SBF) bellhousing, while the 400 and 351M have the 385 (BBF) bellhousing.

Very good video thank you

First pick 78 Cougar XR7, used to be a lot of them around back then, and the 77-79 T birds Second the truck I used to own before rust consumed it from the roof, down 79 F 250 300 six 4 speed manual. Paid $7200.00 for that one at age 22 drove it 24 years 200,000 miles then bought its replacement in 2003. Engine suggestions GMC V6 truck engines and International 6 and 8 cylinder engines.

Mercury (though really not a fan of any of them), 1975 F-150 Spng sounded like Led Zeppelin Black Dog to start, but on further listening, no. A neighbor had this T-bird for years. The leather seats were covered and remained pristine white, while the body slowly rusted away.

Well done !

What’s better for a 79 F100: a quick 351c or a built up torquey 400? Or maybe a 400 built for high hp?

🥝✔️ Best, most honest delivery on the best subject matter in the world! Great work. 12 out of 10 😂😉

The Cougar XR7 and the 77 F150.

still have my favorite 1978 f 250 with a 400. don't understand why the bothered to make the 351m -it weighs about the same and gets about the same gas mileage with less power and torque

79 Mark V for me in the first scenario. 82 F150 in second scenario only because I was born in 1982. Otherwise it would be a four way tie. 😊

If the 460 Ford is called a Lima engine because it is Cast in Lima, the 351 Windsor is called a Windsor because it is Cast in Windsor, and the Cleveland was cast in Cleveland and called Cleveland them how Come the M engine that was cast in Michigan is not called a Michigan. If you follow the pattern The M should be for Michigan. The M block has MCC Cast right into the Block.

10:06 I am going to say that is a Ford with the chrome headlight bezels from a 1978. The 1979's were black.

WYR: Round one - any other them. Round two - 1980 Ford F150, I had one with the inline six, great truck. And hey - lay off the Thunderbird, some of us are sensitive 😂. Seriously - thank you as always, great info! ~ Chuck

I would rather have the 74 ranchero with 351 Cleveland. Oh wait. I already have one and drive daily..

I still don't understand why Ford did the 351M instead of just continuing the 351C. Obviously with CAFE standards, engines larger than the 302 couldn't be used in cars after 1981 or so, until port fuel injection was developed.

10:00 Any Thunderturd. Thanks.. And F150 82 351M thanks

351c good . 351 and 400 slugs bad emissions. 302 and 351 W ok .

RU-vid.....WHY DO YOU INSIST ON INTERRUPTING THESE VIDEOS MID-WORD BY THESE USELESS ADS!!!!!

Good video, but being nitpicky there was no 427 CJ, it was a 428 CJ. Technically a 427 was actually a 425 and the 428 was actually a 427, so there is that. Good info otherwise.

I didn’t know the 400 was available in that generation Thunderbird. I thought they all had either the 429 or 460. I think they were available in the next generation foe a while.

Mercury Cougar -82 F150

I think the 400 gets an undeserved bad rap. Twenty year old me proved that they could regularly run three quarts low on oil without any issues. When it started to tick (usually every two weeks), you put three quarts in. Good as new.😏

Hate to say it but have to go with the "TURD" 1st and Lincon my second choice.

rincoln Mark V, 75 F150 are my rathers

I meant to add a few more fun facts,the 351 Cleveland 4 ,and 2 barrel both used the small block Ford pattern,the same as the 240,300,late 65 and newer 289,302 ,and 351W.351/400M used the 485 Bell housing pattern,which is the same pattern as the 429/460 . One more fun fact the 351/400 M used the block and heads,the 400 is a stroked 351.The Mark V ,the F-250, another great job Jay.

WYR: All of them. I'd put the Ford 460 engine in a 1968 Ford F100 Ranger. Why not?

let do yr 68 mopar 383s. we got two barrels and four barrels, lo-po and hi-po's. thanks

The RX-7 .

1979 F150

75 Bird would need to have an emissions delete. 76 was much better.

1974 F159

I would like all of them

1978Cougar does it for me and i ll take any of the trucks , trucks are trucks

Ah late to the party!

The 77 f 150

Seriously, none of them!

I had a 73 thunder Chicken... 🤔 Long Long Car 😂 rode good 👍 My Uncle had an 1976 F - 130 ... With a 351 Mistake Never ran when it rained 🤷 After 1963 year model I'm done with Ford Trucks !!!!!!! Enjoy your day Happy Motoring ✌️🤠

The markv

Question what is your problem with saying thunder bird? your did it twice?

ps have a 81 f 150 with a 400 cam headers and carb with highway gears tf t don t want you to pass me you won t

The 351M and 400 were junk,could not keep a bottom end in them.Came with bad crankshafts from the factory

Had a 351-2v, what a piece of crap!

First

One of the worse engine family ford built