Ford 351 Cleveland Myths And Truths 

Dick jhonson racing use to lengthen the drain back holes in the lifter Valley its a another trick that might be worth mentioning. This was used on a falcon that weighed 1.45 tone and did Bathurst 1000 and the blocks never failed. The biggest issues Australian Turing car drivers had with Cleveland's was oil surge caused having a front sump with only 4 litre capacity ( bigger sump with baffling fixed that). Valve springs and rocker arms past 7 thousands was an issue but more of a problem of that time ( spring technology and the change in rules allowing roller rockers be fitted fixed that issue) and last but not least over heating which was fixed with better and bigger radiators and and making shore all air was bleed out of the cooling system ( some people put air bleeds at high point on front of both heads) as for blocks failing and cracking and splitting never happened they made anywhere from 400 hp to 550 hp lugging around a cars that weigh 1300 kg to 1600 kg spinning from 6500 to 7500 rpm on sprint races to endurance races using 2 or 4 bolt mains never a failed block so people saying there week is just bull shit. Keep it cooled and we'll oiled and it will go hard all day which is no different from any other American/Australian V8

You are indeed correct that Ford never made a small block or big block. 260, 289, 302 and 351W were simply known as the Ford 90° V8. FE was Ford Engine. MEL was Mercury Edsel Lincoln. FT was Ford Truck. 335 Series was Cleveland, 400 and 351M. 400 was by itself and the Modified came in with a destroked 400. 400s were the only engines offered with 3 different bellhousing flanges (small 90° flange, dual small flange AND 385 Series flange and straight 385 Series flange).

Thank you so much for clearing up some of these myths Tim. Trying to spread the word to get people to watch very informative. Some of the constant back and forth on the forums does get overwhelming. Keep up the great work.

I'm a ford nut from Australia love ha content awesome.thankyou

You should change the title of the video to, "Ten Minutes Of Mystifying Name Drops."

Talk to the pro Aussies about the Clevo.. we got the yank tooling in about 72, created a 302 Cleveland as well.

Ok small block implies 4.5 or less bore spacing, big block implies greater than 4.5 bore spacing. Same goes for every manufacturer. Ford made multiple small blocks and still does. Its a semantics argument. Important bit the Windsor, Cleveland, and M engines all share a bore space & headbolt pattern... but not much else.

One of the best diamonds in the rough Ford made. With the right work they’re killers.

No BS & straight to the point. Love your honesty brother. God Bless ya. Got 82 400m stock RV engine. 75k miles. I'm wanting to to build a TMeyer version 412 hp 500tq for 85 f250 XLTLariet 4sp 4x4. Although a 5 or 6 sp manual be a bit sweeter

Small Bellhousing bolt pattern will be smallblock! Large Bellhousing bolt pattern Bigblock!

Would love to see interviews with Rusty and Darrin!!!!!

When you have had a hard day working and you love cars...your channel is awesome. I love to prop up my feet and watch anything on cars...especially engine work. I'd love to see anything on shelby gt. (Hint Hint). 😉

I’m a CHEVROLET man and will DIE one. Mainly a small block CHEVROLET guy. But I do enjoy your videos sometimes. Cleveland’s are kinda cool I guess. Yep same with Chevy blocks 2 bolt blocks are stronger in the main webbing than a 4bolt GM block.

Hello Tim , love your passion . I always loved the Cleveland and still do. 30 years ago i had a 351 Cleveland in a Australian Ford Fairmont, it was mild.Car weighed 3520lbs reved it to 7400rpm hydraulic isky cam 10.5 comp , std rods Holley street 2v intake very reliable done thousands of klms . Car ran 13.00 at 107mph 30 years ago , remember this was a street car .Anyway keep it up .

After owning and building Cleveland's for over 40 years early Cleveland's are now 50 years old & are all past there use buy date rust & corrosion in the water galleries adding to the thin cylinder wall thickness plus most have been bored 30th there now only good for coffee tables the only decent Australian block is the XD & XE block commonly known as a pillow block due to the extra metal in the casting between the welsh plugs if your lucky enough to find a standard bore BUT if you want to build a big a big horsepower Cleveland 600 to 900hp Dart block is the only option & build a Clevour Competition engines or Dandy engines in Victoria Australia build the best motors in Australia.

I always had more wear on the 3/7 journal even with restrictiors between the crank & cam but i just changed them once a year. I kick big chevys in their pride with these little engines when i was a kid back in the 70s. My boss runs a 15 to 1 boss 302 on the dirt and laps the field of chevy big blocks. It is hilarious. It sounds different from anything else and turns 10,000 lap after lap. Everyone thinks he cheats.

I know from experience on a 70 351 4v engine or later one major weakness is the multi groove valve stem retainer locks slipping under high rpm. This is corrected on the boss heads. I had a 71 Torino GT with a 351 4v moroso restrictor kit try 11:1 pistons cloyes roller chain crane fireball hydraulic cam torker intake 1” spacer with a Holley spread bore center squirted ,Mallory dual point and hooker 2.5 super comp headers and electric fuel pump in trunk. C-6 small stall and 391 rears. The car was white and pinstriped by the mad stripper in Decatur Ga. My Dad worked for Carey Paul Ford as shop foreman and this was my first car. It was 1980 he bought it from Brim Paul the older of Mr Paul’s sons and it had 62000 miles and was a very nice car. I went to Rockdale County High School in Conyers Ga. we used to hang out at Salem Gate plaza and pick up races. I won more than I. Ever lost I beat 440s,396s you name it. People always say that that car sounded so good the way it pinged through the headers into the factory duals. My name is Donnie Jones and it was the time of my life. How I never got a ticket for street racing is beyond me. There were a lot of bad cars in Conyers at that time .I went in the Army and when I ets got married had kids. But I have had 2 427 galaxies some old trucks ,Broncos and the such.

What about cylinder sleeves? My 72 M block ate a #4 piston. So I would be super lucky if it wasn't cracked. But I'm betting on it cracked the cylinder wall. I just want 500 horsepower and a 5spd stick. Just a little weekend fun.

The lifter bushings in a 351c are not necessary as long as the lifter bores are not damage due to scoring or rust pitting. If the bores are not damaged, oil does not escape between the lifter and block like everyone thinks. The oil hole in the lifter itself is the problem. Since Clevelands have priority oiling to the lifter first, the oil holes in the lifter allow too much oil to be pumped to the rockers on the right side. I have discovered using a custom pushrod with a .020 oil hole will help keep the rockers from receiving to much oil and helps boost the pressure. My 351c prepped in this way holds 20-25 psi idling and 50 psi at 2000 rpm using a light weight 10w30 oil. Many 6500 and 7000 rpm shifts and the stock type .020 under rod bearings look good as new. I have the other typical oiling mods like restrictors to the cam bearings and external oil line feeding the block behind the intake from the front oil port. I am not a fan of lifter bushings. If the finish on the bushing isn't perfect, you can run into problems with the lifters sticking. If the oil hole isn't located in the bushing in the exact correct position for your particular set of lifters, you will have plenty of oil pressure and not a drop of oil getting to the rockers because the hole in the lifter never aligns with the hole in the bushing to receive oil. Save yourself the headache. Lifter bushings should only be used to repair damaged bores.

Dont kid us 351 Cleveland was nascar from the factory

One thing that bothers me with car guys. They don't even know about the marine and industrial side of their favorite engine makers. How many Ford fans know Ford used D00E 1970 351W heads on marine 302's thru 1976? That's right, 351W heads on a 302 from the factory. Mine were cast Oct '75. Reside on my 302 in my '83 Ranger 4x4. 30 years in the marine business as a mechanic, it is a parallel universe. Sadly, there were no 335 marine engines

I just picked up a 69 Torino (3 on the tree), with a 351c. I'm looking to learn more about this engine. Common issues - pro's and con's alike. Any advice you would have I would find very valuable. I'm trying to jump into light speed, so I'm looking to cruise and dependability is my goal as I intend to enjoy during the spring, summer, and fall months. Thank you in advance for any help/advice you give.

G’Day from the land down under 🇦🇺🇦🇺. May I ask what make and model those alloy heads were on the engine behind you in this video. Cheers Bloke, Andavagoodweekend 👍😎👍

When the block gets filled do you use Embrco 885 mortar or Moroso hard block? Tia

They all make power with a little elbow grease and money and a little knowledge. Don’t even really need money to go fast just old school poor man knowledge. I’ve gone as fast as 6:60s In the 1/8th with factory iron vortec small block Chevrolet heads and a flattappet cam. It isn about what you have it’s about the knowledge you have. That was also in a 3700 pound Chevy truck NA

Awesome video, I've always been a huge Cleveland fan!! I'm actually building a 70 Torino GT Convertible right now with a 4bbl Cleveland. It's great to clear up all the myths about this engine. When it comes to a Cleveland there are plenty.

I run a stock ford 66 six banger oil filter which turns oil filter 90 degrees. Ford racing sells one or 460 truck 4x4...that's better than a remote oil filter and the extra lines etc....LOL

As to being small block, Cleveland heads fit a 302/289,351W, same bore spacing! So small block?!

I'm a firm believer in Kenne-Bell. Jim Bell to be exact. He is a engine Engineer. He made this mini news paper things called Kenne-Bell news letter Buick news. One of the best articles he wrote and did alot of testing on? Oil pressure and volume. It's about having the right volume of oil to a certain pressure. Look at a Dry sump pump. They don't vary in pressure or volume but constant pressure to a certain volume. Deburring the oiling system is something every should really think about. Look in to Jack Roush back when he was campaigning Mark Martin. Oil control was his number one priority. He controlled every aspect of oil, from pressure to volume to where it drained at. I love this video because it explains alot.

Sure miss Bob he knew what the fastest smaller block ever made was and how to make it even better.

Your oil system comments can be applied to all engines. It seems like it is getting to be a lost art.. I have taken apart a few 'built' LS series engines that have zero prep work done to them and being built by big fancy 'speed shops' that do it all... suspension, tires &wheels, dyno tuning, fabrication, etc. They buy a forged kit and ready to assemble heads and call it blueprinted...

I'm also impressed with how many replys you make to comments. I saw comments on the FE. Ford engine. Ford Edsel. As far as I know there is not a definitive answer on that. On high output oil pumps. I guess if you're not seeing the bearings get oil washed, distributor gear or cam gear wearing out, or breaking a oil pump drive. It's not too much flow or pressure. Of course I have read many articles from builders that say it could rob power being a parasitic load. Great videos. You have passion for that mid size mighty Ford and it shows.

Tim, Loved the newest video. You won’t ever get an argument from me, that’s for sure ! Please corect me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think you’ve ever done a video on solid roller camshafts (specifically for drag racing a Cleveland). While I’m at it, what about one strictly on shaft rockers ? I know you are more than likely busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest right now, just saying. I would really like to see that. I think that would really help me on mine, as well as other guys.

hey guy's looking for a SVO manifold like the one on this video if anyone can help would be extremely appreciated located in Sydney Please let me know

I think the 351 Ford Cleveland is the most beautiful engine FMC ever made. If it hadn't been for the EPA, the Cleveland mill could have been the most efficient ci/hp ever made. I've got one in my Cobra kit car and it rocks. I look for 5.0 mustangs to battle with.

Just wanted to give an update on the Fairmont: I currently have a 30 yard dumpster in the yard and have about got the car dug out. I will hold on to it all the way up until we are ready to go to market with our property. That will be around mid spring. I will email some pics soon! Awesome news about Rusty! I look forward to that content!

Thanks Dragboss!! You forgot one myth tho. Chevy engines can make same power cube to cube. Lol. I enjoy your videos. Thanks again. Say hello to Family for me.

Now I can not wait for your new pro line of videos, old time racers made stuff work kids couldn't imagine how to do with the old stuff because they just buy and bolt today. So much good information on your platform.

Hi volume makes tork lo volume makes quick reves

WORD my Australian neigbour. Great to see world wide message tribe of crazy rat roster, Predator and Tunnel Rammed Clevelands with pillow blocks and all manner of weird factory and Total Performance parts. Keep up your awesome work Mr H.:-)

I remember ford calling them engine family

i like the valve cover display on the tool box. i dont think they make the gold covers any more? do they?

These Cleveland videos always forget the longest produced Cleveland the 302 Cleveland produced from 1975 to 1984/5 , best heads closed chamber 2V on all 2 barrel and 4 barrel engines !

Looks like I’m on borrowed time....408 Cleveland dyno 604hp & 552trq at the crank. No block fill or oil modifications besides using a 9qt pan. Street motor with 600-700 miles. Ran 10.38 going through traps at 7100 in a 3100 pound Maverick

I call it a small block just to piss the Chevy guys off. Besides Lee Shepards crew used a big block Chevy to try and get around Gliddens Cleveland.

Man those rods and pistons are a work of art; a thing of beauty! (Without the blower) I found the power was definitely in the compression, more exhaust duration, with as much advance timing in the ignition that I could get away with, along with advancing the cam mentioned previously. Mine had the stock 4bbl heads remember. I ran 10.5:1 back in the day when premium gas (Ethyl) was on the way out, and unleaded (white lawnmower gas) was coming in. I'd buy bottles of lead at auto part stores for no knock while cruising. But if the orange (both gm and mopar) wanted to make a play, I'd stop by the airport and get a tank of 100 LL (low lead) aviation fuel. I lived in a small town and they knew me, so I'd pull out on the tarmac and they'd fill me up at something like 4 bucks a gallon (the stuff is a pretty blue, and smells good too!). Wish I would have known some of those secrets you're sharing. Did my own blueprinting. I'd turn it over 7,000 for the heads to work their magic. Even turning it that tight, the engine never blew even with 2 bolt mains. I did shatter about every piston ring and some pistons when I ran a small pulley on the blower. When i gave friends a ride they were definitely impressed, I was too for a while before limping home blue smoke covering the neighborhood. Sometime I'll tell you how I hid a nitrous system on the 'stang that only a few knew about.

Best runner block 71 cj

There is a problem with your first Myth , The Boss 302 has 351 Cleveland heads ! Do 335 heads fit small block fords ? Yes.. Do big block heads fit small blocks ? NOPE ! Will a C4 from a 302 bolt to a Cleveland ? Yes ..(Had that combo in my pro street car) Does a C4 bolt to a 385 series big block ? NOPE ! In Ford Land you have Small blocks, Big blocks ,and FE big blocks (old school big block Ford).and the Midland smog motors..Conclusion : The 351 Cleveland is a small block with BIG ASS heads ! Like the Boss 302 only with a little more stroke...

OMG..."Don't debate it...just move on"... Nothing but the greatest respect for you and what your do'n Tim...but... The 351-C / 351-M/ 400-M are all under the general umbrella of "Small-Block" Fords... Hello...the heads interchange..., they have the same bore centerlines..., we were installing 302 stroker cranks in the clevelands 40+ years ago... What Ford Motor Company wants to call them is meaningless...as well as any one person's opinion... If your a professional race engine builder or a competitor building for a particular class/sanctioning body... What matters is what THEY say it is... And from everything I've seen...NHRA...NASCAR...and the multitudes of short tracks and drag strips with their own rules have all classified the 351-C as a "Small-Block" And have always thus run pretty much under the same set of rules as say a Chevrolet small block...and let me tell ya...they were not to be taken lightly... Cylinder Walls... Sonic thickness checked every one of em...the less you bored them the better... Yup you could fill 'em...and now run your .060 plus over...but you have now lost the ability for the coolant to keep oil temps under control...think about it... Filling a block starts a series of unforeseen problems most are not ready to tackle...much less even identify... Done posted cylinder walls too... I doubt very much those pistons would get you 13 to 1 with a production chambered 351... The 351-C "Effective Dome Volume" wasn't very much given the large valve diameters...massive cuts down the piston deck...and the fire slot cut right down the middle of the dome... Long time ago I considered Dean Cook of RI. whom I saw every Sunday @ N.E. Dragway a friend... His 351-C 71 Mustang has held NHRA Stock Eliminator National Records almost forever... Runs mid-low tens...STOCK...ya that's right...STOCK... Won NHRA New England Nationals last year...there's a guy still get'n it done... Can't wait to hear what Rusty has to say...

Do you have a 351C engine builder you can recommend around 25404? It's for a very special father-son project. Preferably within a 400 mile radius of that zip code. Any help would be awesome.

Also Tim id like to add. I’ve used lifter bore bushings , the auxiliary line, and restrictors as well as tmeyer cam bearings. As of now the only mod i use is Tims restrictor Bearings. The last Clevelands sees 7300 rpm shifts on two bolt no problem so far.

Have you ever ran open chamber heads 4v . And make any good power.

Love the channel! Love the Cleveland (I mean 335 series)! Thanks Tim.

Dude you really should be starting with an aftermarket block for this build so all the oiling, core shift and bottom end strength issues are solved right out of the box. I means whats a world industries or ford motorsport block worth? 1500? 2K? I mean do a patreon and charge every member 1 dollar. If even only a quarter of people sign up, theres your money right there. Gotta approach these things looking at the big picture and spending this small amount in the grand scheme is gonna save you more time and money than pretty much any other mod. Keep plugging away. Tom from Oz

First Great video and information and you have a new SUBSCRIBER.

I couldn't remember the series numbers. I call a Cleveland, a Cleveland, a Windsor, a Windsor, and a 289/302 a small block. I've worked on FE's(Ford Edsel), 429's, Y-block's, and I owned a 1949 Merc Flathead(it was in my 40 Ford coupe)! It's like people saying Pontiac Big Block! LOL. The 347-455, Pontiac's, are all the same physical size! Cool series.

Tim i agree, 👍🏼 like you said, what ever experience you’ve had & what works for ya best at the end of the day.

What is the best sequential multi port efi for a cleveland?

Alot of hand waving here. Distracting.

Thank you Tim excellent information

Great video..... I remember back in the early 70's, it was so easy to make power from a 351C. Any chance of you talking about a Boss 302?

Idk if the small block name was started because of cleveland having same bell housing bolt pattern as the 302/351w.

Under ford literature ford considered them a small block....if it hadn't been 30yr ago when I read it I'd pull up said literature.

does anyone sleeve the cylinders for more rigidity or is there a downfall doing it ?

Another myth is the Clevelands need rpm to make power. I did a pump gas 357 that made just over 425@5900. Hardly spinning her lol.

Good work with this video mate!

dots next to the 4 on the head indicate casting revisions. same as 4M series cranks. the A and B (4MA, 4MA-B) is just a casting revision indicator.

351 Windsor? Think designations small block for yrs were 350 ci and below but you had 400 ci sbc and 360 sbm or other brand sizes but become a grey area lately strokers and new small 460 ci small block after market combos nhra and sanctioning bodys had classes for them !

They also called it a mid-block. Would love to grab one of Meyers aluminum Track Boss

Let's see and hear one of those museum peices make some music.

351-M is nothing more than a destroked 400, nothing in the rotating assembly will work with the typical 2V-4V 351 ci Cleveland..

Looking to build a 351m (not professional racer, just want a fast, beefy street truck. 90 f150 short bed single cab) came with a 300 initially. I already have the 351m. My question is internals.. I've been told multiple things. "It's a 400 block with cleveland heads and 400 crank and pistons" "It's a 351w with 400 crank and pistons" obviously it's not a windsor but what crank does it come with from factory? Does the cleveland share the same block as the 351m or a 400? And the heads are just different? End of the day I have a 351m and I wanna know what I can do to make 350+ hp (little low but depending on what we're talking. Truthfully 500hp and I'd feel like I am king of the world. Please help. You seem to be just the guy who could answer my questions accurately. Good video

Respect Glidden,! Saw a post while back on a block that came up on Mustang forum Facebook, block had no casting identification, I think they figure out it was a 351 Windsor from the heads, but there was speculation the block something special, a first look thought it was a industrial engine of some kind, everyone else was saying 351M, M engines were notorious for being poor casting, with the later ones being stronger 76 later I believe. But getting back to the block with no casting identification, I’m certain that some of those molds were sold off at the factory, perhaps independently made blocks made there way into industrial applications in this manner, hot rod high nickel block for marine, or heavy duty use?

Thank You, excellent video and information. 342? Want to hear it sing! Can’t wait for Spring.

I'd call the Cleveland a small block because the 302 has a shorter deck hight than every other American v8 i would classify the 302 as an economy motor . But its really just semantics

Looking forward to your dyno video, certainly racy looking heads you have there. We're doing a mild street 393 C build in the coming months. Customer had a standard bore 4 bolt block, something I didn't think still existed 50 years later. We're going with the Speedmaster heads since that's all we can find in the Covid era, and they look pretty nice for what they cost.

New to the Cleveland! I'm running one in my 66 cobra replica very mild at the moment ! But I'm looking at going with the trick flow 190 heads I think it is for the heads and single plane intake with my 750 dp hope to have a strong reliable Cleveland

Great video. Back in the early 1970s here in Australia, they raced the GT Falcons with the 351 C. Main issue was the small factory sump and the sticky race tyres. Lots of engines died due to surge. The real issue was with the 4.5 litre sump, at 6,000 rpm there was only 2 litres or so in the sump...the rest was up high. Teams were eventually allowed to run a dry sump system which fixed a lot of issues. Great to watch all the interesting things about the Cleveland.

Do you have a book in the works?

will a boss 302 fit in a 66 mustang

This clip is full of information!

Most people call the Cleveland a Small Block cause of the bell housing pattern. This is what I have found over the years. The Cleveland used the same bell housing pattern as the 289/302. The 351M and 400's used the 429/460 bell housing pattern, but the flywheel is a whole different thing.

I'm 68 & have been a true Ford fan for 50 years. Both NASCAR & drag racing. I'm guilty of always thinking the 351's were considered small block & the 429/460 big blocks. I know they were classified the 335/385. Just like the FE's series. The list of famous Ford racers,from Stock to T/F is as long as my arm,but Mr. Glidden has always been my favorite. I went to the US NATIONALS for many years,got to see Dyno,G&R & "MAD DOG" win many titles there! Loved watching all the classes with Ford powered engines! NHRA/IHRA/AHRA, ah the good old days! Now NHRA P/S is only Chevys, not interested in the least! This is your first video I've seen. I subscribed! You mentioned you & your wife having P/S 's. Do you compete in NHRA or??? Sorry for this being so long, but like I said,I'm a huge Ford fan! Good luck to you & everyone else who races with Ford power! Long Live Fast Fords!

The "Dot" on 4V heads denotes a later casting revision that has slightly revised water passages, casting dates will show this too.

OK , so lets do this . You just did a Myth video that was another misleading video about the Cleve....The DOT , yes the DOT does mean something but I see a guy already covered that . Also , YES the Cleve is a small block !!! Ford gives everything an internal designation but I dont see people calling the Crown Vics panthers !!!!! "Hey man check out my Panther Marauder over here" Yah no...... My kid does this same thing once he finds out Fords internal designations because he feels it makes him sound more knowledgeable . You ended up with a BBF and a SBF simply because all the small blocks used the same bell and all the big blocks used their own bell . Did ford internally designate them 385 and 335 ? Yeah , but that isnt what they have been known as for many many years... There are a TON of people that still argue today that the Cleve is a big block. The 351 and 400 M are whatever ? NO , they are MICHIGAN engines from the MICHIGAN engine plant.... Also they are step children with the small bore and large bell and interchange heads with the small block. Hell those were the very early stroker parts for windsors right there .... Personally I always referred to them as small blocks. The cleve sucked because once you got it spinning up where it needs to really run the oiling system didnt support it so yah , it was a bad design for that purpose. Take the 427 for instance , it was designed to spin up and had the oiling system to back that up so it didnt explode once you got it there.Im just busintg your balls here so dont get all youtube sensitive on me....

☑️ Yep, since as far back as the mid 80s, I heard about, and even READ articles referring to the "351M-400". So I always assumed it was "a thing". Obviously not! Next, I guess you're going to try telling me that's NOT a factory/stock "265-289-302" engine in my 1984 Ford Escort! 😁

As the seaseme street aliens say. Yep yep yep yep yep! Naming convention. 335 .....and nit small block. yep. (Although even Ford called its tall deck 351M a Cleveland at times in press literature) Oiling system. Yep. Cylinder walls. Yep

Very enthusiastic delivery Tim. You really know how to hammer the main points home. I'm not sure how high they revved the Bathhurst Clevos back in the day, but I'm fairly sure the best performers had massaged oiling systems. The '70 race was the first with a "335 series" engine, and Moffat won in the factory run Falcon; then again in '71, even with a cardboard box stuck in front of the radiator for some time ! Further into the Seventies, I think they were up-ing the rpm, and oiling issues killed plenty of Clevelands on Mount Panorama !!

You can make a 2 bolt stronger than a 4 bolt by 45ing the cap bolts. But use a machine shop, don't try this at home!

I grew up in the 70s,those cleavlands 2 or 4 brl with minor mods where kick ass.

Another great Video!! Love the myth busting....

AMC had oil problems and someone figured out to run a oil line from the front cam plug (in the lifter valley). And run it to the back of the motor.

1.628 PCH is enormous, and with a 5.855 rod, - a 3.430 stroke gives (with 0.000 pin offset) a 9.198 assembly height @ TDC, and a ~1.707:1 rl/s ratio. - a 3.400 stroke gives (with 0.000 pin offset) a 9.183 assembly height @ TDC, and a ~1.722:1 rl/s ratio. As always, there's an engineering tradeoff to be made, but I think if the block can handle the strain, the recip assembly parameters should be mostly decided along this tree: 1) What is the maximum bore that my heads will support? Piston crown design can improve this number, depending on lots of variables, so there's nothing inherently wrong with using a smaller bore than you could have, unless you run into shrouding problems (or worse). In any particular block, a smaller bore will have a thicker cylinder wall -- which means the block is stronger and more rigid, but simultaneously also (for the people who want to pick at nits) technically heavier. 2) What is the shortest compression height that I can use? The answer isn't always obvious: the proper wristpin diameter is correlated to bore size: use too small a diameter and it doesn't matter that the pin doesn't bend: the piston will bend around it -- which is not exactly optimal. Most people are using SBC pins (0.927 or 0.930) in big-bore SBFs, but after 4.125, I start thinking I want a bigger pin. Ring stack along the lines of 1.0-1.2mm for the top and second rings, 3mm for the oil ring. 3) What is the longest stroke I can use? Again, the answer isn't always obvious: the SBC 400 came stock with a 5.565 rod length and a 3.750 stroke (1.484:1 rl/s) so you can go shorter than 1.500 on the rl/s ratio -- and Kaase recommends rod length be 2 inches greater than stroke, and since he's built plent of 6.000-stroke "mountain motors," it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to realize that a 1.33-ish rl/s will work pretty effectively with the right components. I'm pretty sure that there are people that have built combos with rl/s ratios in the 1.250-1.280-ish range, but I don't remember specific examples; I do recall a BBF tractor-pull engine that had a 13-inch deck (with plates, sleeves) and a 6.250 stroke with an 8.200 or an 8.250 rod (1.312:1 or 1.320:1); the tall piston in that case was to help resist piston distortion under the extreme pressures and temps of pulling. You're not in danger of this with the sort of combo that you intend to run, but just FYI to anyone having read this far: (a) different piston manufacturers use different "check height" points relative to the wristpin centerline; and (b) the bottoms of cylinder bores usually feature a sort of "flare" or de-burring relief. The increased-diameter portion at the bottom of that bore does not count in the true length of the cylinder: for what I'm about to describe, it's the same as if it had been lopped off. If the check height point drops below the true bottom of the cylinder, the piston will wobble in the bore and if you're extremely lucky, it'll only cost you some badly-scuffed skirts: it can ruin your engine in a heartbeat. Additionally, I don't like the centerline of the wristpin to drop below the true bottom of the cylinder. To find out where the centerline of the wristpin is going to be @ BDC, relative to the crankshaft centerline, subtract half the length of the stroke from the rod length (remembering that rod length is always measured between the centerlines of the rod's wristpin bore and the rod's crankpin bore). I know *you* know that, but I didn't want someone in the comments saying they measured over the balancing pads and now everything doesn't fit, or something similarly ridiculous. 4) Anyway, decide where you want the crown of the piston to be @ TDC; this will be determined largely by two elements: (a) clearances between the piston crown and the head and valves; and (b) the static compression ratio you want to use, which will itself be almost entirely determined by the anti-knock and burn characteristics of whatever you're using for fuel. When I refer to fuel, I mean that in the sense that fuel is the reductive component in an oxidation-reduction reaction: it's the thing that gets burned in the presence of the oxidizer. Generally speaking, the oxidizer in nearly every RICE (reciprocating, internal-combustion engine) is air; sometimes to air is added an agent such as nitrous oxide. Common fuels used are alcohols and gasolines; these are occasionally blended with each other, with or without the addition of other substances that may be described either as an additive (such as an "injector cleaner," and "octane booster," etc) or another fuel (which itself may be a blend, an example of which is "model airplane fuel" that is sometimes added because it is available in blends containing a relatively high fraction of nitromethane, and it can be discretely stored without alerting one's racing buddies to the fact). The downside to nitromethane is that even a small amount added to an OE fuel system will destroy it in a matter of minutes -- so unless you're planning on replacing the entire fuel system from tank to intake after 1 or *maybe* 2 passes, or you've built and installed a complete nitro-compatible fuel system, don't even try using that. You really don't want to burn-down your car, and if the fire happens while you're zipping along at 160-or-so, you may not be able to get out before the flames decide to buddy-up to you in the cockpit. That's not the sort of thing I have in mind when I think of "heart-warming" friendships. Ethanol is a particular type of alcohol having the chemical formula C2H5(OH); methanol is a particular type of alcohol having the chemical formula CH3(OH). I could elaborate on those and get into subspecies, but that's beyond the scope of what normal people need to worry about outside a laboratory. Ethanol and methanol have different characteristics when used as fuels. By law, in the USA, ethanol used as a motor fuel must be "denatured" (blended with something to make it unfit for human consumption); the IRS -- in particular, the BATFE -- regulates this, but it kinda makes me think there's some squirrels in our government when the same government that insists firearms must be taken away from people because they might be used to hurt someone, also demands that we poison what could otherwise be beverage alcohol. I'm not advocating that people drink alcohol; I don't, but I recognize that others do. And I'm not judging: I once met a family that made orange wine; I can't remember how to get in touch with them, and it's been well over 50 years since I last saw them, but they were proud of their product and it would have been extremely rude for my family to have not sampled a taste (it was *just* a taste -- between maybe 5cc and 10cc). I recall that it was as smooth as water but also very sweet; if they're still alive and making wine, I think I might someday want to buy a bottle and sip on it now and again as I age and reminisce; I don't think I'd want a whole glass at once, but for me, it isn't about the alcohol. My point was that kids today seem far more nosy than when I was a wee lad -- or maybe they're just undisciplined; regardless, there seems to be a behavioral pandemic among children, caused and exacerbated by "parents" who fail to *be* parents (being a biological donor doesn't make someone a mom or a dad), in which meddling children get into things they ought not, often with dire consequence -- and I've met far too many "adults" who either ignore or deliberately violate the warnings on labels, so I don't really think that it's a labeling issue: they pick locks and do other things; there's no way to stay ahead of them: you've got to start early and teach them to want to do right and to not want to do wrong. But should the kid pay for the failure of its parents? I mean, you don't want a kid getting into it either way, but when the side effect on one end is a hangover and on the other end is permanent blindness -- I think the less-poisonous route is better. JMO. YMMV. Gasoline is a chemical mixture; not a chemical substance. There are different gasolines, and different blends have not only different AKI numbers but also different burn characteristics. All AKI grades of gasoline sold have the same approximate Btu content: it fluctuates a little, but there's very much more variation from summer to winter blends in the USA, than there is difference between the various AKI grades. In naturally aspirated engines, higher AKI values do not necessarily translate to better performance. Also under "b" (remember the original topic?) -- after the fuel's AKI is the cylinder's bore diameter, closely followed by the combustion chamber design (not just the space in the head: the piston and the quench volume shapes also count), then the rl/s ratio. All these things interact, so the number of potential outcomes is theoretically infinitely large, although in the end, these can generally be categorized as "won," "placed," "finished," "DNF," and "DNS." Of those, "DNF" is probably the most expensive.

Delt with a few Cleveland engines. Had one in a Ford LTD that I later put in a 65 F100. Lost the rear main seal and pumped oil out. Took 11 quarts of oil to go 100 miles and then it spun the bearings. I have one on my engine stand and am looking at modifications to put a pair of cut and welded Cleveland heads on a stroked 4.0 Jeep engine. Bore centers are the same and head bolt holes on one side line up. Also looking onto the 2.5 Jeep 4 cylinder with a Cleveland head on it. Highway 101 Rod and Custom.

People call a 351cleveland a small block because you use a small block bellhousing on it ... Also you can use the 351cleveland heads on a 289 , 302, 351W , 5.0 ford engine's

Well said mate, my AFD headed Parker manifold 2 bolt 100,000 mile block with 3 sleeves 393 has made about 350-400 11.0 passes. Am I'm worried. hell no! Just want to rip it down the track again. I use a hi vol pump and by pass line. And its fine by me. And in Australia they call the 400 a Cleveland as well. Grrrrrrrrrr 🤬 I keep an eye out for blocks with the lifter bore central to the casting boss. Great video.

4 v Cleveland can be built for torque. But no one has did it except me I guess. I did it by accident. I found the heads by accident too, used as weight on a plow in Yakima. I'm building an engine just like the one I put together in the 80's that made off idle power and loads of torque. I plan to run it on the dyno. I will post the numbers but not how I put it together. Too many unbelievers out there.

What kind of Chevy LS is a Cleveland? Or is it a LSX?

351M/400 had the same connecting rods. 2 differences in these engines. Pistons and crankshaft. That's it. They are the SAME engine. The 351M pistons have a taller compression height. All parts are identical except for the crank and pistons.

DragBoss Tim you gotta love girls. You think you gott'em in the garage and then you get them a bunny and its all over with hahahaha. I know how that goes. Good info man. What is crazy are the Pontiac and Buick engines. 326-455 and all with the same blocks. Tell me that's not simple living. I cant wait to get to the track to try out your old shocks on my Cat. So have you ever cleaned up those Thrush side pipes I traded you?