Ford 302 vs 351w Pound For POUND Who You Got? Lets Find Out... 

Yep

Yep and aluminum heads intake and water pump not much more weight

There is no replacement for displacement 351 wins Nuff said

Thanks man!

Yes

Windsor or Cleveland?

@@bobhill3941 he said "w", so that would be a Windsor, unless he was thinking Clevor, but even those are obsolete now with the aftermarket heads out there. Clevelands had the same dogleg exhaust port issue of the Windsors.

@@alertgasper Thanks, I just got confused with all the conflicting information. I was under the understanding that the 302 Windsor was the "base" average Mustang engine compared to the hipo boss. Are the Cleveland dogleg port issues because of airflow?

@@bobhill3941 Not a problem, Ford made 3 varieties of 351 cid engine, the Windsor, the Modified, and the Cleveland (which had a Boss version in 1971). Many folks stayed away from Fords as a result, until the Fox Mustang made it so affordable either you played with one or you were against one :) The 302 was often a base engine--i can only think of two times it had a 4 bbl option, one for GT Mustangs in 1960's and again in the 1980's. Most Ford engines designed in the 1960's have a poor exhaust flow issue because of the shock tower design for the Falcons, Fairlanes and Mustangs--there's not a lot of width there in the ol' boiler room. What often is the big issue with a Cleveland is the size of the ports in general--the 4V (for venturi, the technical term for "barrels" in a carb, so it's the 4 bbl heads) are great above 3,000 rpm, so many hunted for the 2 bbl cleveland heads when building something more for street use. it wasn't unusual for Ford to drop a 2 bbl cleveland V8 into say, a torino station wagon in the 1970's as the performance age had ended and they were using up what they had left. In the Pro Stock racing classes, however, the guys running Cleveland heads would--believe this or not--cut the exhaust port off the side of the head and weld on square pipes to straighten out the exhaust port. But they were also shifting gears at 7,000 RPM. Thanks to the Fox Mustang, the aftermarket has made some nice heads for the 302 that fit any 351W block, so you really don't need to screw with a Cleveland for a street machine unless you want to. Windsors tend to have a better oiling system, the aftermarket heads flow well enough, and the Windsor's wider crankshaft bearing surfaces and a need to have the lifter bores machined for perfect straightness are only an issue when you want to run high RPMs.

and for those who don't know, a lightweight car doesn't need a ton of power (and if you're driving lessons were from your high school football coach, you're not going to handle a ton of power very well anyway). so a ford 302 pushrod designed with OEM small port heads is going to make the off-idle torque you need to feel like you're really going fast. but a lightweight engine in the front of the car is also going to help handling and braking--you should always build a car to get OUT of trouble faster than you got yourself into it.

Much appreciated

I appreciate it!

Thanks for watching!

You bet! Thx man!

I never realized there was that much difference in weight! The height and header fit up are why I have a 302 in my '31 vs the 351's in past cars. Even that 302 is a tight fit with the overall length using a fuel pump timing cover with the longer water pump.

I appreciate that!

My pleasure!

Thank you!

Glad you liked it!

Nice!

Right. For sure.

Glad it was helpful!

Yes

it's why Ford wasn't really popular back in the day, you had to know which block you had (and Ford gave up its Total Performance parts plan in the early 1970's, while Chevy kept coming out with performance parts at the dealership parts counter). The Fox Mustang really got people back into Ford since the car was cheap to buy and then owners wanted to get more out of it. Then Ford came out the the GT40 setup in 1987 (?) that was like chevy did with the Power Pack parts in the 1950's for their 283.

You bet

Thx

You can make a fast 302 setup no doubt but you can more than make up for the 80 lbs extra on the front end from the amount of sheer power you can make over a 302nwith a 351. If it's a road race application it probably means more (not having the extra weight on the front) in a drag race setup the 351 wins all day.

No doubt the 351w is a great power house. 80 lbs on the nose of the car is huge though for handling. Automakers strive to keep engine more rearward just to help reduce weight over the nose. It wouldn’t stop me from building a stout 351w just saying wow that’s a lot! For drag racing obviously no biggie just make mo powa! 😁

If you already have a 302 I don't see how it would be detrimental, especially since on Foxes and SN95s you can just do little things like change the bumper support for a lighter aftermarket unit and a couple of other easy bolt on things to get that 80 lbs back off. Now if you want to talk about something like the difference between a 4 cyl, V6 and V8 that's a whole new ball game.

It's actually 70# difference. 128+38+24=190.

Right up my alley!

351 bro! 351

Glad it was helpful!

Hell ya

Just split my 302 block I’ve always wanted to build a 351w

It should be

Thx

No problem 👍

Ty

Thanks

Thanks man!

makes sense, 1967 Ford redid the Mustang planning to pop in the FE, so there was more room than the prior generation design. And you still can build the 289 for resale.

Thanks man. I bought it from my paint store local here.

@@Neomustangs Thanks Dan I didn't want to do a lot of research thought it was easier asking you. My Old boss use to say " if it ain't worth asking for, It ain't worth having." I used to say that Back to him when It was Raise time. LOL

Loved that show, when I was a kid.

There is no such thing as a 400"M" Ford ... You are referring to a de-stroked 400 Ford which they referred to as a 351M basically the "Windsor" 351 crank was fitted into a 400 and became known as the 351* "modified".. yes same family.. basically the 400 was never "modified" never a" 4v" four-barrel carb on anything production 400/351m small valve small port. Nutted to meet emissions what is exactly why the 400 was de-stroked 2 bump down the compression and the cubes to meet emission also because of detonation problems with the nutted 400...&"new at the time" unleaded gasoline"watered down or cheap gas". 👤🙉🙈🙊🏁

@@codyhenry3926, I called it a 400M to distinguish it from the non-factory engine modification being described, which could legitimately be called a 400 Windsor. Not a reference to the destroked 400, since the resulting displacement was still 400 cubic inches, or more precisely, 402. This old-style crankshaft swap could be done because the main bearing diameter of the 351 Windsor and the 400 were the same

around that time, there was the 377 cid stroker concept--offset grind a 351W crank to take a mopar 318 connecting rod and a chevy "turbo" 350 piston. both this and your idea were answers to the Chevy 383 that became the "it" engine in the later 1980's. Aftermarket crankshafts like the one used by this channel to create the 387 cid (ford did it as a crate engine at 392 cid) are cheaper than having a machine shop do all this work and balancing afterward.

Yes

It’s been shown that the Mexican block thing is a myth. There’s no difference, including nickel content.

@@aaronliddell4280 Actually the main caps on the early Mexican blocks are larger and the casting protrusions on the front of the block must add some weight. I'm curious if it's a bit heavier as a casting overall vs a standard thin-wall production block.

@@bigc6310 I’d be curious as well as I’ve yet to see any proof of difference between them 👍

@@aaronliddell4280👍

Force induction only on that 900hp. If you say different, I say bullshit. That's approximately 3hp per sq in.

One rod ever in all my boosting bent. Not broken

Imbalances and detonations

None i plane my headers flat.

I have an on3 on my 410 on my white car. Go check that playlist out. I talk about back pressure and gates etc in all my turbo dyno videos

@@Neomustangs been looking for that video can’t seem to find it. You have a lot of videos. Can you send me the link to it

Yes but people usually use drop mounts on 351 sense its a taller motor. But yes will work

Those are aftermarket blocks. These are production in this video. 427 with 4.17 rod does have a lot of rod angle and clearance needed

It really isn’t about the number more than the timing fuel in the tune and if it’s balanced. There’s a lot of variables

@@Neomustangs Hey Daddy Dan, just bought a t shirt. Sorry it took me this long. If you were me and just run the car on the street and want 500hp NA, would you stroke to 347 with 0 balance or go to a 351 stroker? Keep up the good work, Brent

Yes I would always tune something like that.

@@Neomustangs I'd need a piggyback for my a9l then?

4b5evd7 cubxe73 x

Should work as long as the firing order is the same. I believe the 302 firing order changed to the 351W firing in 82. Another thing to be careful of. The 351W was plentiful in the f150, f250, and vans. The problem is the intake. Ford Motor Sports use to sell a lower intake to adapt your 302 upper. I'm sure other after market companies do too. Bare in mind, the 351W is wider, so your exhaust will need to be adjusted. The exhaust manifolds are interchangeable. But if you are going with headers, then this doesn't matter because you will need to adjust the exhaust anyways.

Being wider is a consideration. I’m not thinking about headers, but measurements must take place. Thank you.

💯

They use the same yes

They did in 1995, the Cobra R had 300hp/365ft-lbs of 351W and a Tremec 3550 5 speed.

Roush did a twin turbo 351w back in the late 80s for Ford. The T5 couldn't handle it, and Ford didn't want to spend any more money on it.

@@robbiehays1967 Ford could have easily put a 351W in it just hopped up enough to one up over the 350 of GM, using an automatic. They were just scared to do that for some reason.

@@robbiehays1967yeah, Ford has never been known for spending money they didn't have to. Like replacing the Pinto gas tank, or giving the Mustang a rear set of disc brakes (you had to pay almost twice as much for the SVO to get a set of Lincoln discs). Chevy in comparison would hand out four bolt main blocks for any vehicle considered heavy duty.

@alertgasper Have you ever compared the Ford 2 bolt main block to a Chevy? The main journals and caps are so much beefier than the GM. Starting with the 289 HiPo, a 2 bolt main block, raced and won numerous 24-hour races and won. Running at times to 8000 rpms. 460 blocks are known to survive 1000 hp also with 2 bolt mains. I can go on, Ford ever since the start of the Horse power wars in late 50s early 60s, to give the customer the foundation to build their car to the hp they wanted without the company having to cover liability in terms of accidents or warranty issues from racing with Ford's hi performance vehicles. People would say the Mighty Boss 429s were dogs, but with a cam and carb swap they would be beasts. Heck with a good tune they could run a 12 sec qtr. Proven many times.