This video is RU-vid gold. Especially for mechanics that haven't done this job and just needed a walk though. Thank you for this video. The Vice grip trick worked perfectly. I'm starting reassembly tomorrow.
Nice video. I just had this done yesterday to my 2018 at 44K miles. I couldn't believe it took the dealership only a day. You mechanics have some mad skills (and patients) and this certainly isn't a driveway job.
@@TheBigghunter01 Doubt your truck would list to me. My repair was done under recall and the work performed at the dealership. If I had to do it in my driveway it never would have gotten done...LOL
I have same engine I had to change my head gasket on both sides I put may timing but car not running good as was before I think I mis my timing are those timing tool supposed bring exactly on time my is 2.7l ecoboostI have same engine I had to change my head gasket on both sides I put may timing but car not running good as was before I think I mis my timing are those timing tool supposed bring exactly on time my is 2.7l ecoboost
What a great job- and one handed no less!! I have to do this to my 3.5L and this video was very well done and easy to follow. Definitely a subscriber and look forward to seeing more videos. Keep up the great work!
I just had my phasers replaced on my 2019 3.5 they started rattling at 9k miles. I only have 12k on the truck. There was a 2 to 3 month waiting list. It’s unbelievable to me how complicated engines have gotten since the 60s. I remember replacing the cam on my 327. It was a cinch compared now. When I saw what was behind the front cover on your video I just had to shake my head. I like the way your video is put together. You make it easy to follow along. Even though it’s by no means an easy job.I
Very good video…thank you. I don’t know, most people idle around with these engines and never take them through their rev range. I “exercise” my ecoboost a few times a month. I hope it help. l’ll see.
I just subscribed to your channel both of these parts are great man ........ i am a tech at an independent shop but i work on a shit ton of Fords and Cam Phaser rattle is a big thing those 3.5 are a real mess!!!!!
I had a 2017 3.5 it was flawless traded it at 32,000 miles for a 2020 couldn’t turn down the trade offer. Only 5000 miles on the 2020 so far no issues. I am a mechanic myself so I did the initial oil changes under 2000 miles, and every 4 to 5000 after.Only use a Motorcraft filter and quality full synthetic. Not sure if I was lucky or this is not as big a problem but I hear a lot about it.Thank you for the detailed video,I noticed a lot of guys pull the cab to do this job and you didn’t. From the outside looking in it looks like it would’ve been a lot easier if you had taken the coolant overflow bottle off,But you’ve done so many of these, I know you know all the tricks ,and you don’t look like you’re in your early 20s so I was kind of surprised to see you bending over working from the top these things must beat you up doing them all day.
Thanks, ya pulling the cab is a waste of time for me, Ford doesn't pay us to do that under warranty of course, I'm sure they're losing their butts on the warranty claims. My back is ok so far haha
So it's not that big of a deal changing these cam phasers out. Looks about the same as brain surgery. This is a great video because it's for the very few of us that don't have a car lift in their back yard so we can make the job much easier by lifting the body off the frame. Thx for making a video for DIY mechs.
ive done a bunch of these never have i ever thought of removing the crank pulley with the a/c belt still attached i always removed the belt can be a lil bit of a pain sometimes ill have to give that a try next time i do one of these again...
Thanks for taking the time for the diy shade trees. Got a question-I have to do this on a 2013 f150 crew with 3.5- that would be considered a gen1 cause of the single timing chain? Process would be exactly the same except for single chain install? Thanks for the input in advance!
Awesome video man! I have an 18 with 93k miles and it rattles like something I've never heard before. I got it at 78k miles and use royal purple to change my oil. I took it to the dealership recently for a recall where they had to *reprogram power module for cam phaser rattle.. well it's gotten worse since. I took it to my local ford dealership last week for an oil change and rotated tires since my extended warranty service pretty much wants thorough evidence of the maintenance. Well, I left a thorough note about the cam phaser rattle, and how it shudders bad at idle. They said the cam phasers needed to be replaced just by hearing it from a cold start. But now I have to take it to them so they can tear it down and have the extended warranty inspector come check it out to see if they will approve it. The ford place said they couldn't diagnose the shudder until the cam phasers were accounted for. But don't they say the cam phaser rattle doesn't affect performance? I recently changed my plugs too.
Ya so the reprogram for the cam phaser rattle apparently causes transmission issues, because Ford had us stop doing the reprogram on the vehicles. The tear down is a tricky situation because you as the customer have to approve it and if the warranty company denies coverage, you're stuck with a vehicle in pieces and have to foot the bill to put it back together, or replace all the phasers and related parts out of your pocket.
@@fordmd9704 That is what is worrying me the most.. what would you suggest? Just take it up there and hope for the best? Lol I'm not certain at this point what to do
@@fultonhester3976 as long as there isn't a bunch of sludge from the previous owner of the truck, and no grooves in the cam caps due to lack of maintenance, you should be ok. These warranty companies try and get out of paying for repairs and delay it any way they can. Not a big fan of aftermarket warranties unless it's actual Ford Premiumcare. It's the best one for the customer as far as coverage, but it does pay me warranty time for the repairs, so I lose money on them.
Absolutely great 2 part videos on this, had this procedure done at dealership under latest TSB, not sure it was actually done as water pump hadn't ever been removed. Rattles more now than ever on cold start after an additional 20,000 miles on the truck. Have you done any of the gen 2 3.5 eco boost turbo coolant lines? can right side be replaced by just removing turbo and components involving that removal? thanks.
Entertaining video!! Watchin ecoboost videos over dinner, looking at problems I hope I never have to fix. I've got a 2016 3.5L with 98K, and I haven't had issues like this yet. I would use the Lord's name in vain on this job, a few times.
You've got the Gen 1, which last much longer before having any issues. Also more frequent oil changes with quality oil help those alot as well. Lucas oil additive helps the Gen 1's.
2019 F150 3.5 EB. Did not have rattle at 30k, 40k, and 50k dealer checkups. Each time dealer told me they were not recommending re-flash unless a problem due to trucks coming back right after with other problems (shudder). Truck had 59600 mi when rattling started. Called dealer for appointment to check, earliest was a month out and he told me not to worry as long as they saw it before 12/31/2022. Now another dealer and FMC tells me that is BS, needs new VCT and no warranty coverage available because over 60k.
Got a 19 raptor with the 3.5 also with this phaser problem since I’m doing this job I was wondering what all exactly should I replace new ? Timing chains ? Tensioners? Guides ? Also wondering if it would be good to replace camshafts and new lifters
Thanks for the awesome videos. I'm gathering my parts to start this job and was wondering what are the torque specs for intake, timing cover, crank damper, etc? Or guide me to a place where I can find that info. Thanks in advance.
First of all, great video. You have loads of talent and knowledge. I had to have thos job done to my 3.5 gen 2 also. Maybe you can explain why these parts would need to be changed so early in the life of the vehicle and maybe if you could show the old phasers and see if they have any wear and tear on them from these cold starts. I have no clue why ford wouldn't do a recall other than not wanting to foot the bill for repair. I had 60k miles on mine when it started making noise gradually getting worse and worse.
Engineers can't program in a delay to activate the phasers and also not doing proper maintenance on the vehicle no 10k oil drops even with syn oil. Run syn oil and no more than 5k changes!
I could almost do it myself. Great explanation. It looks like an expensive job. It seems to me you cant own old cars anymore. Engines are so complicated, it cost too much to kee a car for a long time. I have an old 5.4 lincoln which so far is doing great. I am thinking about getting a new one but these newer engines are scary
If you have a 5.4 Lincoln you don’t have much less complication than this thing.I could see if you had a GMLS that’s a simple engine but the 5.4 Lincoln is a 32 valve, 4 cam V8 ..
This isn't an old car, that's a 2017. And this is still a problem with all new model trucks. Ford's engineers shit the bed and ford is refusing to make it a recall.
Don't replace the chain and use a wedge at the tensioner so the chain does not move. Mark your chain and take the phasers out and put back on , no messing with the chain. Also use the updated phasers. Using this style again, you will be back in it later for the same problems.
What is the long term effects of not replacing these? Ford as per TSB says no longterm durability or reliability issues, which I find hard to believe. I'm at 146,000Kms and havent gotten this done, mostly cause it's 3K out of pocket repair up here in Canada.
Damn I’m doing one at work and I didn’t really check if the mark on the crank gear aligned with the two marked chain links on the (driver side). Just made sure the ones on top did. Didn’t have the special tool either /: I couldn’t really see it and just based it off of the mark I made on my own :’( I’ll let you guys know tomorrow if it runs good or if it needs a new engine. I already put the cover back on and all the pulleys and belts. Just waiting on some valve cover gaskets and it’ll be ready to go I hope. Literally my 4th timing job and each one just gets harder and harder -.-
Thanks for the video. You demonstrate great skills and knowledge. You replaced the Cam Phasers with the same original part numbers. I don't know the exact timing of this video but the 2021 part number was supposedly improved to address the root cause of the failures. The new part numbers are ML3Z-6256-A and ML3Z-6C525-A. Thinking if this is true then your video should be updated? Could be valuable for DIY's and people taking their trucks to shops to be aware of. Sorry if I am mistaken.
The procedure is exactly the same, just newer design phasers, marks and everything are all the same, this was made before the updated design came out, thank you!
I have a 2018 with 68k that's going in in a week for this repair. So glad I'm within the 100% coverage period! How are the water pumps with these engines? I see you're right there with this repair and it wouldn't be any extra labor to have a new one put on. Are there any other parts you'd recommend to replace with this repair that aren't covered under the general repair?
@Ford MD If I had this work done by the dealer back in July of this year under tsb 21-2119, I think that SHOULD include an oil change. I'm trying to decide whether I can count that as a engine coolant change as well, or would it be a bad assumption to think they pulled the drain plugs on the engine block to get enough out to count as a real drain/fill. I have a 2017 F-150 V6 EB with 81K miles. Thanks
Yes an oil change is performed with the phaser replacement tsb. Almost all the coolant is emptied after removing the water pump and associated hoses, so really you shouldn't need to do a coolant service.
Great video What do you do in case when driver side is not in line to insert locking/timing tool it’s off by couple millimeters. But tool doesn’t clear to lock in? Thanks
you can rotate the phasers a little bit, and just tap the tool with a rubber mallet. it won’t hurt anything cause most of those tools are aluminum and the cams are steel i think
Mr Ford, hopefully you see this message. My 2017 f150 3.5 eco is at the dealership right now. I took it in and they say what i though was a drive line vibration issue is a half order vibration caused by the engine. 61k miles on the engine. Ford support has told the dealership to replace both heads, all 4 cam shafts, 2 input phasers. They didn't say they were going to replace the timing chains, or guides. Would you recommend they replace both timing chains, guides and the exhaust phasers? I dont know if the Gen2 timing chains stretch like the single Gen 1 chains do.
I haven't really seen the chains stretch on the Gen 2's, but if they're doing all that might as well. Never heard of a vibration that requires all of that
Hi, I changed the phasers, timed everything correctly, put everything back together. However, after start up, I started to get a low oil pressure warning on idle only. Could you please help me troubleshoot the issue over the phone. I would like to pay you for your time.
Hi can i move the crankshaft alone against clockwise while the chain off to put it on the 4 o’clock position for ford explorer 2019 ? Actually need about 180° turn against clockwise to reach to its point Can I Thank you so much
@@southern842 no never got an answer... looks like too many problems with f150 products... the 10 speed trans is also a nightmare if you do a quick search on youtube
Thanks for posting. Have you noticed any timing chain stretch, or guide wear... especially for those of us with higher mileage? This would be a good time to replace the chains, tensioners, and guides if they are prone to stretch/wear. My parts are on order, but I'm second guessing the need for new chains/tensioners/guides.
I haven't seen any chain stretching issues yet, but the ones that I mostly do have less than 60k miles under power train warranty. The older gen 1's had chain stretching issues though. If you're going in there I would probably replace them, I also have noticed that adding lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer in the oil also helps prolong the noise.
@@fordmd9704 Thanks again. I'll be replacing the chains as well, and have been considering the stabilizer. I see many folks like the 5W40 instead of the 5W30... you see any issue with the heavier oil in colder climates like Wisconsin?
@@fordmd9704 thanks again. I was able to get through the job over a long weekend. In my case, I'm the second owner of 2017 f150 ecoboost and this was, at least, the second time the phasers were replaced. For anyone doing this at home, understand that this is a BIG job, and you will need an accurate manual for torque specs and patterns. It appears that any manual that lists '15-'17 f150's is not accurate for the '17 3.5l ecoboost engine... they still list them as having a gen 1 3.5l. I was able to combine this tutorial with those from a first gen 3.5l phaser replacement presented by Ford Tech Makuloco to help with reinstallation and cleaning... and I bought a VIN specific manual for $80. She runs better than the day I bought it, and I saved nearly $2600. Now, on to the dealership for a pcm update... and a butt chewing for not disclosing the previous repairs.
Sir, thank you for sharing knowledge, its really appreciated since you are working with on hand most of the job!! I definitely get what I need from information and motivation by making it so easy. I'm going to do camphasers to my 2018 Expedition, may I ask for torqueing spec for al that job? Is there a recommended dealership ( trust , price) that I can order these parts online from cause I'm outside US.I take my hat off for you man.
As far as I know, no. They have us do a software update to the pcm that is supposed to prolong them, but I have done a few sets on some that have already had them changed out prior
If I understand correctly, they are now an updated design. Probably news since this was first asked, but figured it might help someone watching down the road.
No, just leave the camshaft alignment tools in place until you are ready to put the valve covers back on. The camshaft alignment tools will allow for a tiny bit of play on the crankshaft so that you can wiggle the crankshaft & line up your chains on all of your sprocket timing marks. If you have everything you could possibly need to do the job, then it should take 2 days: 1 day for tare down, 1 day to prep [in the morning] and then re-assemble everything. It's [essentially] not that much different than a full timing job on the old, shitty Triton engines. When I'm that involved in an engine, I give it the works & replace everything: phasers, guides, chains, tensioners, VCTs, output shaft seal, upgrade the oil pump, replace the water pump, new belt, etc. I mean, you might as well....and who would really want to have to go back in and dick with it again?
I'm in the middle of doing this job on my 2017 in my driveway...so finding information for torqueing sequence and values seems to be non existent and when you ask the parts guy for a printout of the job sheets they start stuttering like you asked them for some top secret information. Do you have a suggestion for a source? Thanks for the video it was very helpful
Honestly, kind of like a head gasket as far as sequence goes. Inside to outside alternating sides, and I just use an electric ratchet during tightening. Only things I really torque are the phasers themselves and the crank pulley bolt I use my 1/2 impact. No real science to it, just done so many, I just crank them out on the regular.
Do you know specifically what the issue is with the VCT unit as to why it's making a rattling noise? I'm always reading these reports of the dealer replacing the VCT units (only for the problem to still exist after), but no one ever seems to talk about the root cause is. I once heard it's a metal pin within each unit that opens and closes but supposedly gets stuck, and it has to do with oil pressure.
Honestly I don't know the root cause. I know they usually come back like 15000 miles later needing another set again, endless cycle. The 2018 and newer expeditions are particularly bad, seem to start making noise at the least mileage
Rattle noise is from pins inside the CamPhasers wearing out. Wear on those pins is caused by poor lubrication on initial startup. Not enough oil gets there before engine starts. Its just a poor piss design on Fords part. Recently Ford came out with software update which makes cranking longer before engine fires up but supposedly this update is causing transmission issues 🤦♂️ so they stopped doing update. New parts are made from supposedly better materials also. Another words with new parts you not fixing the issue with those engines you just get extra time before they go out again. Most intriguing part is that this issue effects 9-10% of 3.5L engines even though they have same CamPhasers. I believe starting November 2019 Ford started to install upgraded CamPhasers which last longer (supposedly), but again they never fixed lubrication issue that causes CamPhasers to go out in first place.
@@codename7832 @fordmd9704 Two questions : First...are you saying that 90-91% of these engines never have cam phaser failures? If this is true then the root cause for cam phaser failures is likely something else. Not sure I fully believe the delayed oil lubrication theory...when the oil drains there will always be a thin film present at startup...not fully dry on dry metal contact. I'm wondering if the root cause might be excessive stress on the cam phaser due to some other engine rotating/actuating components not aligning up properly? Second: Why would increasing the startup cranking time affect the transmission? The transmission isn't used until the engine has started and you put it gear? Both your answers would be interesting to see. Thanks...Werner
I just wanted to add...I wonder if that stupid Auto/Stop/Start feature is also somewhat related? The biggest stress on an engine and its supporting components is during engine startup. Do the engines that always have that feature turned on cause cam phasers to fail sooner than those that have feature mostly turned off? It doesn't explain the root cause but it could explain the wide varying mileages of when they fail? Werner
Just had this problem occur on my 2018 Platinum. My question is when I have this repaired will it happen again? Why does it happen and is there anything that I can do to hopefully prevent it from happening again (synthetic oil changes more frequently or no hard driving)? I really do appreciate any info and your time.
It will happen again. I have done multiple sets on some trucks. There is a new recall for a pcm reprogram just announced, but I haven't done one yet to see if it actually fixes anything. I'm sure more frequent oil changes could help, but no guarantee
@@fordmd9704 WRT to the multiple sets were they the latest *cd version phasers as I've had mine done twice in less than 44000 Km's. On the 2nd replacement Ford had the local service tech replace the timing chain adjusters and VCT solenoids as well. I change my oil every 5000 KM's with Ford spec approved full synthetic oil and OEM oil filters. The latest 21B10 update caused more issues than it solved and was cancelled. Great video BTW, you can probably do these in your sleep now.
Have a 17 3.5 eco on its way back to the shop again. Bought it in November and the cam phaser rattle began. Had the cam phaser, timing chains, tensioner guides all that replaced. 9 days later YES 9 DAYS Later it started doing it again. It has gradually gotten worse. Was told it would be okay tod rive it till the dealership could get me back in. Dropped it off yesterday to have very thing replaced again. (2 year unlimited mile warranty on all parts installed) prior to this I had the ocm reprogram for cam phaser shudder done. Wondering if I should have the pcm reflashed back to normal after having the repair done? I will never own another ecoboost for as long as I live. Should have just went with the coyote. 😭
Hmm haven't had that happen that quickly. The reprogram hasn't fixed a single truck in my experience, waste of time. If the truck is rattling already the reprogram is useless. Hopefully everything was installed properly.
9 days? If this is true and you received brand new vct units, then this isn't a "wear" issue at all! No way one of those locking pins could have worn fast enough to prevent positive engagement in 9 days! There is something else going on here....
Just clean it off with some brake clean or equivalent, and I use the same silicone as you use on the front cover where it would fit in the hole and let it set up a bit. Once you have the front cover back on the seal holds it in place. It's 50/50 if you can get the cover out without it breaking.
And obviously after everything is back together you have to do an oil change, let it drain for a while so any rtv/debris drains out from cleaning the front of the block, can run a quart of oil with the plug out to be sure.
I've got a 19' F150 3.5 Ecoboost with 18k miles, how likely am I to encounter a cam phaser issue? I change my engine oil every 5k with Ford Syn-blend 5w30. What truck do you drive? Maybe I should get a 21' 2.7 or 5.0? Thanks for sharing and any suggestions.
I have a 2021 F150 with a 2.7. At 1,400 miles I have this problem. Sounds like from all the videos and comments I have the only 2.7 that has bad cam phasers. Dealer is going to change phaser or phasers on 9/15. I'll never take the chance keeping a Ford out of warranty. Hope this helps you.
Does just repair the issue until it happens again or is this a TSB that’s supposed to be a “permanent” fix?? I really need answers. I have 2012 3.5 with 188k miles. Very loud rattle for like 2 seconds on cold starts. It can’t sit for about 4 hours and rattle just as loud as over night
Ya doesn't seem to fix it long term. Seems to last a while and then they're back doing it again. The gen 1's like your 2012 last longer. Try an oil change and add the Lucas oil stabilizer. Normally works on the gen 1's
I have same engine I had to change my head gasket on both sides I put may timing but car not running good as was before I think I mis my timing are those timing tool supposed bring exactly on time my is 2.7l ecoboost
thanks for the quick reply, i just came back from the dealer they want me to bring it in, my friends think this is a class action deal what do you think the long term fix is?
I understand My 17 at Stealership Now . They rejected their “Stealership Lifetime Powertrain Warranty” because I did most of the oil changes myself. $3000 repair
Some techs do it that way, I'm just used to not pulling the cab, waste of time for me, and Ford doesn't pay us for it under warranty. It only takes me 2 and a half-3 hours to complete the job if everyone leaves me alone without pulling the cab.
I lift the cab to do this because I hate fighting with tubes, hoses and wiring while being bent over a fender for hours. The 45 minutes it takes to unbolt the cab from the frame makes it well the unlimited access it provides to working on the engine.
@@michaelchan8915 what all is involved with this? do you have to claim and re-gas the hvac? if so thats not worth it for an home garage scenario. other wise i'd like to know more.
I’m about to do this on mine and was going to just plan on replacing that sensor. Doesn’t look like oil or crank sensor, did you ever find out what it was?
Great video!!! Maybe they weren’t out yet, but why are you not using the new design phasers? All this hard work just to do it all again later. The old design is guaranteed to fail, just a matter of time.
In the middle of this and I am at the point of putting ac belt on. As I turn motor over by crank bolt to get the ac belt on I'm seeing the right bank come in and out of tension slightly as I rotate the engine is this normal?
My 2019 3.5 just began rattling today at 88k miles. How long can something drive with bad phasers before it gets too bad or causes more extensive damage
There's really no time limit, I've seen some just keep on driving even though they rattle for 5+ seconds on a cold start, you can crank the vehicle with the gas pedal all the way to the floor to "prime" the phasers on a cold start to kind of prolong the inevitable, I know it's a very expensive repair
I just did my timing exactly like how you did. But when I go to crank it, it sounds like the cam and phaser slapping. I stopped. Now I took it back apart and timing is still correct. Is it suppose to slap until oil gets back into the phasers? Cause it sounds bad and now I’m stumped.
Hmm, during cranking it shouldn't make any odd noises. Now after it first actually starts up it will rattle a few seconds until pressure is raised. I normally hold the gas pedal to the floor and crank it over for a bit until the oil pressure gauge moves up. This will prevent the injectors from firing and only crank it over and not actually start.
I'm looking at buying a gen 1 3.5 should I make it a general rule to put the pedal to the floor until the oil pressure gauge starts to move as you describe above???? If that will stop the wear due to lack of lubrication on start up it seems like common sense. But I am not real firmilliar with the differences between gen1 and gen 2 3.5l engines. Figured I'd better ask!!!
Hello we have a ford 3.5 eco boost with cold start rattle. We changed the old phasers for the new updated ones, now there is not any noise but we get the P0017 failure. What can we do?
Unfortunately that means the timing was not done properly, marks aren't in the correct position on bank 1 (passenger side). Going to have to take it back apart and re time the engine making sure the timing chain links are exactly where they're supposed to be, with no slack/loose spots.
