Ford 3.5 EcoBoost Cold Start Rattle | The New Updates You Need To Know About (Cam Phaser Noise) 

Thank you!!!

Thank you!!

Thank you! It sounds to me that you need to have your phasers replaced when you take it back for reverting. That should solve your rattle issues.

mann i have a 2015 3.5 tt bought used eith 18k miles now at 90k miles ive been using the wthod of turning the key and not starting it until i stop hesring the chime and i se the gauge go up a bit no rattles here i change my oil every 4k miles and ocasianally drive like a bat out of hell hope to get another 75k miles out of it before trade in

Thank you! I’m located in atmore AL. My email is mdunsford90@gmail.com if you want to reach out.

@@FlyingWrenches13 dude I'm not far from you in cantonment FL. Are you at the dealership in atmore? Next time I have an issue I'll have to drop it off with y'all.

@@MrTaylorfenoglio yes sir I’m in atmore! Shoot me an email if you need some work done. Mdunsford90@gmail.com

You are exactly right! Ford needs to read that comment because 99% of customers feel just like you.

Hope you have more knowledge after the vidja!

Thank you for the input! Glad to hear you got it running better.

Good to know. Having the -08 done next week!

Where was your shutter at? Mine seems to have a slight shutter right off of idle as i begin accelerating. Happens for like 1 second when I initially apply throttle and then its gone but its very subtle. I can't tell if its the engine or the Toyo AT3s

Had cam phasers replaced at 30,000. Then had the 21b10 update done. Had really bad shuttering, Bogging down, gears staying in 9th-10th on slight inclines or even slower speeds of 25 to 30mph. Took back to ford 3 days latter, they replaced cam phasers again. Trucks does run better, but still has some of same conditions of the 21b10 update. Just doesn't seem to be same as it used to be. Don't know if they reprogrammed back the 21n08. Dealer service writers says trucks got the latest update in it. Cant seem to get an answer on which updates in truck after phaser replacement. When you say reprogrammed back to 21n08, are you meaning like in a utube video I saw them on a laptop going through items with the 21b10 update. They came to a page that said, does truck exhibit shutter or no shutter. If tech says yes truck has shutter, will that put truck back to 21n08, or will they have to put it in differently or something else. great video, you did good!

I had the same start up rattle. One way to solve it is hold the gas pedal all the way down while cranking the engine for about3 seconds to build pressure, then release it. But, a better way is to use Lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer with full synthetic oil and the startup rattle when away. I will do this with every oil change from now on.

Thank you!

Great info! Thanks!

Thanks! Holding accelerator to the floor does work. Only issue I have with that is explaining to customers that in their 60k dollar truck they have to hold the gas pedal to the floor and crank there engine for a few seconds every time it’s cold to prevent the rattle.

@@FlyingWrenches13 Why can't ford do an ECM update that just lets the truck crank for 2 seconds before it fires the ignition so the phasers get oil pressure first?

@@FlyingWrenches13 Doesn't work for me, even did it twice (all the battery would allow) before letting it start. 2013 with 115k, had 89k when it started

Bought my 2011 f150 3.5 in 2018 with 127k miles. It now has 164k miles and I haven’t heard the start up rattle yet. I change the oil every 3-5k with full synthetic MobilOne and Motorcraft filter. I’ve had the 6R80 tranny issues fixed on an extended warranty I purchased with the vehicle. Should I stay with it or should I go? Wrestling with that question.

​@@johnsteele8382i just bought a 2009 expedition 268k..runs great... quiet motor..sad this eco.boost motor they came up with.. gluck

I've had ESP coverage from the start. Doesn't help - the dealers just push you down the road and won't actually utilize it. It's like pulling teeth trying to get them to look further into my cam phaser issue.

if you don't end up using your ESP coverage by the time it expires you can ask the finance department at the purchasing dealer to cancel it. the only catch is that the vehicle has to be paid off but you can get that money back in the end.

My 2017 f150 3.5l ecoboost also has the belt squeal at startup when cold until I start driving it never drove in to that issue yet as I've only had the truck for about 6 months but I'm going to try using some belt dressing spray and see if that works as for the dealerships I don't think the problem is isolated to ford I've heard of horror stories about all makes, unfortunately they seem to just want there money from the initial sale not even considering how far word of mouth goes 🤷🏻‍♂️

First I want to say thanks for the compliments! It sounds like you have just found a dealer who doesn’t care about customer satisfaction. While it is true they don’t have to accept esp work, no dealer ever turns away business or at least none I’ve worked at. As bad as it is to say I would find somewhere else to take my vehicle and I would be calling FMC to complain.

@@FlyingWrenches13 I'm on my 3rd dealer already from them not wanting to try to get to the bottom of the issue. What really sucks is appointments are 2-4 weeks out, and when I get the truck there for me appointment they appear to have only made the appointment to acknowledge there's an issue and make me set up a NEW 2nd appointment to rectify the issue. Then when I get the vehicle back... same problem exists. When I push for something more to be done that's when I get the run around. I had to fight to get exterior amber and red led lights replaced, even though I paid extra to have exterior light protection with the ESP. When I say fight, I mean they told me "Ford" denied the claim. After asking what the hell I paid for then, they finally miraculously replaced them. 3 dealers? I'm not a jerk to these employees either. It just appears as though they could care less about warranty/ESP work.

@@RichardTurlington I have the same problem. I have offered to pay cash for the entire repair....they turned me 👇

Thank you! Comments like this keep me motivated to make more videos.

I have a 2016 Expedition with a 5 star tune and I monitor as well. I have a low temp tstat, and big IC. This vehicle is 80% a tow rig and it just started to make the noise on cold start after sitting for a while. Low miles around 45k. Have you found a relation between oil weight or brand in your experience or research? I am curious because this started after I switched brand. It seems that some folks have found better experience by using 5-40w or adding something like 1qt Lucas oil. I've also read about using Mobil 1 Delvac 5w-40. Are the phasers for the 1st gen 3.5 using a similar design to the new 2nd gen phaser? Anything else you want to update here would be greatly appreciated.

Also interested in above question 👀

​@@kevinblack8584 Regarding oil, while I read a lot online about using X-brand and X-weight, the reality is that, on my own truck anyway, it made it to about 130k miles on a hodgepodge of quick-lube oil changes and only relying on the oil-change-indicator (everything you're NOT supposed to do). This was all from the previous owner. When I had the phasers replaced back at ~137k miles, the engine looked clean! If someone said "this person used Amsoil the entire time" I would have believed it. There was clearly no sign of oil being the cause of any problem. Once I took the truck, I went full synthetic. Now granted, the previous owner never towed - freeway only miles. I'm sure that helped. But in general, I wouldn't focus or worry on brand, but rather focus on using full synthetics. These trucks cook (literally) the oil via the turbo's, especially when working hard. Oils that are good with high heat and fuel dilution are optimal. Dino oils 'burn' (I'm using that term very loosely) around 200-250 degrees. Synthetics meanwhile are often 400+. I know I just got done saying that the last owner used random oils and it looked clean inside, but again they weren't towing. The oil stayed 'cool.' If you're towing heavy or up steep grades, synthetic is what you want. (this is not me saying it will prevent the phaser issue though - I'm just talking general tips here). Regarding weight - I've only ever used 5/10w-30 but I wouldn't be opposed to 40 in high heat and towing situations. It's similar to marine applications - in that ambient temps and use-case should decide your weight. Manuals don't say that because the general public these days don't understand enough about engines, plus all the focus anymore is on maximizing MPG, so they try and keep it very simple, but that doesn't mean the rules do not apply. A high-heat condition tow situation will benefit from 40wt. Don't be fooled by online talk on 'tight clearances' in engines. Yes it's true modern engines have tight clearances, however a 40wt in high heat high stress will in fact thin to a 30wt (not to mention many 40wt oils test similarly, viscosity-wise, to 30wt). What I'm saying is, it's not a large enough jump to cause issues. Now that said, my truck has 173k miles and has only ever seen 30wt oil, but in the 100+ summers and while towing, the 40wt certainly wouldn't be a bad idea. In fact, I should probably do it.. I just haven't because the thought of changing it back to 30wt in the winter (assuming it wasn't due for an oil change already) is too much of a hassle lol. Will it affect the phaser situation though? No not likely. The phasers have a design issue that if present, can't be saved by oil. Is brand the reason for your recent issue? No, I wouldn't say it is. If the truck has a previous version of the phasers, then it's going to likely fail. If you look at a failed phaser, you can tell it wasn't due to a lubrication issue. The kit you want to use (for the newest phasers) is: BL3Z-6D256-C. I haven't seen many (if any) reports of failed phasers after this newest kit was used. You can search that kit number on forums and see that often the topic goes "cold" after users replace with those (presumably because the issue hasn't returned.) The 1st gen phasers are not the same as the 2nd gen. HOW are they different? I don't know. I just know that they ARE different because the part numbers are different. Also, oddly, the gen2's still see phaser issues, whereas the gen 1's (once using the newest part numbers) generally don't. So one would assume the gen2's aren't using the gen1's latest phasers. Lastly, as a temporary solution to the rattle, you can always prime them before starting. Put your gas pedal to the floor (with the engine off), hold it there, and then crank (with the pedal down). This is a diagnostic-mode that will allow the engine to crank without starting. Do that for 5-10 seconds, then release, and start as normal. By then the phasers will have been 'primed' and you shouldn't get rattle. That said, I would still get them replaced, because if they're making the rattle, it also likely means they're not advancing/retarding optimally either (which was the case with mine). Which might not be a big deal in everyday driving, but if you find yourself climbing a steep hill with a heavy load on a hot day, and the phasers aren't reacting quickly enough, you can see some BAD (like, worse than you've ever heard) pinging/detonation.. ask me how I know! :) What oil do I use? I run either Pennzoil Plat/Ultra or Rotella "Gas truck" full synthetic. Both these oils contain high-quality additive packages and are also designed for gas GDI engines (better handling of fuel dilution, soot from direct injection, etc). I do not run Mobil 1 in turbo applications, because I have found that it tests generally thinner (after being used) and sheers quicker than other oils. I haven't tested this in the case of my f150 but I've found it to be true in my other/previous turbo vehicles. Perhaps the newest formulations are better in that regard, but I wouldn't know. I'm sure it's fine - they're a major leading brand. I believe Mobil 1 has good cold-flow properties, but for me personally that isn't relevant as I live in a scorching-hot region.

@@yoster77 I want to thank you for your thoughtful and precise answer. You are a gem. I hope you have a great day

Thank you!!

Thank you!

Thanks for the info! Glad to hear you have a good dealer.

Thank you! That sounds like a terrible situation. With that many ford vehicles you would think Ford would be doing something about getting them fixed!

Yeah that’s a very good idea!

It’s all money my dude

Thank you!!!

Yeah I’m not sure what’s going on. The 21b10 recall doesn’t even have us drive them afterwards to check for the shudder because apparently it’s “in rare instances”. Not sure why they would have done that other than trying to bleed ford for some more money in labor.

Thank you! Have the 21B10 done and phasers replaced if it’s rattling. I’m not real familiar with the code on your other issue. I’d have to do some digging to see what thats about. After 21B10 and phaser replacement if you have any shudder with it just simply take it back and have it reprogrammed back to original. Hope this helps!

No sir, I haven’t seen them yet. I’ll check into it though.

Thanks!!

Thank you!! If you haven’t ever had the phasers replaced it will most likely at some point start rattling. I wouldn’t worry about any damage caused by the shutter. All that’s happening is oil bleeding by the mega cap causing the cam to shudder.

The 21+ engines are different and don’t have this issue! Thank you!

Wastegate rattle is a normal characteristic of these trucks. Almost every one of them does it. The cam phaser rattle on the other hand is much much louder. Thanks!

@@FlyingWrenches13 Thanks Mason!! Keep up the work!! We appreciate it!!

That method works. The only reason I don’t encourage people to do that is because I believe a $60K truck should crank without making noise without having to do anything other than turn the key.

Thanks for the info! That makes sense about the programming being preventative and not a actual fix!

So some people are going out of pocket 3-4k to fix a non harmful short lived cold start rattle?

@@bigpicturethinking5620 I believe our dealership charges closer to 2-3 k. But yes, they do for one or more of the following reasons 1. It sounds so bad that they don’t believe it’s harmless. 2. The service writers don’t tell them it’s harmless. 3. They’re simply embarrassed by the noise and are willing to pay to get rid of it. But others simply deal with it.

Other than the rattle, they really aren’t bad trucks. If you take care of it you won’t have any issues!

Thank you!!

Let us know what you find!

@@FlyingWrenches13 is there a way to lock the phasers like on the 5.4 3 valve? Just curious if this is an option or if it would hurt the engine?

Might burn the starter up eventually.

It has been nearly a year and 12,000 miles since I started using the flood start method and I only get a slight rattle, even when the temperature is in the 20's. I think a lot of my problem stems from the previous owner not changing the oil and/or using the wrong oil and filter. I had the Ford dealership change the oil using Motocraft synthetic oil before I took delivery. This may not have anything to do with the phasers, but they failed to empty the aftermarket oil catch can which separates oil from the unburned gas before it is recycled in the intack manifold. Mine was full beyond the baffle so it was recyclying the crud and was doing more harm than good. I changed the oil again at 5,000 miles but this time I used a full synthetic oil (I can't remember the brand) and made sure to empty and clean the catch can. My phaser ratter was still their but was improving. I changed it again after another 5,000 miles but this time I used Mobil 1 High Mileage full synthetic oil with an OEM Motocraft filter. I chose Mobil 1 because my next door neighbor works for a company that supplies the chemicals that the various oil brands use. He said thay many brands substitute formula components because of cost and supply chain issues but that Mobil insists upon an exact match to keep their product consistent. I also watched the Project Farm comparison of high mileage oils and Mobil 1 high milage came out on top. I chose the OEM Motocraft filter because it seems to have a better design for ensuring that oil can quickly flow through the filter. However, it does not have as much filtration material as more expensive brand and will not last as long. I am 2,500 miles into this oil change and only use the flood start when the temperature drops below freezing. I get a slight rattle when the temperature is in the 20's without the flood start. But there is no rattle when I use the flood start. Also, I'm not concerned about harming the starter because it only takes a few seconds for the oil pressure gauge to read OK. The bottom line for me is that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Thank you! Don’t worry about it to much, it can be permanently fixed by replacing those phasers.

You are correct! Newest update was after the making of this video.

Yes, please send it to me. I had my phasers replaced, no more rattle but my car is in service again. i had 51k miles when phasers were replaced and when I hit 63k miles my truck started acting weird, knocking in rear end, shifting very weird, misfires, engine light engine codes p0018, p0021. I took my truck to ford service and they told me I need new engine. This is ridiculous having 63k miles and new engine. One of the tech said they inserted the camera to inspect the head and cylinders and told me cylinder 6 was wet and scoring. Most likely fuel or coolant. They want me to pay for new engine, but I am not gonna let this happen. Car was running perfectly fine, engine was rattling so they messed up something.

Yeah that surely sounds like a bad situation. The next step in repairing the truck is probably going to be taking a oil pressure reading at the back of the heads to see if you have a oil supply problem. Most likely you do which can only be repaired by replacing head or engine depending on which is causing the low oil pressure.

I've heard oil pickup tubes screen gets clogged which cause low pressure.

Yeah I haven’t seen the new phasers yet but I heard they changed them. Thanks for posting this info!

Did Lucas help on your lite startup rattle?

All great info! Thanks for sharing.

No reason to be nervous. Worst case scenario you get your phasers replaced under warranty and have no more issues!

@@FlyingWrenches13 the reason I’m nervous is because of what probably causes the the phasers to go out . Worried about Long term health of my motor . If there is restriction in the heads and causing scoring

21’s are different I think. They dont rattle

This update doesn’t apply to the older 3.5’s. Only the 17-20 models. As far as mulling oil pumps go I wouldn’t. Stock oil pump does just fine especially on the older models.

Thank you!

Thanks you, glad I could help!! Hate to hear your having so many issues with it. Maybe they will get it fixed this go around.

did powertrain warranty cover this for you ?

Yes it has been covered by power train warrenty.