Former MI5 & MI6 Heads On The Iraq War, Double Agents & Today's Best Secret Services | The Two Spies

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What is it like to be a spy in real life? Do you get an Aston Martin like James Bond 007? Should spies be allowed to break the law while undercover? What should the relationship between government and intelligence look like? Do we overestimate or underestimate the power and reach of Russia's FSB and China's intelligence service?
On today's special episode of Leading, Rory & Alastair are joined by Eliza Manningham-Buller and John Sawers to discuss what it's really like to lead MI5 and MI6, respectively.
This episode was recorded before the IS-Khorasan attack in Moscow.
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00:00 Intro
02:10 How Eliza and John were recruited into the secret service
08:45 The personality types that make a good spy
12:47 How the threat from terrorism has changed over the years
15:34 Managing the intelligence services during the Iraq War
26:42 Successful operations & double agents
37:17 Popular spy representation - does it help or hinder recruitment?
40:02 Post 9/11 intelligence operations
44:55 The UK's biggest objective in counter terrorism today
51:21 Why not just overthrow a corrupt regime?
54:27 Thoughts on China/Taiwan, Russia/Ukraine & Gaza/Israel & Trump
1:04:10 Worst case scenario in the next 5-10 years
1:06:55 What are you optimistic about?
1:09:05 De-brief

Опубликовано:

17 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 1,5 тыс.

@LeadingTRIP 3 дня назад

All NEW Leading interviews can be found on our dedicated Leading RU-vid channel 👉youtube.com/@leadingtrip?si=Ax6Z3UVMUKatKnsp

@scottblack9213 Месяц назад

Campbell hosting this particular podcast is the equivalent of Alec Baldwin being judge and jury in his own personal manslaughter trial.

@UK_Ash 25 дней назад

💯💯💯

@redmed10 13 дней назад

How so?

@epistulaexmortuus 13 дней назад

Lol you assume the party to be way more cohesive and autocratic than it is. Opinions internal and external from members are not necessarily the same. A good party member in the uk follows the party line regardless of their own feelings or opinion welcome to first past the post politics

@mattliamjack3293 9 дней назад

Boris johnson going to party in italy with kgb agent without telling security should be in çourt being a traotor..like trump showing secrets to foreigners. Both traitors.

@Time12345A Месяц назад

"IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 911" MY HEART BLEEDS FOR ALL THE INNOCENT SOULS THAT LOST THEIR LIVES IN THAT ILLEGAL AND FALSE WAR!!! 💔

@neiltitmus9744 Месяц назад

That's what everyone was saying at the time but we're told there was sensitive information we could not see that confirmed that Iraq had wmd ,at that point I said to mys3lf OK but if not then you are all for it .these people still have not payed this bill and probably never will.5hen USA wanted Tony Blair to be middle east envoy you can't make this up.lol

@canadiangemstones7636 Месяц назад

What about the Kuwaiti’s? Your heart feel anything for them?

@Pauliewalnuts_822 Месяц назад

@@canadiangemstones7636Are you seriously taking that position still after everything the anti war movement said is, and was, 100% accurate? Give your head a wobble.

@Time12345A Месяц назад

@canadiangemstones7636 What does Kuwait have to do with the fabricated Iraq war that cost more than a million innocent people their lives and homes? How do you feel so many people losing their lives/livelyhood, I wonder?

@Time12345A Месяц назад

@@Pauliewalnuts_822 ♥️

@robert-gs4ih Месяц назад

How Campbell has the bare faced cheek to discuss Iraq is beyond me. He has no shame but then again, we all knew that.

@chindit6784 Месяц назад

Because one of the spies were literally involved in the new Iraqi government. You would complain if he had said something or said nothing.

@LowlierThanThow Месяц назад

Exactly what I was thinking. How preposterous; the sheer audacity of Alistair Cambell. Shamelessness taken to new levels here.

@robert-gs4ih Месяц назад

@@LowlierThanThow Him, Blair and Brown should be totally embarrassed to show their faces in public.

@farzanamughal5933 Месяц назад

You'd rather he was silent about the topic?

@chindit6784 Месяц назад

@@farzanamughal5933 these people will complain whatever he says.

@theresabates6058 Месяц назад

I forced myself to Listen to this excellent discussion as I loathe Campbell. The brass neck of him to sit there not acknowledging his part in the lies surrounding 9/11. What a treasure Eliza is

@Thewestisthevirus Месяц назад

Same here. She knows about Campbell and is giving him a slap

@amnaali2688 Месяц назад

They are all threat to the world. Every single one of them sitting on this panel.

@Gunni1972 Месяц назад

@@Thewestisthevirus You call that a slap? Once the Empirical mindset takes a foothold again, you will notice that it usually is delivered by a whip. She is afraid of trump, because he threatens to take away that whip, and use it for HIS agenda.

@colinstewart1432 Месяц назад

Her father was a Nuremburg judge, I believe. Her credentials are flawless.

@lw1zfog Месяц назад

@@colinstewart1432 hmmmm, did he sentence Fritz ter Meer ?

@PhillipHilton Месяц назад

The quality of the guests on this podcast and the maturity of the conversations is breathtaking. It's absolutely fascinating to listen to guests of this standard being interviewed in such a capable manner.

@stephenhardy312 Месяц назад

I agree completely with your comments. A very articulate, well-informed and worldly contribution

@ninopavkovic9382 Месяц назад

Morally seen, those individuals from the British Sectret Services, are the equivalent of the agent Smith from the movie "Matrix". Only in the domestic bubble they appear like somebody positive. For the rest of the world, they are wrongdoers of the worst category.

@ghotio1927 Месяц назад

They're literally spies who lie and cheat for a living and you trust what they're saying ? more fool you sir

@MarkSiosal Месяц назад

1:08:39 1:08:39

@CallousCarter Месяц назад

@@stephenhardy312 Thery'e certainly articulate but I don't think they're well informed or insightful. With Intel chiefs like these it doesn't surprise me that we are continuing to lurch from one self made strategic disaster to another.

@mandyshanks2327 Месяц назад

I wish Alistair would admit that he was indirectly involved in the death of Dr Kelly. He has no sense of guilt.

@tommyi6667 Месяц назад

I agree regarding Dr Kelly but in the kindest possible way, this is a podcast and even though we may pick up on items we never knew I would assume that Alastair and moreover were and are under the Secrets Act, we will all be dead and buried and even then our great, great grandchildren possibly will not know. Is it justified regarding Dr Kelly, No but as they say"we couldn't handle the truth ".

@DavidJohnson-yg8qm Месяц назад

They think we have forgotten this so called suicide.

@Gunni1972 Месяц назад

I wished Alistair would stop contradicting himself.1) "No. Regime change is not our aproach" Seriously? And not a minute later, he comes up with Which countries could be "added to the list" in which we did. 2) He sees Trump as a threat to NATO (When NATO is the USA's threat to everybody else) and a threat that Article 5 loses it's meaning. Well, how convenient is that? NOW, when Ukraine is losing, and actually NO one wants to support them. Same with Israel, who is slaughtering civillians, even foreign aid workers. USA is FULLY supporting it. And all because of a Pipeline from Gaza to Italy. because a certain Syrian "Dictator" did not want one built through his country. Also, Saddam had used his Chemical weapons in the Iran-Iraq war. They have an expiring date. So pretty much every "specialist" who knew they were used, also knew, there wouldn't be any anymore. Saddam was forced into that war by the USA, just like Zelensky. As a revenge for the revolution against their Shah. Alistair should at least tell half of the story, If he wants to "regain trust". He looks really bad. And to ethics and Morals i say: Regime change is often bloody. WHO is held accountable for such "Operations"? as it often contains MURDER, RAPE, INTIMIDATION and THEFT. And i am not even touching How the City of London, The IMF, and the ECB force nations into Debt traps,by trade agreements, which eventually leads to "certified Nutjobs" like Milei, in Argentina. Colonial Force Projection. THAT seems to have been YOUR JOB. Well hidden from Public, Alistair.

@colinstewart1432 Месяц назад

Many believe he leaked the name...🤔

@LeeGee Месяц назад

So no proof?

@davidlamb7524 Месяц назад

Virtually the whole country knew that. When Bush said "Iraq" we were all screaming at the telly "Wtf's Iraq got to do with it ?".

@frankmahoney1268 Месяц назад

OIL.

@davidlamb7524 Месяц назад

@@frankmahoney1268 Yes. And smoke-screen cover for the actual culprits.

@CYCHIATRIC Месяц назад

Well they're both spies and the other two are politicians. You don't expect them to tell the truth do you?

@annalehman93941 Месяц назад

@@frankmahoney1268you read my thoughts, how?

@Joe3pops Месяц назад

In Canada most Canadians, including our left leaning(marxist) prime minister smelled sh!te when George in 2003 turned the shell game from Afghanistan to Iraq. So glad Canada did not become involved in Iraq 2.0 family fued. Bush versus Saddam.

@junkbucket50 Месяц назад

You have to get Eliza back on she's so straight talking and no nonsense. It's like a breath of fresh air

@sherlockgnomes8971 Месяц назад

I wish we could have a PM like that 😂 not going to happen any time soon unfortunately😢

@richsan4923 Месяц назад

These cretins do far more harm than good and always have.

@sbwords Месяц назад

I felt she had more to say about Campbell and his cohorts distorting around Iraq. He won’t have her back and the tame Tory ex-spook is too timid to push the issue.

@henrytan5588 Месяц назад

British Intelligence is the longest agency and one of the best. The US started with the OSS from scratch and developed into the CIA . Yet the CIA still refer to the British Intelligence Stations around the world. But the UK should not be have a person like Edgar J Hoover. The ISI of Pakistan always tell the politicians that ISI is always there but not them.

@mspenelope6874 Месяц назад

Straight talking double agent. Yeah right.

@Hunchbacc Месяц назад

Wasn’t Campbell the one who made the invasion of Iraq “sexy” and got up on Newsnight lecturing us. I wish David Kelly was here to be asked some questions. Oh wait, that was Campbells first body.

@colintook3357 Месяц назад

Poor David Kelly would have been a great addition to the conversation here around Iraq, would have certainly got Campbell squirming.

@denythenaysayer Месяц назад

Kelly wasn't "working for the good of the country" so had to go....😉

@sherlockgnomes8971 Месяц назад

@@denythenaysayerHave some bleeding respect , your emoji just makes this comment very twisted.

@blondie7341 Месяц назад

Thank god someone else made this connection. I cannot believe Campbell is being praised here after that performance on Newsnight!! 🤬

@howwwwwyyyyy Месяц назад

@@sherlockgnomes8971I'm fairly sure David Kelly would have no problem with the use of an emoji when someone is clearly pointing out that he was murdered

@kesart8378 Месяц назад

"Mistakes were made," said an entree in the Understatement Of The Year competition.

@TheoverseasPakistani-sz1bb Месяц назад

Yeah 😂. What a bunch of lies they speak even now. They all.knew it was an illegal war back then.

@YA-hm5zy Месяц назад

No mistakes all calculated and planned. With the complicity of the media.

@rob14 Месяц назад

Yet they continue with their stupidity with the anti trump propaganda and ignoring reality.

@c.jjohns6758 Месяц назад

Mistake? Sure. And Biden is just bad at his job

@colinstewart1432 Месяц назад

Presumably mistakes by someone. The use of the passive tense is particularly annoying.

@studiophantomanimation Месяц назад

I think this is my favourite RU-vid video. As a Secondary School pupil, I really liked Eliza Manningham-Buller and don't care about her background. She cut through crap like a hot knife.

@janwoldens1696 Месяц назад

😂the "nukes" threat of Iraq was Sadam's petroleum export in currencies other than the USD

@sulevisydanmaa9981 Месяц назад

As w Khad ...

@ramseyr2852 28 дней назад

Definitely it was one.

@alexanderjacobs1945 Месяц назад

It’s scary that they’re sitting there constantly avoiding the fact that ALISTAIR CAMPELL was instrumental in confusing and supporting the event that led to Iraq. Be sure to remember that all the analysis of this horrible conflict (on HIS podcast) will only seek to exonerate himself

@Lattakeoff Месяц назад

You don’t think they may have supported his view at the time or been complicit in the whole sorry saga ...?

@jodywho6696 Месяц назад

That is 1 reason for putting Bush jr. and Cheney in prison. It absolutely had nothing to do with 9/11

@Stillmorning Месяц назад

Maybe Campbell can do a stint with them

@dougieranger Месяц назад

And Tony Blair.

@rogerroger9927 Месяц назад

Sorry those are liars. USA and UK knew that Iraq had nothing to do with9/11 and Iraq had no WMD. They invaded Iraq for 2 raison; 1 for the oil and 2 to destroy military power ( remember that USA and UK armed Iraq against Iran).

@pauldeanda7100 20 дней назад

That will be the day!

@delharry4392 Месяц назад

Mistakes, millions died a mistake That's why we are hated Mistakes were made Unbelievable

@keesverhagen9227 Месяц назад

No mistakes. The same as what They did in Iran and Ukraine. The US and the UK combined equels Evil.

@samanthagarbettcharles4205 Месяц назад

They make ya sick ,a mistake ! 😢

@naijaman6639 Месяц назад

When you make this point, thèy call you names and try to smear you. Terrible hypocrites. Shameless RU-vid, I await your acts of deleting.

@luchseterna Месяц назад

English are so incredibly self loathing. You should look clearly what other countries have done. Past is in the past. For me as a foreigner Great Britain was a great empire and now a great land suffering from self destroying politics.

@LeeGee Месяц назад

If we were hated we'd not have problematic immigration, legal or otherwise

@rhobatbrynjones7374 Месяц назад

This is probably the most intelligent and fascinating broadcast that The Rest is Politics has ever done.

@alanbarker2279 Месяц назад

It certainly had a lot do with Intelligence... 😛

@gammamaster1894 Месяц назад

The absolute cheek of Alastair Campbell to sit there talking about Iraq and dishonesty in politics.

@robstones1978 Месяц назад

"Too much focus was placed on individual intelligence sources." They knew this at the time and went ahead because Blair promised Bush that British involvement in Iraq part two was a go. A million people marched in the UK....

@TheoverseasPakistani-sz1bb Месяц назад

Yes absolutely, they knew it then. Now they are just trying to squirm their way out of it by twisting words and just plain lying 🤥

@howwwwwyyyyy Месяц назад

Nothing new

@rosella1919 Месяц назад

Australia’s Prime Minister Howard, followed his fan boy; George W, into that war. We had no right to be there. 🇦🇺

@TM-rq3jp Месяц назад

So many people died in iraq and afganistan and libiya as a result of war on terror. What about nuclear wealons of isreal

@owaisahmad7841 Месяц назад

USA was leader of gang of tugs comprising USA, UK, Australia and few others. UK went on to elect the legendary US lapdog Blair again !

@benjaminrich9396 Месяц назад

It is only due to the quality of these two guests that I could stomach an hour and a quarter of a conversation in which Alastair Cambell was present.

@honeyflower7754 28 дней назад

Absolutely agree; I cannot stomach ‘Squealer’ from Animal Farm. No wonder he is racked with guilt and in therapy.

@katejones2172 Месяц назад

I don't know how Campbell has got the gall to sit there & discuss Iraq

@michellegilder1558 Месяц назад

They keep diverting when it gets too close to him …..as he squirms in his seat

@Amarjeet1970 Месяц назад

EMB came across as knowledgeable and formidable. Glad that she was forthright in calling out the hoax that was Iraq & I noticed Alistair keeping mum at that point.

@PauloAdriano-zo2ng Месяц назад

Any chance average Iraqi citizens could sue the British & American governments for reparations? 🤔

@parkgate-ub1ey Месяц назад

@PauloAdriano-zo2ng and where would that money come from? Tax payers ? Then no thanks we pay far too much

@user-wd6ni4xu4n Месяц назад

These people I don’t know about the lady but laughing after being part of and causing the deaths of over 2 million civilians and I forget how many children died of starvation. The British and western media forgot to tell us. Is disgraceful. If America and British acted honestly with other countries instead of stealing their natural resource there would not be a need for spy’s. It’s the bullying that other countries can’t accept.

@mattblack6736 Месяц назад

The way Eliza teleported out of the studio was most impressive.

@billder2655 Месяц назад

like yoda in episode 6😂

@kenrunciman8706 Месяц назад

Campbell was complicit in the great deception. His levels of self-deception are beyond measurement.

@Dcc-yk2lo Месяц назад

I'm sure you have some evidence? Feel free to post it. Why was he cleared of wrongdoing in all of the Inquiries about the Iraq war?

@craigpruess5565 Месяц назад

@@Dcc-yk2lo- getting the gov’t to investigate itself never works, despite all the smug appearances of an “independent investigation”… 🤣🤣🤣

@user-mr8zr9kk4t Месяц назад

Blair didn’t care that Iraq didn’t have WMDs, he just wanted to become rich and famous.

@howwwwwyyyyy Месяц назад

He was already rich and famous, there's much more to it than that, one day it'll be made clear

@captain_nero Месяц назад

@@howwwwwyyyyy I heard he is due to take on WEF looool

@Gunni1972 Месяц назад

@@howwwwwyyyyy It is clear: You can hear what he admires with the chinese: Collecting power, and Project power. He should work in an S/M studio.

@colinstewart1432 Месяц назад

The truth proved inconvenient to his political ambition. So one million dead Iraqis later, the undead ghoul called Tony Blair still roams the earth. He sits atop a throne of skulls.

@vinozarazzi5633 Месяц назад

Blair is a member of Bilderberg

@Yossarian_Lives73 Месяц назад

She didn’t fall “into” MI5 by charnce! You went to the “right” school, had the “right” family, “right” connections. You’re the establishment protecting the establishment. Someone taps me in the shoulder at a “dinner party” it’s to tell me there’s no beer left in the fridge.

@chevalierdupapillon Месяц назад

Exactly. She is the daughter of a former Lord Chancellor, Viscount Dilhorne, and of his wife who was an earl's daughter. All of her eight great-grand-parents were from titled families (a duke's daughter, an earl, two earl's daughters, a baron from the younger line of a ducal family, a baron's grand-daughter, a baronet and a baronet's younger son). She then went first to Benenden School, an independent boarding school placed in a country house, and after that studied English at Oxford. All these things taken together (plus of course a million close family or friendly relationships with people in influential positions) would have made her someone whom the recruiting person could immediately have recognised as 'one of us'.

@maccamcfcflc Месяц назад

Spot on man

@frankmahoney1268 Месяц назад

@@chevalierdupapillon one of us,umm,,,.the key for entry,,,.

@jimmy6283 Месяц назад

@@chevalierdupapillonyes they all stay together, familys name is everything

@jameslong9921 Месяц назад

@@chevalierdupapillonWell said Mr Butterfly.

@suhailski Месяц назад

Get the two spies their own podcast: rest is espionage?

@robc8892 Месяц назад

Or the the rest is classified 🤣

@suhailski Месяц назад

@@robc8892 hahah, your title is way better than mine.

@DCMamvcivmEvony Месяц назад

Would be awesome. A podcast along similar lines that you may enjoy is called "the hacker and the fed". A podcast where an ex black hat hacker and the FBI agent that dealt with his case and prosecuted him discuss all things hacking, cybersecurity, scams etc. Its pretty good.

@Thewestisthevirus Месяц назад

Yes!

@SpiritOfMontgomery Месяц назад

@@robc8892the rest is [redacted]

@crowbar9566 Месяц назад

The lack of shame from the 2 presenters is absolutely breathtaking. One a political propagandist who promoted the illegal invasion and the other one got to live out his victorian fantasy of being a British colonial governor as part of the illegal occupation.

@lw1zfog Месяц назад

hilarious isn’t it

@wanderlustchap Месяц назад

As Eliza insinuated the Iraq Dossier was Campbell’s (bullying) work…

@reginaldamoah8608 Месяц назад

I think the child who brought up Lumumba was spot on how confident are we that we've been on the right side of history. Also getting a job via a tap on the shoulder at dinner party wow!

@nomsashezi9775 Месяц назад

That tap on the shoulder really made me pause…either WOW or she is having a laugh at us

@casteretpollux Месяц назад

Britain is a class society.

@kingeddiam2543 Месяц назад

That was a long time ago, though im sure it still probably happens to some extent

@richardfraser1562 Месяц назад

Thanks all. Such a pleasure to listen to thoughtful people taking like adults.

@chrispalmer7893 Месяц назад

Slightly confused why the quote "Iraq had nothing to with 9/11" is the thumbnail. Isn't that a bit like quoting someone as saying that on a sunny day the sky is blue? Are there really still (sane) people who are unclear about that?

@danjones4551 Месяц назад

I just want to add that water is wet

@Joe-og6br Месяц назад

In America it was really pushed on the public that they were linked. In the UK it was WMD.

@ferozabismilla637 Месяц назад

@@Joe-og6brand I am sure that only in America, do some people still think that, that is still the case

@LeeGee Месяц назад

It's the source of the quote that is significant. Tsk....

@chrispalmer7893 Месяц назад

@@LeeGee Doesn't matter who said it if all that was said is a banal truism. It might be interesting if the person saying it was contradicting their previous position (it would be extremely newsworthy if Dick Cheney or George W Bush was saying it - well, Cheney, anyway, Bush probably has admitted it at some point). But the ex-head of MI5 saying now what they were saying then and what has been accepted for decades is unremarkable. At the risk of talking myself out of this, maybe it's remarkable that she felt she had to say it? It suggests she thinks there is a signfiicant number of people who still believe Saddam was behind 9/11. Beyond the reality that there are always lunatics and idiots I'm not convinced those people exist, but maybe she thinks they do?

@ianjames3078 Месяц назад

Rory backtracking rapidly after being called out for exaggerating was a gem.

@SamMerchant-vn4or Месяц назад

Alistair sitting innocently like he never advocated for the war, never rounded up the troops

@benwilson6145 Месяц назад

He was not a member of hr Government, he was an advisor,

@dilonkumar4960 Месяц назад

@@benwilson6145oh please his hands are drenched in blood like yours ,let’s see how you would react if children are killed

@benwilson6145 Месяц назад

@@dilonkumar4960 Remove your head from your bottom and pretend to have a brain!

@heycidskyja4668 Месяц назад

@@benwilson6145 That makes his actions worse rather than excuse him.

@ftumschk Месяц назад

Leaving the "advocacy" aside, he certainly never rounded up any troops.

@mandyshanks2327 Месяц назад

Campbell was wrong. I wish he would admit it.

@andrewharrison7767 Месяц назад

I wish he'd be as vehement in his confession as he is whenever brexit gets raised

@casteretpollux Месяц назад

I wish he was in jail.

@Gazpacho8 Месяц назад

@@andrewharrison7767 I wonder if he regrets helping sink labour in 2019 considering how much he hates Johnston, oh dear if only there were an alternative!

@Du5ty999 Месяц назад

Loved the contrast between Eliza and John - one very clearly a straight-talking career Intelligence Officer and the other a very skilful diplomat.

@psy-op Месяц назад

Regime change because of US national security issues ? No, US corporate interests. Put things back together in Iraq after kulling 1 million people. Brushes over Libya that had no international debt, free hospitals, free University, free lots of things, Now Libya is in turmoil and in debt to American banks. These people digust me , they've got serious superiority issues.

@andyainsworth9804 Месяц назад

This podcast should be mandatory for secondary school students. Its so refreshing to hear intelligent people having a well thought out conversation. Great episode :)

@user-lh8lk5wk5g Месяц назад

As a year 10 student, I agree

@PauloAdriano-zo2ng Месяц назад

@@user-lh8lk5wk5g 😉

@fghezelbash8731 Месяц назад

"intelligent people"?!!!!!

@Thewestisthevirus Месяц назад

They also need to know the history of what happened

@darrendrew1281 Месяц назад

One of the best videos I’ve watched in a long time, glued to the video from beginning to end. Well done chaps

@Pincer88 Месяц назад

Been listening with ever increasing amounts of respect. So good to listen to people who'd normally never seek the limelight.

@philipwhiuk Месяц назад

Amongst the best single podcast episode I've ever listened too. Thanks!

@yasmeensaleem9074 Месяц назад

Wow. I loved this! We need more openness and transparent honesty! In particular Eliza, respected her bluntness and honesty.

@FONASDeadlock Месяц назад

Given the litany of stupidity we hear from members of the current government, it's reassuring to hear the voices of informed experts.

@ianjames3078 Месяц назад

And our political leaders would rubbish our public servants given a risk to their egos.

@EppingBlogger Месяц назад

What a shame, then, that the security services allowed themselves to become handmaidens to the Blair lies to Parliament about a causus beli in Iraq.

@Burdetski Месяц назад

Dr Kelly RIP

@Du5ty999 Месяц назад

Easily the best Leading episode so far. Astonishingly frank and open - detail included I didn't think would be okay to mention. Shame there isn't a part 2.

@michaelladouceur8894 Месяц назад

Superb. Insightful. Engaging. Thank you all. BTW, I’d never heard of Eliza before - a real gem of a human being. I wish her more influence in the future.

@wiggles877 Месяц назад

Talking about difficult and interesting subjects. No screeching, no sermonizing. Just four grownups in a room talking, what a show! Maybe it will catch on...

@user-kl6os3gd5s Месяц назад

Corny

@wattyler6075 Месяц назад

Excellent interview with incredibly interesting guests.

@minton3647 Месяц назад

I’d just like to say this was one of the most interesting and informative podcasts I’ve ever listened to. Truly excellent stuff, thank you. I have a huge amount of respect for the people who work in military intelligence and devote their lives to the protection of our nation’s values.

@austerymn 6 дней назад

This was one of THE BEST podcasts I’ve ever seen. Incredibly informative

@harrygreenaway Месяц назад

"Are you writing the Labour Manifesto Alistair?" 😂 Eliza is superb.

@jackganley1787 Месяц назад

Amazing content! Keep it up lads

@roban28 Месяц назад

An incredibly good interview - really fascinating stuff!

@suederekfitz-gibbon7188 Месяц назад

Completely fascinating! So refreshing to listen to such high quality discussion from brilliant guests!

@truthseeker8581 Месяц назад

Two brilliant guests with their feet firmly on the ground! I thought we had lost such sensible folk!

@ferociousfrankie Месяц назад

Amazing episode again. The quality of this podcast is unmatched. Super insightful in a short amount of time. The candidness of these individuals compared to their U.S. counterparts is very much appreciated.

@PamelaC23 Месяц назад

Utterly brilliant. Thank you so much for this amazing interview.

@badgerisland72 Месяц назад

Fabulous interview and completely fascinating. Thanks guys!

@tonyaustin4472 Месяц назад

Interesting discussion. I keep banging on about Gaza/Israel and hoping someone, other than me, recognises that this crisis isn’t just about the Hamas atrocity; it is a continuation of events that started in the year I was born, 1948 and the Nakba. You displace a population that’s been there for hundreds of years, you steal their land, settle it with your own people; you oppress the refugees, you let Lebanese militias murder men, women and children in refugee camps, you even divert the water supplies away from their remaining land, you build walls round the small areas you’ve allowed them to retain, you let your settlers run riot, kill their animals, burn their orchards; the list goes on and on; and then, when the inevitable happens and they revolt, you murder men, women, children, foreign aid workers, medical staff; you even kill your own hostages who are trying to tell you that they are Israelis: this cycle of theft, atrocities, repression has to stop or be stopped. And if the Israeli State won’t act, won’t change; then the West has to. There are enough on both sides who recognise that the future has to be a viable Palestinian State and a viable Israeli State at peace with each other. Whether you are a Palestinian or an Israeli; that is the only humanitarian chance your children and grandchildren can have of living a decent secure life. If this isn’t sorted, and sorted soon, there will a massive war eventually in the Middle East with death and destruction on a scale far in excess of today. Now some folk will react to this by classifying me as anti-semitic. I have close friends on both sides: I grew up with friends who’s mothers and fathers survived the Concentration camps in Germany and Poland….so don’t jump to that antisemitic assumption please! It’s being used too often as a political excuse in my opinion. I am an old man and it grieves me to my soul to witness what I see happening day after day in Gaza, the West Bank and in Israel and to know just by bitter experience that it will happen again if wiser heads do not prevail…and if necessay do not enforce.

@khar12d8 Месяц назад

1948? The Romans burning down the temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD was when it started.

@Mounhas Месяц назад

I was also born in 1948 and only wish I had your clarity in expressing in what I think. For me, what has happened in Palestine is comparable to what happened to the native peoples of Australia, Canada & the USA.

@flangekiwi Месяц назад

Thank you for your eloquence and humanity ❤💔❤ For all our children and grandchildren, we must do better than this #OnePlanet 🌎

@ashhowardgolf3865 Месяц назад

And how about the Kurds?? Always conveniently forgotten

@catinthehat906 Месяц назад

The problem is a significant proportion of the Palestinian population don't want "a viable Palestinian State and a viable Israeli State at peace with each other". No surprise that the one election held in Gaza in the last 20 years elected a party whose stated intention was the destruction of Israel.

@huwjones1817 Месяц назад

Rare glimpse into our intelligence system....great episode.

@DailyDamage Месяц назад

What I truly enjoy about this channel - parroting other comments posted here - is the quality of both guests and the “grown up” conversations being held. We’re not all deaf and dumb to the realities of real politics. Thanks for treating us like adults. 😊

@kevancook2699 Месяц назад

Fascinating discussion. I could have listened for hours. Thank you

@PJM273 Месяц назад

Rory trying to pretend he isn't/wasn't 6 is quite funny ... :)

@jonathonjubb6626 Месяц назад

That answers a nagging question. It's not just me...

@robc8892 Месяц назад

If you read his book about walking across Afghanistan it is clear from.how he describes things he has had some sort of training by someone.....

@senorpillarblock3050 Месяц назад

@markdaly1648 I'll be honest, I'm deeply confused by both of your comments. Are you Irish or American? It'll help understand your comment

@realjprc Месяц назад

I always thought Rory was Mi6, why else would he have walked across Afghanistan if not for intelligence gathering? Just seemed so obvious to me that it didn’t need to be said. Also his connections worldwide.. it’s just so obvious

@markdaly1648 Месяц назад

@@senorpillarblock3050I'm Irish

@Kavala76 Месяц назад

51:54 "...they, by and large, are exceptions" 🤣 Sawer appeared to me to be sanitising of intelligence work, and this segment just confirmed it. Manningham-Buller seemed more genuine.

@casteretpollux Месяц назад

As the CIA guy said not so long ago " they taught us to lie and cheat". Secret services are by definition obliged to lie constantly.

@vertigohi114 19 часов назад

You can tell she’s enormously competent, mature, and likely ruthless. Exactly the type of dedicated person you’d want at the head of a service like MI6.

@Pricklyhedgehog72 Месяц назад

Absolutely riveting and an insightful analysis of world issues, while lifting the shroud covering the back room operations of international espionage and diplomacy.

@jimb9063 Месяц назад

Fabulous interesting guests, thank you.

@humphreybradley3060 Месяц назад

Your BEST one yet! Fantastic insight, questioning etc! Top quality, fascinating content!

@pdunderhill Месяц назад

Excellent interviews, thank you.

@martinheath5947 Месяц назад

Having read Spycatcher, the ideal character for someone to become head of our security agencies would be someone nobody could tell was a double agent.

@josephturner7569 Месяц назад

I was on a run ashore in Brixham from Courageous in 75. We were a sneaky boat. A young chap from MI5 joined us. Stood out like a sore thumb. (His mission was to find out how much of a security risk we were when drunk. Which is why he stood many rounds. Which was nice).

@thomaskositzki9424 Месяц назад

"Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11" Tell me something new. I was 21 in 2003 and from news coverage and my own (rather extensive) knowledge of politics and history it was perfectly clear to me that this is the case. Anyone disagreeing? To elaborate a little: after 1991 Desert Storm and the 1980 - 1988 Iran-Iraq war the country was economically and politically devastated. Huge dept, army shattered, infrastructure and industry either damaged or destroyed. Almost nothing left. On top of that Iraq had basically no allies and was under a looking glass from the UN and the major western powers. I don't see how they could have developed a sophisticated nuclear weapons programm at all. Much less one that could seriously threaten any of the western powers or Israel. Ah and on top of that, Saddam Husein was a facist, secular leader. Not exactly the type of guy Al Qaeda would work with. Just by connecting those dots, I knew the allegations of being a serios WMD threat to us or an terrorist state were BS.

@simjrob Месяц назад

Fantastic episode. Refreshing to hear such grown up discussion.

@Westerhousen Месяц назад

Best vlog cast I’ve seen in a while

@suhailski Месяц назад

I like my spies being as thoughtful as these two. They have served their country well. Brava and bravo!

@realjprc Месяц назад

Yeah all three spies in this episode were great

@benwilson6145 Месяц назад

Thank you best programme for years!

@garethwonham Месяц назад

What a brilliant episode. Exactly how interviews should be done

@kneelandub Месяц назад

This needs many more comments and likes, fascinating stuff

@laetitiavisagie-gg6kk Месяц назад

I like the little boy who asked about Patrice Lumumba (I am from South Africa) ❤

@TheSackblabbath Месяц назад

Eliza is excellent. Outstanding guests. Thanks, guys.

@eleanorb5976 Месяц назад

Love the old way of recruitment… when a university professor, a friend approaches you 👌🏻

@7...7...7 Месяц назад

This is a very informative podcast. Great content and very intelligent people speaking truths. Subscribed.

@cashew1 Месяц назад

You guys are spot on... Rory legend!

@peacefulpleb Месяц назад

Great discussion, well done for getting these two intelligence big beasts in a joint interview. Thanks.

@philipmulville8218 2 дня назад

Kudos to the producer who made Eliza Manningham-Buller rather fittingly disappear into thin air.

@forklaundry Месяц назад

Very interesting discussion, thank you everyone.

@hisdadjames4876 Месяц назад

Been a long time since Ive been proud to be British, so listening to these dedicated, clever and decent people - products of UK education, society and values - working at the core of UK public institutions -is a real revelation and morale-booster. Thanks. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

@TheSurrealWolf Месяц назад

Nicer listening to these people on st George's day rather than watching thus hugs in plastic armour outside Westminster

@davidLPST Месяц назад

Clearly you exclude Campbell from that statement

@TheSurrealWolf Месяц назад

@@davidLPST Talking about the guests noob

@davidLPST Месяц назад

@@TheSurrealWolf great, then I am with you because Campbell was up to his neck in that mess. BTW, not my first rodeo commenting on this podcast. Like many on here o can’t forgive him his role in that war.

@TheSurrealWolf Месяц назад

@@davidLPST I don't think I can forgive Starmers cowardice on Gaza either

@afetbinttuzani Месяц назад

Wonderful interview, as always, both in terms of the questions and the quality of the guests and their responses. I did find it amusing that John Sawers, when listing "America´s closest allies", failed to mention the US´s largest trading partner: Canada. 🙂

@peterreston6478 22 дня назад

An excellent forum including very experienced people who we rarely have an opportunity to listen to.

@oliverbergfeld1606 Месяц назад

Interesting to listen to these first hand insights and summaries of our more recent history. Basically they agree that much was fixed in the context of Iraq. One question of many that remain is, if the UK will ever find the backbone to go against US intentions. Looking at that episode it seems quite obvious, that the intelligence services were more a tool to rectify than to investigate thoroughly. To remain measured the latter seems a more sane approach as we in Europe are more often than not suffering the consequences of actions.

@RobBCactive Месяц назад

Like passing on the Vietnam war and protesting against the US invasion of Grenada?

@oliverbergfeld1606 Месяц назад

@@RobBCactive was the baton really passed on though or was it eagerly grasped by the US..? Not sure and honestly do not really care all that much. As for Grenada, the Monroe Doctrine did that for you

@casteretpollux Месяц назад

US strategy since the end of the USSR has been " Disaggregation of Europe". The negative outcomes of US actions on Europe / the UK, can't be assumed to be accidental. Europe, severed from Russian gas and oil, is now a set of vassal states to the US. Gaza as well as the Ukraine war is being wrecked in part in the struggle fro control of oil. .

@twometerpeter Месяц назад

This was a fantastic joint interview. My partner and I listened to it in silence during a recent car journey. It was bliss 😂 please do a part two!

@BritBike60 Месяц назад

Best interview I have heard this year!

@NoughtsAndCrossess Месяц назад

Wonderful conversation! Fantastic hosting of fantastically interesting guests!

@jz7692 Месяц назад

Listening now I find it ludicrous that there was not sufficient oversight to challenge the governments view, in order to avoid an occasion where a weapon expert felt they had to make a nuanced remark on the validity of evidence in consideration to their own assessment of Iraq's WMD capability. (The claims appeared to be quietly withdrawn as fast they were made, as if the projection in parliament was indeed for effect). The subsequent assault on public servants & institutions who basically questioned the logic were basically told 'it not in the national interest'. It therefore begged the question what was? The weakening of BBCs impartiality, to establish 'a yes men culture' arguably dismissed scrutiny to the point, the conditioning to be patronising for the listener. Tony Blair with his augments, did not make sense at the time! How to avoid conflict is supposed to be the key!

@lindaezekiel6872 Месяц назад

Another fascinating episode!

@callumw9067 Месяц назад

Have been lucky enough to hear both speak in the past but never together in that depth of conversation. That was very good. I did detect some gentle diplomacy in the interview room, re: Hutton report, I'm pretty sure many desk officers on both sides of the river were somewhat angry at that episode in UK history.

@markgemmell3769 Месяц назад

Fantastic interview. Incredible quality of discussion. RU-vid should be paying you 10x for delivering such content.

@markputnam6371 Месяц назад

Absolutely fascinating. Experience, integrity and intelligence on full display around the table. Could have listened to these wise folk for hours. Thanks to Rory & Alistair for this brilliant series.

@maddi3582 Месяц назад

Fabulous discussion. Thank you!

@howlingmocassin2917 Месяц назад

best yet, brilliant, thank you

@lakedistrict9450 Месяц назад

V interesting. Reassuring that these civil servants are intelligent and seemly competent. Sharp contrast to the politicians who think they are our leaders. Particularly appreciated their views on the Iraq war and the details from their observations.