Forward vs Backward Snorkel Head Performance? 

Cheers! We try to present facts here, not just opinions.

Thanks mate, after a short hiatus, I'm getting back into it and going to open a can of worms on the next one..... Keep an eye out! This one is going to upset everyone 😂

Glad the video helped!

Thanks mate, too much opinion out there on RU-vid, not enough testing!

@@LockyourHubs4WDing G'day mate, well done cant argue with the science. Have you had a chance to check what the forward facing ram head on a 4" down pipe tells you.

Honestly looks like an Aussie Jamie 🤣

Jamie who? Lol

@@LockyourHubs4WDing Jamie hyneman thr bloke from mythbusters 🤣

Cheers! Might look at the economy aspect futher down the track.

Thanks!

It's the Ultragauge www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/

Thanks!

It'll upset your mates 😁!

Thanks mate, I actually don't mind a little heavy metal/hard rock..... :) While I've got the new(ist) power up CD by acdc in the work truck, I think the last album I listened to was Come in and Burn by The Rollins Band! I might start using a little music for trip videos, so brace for impact!

Those 200s pull like a train even from low revs, you definelty don't want to choke the airflow to a 200!

@@LockyourHubs4WDing Sounds like a train too lol......

Great idea, it's not just overall weight, it's how the weight is distributed that matters most. Rotational inertia is how far the mass is in relation to the axis of rotation. And that's an issue for AT/Mud tyres where most of the mass is in the tread and the sidewall. This makes it considerably harder to accelerate and stop the wheel.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing on my specific scenario I have a new JL wrangler with stock 32 inch bfg muddies. Stock rims without tyres weigh about 10kg. I was looking to move to a dirty life brand wheel that would weigh about 20kg. Add to that I’d probably go to a tyre any where from a 33-35 inch. I’d be looking at least 15-25kg increase at each corner! And we haven’t even started on the losses from the larger diameter. Be great to see you do a video even if it just keeps it simple and sticks to just the weight increase. Good channel, keep it up :)

@@Rushdie01 thanks mate, I've already added it to my video ideas board! Cheers.

We have a prefilter test coming up that includes both forward and backward facing ram head rain performance (and dust) so keep an eye out!

I haven't, though am slowly doing a 91, vs E10 vs 98 petrol comparison, so keep an eye out for that one!

Hmmm.. might just do that!

Filters too, paper to foam...

Already collected the filters, everything from a standard Toyota filter, K&N, oiled foam and even the cheapest one I can find on ebay! Also picked up a particulate (dust) meter to accurately replicate actual use conditions.

For a dust ingestion comparison?

I was thinking of a cyclonic head vs internal sock vs external sock on ram head comparison.

Lock your Hubs 4WDing that would be an interesting clip as well 👍🏼

You sure about the two different sizes for Safari , I have only seen the one size for my Y62 it's big , as far as I know only one size for the 200 series also .

I believe the armax has been designed for modified cars where as the other is suitable for standard cars. I've seen both for the 200 series.

@@jackofjr yeah there is two sizes for the 200 series.

I've heard that as well, I'm not sure where it originated from. A turbocharger's compressor doesn't make a cetain amount of boost for a certain amount of exhaust flow. The compressor wheel creates a certain pressure ratio for a certain amount of exhaust flow. So the higher the initial pressure, the even higher resultant pressure, the same as compound turbocharging systems work.

The turbo still needs air. And pushing air into the turbo will h er lp slightly. How compound turbo work. Im gyessing people noticed a bigger difference on a naturally aspirated diesel because they need all the help they can get. Same as cold weather makes them go better.

It would be like sucking in a vacuum as opposed to normal air, think about how drag racing cars are set up, all intakes face forward and in interrupted

Sure have! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xgTEFFSRh2A.html

I would love a wind tunnel! The better 3/4s, probably not so much... My understanding is the abrupt end just after the bend effectively chokes down the flow, like having a much smaller diameter end on it. The ram head, has a much gentler bend and a straight section before the bend really helps the flow. That's why I assume you don't see anyone with an R&D budget, like Safari, producing backward facing stainless snorkel that seem to have come into fashion of late.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing you don't see anyone that races 4wd's with a plastic piece of shit safari snorkel either, nor do you see any high horse power engines with a small safari snorkel. Naturally aspirated vs turbo has many many different factors that you haven't even come close to touching on. Not to mention the slight voltage increase on maf sensors for forward facing vs reverses facing playing a part on fuelling changes

the stainless full pipe is shaped nothing like the experiment nozzle. don't know why he's called it strainless.

The snorkel head is designed to shed the water and does a pretty good job of it.

You're never going to make a cyclonic head sexy, just as high heeled shoes are never going to be practical, but some women still love them.

I'm going to test just that in an upcoming video!

Thats why filters

From what I know the ram heads are designed to catch and drain any water being sucked in. If you look you can see the grooves that drain out. There is those wierd vortex snorks aswell where the air and whatever else comes. With it spins around in the snork head first which pushes any particles or water to the sides which have little separators that catch water or dirt ECT and spins it out the bottom of the snork head. Also the ram force is very little in reality anyway so even if your driving a TD you only hit ram over 100kmph in which your probs spooling in 5th going to 6th anyway then your probs sitting on like 1700rpm no boost ram force will not put your car into boost from the air pressure increase. Your TD is probs running up 8-12 Psi easy which ram will never generate. More air the better 👌

At cruise the airflow requirements are less than under hard acceleration, that's why I used those as opposed to steady speed runs.

There would be a very small increase I would guess.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing I’ve seen others say .5 -2 mpg

It would depend on a lot of factors, how bad or good was the original induction setup downstream of the airbox and how well the snorkel setup flows.

Or my 1HZ 'Cruiser!

That & the fact that your Landrover does not go fast enough to benefit from a ram air snorkel head.

Lock your Hubs 4WDing ..now being shackled to a defender and using an oiled unifilter on a forward facing ram usually in only heavy dusty trips but looking at a Donaldson style cyclonic for filter life, water removal and ease of dumping out any dust at the end of the day,what would be you’re thoughts on that.?..perhaps a tad less efficient , likley more engine protection,easier maintenance ,and no washing out a foam filter with your drinking water. You’re thoughts? -----exelent use of covid 19 btw these bids have looked at issues that are long overdue ...cheers mark

You're still only going to flow as much air as the choke point at a given pressure will allow.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing to a degree. If turbos can force air then a ram can too. How about a cheap inexpensive fan assisted intake amassing a few pounds of pressure.

I already have! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xgTEFFSRh2A.html

Even I'm confused now!

It's a cover on the intake pipe that allows air in the bottom of the cover Aka "cylindrical" or "can" head snorkel Idk the terminology

@@After_Tech_Industries Yes that is correct, it is a curved fiberglass deflector that fits neatly into the front of the "Forward Facing snorkel" & draws all the air upward from underneath. It makes the intake a tiny bit smaller (by 5mm all round) but it doesn't degrade highway performance. In actual fact, it seems to have more grunt under load since fitting it. You have to remove 15-20mm of plastic from the bottom of the head opening though to make the new opening big enough & because of this it doesn't stick out or hang down and look weird either. It tucks neatly in the snorkel head opening and is held by 2 stainless steel screws that the normal screen is held on with. Unless you really look hard you don't even notice the difference. These Snorkel heads a cheap as chips so buy one & have a go at making one for yourself. I guess you could use metal but fiberglass is so easy if you use a hunk of closed cell (surfboard type) Styrofoam as a blank to get the perfect shape. Get it a perfect fit so it fits tight inside the snorkel head then remove/sand about 3mm of foam off the area all round where it fits inside the snorkel so it is a tiny bit smaller/loose fit (the fiberglass will fill this gap). Once its set use thinner or petrol to melt the foam out of your new deflector, sand it & paint it black and Bob's your uncle.. Honestly, there is much less dust, leaf & insects debris in my filter now which is why I did it. Protects against teaming rain also which is a bonus. Would be brilliant in snow or where salt is used on roads

I've checked my sealed airbox after driving 2 hours at freeway speeds in heavy rain. I maybe had about 30ml of water in the bottom of the air box, so nothing to worry about.

Great idea!

Ultra gauge!

@@LockyourHubs4WDing cheers!

No idea! I didn't measure either side of the throttle body.

I imagine after the air filter any difference would be negligible and compensated for by the fuel management computer. Likely more difference with altitude changes.

Now that's thinking outside the box! :)

While there is some validity in a p-test, probably better off with multiple tests and establish the standard deviation to validate the data.

It's no so much the body of the snorkel, but the inlet, the straight cut off just after a bend really hampers flow.

Mostly forward, except in heavy snow, then I run it backward.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing Cheers!

With the stainless backward snorkel, it's following the trend from winch truck racing. Then fabricators who I assume put trends ahead of function started producing them for road cars. You'll notice the leaders in aftermarket snorkels for 4WD don't have them in their range. As to turning the ram head backward, it does affect airflow slightly, though reports it significantly reduces dust and water getting down the snorkel. I'll be testing that in the future. Though after driving at freeway speeds for a couple of hour in reasonably heavy rain with a sealed airbox, I managed to get about 40 or 50ml of water in the airbox with a forward facing ramhead. Not nearly enough to cause an issue, though some did slip past the keeper!

The airbox and filter don't provide that much of a restriction.

The difference is "pressure". If the entry has positive pressure the effect is higher MAP. Like being at low altitude with "high" air pressure around the entry orifice. With negative pressure the MAP will be lower, like being at the top of a mountain where the air is thin. A large snorkel forward will have positive pressure and a rear facing one still has low inlet pressure due to the turbulence it creates. In among the turbulence the flow or air is all over the place and not going straight in it's all fluffy and has to turn 180deg to enter.

It's a comparison of air entry styles, the body (as long as it's not providing a choke point) doesn't matter. You could conduct the test either the way I did it, or using a 4" tube body with a ram head or backward facing entry. Either way, all you'll prove is a cut off right after a bend is a horribly inefficient for you engine to get air.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing no one has a plastic pipe thats just shy of 2.5 inches wide sticking up near there windshield. all im saying is the test is innacurate as a stainless snorkel is 4 inches mandrel bent to the box. there is no chokepoints like a safari has at the neck of the pipe.

@@DeejayManii mandrel bends also aren't the most efficient way of getting air to turn around a corner (though better than press bends)

Some like or dislike the induction sound, that's personal preference. Ram heads are designed to eject water and dust, though I haven't seen any independent testing to verify it either way.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing I have, I remove my forward facing Safari ARMAX ram air head & clean the dust & grit from inside it & the relief ports, rain water is a non issue. No mud ever makes it to the dirty side of the filter element on my VDJ79R, mud being heavier than air & doesn't go around bends or defy gravity. I've been bogged to the tray & had to fit chains recently to pull some other 4WD's, had to winch out in both cases & the VDJ79R was well coated in mud both times but no mud went anywhere near the forward facing Safari Armax ram air head.

@@dustyfarmer I'm not at all against the idea of a prefilter, especially in dusty conditions. I'm collecting parts at the moment for a prefilter comparison, cyclonic vs sock vs ram head cover vs forward and backward ram heads. Might also drop in stainless backward! We'll be looking at airflow, dust and water. Anything you guys want to know?

@@LockyourHubs4WDing I tried some of those pull over ram head oiled foam prefilters last summer. They did catch dust but dried out pretty quickly & I notice the maker says they shouldn't be run as a daily thing as the sun will destroy the foam on them. I've seen people over oil them in place & have oil run down the inside of the snorkel. Oiled type airfilters can contaminate & coat the MAF sensor too making the motor run rough or use extra fuel among other issues. I tip the Donaldson cyclonic pre-filter will come out tops when it comes to separating particles.

Cyclonic separation have been used in industry for many years before Dyson starting making vacuum cleaners! It usually works very well, we'll see though how much it impedes the airflow vs the seperation benifet.

It proves that it's not the way it's facing, it's the shape of the entry that is the main determining factor to increase airflow/decrease restriction.

In comparison with a standard setup?

@@LockyourHubs4WDing yes, unless the stock version is poorly designed.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing I've found 10-15hp loss at the wheels is common. Increasing the inlet length, adding bends and more restrictions is always going to drop the airflow.

@@dinosshed The length over the standard intake and the bends necessary to get the inlet up to the top of the windscreen as you correctly pointed out is always going to cost you airflow. The trick is to minimize the losses while still providing the utility of a snorkel like reduced water ingress and decreased dust.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing there's no difference between the debris injested or the air temperature. The air at the front of the vehicle is the same temperature as what it is a metre above next to the windscreen, same results for the debris. The only reason for fitting a snorkel is to keep the inlet out of the water, any other claim is usually 99.9% horse shit.