frame twist has been a debate over the years even amongst engineers, fords argument goes in line with big rig haulers where frame twist is nesessary to ensure the rear stays flat with the road putting pressure on the cross axle wheels, with extremely heavy loads you often see the rigs frame twist under the torque, this is completely normal. there are many of these fords that go through this condition daily with nearly a million miles on them.
Brendan Halpin SUV arent practical for transporting large objects though. what happens if you have to go back into the woods to load/unload things and you cant open your tailgate?
When I uploaded this video three months ago, I can say that I was completely unaware, naive almost, to the fierce loyalty that most truck owners have to their preferred brand. Believe me, this video was not meant to slander, insult, or belittle anyone. It was, and is meant to be educational. The fact of the matter is that frames are not supposed to flex or bend - they are what holds things together. Body panels attached to a flexible frame will kink, wrinkle, and spot welds will eventually break. The argument was made that off-road vehicles have frames that flex to help absorb shock. I disagree. Look at trophy trucks, dune buggies, and even dirt bikes. Their frames are all solidly built using beams that make triangles which we all know cannot be deformed by design (bridges are made like this). It is the job of the suspension to absorb the bumps, potholes, crevices, and uneven terrain. Switch back to road-going vehicles, like these two trucks. Will either of these trucks encounter a situation where the frame will be placed under this kind of stress in an every-day situation? Most likely, the answer is no. The reason vehicles last so long these days is because they are over-engineered to withstand stresses and strains that we consumers will likely never even try. But, isn't it nice to know you can have a vehicle that can and will hold up to this type of stress if or when it is ever called to do so? On the point of past history that many have mentioned... Every brand of vehicle, especially the "Big Three", have been through their share of substandard quality, lackluster performance, poor dependability, and questionable longevity. Some of you may not be old enough to remember when vehicles coming out of Japan were considered junk. Look at them now. The same can be said of Ram Trucks. That huge departure from the conventional pick-up body style that happened in the earlier 1990's left a lot of truck owners and potential buyers scratching their heads. Transmissions weren't so great, dashes cracked, styling was questionable. But trying to say that new trucks are going to perform and last like models from 10, 15, and 20 years ago is like saying that everything you now know as a 30-year old you already knew at the age of ten. To sum things up, my goal for this video is to educate the consumer. I didn't mean to start the melee of mudslinging and name-calling that's happened in this thread. I have but one request for the faithful Ford and GM truck owners: it won't kill you to have a look at a new Ram. When the time comes around for you to replace your Silverado, Sierra, or F-Series, do your due diligence and take a look at Ram Trucks. Thank you all for watching my video, and thank you to all my new subscribers!
think about pickup trucks, they have 6-7 inches of suspension travel. You cant compare a score truck chassis to a pickup truck because score trucks have 26-30 inches of suspension travel.
you mentioned to look at dune buggies how many dune buggies have a solid rear axle... my take on watching this is that the ford has stiffer suspension, why would you ever by a 3500 or a 350 if you weren't going to tow things thus you would need stiff suspension, less the rear end sag and decrease control.
no it shows that if your truck gets stuck while you're on an emergency off road adventure, you can still get out where as you would be trapped in the ford.
ford uses a c channel frame and ram uses a boxed style frame. C channel frames naturally have more flex which allows them to hug the terrain more giving better traction. Another advantage of a c channel over boxed frame is when its under load the c channel frame is much less likely to suffer frame damage
Dominic rached Hey idiot... I guess you havent read of men actually working at oil fields etc crunching their POS Furd Turd tailgate because it flexed so much...Furd is Junk
HEMI LOVER if you have been on oil patch job sites the Ford's a winner , dodges are junk I've seen a ford that was brutalized in fort Mac and it's still going
This is good to know. Next time I go to open my tailgate when I'm parked with my back right off the ground I know whether or not I can expect it to open!
Actually this is ideal for both trucks. The fords will keep traction longer than the dodge, helping you get out of that hole. The dodge loses traction quicker, and gets stuck in the hole, but the tailgate opens so you can get the rope out.
Bought a 2014 f350, I have nothing but good things to say about it! Reliable! I have put it through some tests of my own and gotta say did fantastic. Nothing happened other than what the dealership messed up. But it's all fixed now and she running strong!
+blower2006 Unfortunately all I had was my phone, and with it being in February, it was cold and the wind was not making it easier. I do apologize for the shakiness of the video (hands were freezing!) and the wind noise.
This test is NO joke, I was delivering building materials to a rural home site in Pilot Point TX and twisted a 450 going through a small culvert which all of us had gone through in the previous week with like load and different trucks (gm, dodge). We literally use all brands of trucks even cab over Isuzu's. First time the Ford crunched the tailgate. It was brand new. Company removed the bed and installed a utility box with GN hitch. We still use it, runs great but a year later it won't hold an alignment and diving it is like herding cats. They are great trucks for RV'ers and the like but I notice more RAM's and GM's on the job sites nowadays. Truck needs to fit your purpose like buying a pair boots. I wear steal toe, the next guy may wear full quill ostrich. Dont mean nothin, as long as we support the family!
I have never owned a Ford. Drove an F-150 and an F-250. Didn't care for the local sales process. I owned a 2008 Tundra and switched to a Ram 1500 earlier this year. When my family decided to upgrade our camping trailer, I found the 1500 to be inadequate, so I went with a Ram 2500 6.4L. Long story short, after buying a Ram, I notice them on the road a lot more. "Supposedly" Ford outsells Ram several times over, but here in Denver, I notice a lot more Rams than any other truck. If I had to guess, I'd say of all the consumer trucks (non-fleet) I see on the roads in Colorado, more than 50% are Ram. I've literally parked at Home Depot and had five Rams within 30 ft of mine. I was at a campground in the Tetons and both my neighbors had Rams. I don't feel very special when everyone has the same truck. :) Overall, very happy with the Ram though I have only put 4800 miles on the new 2500 I've had for a month and a half. Sure goes through gas hauling my 33' travel trailer up and down mountain passes.
I'll second that thought that RAM owns Colorado. I'd say it's as much as 50% RAM, 30% GM, 20% Ford. I pull a fifth wheel off road and this video helped me decide on my RAM.
Vehicles are worth how they hold up in extreme conditions. For example, you want a vehicle that’s been tested in an accident at a high rate of speed vs. a semi. Believe me, I survived an accident in my Ram 1500 that would have killed me in anything else.
I had purchased several Ford Power strokes starting in 1994. Had used them for many, many miles towing trailers all over the nation. In 2006 I switched to a Dodge Ram Diesel primarily because I wanted a 6 speed manual transmission. At the time Ford and GM truck 6 speed manual transmissions were set up with 6th gear being an overdrive. Owner's manuals tell you not to to tow in overdrive. The Ram 6 speed was not an overdrive, so chose the Ram primarily on that point. One of the first things I noticed was how much stiffer the Dodge frame was when towing a goose neck. With the Fords I always felt small frame flexes on uneven surfaces. Not with the Dodge! I have also been very favorably impressed with the Cummings diesel engine. I presently have nearly 280,000 miles and it still runs great! Only thing I can fault is the seats are not as comfortable as the Fords.
Both 6 speeds ever offered, the NV5600 and the G56 are both overdrive transmissions and neither should be ran in overdrive while hauling heavy unless you want a broken 6th gear
Body flex isn't as bad as people make it seem. It helps prevent cracks in the frame welds as the truck ages, it keeps the rear wheels planted. And Yes I know the tail gate can't open, but no one loads their truck like this anyways, so it's irrelevant.
Sure, but there's zero weight in the beds. These trucks are fore pulling loads. What would this look like with 1,600 lbs in the bed, say with a gooseneck horse trailer? That left spring on the Ram would tuck in, and there would be sufficient traction. I hate to think what the Ford's would look like. Also, these are towing rigs, not offroad rigs. This flex is bad, in this case.
Dan Ilges Any proof of this? Many structures that are supposed to be rigid are designed to flex. Take skyscrapers for example - they're designed to wobble in the event of strong winds or earthquakes. A truck that can flex will likely have a smoother ride, and if it has 4WD it will have a greater chance of keeping at least 3 wheels on the ground, which is ideal for off-roading. It could also prevent any permanent damage, depending on the weight of the cargo.
well im a mechanic having a car frame flex like that causes a higher rate of fatal car crashes cause it makes it easier for bed to flip over and smash cab or another car that hit you thus making it a veeeeeery bad thing to do hint why ford only did it for a few years and why no new trucks have it
Dan Ilges Makes sense, I haven't thought of it that way way. Though, aren't all modern vehicles required to be able to withstand their own weight on the roof? I understand how a flexible frame could increase the chances of tipping over, but fatalities shouldn't be all that high. I still think that Ford's decision is deliberate. The flexible frame may have some disadvantages, but as I stated, it has some advantages too. In a customer perspective, I think that's a good thing - gives people a choice in what suits their needs best. If you're primarily doing urban work, the Ram is the better choice. If you're doing a lot of work off roads, the Ford is the better choice. For the record, I have no bias toward any company. I am not saying the Ford is better or worse.
the only advantage is if it was made as a mud truck but obviously you are not going to take a bran new dually mudding like that or even 4X4ing to begin with so thus making its design failed cause of the higher fatality rates those trucks had & the high frame separations it had and thus them taking it out of their new ones. so if it was deliberate then thats a bad decision on their part that they are paying for now
After owning a 2012 Ram, I have to say that the only bad thing about owning that thing was the tail gate design. If it rained, than water would fill up in that little crest and it would pour all over you (IF you had a tonneau cover). Other than that, the looks, performance, and all out durability make it my favorite :)
the added front end weight of the Dodge that makes it tilt more forward, the f150s weight is more oriented toward the rear axles, which is a good thing if you don't want wheel spin from stops, and helps with dampening the cabin movement during braking
I wish they would put some weighted cargo in the trucks and to this. They would then go under the Dodge and see all the failed welds by the cross-members. They would see that Ford's frame would return to normal when it is driven off the ramp.
I wish they put weighted cargo in the beds too...then tried to remove the weighted cargo while on the Frame Twist ramps. The Ford is sooooo crappy of a truck that you couldn't even get the weighted cargo out. So why would you even want to put weighted cargo in the bed if you can't even get it out??? Here's your sign.
What would weight change? The new Ram Heavy Duty frame is bar far the strongest frame on the market. Why would the welds break? Ford has had problem with frame twisting sense the 90's in their heavy duty truck's. You think they would have fixed it by now
This is not a frame strength test, it's a flexibility test. If you bent each to its breaking point (a strength test) the ram would likely break under less force due to its rigidity. So flexibility is a bad thing according to this video?
A flexabilty test is only used for suspension not frames. Frames should never bend or flex like the Ford does. Everything is attached to the frame and being stretched. They are not supposed to flex, take a look at an 18 wheeler frame for instance. Listen to the guys talking the dodge can sit there all day with out a problem and the tailgate wont even open on the ford.
Your logic is flawed. The fracture point you are talking about is more related to the material used not the geometry and structure of the frame. If both frames are made of the same material the ram will be able to handle more load before fatigue leads to failure. The reason flexibility is not wanted in frame design is because it introduces compliance. This makes suspension tuning more difficult because you have another variable in your system with unpredictable characteristics. The goal is to have an infinitely rigid frame so that all shock absorption can be done through the suspension as it was intended. This is obviously impossible as there is compliance in everything from the axles, a arms, wheels, etc. and it all adds up. In this case, the ford is doing it wrong.
Kanglar that's the point I was trying to make. The flexibility is based off the geometry and is what matters most here. A strength test wouldn't matter so much since they are probably made of the same material and the force required for failure would destroy the entire vehicle. But if it did take place the ram wouldn't necessarily fail at less force because it is more rigid.
TheCamaro5 you've obviously never seen a dumb truck or semi before. They have super flex frames. There is nothing wrong with a flex frame. Its ll about how its designed. Hell watch videos of a unimog. You want to watch frame flex.
flight2k5 Semi's have a huge frame hrmmm I wonder why. No matter what frames are not supposed to flex sure frames flexed from cars in the past but today's vehicles are much more rigid and stiff as the suspension handles all the flexing and vibrating. If the frame flexes like a Ford you will notice every time you hit a bump in the road you will get this shimmy right after and that is from the frame shaking back after the bump. something you wont feel in a GM or Dodge vehicle. Thing is what will you guys say when Ford next truck comes out and has a stiffer frame that does not twist?????
Wait, I've learned so much reading these responses (see below), I just want to get all the facts straight. So the fords frame is supposed to flex because... -the frame is an integral part of the suspension -the frame is supposed to flex so all wheels maintain road contact -the frame is supposed to flex because airplane wings do -the frame is supposed to flex because Ford has sold the most trucks for however many years and that must mean they're supposed to -flexing is good because rigid frames crack -Ford didn't take bail-out money But now I'm confused because of Ford's website saying this about the F150 frame- "Ford engineers increased the use of high-strength steel in the all-new Ford F-150 frame from 23 percent to 77 percent to create a pickup frame that is stronger, more durable and structurally more rigid than the current F-150, while saving up to 60 pounds of weight" That makes me think Rigid frames are good. Maybe the F150 just had a more flexible frame than the 250's/350's and soon it'll be as rigid as the Ford in this video? Seriously though... To each their own, I've owned all 3.
TheBuddyboy1997 ridged frames are good because they increase payload and towing capacity, but c-frames are better than boxed frames for corrosion. they are also cheaper to manufacture and assemble. Also they give a channel to run wires and lines that prevent them from getting snagged on stuff offroad. There is no perfect solution, each have their pros and cons
Ram Pros: - You can park it on the edge of a cliff and get the tailgate open - Looks nicer when new Ram Cons: - Ram is consistently at or near bottom for reliability by brand - You pay a little more on frame reinforcement related costs that you only ever need when parking on the edge of a cliff or Ram sales demo ramps For Pros: - Consistently a higher reliability score than Ram - You save a little money on frame reinforcement related costs that you only ever need when parking on the edge of a cliff or Ram sales demo ramps Cons: - Looks nice, but not as nice - You can't park it on the edge of a cliff and get the tailgate open
The biggest reason ford chose C channel that no one is talking about is for aftermarket and chassis cab up-fitting. Ford for a long time has opted for a much thicker gauge C channel that Ram’s thinner walled box frame. The reasons, cheaper, easier to run wiring and lines, and gives flexibility. The new fords that have boxed frames only have the boxed section under the cabin where you do NOT want the chassis to flex. Over the rear axle ford retains the C channel to allow for designed flexibility for hauling traction and ride quality, and to allow the after market to better and more easily upfit Ford superdudy trucks for their applications. Hope that helps anyone that didn’t want to do research.
I read that the ram 3500 can pull 30,000lbs and the ford f450 can only pull 24,000lbs. Don't get me wrong 24,000lbs is impressive but when you get out pulled by a lower class of truck by 6,000lbs that says something.
brandon webb Dude you still do know that thats the 2015 model,RAM hasn't even gone to that year yet so... when RAM releases the 2015 models you can say that and I bet you the ford will just split in half if it tries to tow 30k+ pound trailer
***** Yeah your right. More power requires more expensive durable parts to take the power and to be able to last a long time at the same time. Any diesel from the 90's can tow almost as much as ones now but its going to be slower. Nothing wrong with that they are actually more reliable and last a lot longer.
I have many times on mine while exploring Alaska's backcountry, having to take out equipment in bad spots etc... Rigidity helps slide in campers' shell/walls from splitting and anchors from ripping off as well.
The testers indicated to us that both trucks were 100% untouched, and exactly as they rolled off the assembly line. They also said that they have to stagger which way they twist the Ford because they're worried the frame is going to incur irreparable damage. As for Ford using aluminum in the construction of their new trucks, more power to them. Body shops all across the nation will likely have to spend countless dollars to add or increase their capabilities to work with aluminum. The ford trucks will definitely be lighter, but at what cost for longevity? Only time will tell. Glad they're trying it first, because as far as trucks go, I'm not so sure that aluminum construction is a great choice.
kyle vanderveen think again! www.extremetech.com/extreme/174544-aluminum-body-2015-ford-f-150-pickup-sheds-700-pounds-adds-a-ton-of-driver-assist-technologies Just because they did it doesn't mean its better as mentioned above. Smaller ecoboost engine too. Interesting to know what it will cost to repair a smashed door now...
stevew145 but you can't weld aluminum to steel. so how in the hell did they get the aluminum body to fasten to the steel? what did they do, bolt everything on somehow?
FireFoxConn Do you think they ever welded the body to the frame? It uses aluminium body panels, which are bolted on like any other body panel would be.
My old 2003 Dodge left me stranded on the side of the road 4 times in less than 8 years (3 while I was towing and far from home), and the 'vaunted' Cummins blew up after 205K miles. It started coming apart at 97K miles with fuel injector issues. The transmission torque converter came apart at 167K. I couldn't get it to tow worth a crap either unless it was chipped. Back in Dec 2010, I bought a new F350 with the 6.7 and it's been a beast...superb power...engine braking...perfect trans downshifts...awesome truck. And I"m also really proud that Ford didn't have to take any Obama money to bail them out...like Dodge and Chevy did. I won't ever buy another Dodge truck. I don't ever want to get stranded again!!!!
It’s mainly for towing in uneven grounds, the fatter the hitch is, the better. But this does go with saying if you keep doing that with the Ford it will cause permanent damage
I'm personally a Ford person, however, I love each brand. Dodge, Ford, GM (Chevy, GMC), they each have their own strengths and weaknesses. I'm 20, and I live with my grandparents helping them out since it's hard for them now. But I grew up with 3 Silverados. I thought they were the best thing ever. After about age 13, getting into automotive repair, I started realizing that GM vehicles where good, but a joke when you need something fixed. After we got rid off our last Silverado, we weren't going with a GMC or Silverado again because of the stupidity of the dealer and trying to get parts. So my grandfather tested out a Dodge (1500 I think), and the dealer told him straight up, the problem with Dodge is you will most likely blow the transmission before 180k. Then we settled with a 2011 F150 Crew Cab. It's an amazing truck, but it doesn't come without problems. Less than 8 months ago, we put almost $1300 in trying to get it fixed. Long story short: Ford's are built tough, but if something breaks, so does your wallet. But they are comfortable and reliable. Chevy's are an amazing brand, but retarded when it comes to repairs. They are very durable though. GMCs are fucking Chevy's. Dodges..... Transmission. That is all. But seriously, they are nice, but it always seems like something is broken the moment you look away.
thats cool cause, ford needs stupid people to buy their junk. Hey since were on the topic. If fords are so great why is it that when the ford get to the 600 series truck. They change the powerjoke I mean powerstroke for a turbo cummings deisel engine? Can't figure that one out, of course you can't you bought a ford. I would explain it top you but you probably couldn't understand it. ford and chevy people just don't get it. even when the proof is on a video right in front of your face. good luck.
Shara Pillai Only a Stupid person would provide a response like yours! JFYI, The Cummins has been dumped for the 6/7 Series Medium Duty Trucks in favor of the 6.7 Powerstroke specific for this application. Just so you know, many Commercial customers actually opt for the 6.8 V10 in this series because of it's proven reliability and low cost of ownership/maintenance when compared to a Diesel Motor of any Make. Generally, these customers will not be driving long distance where MPG is there greatest concern. I've personally owned Ford trucks with nearly 200K Hard Miles and they still ran Extremely Good, My company and I've been part of companies that have abused there Superduties old and new and have provided decades of reliable service surpassing 250K miles on Gas Engines and 350K miles on Diesel. Extended Idle times and did I mention they were treated like it was stolen, over weighted with Payloads and Trailers regularly. So much for that WEAK Frame DODGE Claims and DODGE Fan's Eat Up.... Like I said, if Dodge had such an amazing Chassis, they would have not needed to constantly revamp over the last 12 years just to reach Superduty's Proven Chassis only here in 2014, AND you would see them Upfitted on project sites across the country in overwhelming numbers...I DON'T THINK SO!!!
george jones in just the past year dodge got their shit together and finally upgraded their shitty 48RE transmission to a Aisin AS69RC just so they can finally compete with the 5r110, 6r110 and Allisons. get your facts straight kids.
“The fords tires are harder to get off the ground” thats a good thing. And the ford was positioned more rear than the dodge which is why it rocked back and forth when put weight on the rear
Well i see duallies all the time with damaged fenders....its a lot cheaper to replace the removable fender then to pound out the steel or cut and welding a new section.
I call this test bs. I don't own either brand as I have a 3/4 ton GMC diesel. Why is Dodge more aligned on the ramp than Ford.? One has to look at the angle of ascent and realize the rear wheels on Ford are at an angle and not in straight line. Nonsense.
the bigger part of that test as far as the ford is concerned would be when they come back off the ramps if the ford still lines up, then this test means nothing. but if there is permanent deformation then thats a problem. a rigid structure can break a lot easier than a flexible but strongly built structure. thats why jumbo jet wings flex.
33BMX33 I know a lot of ford owners and all the tailgates still open just fine. Do you know any that don't? doubt it? There are more fords out there than chevy and dodge combined. Even after they sue'd navistar! Dumb!
The video doesn't lie... I've always owned Ford's (6 in the past 25 years). But after recently riding in my buddies Dodge 3500 and seeing this video, I'll be trading off my Ford soon and this is just one of the many reasons why. Thanks for showing the facts about the Ford and Dodge so clearly with your video.
Yeah man, that's cool! You'll trade your Ford's stability and structural integrity, for BEING ABLE TO OPEN YOUR TRUNK DOOR WHILE DOING A SILLY STUNT IN CONTROLLED CONDITIONS LOL
No, no one else knew that, you are literally the only person that actually got it, well done and thank you for letting the rest of us know. You are great.
Frame flex can be a good thing to a point. Most Semi trucks flex also. keeps the drive wheels flat on the ground. Be interested to see what happens to that Ram if they tried this test with a fully loaded gooseneck attached. I bet something will break. the Ford being a bit flexible may be an asset in that case.
I bet the results would be different also if they weren't testing a Laramie (tow suspension) vs an FX4 (off road suspension). Of course the Ford is looser, off road vehicles are specifically designed like that, whereas tow set ups are designed to be stiff.
@Matthew O'Connor Isn’t it funny how Dodge and Chevy like to do comparison tests with dissimilar vehicle models???!!! Aren’t most Ford trucks built with fully boxed in frames??? Which are intrinsically stronger frames than the “C” beam type frames???!!!
@@AzzKicker-bz1cb fully boxed, and they cross drill so the cross members go through the frame before welding (making a much stronger weld) much like coping the bars of a cage.
Ram is now its own brand, separate from Dodge, but still under the Chrysler group umbrella. This was done for fuel efficiency standards that have to be met by auto makers. A brand of vehicles must maintain a minimum fuel economy average across its entire vehicle line. Since trucks must comply with different standards than passenger cars & SUV's, they were moved out of the Dodge brand and into their own brand - Ram. Because it is considered a "truck", the Grand Caravan Cargo Van is now under the Ram brand.
Cant remember the last time I was on a job site that involved rock crawling frame twist. This is a very irrelevant test. Just like the cybertruck pulling a 2 wheel drive f150.
They have to test every thing to the Extreme that goes for almost all testing on anything they are not going to just drive it on some bumps and be like oh well it didn’t break so let sell it no it doesn’t work like that in the real world
Not too sure if someone has already made note of this yet....but Ford and Dodge use two different types of mounts for the body and bed. Ford still uses a rubber style mount, which is more of a direct connection to the frame, while Dodge uses a hydraulic style mount....more like a shock absorber, if you will. The mount of the dodge will allow more independent movement from the frame than the Ford will. Plus, when ever a manufacturer puts on a display of braggadocio, It's "findings" hold no water in my book.
So what is the use different things that's not like it's comparing apples to oranges. It's still comparing apples to apples is just that Ram uses the right one and ford uses the wrong one
6 лет назад
That the ford body assists the frame, makes it's failure more pronounced. I had no idea that dodge was so much better.
Ive seen a lot of these videos and they're very pointless. To the untrained eye frame twist would be bad. Here is the thing I once had to cross up about a 2 foot deep ditch with my 94 f350 loaded at about 18,000 lbs give or take. I ended up getting stuck due to being 2x4 long bed crew cab. When I got out of the truck the frame had twisted so that the bed and cab body lines were about 6 inches out of alignment. I pulled the truck out with the loader that was on the gooseneck I was towing. When she was back on level ground all was well. Now say you were to take a stiff frame and torque it so bad that the body lines from cab to bed were 6 inches out. I would have to believe that it would not return to it original shape. Remember the stiffer the frame the harder it is to bend back but it only takes seconds to flex the hell out of it. I have hauled way over the weight limit set by ford for years and had to flex the poor old truck a lot of different ways and its always held together. So I think ill stick to what works.
nathan hughes Yeah it is a good thing to keep the traction on the ground. However you want to do it through suspension articulation. Not but twisting the frame.
The tailgate not opening is a bit of an issue but frame flex is not necessarily a structural flaw. There are benefits to both designs depending on your specific needs.
Having a flexible frame is important it allows your rear wheels to remain on the ground. The same thing happens on a commercial airplane. While in flight you will notice the wingspan will flop up and down ever so slightly they have to because if they were built rigid they break off in the air. Same reason you would want the frame to flex. the engineering from ford did this on purpose it was not an oversight. Both are great work trucks.
I really can't stand the fierce hatred people have for other brands...They get absolutely mean and nasty about it. "I would never own a ford, dodge, or gm" You honestly cannot tell me that if you were being offered a brand new truck from another brand for free you would not take it. If you say you wouldn't you are either most likely lying or just incredibly stupid. The truth is every car manufacturer makes bad apples and golden ones...I actually had someone say I'm not an American because I like Ford instead of Chevy...
Real trucks aren't found broken down all over the roads like Ford's. Get a dodge, most reliable, stronger, higher towing capacity and better fuel economy.
If I was offered a GM or Dodge, I'd trade it in for a Ford. No hate intended but I've yet to have a bad experience with Ford but I constantly hear problems with the others
I must be one hell of a lucky man. Have owned 12 Dodge/Ram trucks over the past 32 years driving more than 1,200,000 miles. Had one lift pump fail (2002, warranty) and a coolant overflow jug leak at the seam (warranty, 2016). Currently drive a 2016 3500 Longhorn megacab dually with OEM air bags. The best riding heavy duty truck, loaded or unloaded. In 2017 I said what the hell and bought a new 2017 Ford F250. It was a nice truck but after 10 months I took a loss and traded it for the 2106 Ram. Next summer it will be time for a 2020 Ram. I have to say that an honest man will admit that the fit and finish of the Ram Limited/Longhorn is so greatly superior than the other brands best model. A coworker bought a 2020 GMC Denali 2500 and it is embarrassing cheap inside.
Well I'm glad to see that my ford will carry more traction over rough terrain! More contact with the ground the better! Smoother too! Not like The frame will ever give out on a ford anyways. Built tough... flexible means more tolerance too. Personally, I don't think it's a design flaw at all.
Nothing against you but yes you may have more ground contact but flex in the frame this severe can cause detrimental damage to your vehicle especially if you are carting more weight on-board for example body panels handling and a multitude of other things 👍
@@alexandertelford9915 I was 16 when I wrote this lol, but since, I've owned 3 ford powerstrokes, offroaded the works of them in rocky terrain, and can confirm, nothing has broken or bent from that. The amazing part is that I haven't even needed to put down my tailgate in the middle of a trail. I got a 2014 F250 SCSB 6.7 and abused the piss out of it for 160,000 miles, and the only thing that went wrong on it was an O2 sensor. So can confirm; You are indeed wrong
Grant Tallent It's all user preference, I personally would never own a Dodge, because they look like pieces of crap to me. I will only own a Chevy or a Ford. I'll dodge in owning a Dodge.
Also, who’s hitting the lock button (which works the tailgate lock) between passenger door and tailgate then unlocking between tailgate and driver door? Ford locks are loud as fuck, and you can clearly hear the locks being engaged. They’re not even fucking trying. lol I feel like I can speak to this as well, as I have a 14 Ram AND a 14 Super Duty, both of them 1-ton DRW 4x4’s. And I can tell you right now, the 332,670-something Super Duty works circles around (and keeps you more comfortable) than the Ram at 92,200-something miles. And gets better mileage. And tows waaaaay more weight while still staying more stable and controllable. Ford is a much stronger, harder working, more fuel efficient, better version of a truck than the Ram ever wanted to be. And also, it’s from a company that never took a bailout. As a plumber that’s constantly towing my mini-excavator (Kubota KX040-4 and skid-steer loader (Bobcat T650) together on one trailer, I’ll ALWAYS hook it to the Ford before the Ram, unless my apprentices or Journeymen need an actual tow rig for the day. Then I’ll put one (and only one) machine behind the Ram, and replace my britches when I get home, cuz the pucker-factor of towing with a Dodge is going to eat a hole clean through your undershorts and bite that denim hard.
@@damianthielemier6249 sounds like need to load differently. Never had a problem with anything I've put behind the cummins. Even going overweight.🤷♂️ also, hell yes ford took a bailout. A simple google search will confirm that.
punkrocker10115 Fair enough thought process, but with that much money hooked to the truck, I make damn sure my tongue weight is spot the fuck on by using scales. Why invest in a business if you’re not going to invest in the cheapest insurance there is, awareness. And also the actual tools to measure that shit. That’s why I’m comfortable using my name on here and not “punkrocker-number-number-whatever.” Also, never said the Ram wasn’t “technically” capable. I just know which one I’ll trust my machines to more comfortably, not to mention my employees’ lives and my own. I’m not just feeding my household, I gotta make sure three other families have dad coming home at the end of the work day. Soooo, I put them in the SD when they have to move equipment occasionally. Otherwise, if it’s just me, I put both machines behind either truck. The Ford just does it better, and is more stable. And uses waaaaaaaaaay less fuel.
On a positive note about each brand. When you have an open differential or limited slip, you will quickly appreciate the longer duration of which all tire maintain contact with the ground. Take one front tire off the ground and one rear and guess what you have, a stuck truck. On ramps no problem, in the mud; different story. Flex is not all bad, if you understand the science of steel you know that being overly stiff often equals being brittle. Metal that can flex and spring back to shape is actually good when it comes to longevity, same reason those features are preferred in a good sword. There are features I like about all three brands, I think Dodge has some cool interior features of which Ford does not provide; Ford does however have the durable King Ranch interior; GM has always been the kings at comfort when it comes to a nice ride. All their engines have ups and downs; ironically Ford owns Cummins but has to maintain the longterm contract with Dodge for that engine. Ford got smart and started building their engines in-house (good riddens International). GM usually installs low grade interior parts despite their comfort, they break fast. Ford does not seem to know how to change a factory process when they have a known issue with their vehicles. Dodge is like Microsoft, one version is good whilst the next is full of issues. Coolest thing I seen GM do was use those Eaton automatic locking differentials, I've used them and they've been very handy. I own each brand, I like each one for it's various points. When it comes to cab space, Ford has it hands down though the Dodge Megacab is also a keeper. I've had a truck full of big guys more than once, in my Ford they can all stretch out. The Megacab by Dodge does just as good however, their straight crew by Dodge gets a little tight. As for pulling, The powerstroke and the duramax pull like magic provided both maintain traction. The Dodge gives you a great mix of pulling power and fuel mileage. In a world where diesel is unreasonably higher in cost, good fuel mileage is a serious issue for a business truck. Dodges are better at the fuel mileage both stock and modified. For fuel mileage alone, I prefer the Dodge, I can still modify the new ones to much better mileage without blowing up the engine.
Dragon Steel, Ford does not own Cummins. This contract is renewed every 3-4 yrs upon Ford sales increases. Ford utilized Cummins to subvert the poor performing Ford power plant issue faced for many years. Cummins hands down has done for small and big buisness alike, great advantages for fuel/weight to total torque output above any GM or Ford product. Now into Nissans i hear. Happy Motoring!
Ok I'm a Dodge guy. Heart and soul. Hate Fords. But honestly. I've driven a truck my whole life doing work on my ranch and NEVER has my truck ever been in a place that this test would apply. When the fuck do you need a heavy hauler to twist like that? If you need to get somewhere tight saddle up a damn horse. Don't tear up your truck.
ok, a test such as this is not suppose to relate to "real life situations".. this is just the most comparable way to show a consumer something they might never notice otherwise. very easy to see one is weaker than the other
I've owned one F250 diesel. One night I skidded off a slick hwy into a ditch. I had it towed to the dealer which sent it to a frame straightening shop. They said the frame was bent and twisted so bad it couldn't be fixed. I bought two Dodge Ram diesels after that and had no issues with either one. I will say I've never seen this test before and I was shocked at the extreme frame flex the Ford exhibited. I would have thought the Ram would have shown some flex but it didn't. Well done Dodge Boyz!!
The thing about C channel frames, aside from frame flex. Is when you have rust holes from age on a box frams, you have a fourth side for structural support. Whereas with a c channel you can expect the truck to split in half like a Toyota Tacoma.
Just because Chrysler had the Govt bail out doesn't bring down there growth in value and quality of there vehicles and yes the f series is the best selling but just because people buy doesn't mean it's the best that's like saying the i phone out sells the Galaxy so it's better when in fact the Galaxy is better smh adults arguing over trucks smh buy what you please but the Ram is my favorite and mopars just run in my family simple as that
You're analogy is seriously flawed. Comparing a cell phone that is purchased highly by emotions and the fact that modern smart phones have only really become mainstream around 2007 is probably the worst comparison that can be drawn up liking it to purchasing of a truck. Trucks have been around since the telegraph. By the way, u do realize that a Samsung far outnumbers an iphone because buyers can get it for much cheaper and there was a time where some carriers didn't even offer iPhones? That cant be said about FORD vs DODGE because history shows you generally can buy a Dodge cheaper, the quality was inferior and there chassis was not desired. Trucks are purchased because of brand loyalty and it's history while a smaller percentage buy on impulse. As far as RAM, they are making good on turning around there truck division. As far as I'm concerned this VID fails to show the cons of there chassis. Did we expect anything else from a manufacture funded test?
Chryslers quality in their vehicles is what brings down their "growth in value" and "quality." Doesn't take an automotive expert to know that Chrysler has the worst quality of all auto manufacturers. The only thing that made people purchase a Ram heavy duty truck was the Cummins. Now that Fiat owns Chrysler and they did the motori ecodiesel, that was a breach of contract with Cummins. Now Cummins is going into the new Titan and the 2016 Tundra.
That's not necessarily true because if that was the case then they would've been out of business but obviously people still buy their cars and every dodge vehicle my family owned never had a problem every Ford my family has had always had a problem and gm products have been good but if you take care of any car like your supposed to then every car would run fine and if someone just brought the ram because of the cummins then why are their so many 1500's on the road yes the f-150 better sells but everyone one is different and buy what they want to buy and me personally i wouldn't buy an f-150 cause they aren't special and every one has one at least there's less rams to see actually feel like you brought something you can cherish
Trenton Thomas You know the irony is for every story I hear on RU-vid, "I owned a RAM/GM and NEVER had any problems but my Ford's Did," there's another story the complete opposite. At the end of the day the fact is Chrysler/Dodge had a serious problem with poorer quality vehicles on average than both GM and Ford for some time. If an individual had good experiences, that's great. I wouldn't want Chrysler nor RAM to fold, they IMO are making the strongest comeback. RAM trucks surpassed sales of GM trucks for March 2014, that's BIG, all because they are taking there trucks serious and putting QUALITY into it. Thank FORD for paving the way!
Fuck you dude my mom passed so I don't think that was real funny, and when I said dumb ass I was referring to the video meant to say (there dumb ass's).
Im sure both setups have their pros and cons. An all out sturdy frame will probably have a slightly longer life and help at handling loads on rough terrain. The flexier frame will give you better traction though and (maybe) save some weight.
@@robertdowney65 its RAM now so your acronym joke doesnt work anymore, but okay my guy. Theres plently of jokes to be made both ways so why even say it
Can't remember who made the comment but the statement was made and that if a unibody car flex too much it would fold in half… I've seen a Volvo with over 1,000,000 miles on it with unibody construction and to my knowledge it hadn't folded in half yet… !!!
I see a lot of comments about the flex and "well they say this" and "well you'll never be in said situation" but a test is a test and this particular test proved to me undoubtedly that the ram was a better built truck.
Get over it Ford crotch sniffers.... this Ram is obviously built better. Sorry to disappoint but just because Ford has the best selling truck to date just tells me that there are that many suckers. My brother runs a company with about a 60% Ford fleet and a 40% Ram fleet. The Rams have had less issues and average 2 to 4 mpg better and both trucks have the biggest motors available at the time of production. All 2500s and 250s and up. He regrets buying as many Fords because of the headache. Just my 2 cents though. Both pull trailers on a weekly basis.
scott swail Frame flex can be a good thing under certain situations but the frames main purpose is to support the combined structure of everything else attached to it so that everything functions together properly as a unit. When the frame flexes so much under expected circumstance that other components are adversely effected like the tailgate being jammed with the box then the frame is to weak. The frame of a vehicle should not be designed to flex in ways that are better suited for a good suspension. That's the suspensions main job to absorb the brunt of those irregularities.
666dynomax I live in the countryside and I drive off-road in my woods, very low speed but steep terrain. More flex is better. My old K20 performs best because it flexes a lot.
ike fun in all my years of driving I have never parked a vehicle with a wheel in the air. I have had boxed frames rust out though and see hundreds of boxed frames at the pick and pull that i could crush with my bare hands from corrosion.
If you're parking your truck like that, do you put on your climbing gear before you get out of the truck? I can't imagine what that jobsite looks like.
I've got an 11k lb. GVW toy hauler that I pull with my 2013 Ram 2500 mega cab with the Cummins. It works out really well. When fully loaded, the truck squats about 2". I've got a buddy with a 2012 Ford F250 Powerstroke who borrowed my trailer, and not only does his hitch sit like 3" lower, the truck squats like a little bitch when you put my trailer on it, EMPTY. 3+" of squat. You can see the entire truck is leaning backwards, and needs airbags or new springs to support the 1k lb tongue weight. We were both a little shocked. I expected his truck to carry the trailer exactly how mine does, even with the lower hitch. It pulls the trailer just fine, but it looks like a 1500 pulling a 5th wheel trailer. I almost bought the Ford, but the mega cab was what sold me on the Ram. I'm REALLY glad I didn't buy the Ford, because... damn.
An interesting test, considering the Ford advertising has been mentioning how the super duty frame has been strengthened year after year. And years ago the popular belief was that the super duty did have the strongest frame. At least in the off road magazines I read. In 2004 I purchased a F250 SD. Reg cab long box. It looked then like I believe a truck should look.{ and still does} It drives like a luxury car on a smooth hiway, and it has unstuck a full size dump truck and a 28 ft. delivery truck in the last 3 months. It pulls a horse trailer OK. More power would be nice, but have reached every destination so far. In 2004 the Ram had a very shallow box. The frame was positioned very high off the ground so the box interior volume looked funny. The Chevy just looked small compared to the Ford. I wish the manufacturers would stop already with the horse power and torque wars. 800 plus ft/lbs of torque. LOL. The new Nissan will be my next truck. A 5.0L diesel putting out over 500 ft/lbs of torque at less than 1700 rpm. I'm not gonna drag race it. I'm not gonna race another truck towing a horse trailer up a hill. I'm gonna go slow and steady, do the speed limit or lower, try and get the best mileage I can, take corners slow so I don't mess up the horses, and get there safely in one piece. C'mon Detroit. Give me adequate power, reliability, fuel economy, and value for my money.
Felix Quinones Seen this with several trucks that have been tested. The ram did not stay twisted but neither did the ford. The ford ended up cracking the bed in half.
I watched a similar video with Ford against Chevy to which the Ford twisted like a pretzel,but all the Ford guys commented that the frame is supposed to twist to improve ride quality.ya I laughed at them also.
Rick Milley I wonder what they all have to say now that Ford has decided that a high-strength fully-boxed steel frame is the way to go for their 2017 super duty trucks.
celtiberian Yes, sure have. But, the wing of a plane is engineered as a shock absorber which relates to your vehicle's suspension. The frame of an airplane, its tubular body, is a rigid structure. If it flexed as well, there would be a whole lot more airsick passengers. By the way, did you know that the new 2017 Ford Super Duty trucks now use a fully boxed high strength steel frame?
planned obsolescence like how other makers have done.Reason you don't see the older f-150's with cracked frames like other trucks is because they have open c channels to help with flexing.
ive been waiting to see how a ram did in the twist. when chevy did it they left ram out of the test and did chevy vs ford. i can see why they left the ram out
People... this is just a test to demonstrate the flexibility of the frames on these trucks. It isn't intended to be used as an example of what happens in normal usage of your truck... Yeah no ones gonna open the tailgate while off roading, but that doesn't matter. Why is everyone here that owns a ford so butthurt about this? Can none of you just be like "oh yeah, I guess that means that my truck frame flexes more, whatever that doesn't matter to me" and not say "this test it dumb no one will open their tailgate while offroading blah blah blah"? Or even say "yea I guess that truck is better in this way. I don't care because I like my truck" I don't understand why everyone is so freaking defensive of their chosen truck brand... if you're gonna argue about it, at least give reasonable points to your argument and allow for some criticism and counter arguments. Everyone just needs to chill and this comment is too long
I don't think anyone with a dually would find themselves in a fully articulated suspension situation where they needed to open their tailgate. Ford allows the frame to flex as shown to allow the wheels to stay in contact with the ground as often as possible to allow traction. Pointless with a locking diff, I know, but also lighter and doesn't rob payload ratings, and towing and loading are what duallys are meant for. Not offroading in extreme conditions to the point of wheels off the ground, Weight/sq." means no traction in the rear because of all the surface area. Just saying.
the metal may be a spring steel alloy and the designed flex is what allows an overloaded truck to go through an obstacle allowing the frame to twist to avoid over stress, a frame needs to be able to not flex at all so the hard steel wont crack, or be flexible to a point that stress cracks wont form for a lasting 1+ million mile chassis life, i have drilled/welded on chevy 1500, bronco, and ram 1500 frames all of which had an angle iron work-ability to it , and I have drilled/welded on f350, class 4-8 trucks all of which were like working with a mix of high carbon steel and spring steel,
You don't flex the frame to keep the wheels on the ground. You use suspension articulation. Also plenty of people put their dually's through terrain that causes this amount of twist. 5 just in the group of guys I wheel with do this with their dually's.
The frame doesn't flex to keep the wheels on the ground, it flexes to keep from cracking at what would be high stress points on a ridgid frame, and a dually is usually not chosen for flexibility and articulation off road , it like a class 8 truck is loaded and sent down the pavement, gravel, and logging roads, when needed the frame can twist to avoid breaking axles, wheels, or it self under the weight of a 30000+lb payload, if your friends want to off road their duallys then they can buy the Ford that not only will it not brake the frame, or hear an annoying amount of interior cab twisting noise that I know the Chevy has, but they don't have to spend thousands of dollars on a custom long arm rock crawling suspension to articulate near as much as the Ford to keep tires firmly planted and then have the ability to load truck and trailer to 30000lb+ and drive down the road
I know the frame doesnt twist for that. Thats what I wrote in response to the OP. As far as choosing a truck for offroading thats all in opionion. I personally didnt choose a dually for many reason besides cost, but whether it be Ford Chevy or Dodge someone would be fine choosing either. Its a matter of preference. My K5 had a c chann and twisted a lot. It also dog tracked driving down the road because of it. To much frame twist isnt good and I would say that not being able to open the tailgate or the tailgate buckling is too much. Again I agree that a dually isnt a first choice.
I've owned two RAMs. A 2014 and 2015: Both Mega Cab dually diesel 4x4 Laramie. Never again. The first one's DEF system caught fire in a snowstorm and burned to the ground along with the brand new $50k fifth wheel i was towing. Total loss. The second one had it's auto trans, rear end, ac compressor, sepentine belt pulleys and brackets, ECM, water pump, front and rear brake calipers, power steering pump, radiator, and fan clutch all fail in the first 90,000 miles. Towed off the freeway 6 times. 3 months in the shop, about half of it covered by warranty. Now it's at 130k, and the rear end is going out again. My max load is only 16,000lbs, and i'm GENTLE on the throttle. $21,000 in repairs so far...
Justin Modzz I think we just gave up on you. I go rock climbing and mudding with my friends all the time we use the dually to muddrun tho and since i dont have a bumper hitch on my dually i use the gooseneck hitch for the connecting to drag it out of the mud.
every one of you in this comment thread missed the point of this video. The tailgate was opened to ensure that it did not keep the ass end of the frame square and hinder flex.
Ford uses a C-channel frame compared to boxed. This has more give as you can see in the video, but is able to haul a lot of weight. Same reason semis use C-channel frames.
